Hxj Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Oh this is so much fun! So LCFC win their initial hearing v EFL on a timing issue in respect of 2023/24, the EFL have to wait until 31 March to take the FFP offence, roll on April Fools Day! So the EPL then jump in with two offences - a breach of FFP for 2022/23 and failure to submit audited accounts - which are entirely separate to the EFL offence. So LCFC now potentially face three different hearings: 1. An EPL FFP failure for 2022/23 2. A strict liability offence for failure to submit audited accounts by the deadline - either they were or were not submitted 3. A projected EPL FFP failure for 2023/24 based on the accounts submitted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1st March is irrelevant then here? I was under the impression that the bit Leicester won on was Future Financial Info, not the actual P&S submission. I know the timing of 'T' was key but I didn't see anything in thst case which I reread the other day which referred to Rules 2, 2.1 or 2.10 and 2.11. It was Rules 2.2 to 2.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I was under the impression that the bit Leicester won on was Future Financial Info, not the actual P&S submission. I didn't want to get too semantic. The Future Financial Information is all part of the FFP regulations, so it all depends upon how you want to carve things up. The CFRU lost simply because they tried to sanction LCFC for the January 2024 Transfer Window, which was before the dead line that LCFC had for the submission of the relevant data, or at least that is my understanding of the position. Nothing in the decision precluded the CFRU from taking action after 31 March 2024. But now, in addition, the EPL have jumped in, oh joy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Leicester will get a 4 point deduction next season, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespa Red Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Interesting to compare Leicester City's approach to FFP as opposed to ours. Reading through the BBC's article on the subject, Leicester have (knowingly?) overspent but have lawyered up at the first whiff of points deduction in a bullish approach to get either/or/and the Premier League/EFL to back down. We sell our best players to ensure that we stay (just) the right side of FFP. And the public approach that we take seems very transparent however unpopular it might be. Maybe, just maybe that's why a football regulator is necessary? I'm not not sure that I agree that it is but it's certainly an argument for levelling up (urgh) the playing field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, Monkeh said: Leicester will get a 4 point deduction next season, More in all honesty. They appear not to have been cooperative, they stand accused of not submitting Accounts and they may have breached in successive seasons across successive Leagues. If they win Promotion in breach that needs making an example of. Edited March 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Vespa Red said: Interesting to compare Leicester City's approach to FFP as opposed to ours. Reading through the BBC's article on the subject, Leicester have (knowingly?) overspent but have lawyered up at the first whiff of points deduction in a bullish approach to get either/or/and the Premier League/EFL to back down. We sell our best players to ensure that we stay (just) the right side of FFP. And the public approach that we take seems very transparent however unpopular it might be. Maybe, just maybe that's why a football regulator is necessary? I'm not not sure that I agree that it is but it's certainly an argument for levelling up (urgh) the playing field. The League(s) won't back down, this is more about delaying IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vespa Red said: Interesting to compare Leicester City's approach to FFP as opposed to ours. Reading through the BBC's article on the subject, Leicester have (knowingly?) overspent but have lawyered up at the first whiff of points deduction in a bullish approach to get either/or/and the Premier League/EFL to back down. We sell our best players to ensure that we stay (just) the right side of FFP. And the public approach that we take seems very transparent however unpopular it might be. Maybe, just maybe that's why a football regulator is necessary? I'm not not sure that I agree that it is but it's certainly an argument for levelling up (urgh) the playing field. Every club that overspends does it knowingly. No club "accidentally" spends £30m more than they are supposed to. As to the regulator - it is not expected to directly deal with P&S/FFP breaches. Breaking those rules might require a club to notify the regulator of a change in circumstances, and it might require a revision of the clubs business plan, a serious breach could even lead to the regulator taking action against the directors for failing the new competency test. But it would still be the PL/EFL actually charging, investigating, and punishing clubs for the FFP breach itself. Edited March 22 by ExiledAjax 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbytheriver Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 What happens if Leicester fail to go up this season? Looking at the table it is a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 16 minutes ago, johnbytheriver said: What happens if Leicester fail to go up this season? Looking at the table it is a possibility. Well then the fun might really start. EFL is much more real time than PL. (Talking of which John Percy says EFL could look to pursue their case this year). However failing that,Leicester would... *Be on a target after adjusted to £61m to next season. *Docked points if they fail this and I assume the 2022-23 apparent fail wouldn't just be forgotten or paused. *Business Plan would be a must. Probably have to claw back position x to Position Y. That in itself would be a separate offrnfr to the 3 Year Rule. Say for arguments sake, they raised £45-50m in Transfer Profit this year ie Profit on Disposal and post a P&S Loss of £20m. Next year Parachute Payments drop £10m, to claw back to parity they would need to find £50-60m in improvement, less the savings on wages and Amortisation of those who left. In fact maybe more! Business Plan tends to mean no Transfer Fees, no Loan Fees, Signing on Fees limited, Wages limited. EFL have to approve new additions. Embargo would be the starting point post 30th June probably. That can affect renewals too, Registration. Edited March 22 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Oh yes. People may recall Arlo White. He was a journo on 5Live not that long ago. He said this approaching Janaury 2024. Appears to be a Leicester fan, not much Professional Journalist critical analysis in evidence is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan11 Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I do agree with the sentiment. It does say that the EFL are also investigating Leicester pertaining to this season. I should also add that their Statement a few weeks ago said something like this.. That was from their Statement on 6th March. EFL also released a Statement on the same day, again two relevant parts. Note the "will be assessed along with the submissions of all other Clubs in accordance with the League's established processes". That makes me think that the Football League may come back and try again this season. https://efl.com/news/2024/march/06/efl-statement--leicester-city/ https://www.lcfc.com/news/3923850/lcfc-statement---6-march-2024 Their Statement today was none too happy! League rules expressly rule out Court action so Arbitration perhaps in the first instance. Willing and eager to discuss yet don't submit Accounts?? https://www.lcfc.com/news/3938901/lcfc-statement--21-march-2024 "Proper Resolution of potential charges by the right bodied at the right time". I take that to mean that they don't get believe that they can be found in breach yet, right time next reason and right bodies who knows. Appreciate that I have skin in the game being an Ipswich fan, but it'll be a total joke if they get away without a deduction this season. And they say cheats never prosper...! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dan11 said: Appreciate that I have skin in the game being an Ipswich fan, but it'll be a total joke if they get away without a deduction this season. And they say cheats never prosper...! I am wondering about the CFRU/CFRP. Given the rules can trigger a deemed breach based on the P&S Calculation- see P&S Rules 2, 2.1, 2.10 and in particular 2.10.3... Edited March 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: EFL think they are set to breach for this year too. I wonder if any kind of In-Season charge could occur there. Same as when they went up then - cant do anything because they'll no longer be in this league. This is where the Premier League / Championship divide becomes a joke. As others have said, presumably Leicester will only get punished if/when they go up - and they'll already get the rewards for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, MarcusX said: Same as when they went up then - cant do anything because they'll no longer be in this league. This is where the Premier League / Championship divide becomes a joke. As others have said, presumably Leicester will only get punished if/when they go up - and they'll already get the rewards for that The Rules have changed significantly however, see the bits above about a Forecast Breach in the P&S Calculation being grounds for a referral to the CFRP. Even it they went up such while Proceedings are ongoing, the Rule changes are such that a double punishment could be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The Rules have changed significantly however, see the bits above about a Forecast Breach in the P&S Calculation being grounds for a referral to the CFRP. Even it they went up such while Proceedings are ongoing, the Rule changes are such that a double punishment could be possible. Ah ok thanks, I struggle to understand it all tbh! I find your postings on some of it useful though Just bugs me with Leicester that they got away with it in 2014 when they won promotion, then had their "fairytale" with little punishment. Think they ended up settling with the EFL for about 3 million because they didn't come back down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Ah ok thanks, I struggle to understand it all tbh! I find your postings on some of it useful though Just bugs me with Leicester that they got away with it in 2014 when they won promotion, then had their "fairytale" with little punishment. Think they ended up settling with the EFL for about 3 million because they didn't come back down Suspect the Football League will push for something this year. They can't not really. Plus they will remember 2014... Gut feeling is that it is too late for this year overall sadly. Plus if we recall 2002-03 they went up after going into Administration, didn't pay for the KP iirc. Football Administration Regs very lax 20 years ago, no Points Deductions. As well as Lower League, Derby and Ipswich also went in- but neither of them materially benefited from this on the pitch. May have been others too. There were no Points Deductions etc for it until a few years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Well I heard a little whisper that the Leicester board has been less than fully transparent with the ownership and there's more than a little discontent at the King Power right now. Issues off the pitch and on the pitch between players and coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 35 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Well I heard a little whisper that the Leicester board has been less than fully transparent with the ownership and there's more than a little discontent at the King Power right now. Issues off the pitch and on the pitch between players and coaches. Hence their fall off in form of recent weeks ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 50 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Well I heard a little whisper that the Leicester board has been less than fully transparent with the ownership and there's more than a little discontent at the King Power right now. Issues off the pitch and on the pitch between players and coaches. A rare glimmer for us next Friday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Bit that Leicester are going to seek to invoke FA Rule K but I honesty dunno how it applies with say the EFL. If the CFRU referred a P&S overspend (Clubs own forecast) for this year to the CFRP, how woukr Rule K impact upon this for example? PL may have a different relationship to Rule K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 28 minutes ago, slartibartfast said: Hence their fall off in form of recent weeks ? Possibly. 14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: A rare glimmer for us next Friday? And possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) Leicester are displeased to say the least.. both Leagues coming at them simultaneously what fun! https://www.lcfc.com/news/3939567/lcfc-statement--22-march-2024?lang=en Could mean a this season referral to the CFRP this by the CFRU. Edited March 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Long term could be a real problem when the transfer window opens . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 14 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: Long term could be a real problem when the transfer window opens . Hopefully this early move means the PL would just carry on the Embargo if Leicester still in breach post June 30th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) If Rule 2.10.3 follows on from Rule 2.10.1 then they should be referred this season for breaching the P&S Calculation Upper Loss limit. Edited March 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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