Do You Give Him Help?

[BrizzleRed]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

It defies any logic.  

You could be forgiven for thinking they’re deliberately setting us up to fail.  That’s a really special level of incompetance.

[Superjack]

5 hours ago, SecretSam said:

He scored again yesterday, guess what he did...

 

I've got a degree in Economics, do you think they'd give me the job?

Do you think that they are wonderful overlords who never get anything wrong?

If not, no.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Is Hargreaves perhaps more driven than Lansdown?

I wonder if he e.g. would've pushed on with Ashton Vale is was it a dead end full stop?

Would he e.g. have made a change in March 2017 when Lee Johnson somehow survived, survived, survived?

Would he have gone for bigger losses when we had a lot of FFP headroom 2018-19 to 2020-21 especially.

It could have gone belly up too but do sometimes wonder how Hargrsves would run it differently in that counterfactual.

[Numero Uno]

9 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Picking up on something @headhunter said on the pod re Ward, Benny etc and at times the need for help, particularly when adapting to a new level.

It’s now accepted that in a lot of ways Liam is struggling. Badly. In such a circumstance the “third way” can be to bring in someone from outside in order to assist. If you look at our managerial team (including Tinnion) there is nobody who has managed at this level successfully, or played above League One consistently. In short, there’s nobody who really, really knows the game and how it works.

So, on the assumption the board don’t want rid of Liam, would this be an acceptable third way? And who would it be (please don’t say Nige) - and most importantly of all, because I have my doubts, would Liam accept it?

You've answered your own question. Whatever way you look at it, whoever you blame for the pickle we are in the fact that we have a Tecknical Director who is a failed League 1 Manager is the crux of the issue. If you replaced him with somebody QUALIFIED that's your help right there, no need to bring in further parties to complicate the situation and also humiliate the manager.

[Superjack]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 At the same time, Johnson wasn't sacked when he lost eight in a row in 2017. In fact, he had another three seasons.

Exactly. 

They ain't gonna sack him. An admission of error. And they don't do that. 

Plus, as much as people loved Cotterill for what he did, there was a significant percentage of the fanbase that took exception to his throwing the toys out of the pram or believed that he would have taken us down (I wasn't one of them, for reasons that are now becoming clear to most).

This is a different situation. A very large percentage of the fanbase was on board with NP, could see the job he had done and the progress that we were making, and what could be just around the corner. 

Sure, there are a few that didn't, and some of those will probably jump on this post, 

But the Lansdowns certainly won't sack Manning. They know that most of the fanbase is against what they have done, and will double down, regardless of the consequences.

[Sheltons Army]

11 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

It defies any logic.  

You could be forgiven for thinking they’re deliberately setting us up to fail.  That’s a really special level of arrogance

 

 

@TomSutton

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Superjack said:

Exactly. 

They ain't gonna sack him. An admission of error. And they don't do that. 

Plus, as much as people loved Cotterill for what he did, there was a significant percentage of the fanbase that took exception to his throwing the toys out of the pram or believed that he would have taken us down (I wasn't one of them, for reasons that are now becoming clear to most).

This is a different situation. A very large percentage of the fanbase was on board with NP, could see the job he had done and the progress that we were making, and what could be just around the corner. 

Sure, there are a few that didn't, and some of those will probably jump on this post, 

But the Lansdowns certainly won't sack Manning. They know that most of the fanbase is against what they have done, and will double down, regardless of the consequences.

Yup. He won't be sacked if he loses tomorrow. He will be sacked if we went down. It's unlikely - IMO - he'll be sacked even if we finished 21st, for the reasons you explain,

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, Superjack said:

This is a different situation. A very large percentage of the fanbase was on board with NP, could see the job he had done and the progress that we were making, and what could be just around the corner. 

It was a unique situation because so many KNEW the football was uninspiring, so many REALISED the opposition more often than not would dominate the ball, so many ACCEPTED we were a predominantly counter attacking side taking a lot of time to slowly transition into something more exciting and yet so many UNDERSTOOD that what they were watching was pragmatism in action and that as soon as you gave that bloke some money he would change it to something we could all really get on board with. I have never known a City fanbase as a whole showing so much patience and understanding and so willing to give someone plenty of time to improve it in my 48 years of supporting, that's for sure.

However, it came to pass that the hierarchy and too many of our impatient fanbase clearly KNEW BETTER, wanted instant gratification, thought it could all be ripped up and changed overnight, and now they've got their wish they're also getting their just desserts...............and have all gone missing. The laughable thing is, in all this, the best performances under the new manager have been COUNTER ATTACKING performances - how bastard ironic is that?!!!

[spudski]

29 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

It defies any logic.  

You could be forgiven for thinking they’re deliberately setting us up to fail.  That’s a really special level of incompetance.

Like you say...defies all logic. 

[Superjack]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It was a unique situation because so many KNEW the football was uninspiring, so many REALISED the opposition more often than not would dominate the ball, so many ACCEPTED we were a predominantly counter attacking side taking a lot of time to slowly transition into something more exciting and yet so many UNDERSTOOD that what they were watching was pragmatism in action and that as soon as you gave that bloke some money he would change it to something we could all really get on board with. I have never known a City fanbase as a whole showing so much patience and understanding and so willing to give someone plenty of time to improve it in my 48 years of supporting, that's for sure.

However, it came to pass that the hierarchy and too many of our impatient fanbase clearly KNEW BETTER, wanted instant gratification, thought it could all be ripped up and changed overnight, and now they've got their wish they're also getting their just desserts...............and have all gone missing. The laughable thing is, in all this, the best performances under the new manager have been COUNTER ATTACKING performances - how bastard ironic is that?!!!

[Superjack]

23 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It was a unique situation because so many KNEW the football was uninspiring, so many REALISED the opposition more often than not would dominate the ball, so many ACCEPTED we were a predominantly counter attacking side taking a lot of time to slowly transition into something more exciting and yet so many UNDERSTOOD that what they were watching was pragmatism in action and that as soon as you gave that bloke some money he would change it to something we could all really get on board with. I have never known a City fanbase as a whole showing so much patience and understanding and so willing to give someone plenty of time to improve it in my 48 years of supporting, that's for sure.

However, it came to pass that the hierarchy and too many of our impatient fanbase clearly KNEW BETTER, wanted instant gratification, thought it could all be ripped up and changed overnight, and now they've got their wish they're also getting their just desserts...............and have all gone missing. The laughable thing is, in all this, the best performances under the new manager have been COUNTER ATTACKING performances - how bastard ironic is that?!!!

If there is only one post that Nigel Pearson reads on here, I hope that it is this one.

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The laughable thing is, in all this, the best performances under the new manager have been COUNTER ATTACKING performances - how bastard ironic is that?!!!

Isn’t it just!

[BrizzleRed]

29 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It was a unique situation because so many KNEW the football was uninspiring, so many REALISED the opposition more often than not would dominate the ball, so many ACCEPTED we were a predominantly counter attacking side taking a lot of time to slowly transition into something more exciting and yet so many UNDERSTOOD that what they were watching was pragmatism in action and that as soon as you gave that bloke some money he would change it to something we could all really get on board with. I have never known a City fanbase as a whole showing so much patience and understanding and so willing to give someone plenty of time to improve it in my 48 years of supporting, that's for sure.

However, it came to pass that the hierarchy and too many of our impatient fanbase clearly KNEW BETTER, wanted instant gratification, thought it could all be ripped up and changed overnight, and now they've got their wish they're also getting their just desserts...............and have all gone missing. The laughable thing is, in all this, the best performances under the new manager have been COUNTER ATTACKING performances - how bastard ironic is that?!!!

Brilliant post

It really felt like we’d weathered the storm, turned the corner and with some reasonable backing for the manager, there were better times ahead.  We also seemed to have moved away from the amateurish ways of the past, with proven, vastly experienced and very able people in the key areas we needed.

What could possibly go wrong?  Step forward JL and BT, to prove how quickly and easily you can totally cock things up if you’re stupid and arrogant enough.

All that hope was snatched away with that crazy sacking of NP and his team and now we’ve only got these borefests to look forward to and little or no hope of improvement.  Even if Manning gets sacked, nothing will improve unless those other mugs running this club go with him.

[fgrsimon]

As much as I dislike him, I think I'd trust LJ more than LM in the current situation! The streaky bit meant that you'd think there was a chance we'd go on a winning run again at some point. The tombola would eventually spew out an effective line-up. LM hasn't actually got out of a downward spiral. At MK he didn't and was sacked, at Oxford they bumbled along with a few draws and eventually beat FGR. So far here we've, until the last 3 games, just bumbled along again.  He doesn't seem to know how to change anything, I cant see anything other than defeat tomorrow and following on from that, a repeat of Cardiff against Swansea and then the sack. Praying for a miracle tomorrow and I'm an atheist!

[DaveInSA]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That was me also.  Just last week I said “keep him”, but last week was last week, and I didn’t quite have a case.  But in the last 6-7 days it crystallised for me.

The Manning we currently have in charge gets a “sack” vote from me.

He would need to make some serious changes and then execute them incredibly quickly for me to revert.  

I wouldn’t say I’ve been unconvinced, just waiting to be convinced.  And I think 20 games is enough to have a clear view of Manning and Manning-ball.  I don’t need to wait for him to have his players, I’ve seen what he can do (not do) with the existing bunch, who are as honest a bunch of pros as I’ve seen at this level in a City shirt in a long, long time.

I believe it is him / his style of play (and coaching of that from evidence on the pitch) that is the problem.

If SL wants to chuck £20m at him in the summer, fine, but that’s not justifying Liam Manning is it?

I don’t feel great coming out with this, I’d rather he was doing well and we were worried some other club might nab him.

But I’m at the point I was with Lee Johnson (twice) where I’d realised he wasn’t influencing anything

Spooky similarities.

And I think City under Manning are influenced by our opponents not by him.

 

 

I remember that Levers post - made I laugh.

I sat in the Lansdown on Saturday - you see all the ills up there. In the first half, it was a bit turgid, but we had a structure. It was easy to defend against, because we move the ball so slowly. When we moved it quick, there was almost a couple of “ins”, but the final execution was poor.

Second half, especially after Cardiffs goal, I literally had no idea what we were trying to do. Our passing was dismal. Behind or directly to a player. I seem to remember growing up, that placing a pass where the player is running to was the best pass. Oh. Of course, that assumed that our players were running. At least in some coherent way, toward the Cardiff goal.

It was bad as I’ve ever seen. Manning is done. But of course, he won’t be fired. He’ll get £15m in the summer. And we’ll be in a relegation scrap by early December. Fired in January when it’s all too late.

Unless…Steve decides he’s seen enough and takes some action.