Ipswich view

[Floatn Over]

32 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I said at the time of Mannings appointment that in my living memory I do not recall a manager inheriting such a decent squad. 

He inherited a squad that was more than capable of getting top 10. He was expected to make this squad out perform its ability. 

We had the players in place.

We had a good hard working culture in place. 

It's not like he had to come in and fix lots of problems like is usual when a managerial change is made. 

He just had to improve on what we had here already. Just a few minor tweaks. Like Edwards at Luton. 

He's not even kept us bumbling along. We are now 13 points off the play offs with 10 games to go. We finished last season 10 points off. 

There can be no other conclusion other than in that context he has failed massively here. 

No one can sit here and put forward a convincing arguement of any material improvements under him, after almost half a season.

Get rid of Pearson, fine. But this has been a massive lost opportunity not only for us but also for Manning. 

There is no doubt in my mind that either under Pearson or another manager we could have done better than we have done. 

 

Apart from the word “fine” in the penultimate paragraph a very good post.

The spade work was done by Nige.

[italian dave]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Come on Dave, you're trying to frame it as if my opinion on this is outrageous it appears. I'm very much not alone in thinking that we need go make a managerial change. 

I'm not sure what quality it brings to the debate talking about Jurgan Klopp. 

You're trying to frame it as if I think 'anyone but Manning' 

When he goes I won't be sat here saying "yea he'll do cos he isn't Manning" like people are over Manning/Pearson. I'll be sat here demanding the best appointment for Bristol City and I'll be similarly pissed off if we made another Manning type appointment. 

My opinion is backed by the fact Manning has got 1.10 ppg over almost half a season with a squad that should be doing much better than that. 

We don't need Jurgan Klopp to improve us from 1.10 ppg. Most competent Managers thst we could attract would out perform that. 

I'm at a complete loss to understand how you can say that I'm trying to frame your opinion as outrageous WSM. 

I've quite explicitly said that it's a legitimate view. Twice. 

I've very deliberately set out to simply say that there are different views on this; I've very deliberately stepped back from expressing my own view on it because I'm not trying to argue that one is right and one is wrong. I'm just suggesting that, depending which view you take will colour your view on the issue of finding a replacement.

All you keep doing is repeating your view. Although you occasionally say the words "other people are entitled to their view" you consistently fail to acknowledge the consequences of that when they do hold a different view.

Your last sentence sums it up. Your view is that Manning isn't a competent manager. Therefore it follows that most competent managers would be a better alternative. Someone who has a different view, that they haven't yet judged Manning incompetent, will inevitably have a different view on the likelihood of finding a better replacement. 

And, just to really really clear, I am NOT making a judgement on whether either view is right, wrong, outrageous or otherwise. I'm just making the point that those two different views on Manning's competence will lead to different conclusions about what happens next. 

[SkuseMe]

Ipswich fan here.

The Ashton view really isn't common among Town fans, perhaps they were just trying to bond with you in extending that olive branch? When scanning the forum pre-match I also read a line from Fevs that we were lapping up Ashton's claims about our spending being net zero, which also isn't honestly true. The majority won't have heard or engaged with his comments at all, of course, beyond one-line remarks maybe if mentioned on matchday, but those who do engage are mostly very aware that he would have utilised "political" figures (ones which bear little resemblance to the reality of our increased expenditure since the new ownership arrived). 

Most Ipswich fans are delighted with everyone employed by the club right now, understandably. The months before Ashton arrived were our nadir, seriously: relegation to the third division for the first time since our infancy in the 50s, followed by not even seriously challenging for promotion at that level. Off the field it couldn't have been more amateurish, too. Quite unbelievable the cesspit that had been allowed to develop. I won't bore with what's happened since, only to say that the pace of progress on and off the pitch has been remarkable. He receives much praise for it all, not least for the crucial hiring of McKenna.

We are, of course, equally aware of his Brentish charms and recognise he would have made a very good estate agent. My own instinct is Lansdown was comfortable with the risks your club took under Ashton's stewardship, rather than blindsided by them, but we seemingly have more oversight here in the event of the alternative. I fully expect us to be close to FFP, and subsequently unsustainable without ownership investment, like most of the Championship, but importantly not in breach. All claims to the contrary are without guiding evidence.

On Manning, it would surprise me if half the fanbase hold an opinion. Those who have followed his career regard him in a positive light though, for sure. He's consistently given us a hard game, not least midweek, and he had Dons and Oxford playing good, effective football for decent periods. You were probably the best-drilled side to come to PR this season and brought plenty of shothousery too, which impressed us all the more because it isn't synonymous with Manning sides. It was a classic away performance until our depth ultimately overwhelmed you, which I suggested may happen in the match thread (we've done it to almost everyone). You totally nullified us for 60 minutes, working very hard in the process.

However, if it doesn't work out here his stock will naturally fall. Much too early for us to have formed a watertight opinion on the guy. Hope he brings better results your way soon. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

11 minutes ago, SkuseMe said:

Ipswich fan here.

The Ashton view really isn't common among Town fans, perhaps they were just trying to bond with you in extending that olive branch? When scanning the forum pre-match I also read a line from Fevs that we were lapping up Ashton's claims about our spending being net zero, which also isn't honestly true. The majority won't have heard or engaged with his comments at all, of course, beyond one-line remarks maybe if mentioned on matchday, but those who do engage are mostly very aware that he would have utilised "political" figures (ones which bear little resemblance to the reality of our increased expenditure since the new ownership arrived). 

Most Ipswich fans are delighted with everyone employed by the club right now, understandably. The months before Ashton arrived were our nadir, seriously: relegation to the third division for the first time since our infancy in the 50s, followed by not even seriously challenging for promotion at that level. Off the field it couldn't have been more amateurish, too. Quite unbelievable the cesspit that had been allowed to develop. I won't bore with what's happened since, only to say that the pace of progress on and off the pitch has been remarkable. He receives much praise for it all, not least for the crucial hiring of McKenna.

We are, of course, equally aware of his Brentish charms and recognise he would have made a very good estate agent. My own instinct is Lansdown was comfortable with the risks your club took under Ashton's stewardship, rather than blindsided by them, but we seemingly have more oversight here in the event of the alternative. I fully expect us to be close to FFP, and subsequently unsustainable without ownership investment, like most of the Championship, but importantly not in breach. All claims to the contrary are without guiding evidence.

On Manning, it would surprise me if half the fanbase hold an opinion. Those who have followed his career regard him in a positive light though, for sure. He's consistently given us a hard game, not least midweek, and he had Dons and Oxford playing good, effective football for decent periods. You were probably the best-drilled side to come to PR this season and brought plenty of shothousery too, which impressed us all the more because it isn't synonymous with Manning sides. It was a classic away performance until our depth ultimately overwhelmed you, which I suggested may happen in the match thread (we've done it to almost everyone). You totally nullified us for 60 minutes, working very hard in the process.

However, if it doesn't work out here his stock will naturally fall. Much too early for us to have formed a watertight opinion on the guy. Hope he brings better results your way soon. 

Hiring McKenna was definitely Mark Ashton? 

[SkuseMe]

18 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Hiring McKenna was definitely Mark Ashton? 

The article below could make for a nauseating read, everyone's been warned, but it feels safe to conclude he was the driving force behind McKenna's appointment. Ashton gave interviews early doors in which he spoke of his own careful research and his headhunting him, effectively, when our direction of travel wasn't so clear, which lends credence to the narrative. I can't say if Mark's homework was irresistible here, if he showed incredible vision or utterly fluked it, but the outcome has been brilliant for us. 

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/23190988.ipswich-town-mark-ashton-landed-manager-kieran-mckenna/

[1960maaan]

23 minutes ago, SkuseMe said:

Ashton gave interviews early doors in which he spoke of his own careful research and his headhunting him, effectively, when our direction of travel wasn't so clear, which lends credence to the narrative. I can't say if Mark's homework was irresistible here, if he showed incredible vision or utterly fluked it, but the outcome has been brilliant for us. 

How did he explain the appointment and sacking of Cook ?

I thought he would be a good fit TBH , but as he didn't work out did  EGOman say "I got it wrong" or "it wasn't my fault" ?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, SkuseMe said:

but we seemingly have more oversight here in the event of the alternative. I fully expect us to be close to FFP, and subsequently unsustainable without ownership investment, like most of the Championship, but importantly not in breach. All claims to the contrary are without guiding evidence.

Yes, your revenues are gonna bloody excellent and that should in some way cover off spend.  Filling the ground every week, plus commercial will likely see no FFP impact.  I think you’ve been generally smart since the first summer (demolition man - I’m still not sure who really deserved that title!), you’ve been very sensible in the market (unlike his time here)

1 hour ago, SkuseMe said:

When scanning the forum pre-match I also read a line from Fevs that we were lapping up Ashton's claims about our spending being net zero, which also isn't honestly true. The majority won't have heard or engaged with his comments at all, of course, beyond one-line remarks maybe if mentioned on matchday, but those who do engage are mostly very aware that he would have utilised "political" figures (ones which bear little resemblance to the reality of our increased expenditure since the new ownership arrived).

Those fans who posted about it on TWTD are the ones I’m referring to.  The vast majority of your fans aren’t interested, just like OTIB not being all fans.  But some of your learned fans put them right too.

+++++

good post btw

Edited March 7 by Davefevs

[SkuseMe]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Those fans who posted about it on TWTD are the ones I’m referring to.  The vast majority of your fans aren’t interested, just like OTIB not being all fans.  But some of your learned fans put them right too.

+++++

good post btw

Fair do's, I will plonk myself in the learned bracket then.  

Cook arrived before Ashton and the takeover, in answer to 1960Maaan's question. We feared his arrival was indication that the deal was off at the time, but happily Evans sold 5 weeks later. 

Cook, Ashton and co. scrabbled around in the summer to recruit and let go of as many players as possible, squad was so broken, dressing-room culture shocking. I'd like to credit Cook for several of our best acquisitions that summer (Morsy and Chaplin wouldn't have dropped down if not for Cook, IMO) but regrettably he couldn't piece it all together, began calling out players in increasingly emotional post-match interviews. Thought the new operation did right by him honestly, as much as Cook felt he warranted more time and believed his position was always in jeopardy. 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, SkuseMe said:

Fair do's, I will plonk myself in the learned bracket then.  

Cook arrived before Ashton and the takeover, in answer to 1960Maaan's question. We feared his arrival was indication that the deal was off at the time, but happily Evans sold 5 weeks later. 

Cook, Ashton and co. scrabbled around in the summer to recruit and let go of as many players as possible, squad was so broken, dressing-room culture shocking. I'd like to credit Cook for several of our best acquisitions that summer (Morsy and Chaplin wouldn't have dropped down if not for Cook, IMO) but regrettably he couldn't piece it all together, began calling out players in increasingly emotional post-match interviews. Thought the new operation did right by him honestly, as much as Cook felt he warranted more time and believed his position was always in jeopardy. 

Yeah, some of you fans tried to make it believable with quoting Transfermarkt values / totals, but forgot the notorious “?” against some players, and also were “ignorant” (harsh word) about amortisation and book value left on sold players.

Got to say I loved the Mark Steed interview(s) summer 2022.  I wouldn’t want to upset him!

[Henry]

30 minutes ago, SkuseMe said:

Fair do's, I will plonk myself in the learned bracket then.  

Cook arrived before Ashton and the takeover, in answer to 1960Maaan's question. We feared his arrival was indication that the deal was off at the time, but happily Evans sold 5 weeks later. 

Cook, Ashton and co. scrabbled around in the summer to recruit and let go of as many players as possible, squad was so broken, dressing-room culture shocking. I'd like to credit Cook for several of our best acquisitions that summer (Morsy and Chaplin wouldn't have dropped down if not for Cook, IMO) but regrettably he couldn't piece it all together, began calling out players in increasingly emotional post-match interviews. Thought the new operation did right by him honestly, as much as Cook felt he warranted more time and believed his position was always in jeopardy. 

Wasn’t there some rumours that Cook had some personal issues? That being the reason why he quickly dropped down the leagues after the Ipswich job.

[SkuseMe]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

Wasn’t there some rumours that Cook had some personal issues? That being the reason why he quickly dropped down the leagues after the Ipswich job.

Yes Henry, his father passed away during his time with us and the pressure was (comparatively) enormous without the personal difficulties. 

And I don't recall the interview well Dave but remember Steed being a character. A steep FFP learning curve has been required on our forum, given we haven't had money for most of this era and then moved from one set of rules to another, but I believe the knowledge expressed on TWTD is now decent for a footy space aha. I'm not sure a challenger to OTIB's monster thread exists anywhere on the internet tbf.

[italian dave]

@SkuseMe Thanks for the post: I won’t ‘quote’ the whole thing again!

On that view of Ashton among Ipswich fans: I’m sure you’re right and to be fair the guys we met said just that. That theirs wasn’t a view many others would share.

As for the game, you seem to have seen it much as they did. And I have to say that even as a fan of the losing side I thought it was a great game to watch: thoroughly enjoyed it.

I’d say good luck for the rest of the season: but - selfishly - I’d much prefer a trip to Ipswich again next season than another one to Leeds or Leicester!!