Plymouth Argyle away match thread

[The Swan and Cemetery]

25 minutes ago, Jimbo76 said:

It's worth revisiting some of the 'Manning Out' posts to see how it lost perspective, at least from some.

Maybe a vocal minority.

As I say, just fun watching the u turns from those that were so anti Manning. Or at least I think it will be.

U turns would imply people now think LM is definitively is the right person for the job, having previously been desperate for him to go. Not sure there are many signs of that change in view, but people can recognise performances for what they are, good and bad. If @W-S-M Seagull comes on demanding a 10 year contract for LM, fair enough. Overall I remain very unconvinced, but last two games have been solid/strong performances, so if that progress continues, all good. Never quite reached wanting him out, equally a long way from expecting great things next season - with a fair wind I’ll be wrong. 

[pillred]

8 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

You can enjoy the wins but still question the overall ability of the manager, those 2 opinions can still be valid. One swallow  does not make the summer and all that.

The last 2 results have bought him time, the jury is very much still out for me. The football is slightly better and a bit more entertaining. We beat Leicester but on another day they could have been out of sight in the first half if Vardy had brought his finishing boots with him.

Most posters and even the negative ones have watched enough football to appreciate and acknowledge if there is an improvement, and most will enjoy being wrong if that’s the case, as ultimately City will be more successful and ultimately more entertaining. If seeing that gives you kicks then good for you. 

 

Still not buying this they could have been out of sight in the first half, of course, we never had any shots saved or blatant penalties turned down.

[slartibartfast]

3 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

Both teams in green of some sort. Plus our passing suggests the players can’t see one another clearly. And this yellow kit is utter shite

I am visually impaired and colour blind and I have absolutely no problem in telling them apart .

[bexhill reds]

Just now, pillred said:

Still not buying this they could have been out of sight in the first half, of course, we never had any shots saved or blatant penalties turned down.

Got my halves confused, was corrected on another post. 

[!james]

 

 

 

[Northern Red]

2 minutes ago, !james said:

 

 

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

15 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

One swallow  does not make the summer

It’d make mine. 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

2 minutes ago, !james said:

Firefighter, do they mean Warnock, just the man to get them out of trouble. or at least have a good go and he lives locally.

 

 

 

[AppyDAZE]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

What a manual manipulator.

[bexhill reds]

1 minute ago, slartibartfast said:

I am visually impaired and colour blind and I have absolutely no problem in telling them apart .

I was more referencing players getting a quick head up and not being able immediately pick out a player especially on a longer pass. I’d also made reference to some of the research done on the psychology and visual benefits of different colour shirts rather than something to make a few quid in the club shop with. To my mind White would have been a better away shirt for today.

[bexhill reds]

3 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

It’d make mine. 

Whatever could you mean…… 

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

U turns would imply people now think LM is definitively is the right person for the job, having previously been desperate for him to go. Not sure there are many signs of that change in view, but people can recognise performances for what they are, good and bad. If @W-S-M Seagull comes on demanding a 10 year contract for LM, fair enough. Overall I remain very unconvinced, but last two games have been solid/strong performances, so if that progress continues, all good. Never quite reached wanting him out, equally a long way from expecting great things next season - with a fair wind I’ll be wrong. 

Exactly that. People who have been critical of Manning are calling out two much improved performances. Not just improved, chalk and cheese to what preceded them. Don’t see that as a problem tbf. If that trend continues into the early part of next season then there will be full U turns. For me he needed these performances to even make it to next season and that’s a given now.

Speaking for myself there is one person in a Senior position in our club I wouldn’t U turn my view on and it definitely isn’t Liam.

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

That`s who their fans want and I reckon he will be appointed.

Thank God it wasn`t before today`s game!

[slartibartfast]

4 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

I was more referencing players getting a quick head up and not being able immediately pick out a player especially on a longer pass. I’d also made reference to some of the research done on the psychology and visual benefits of different colour shirts rather than something to make a few quid in the club shop with. To my mind White would have been a better away shirt for today.

I would always go with white. I used to hate it when City were in all red and the other team were in, say, all blue...........nightmare for me !

[TV Tom]

24 minutes ago, Jimbo76 said:

As I say, I wasn't sure which way it was going to go with him. Just felt a bit uncomfortable with the timing and nature of the backlash.

He might not be the answer but I get the impression that he has a work ethic, ambition and the players are playing for him and believing in him. Can't ask much more than that.

If he succeeds, I think most of us think it will be despite those above him, not because of them.

I think he's shown a lot in the last two games of what people were berating him for in terms of tactics, game management and subs.

I'm not being all knowing after the event. I think most of his critics, you included, gave a rationale for the criticism.

Some weren't quite so measured.

Agree 100%, found it really strange how quickly so many (particularly who I would regard as reasonable posters) were on his back, personally I’ve enjoyed more games in the last three months than I have in the last three years

[mozo]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly that. People who have been critical of Manning are calling out two much improved performances. Not just improved, chalk and cheese to what preceded them. Don’t see that as a problem tbf. If that trend continues into the early part of next season then there will be full U turns. For me he needed these performances to even make it to next season and that’s a given now.

Speaking for myself there is one person in a Senior position in our club I wouldn’t U turn my view on and it definitely isn’t Liam.

The issue I have with your framing of it is that it sort of implies that everything pre Leicester was rubbish, when it clearly wasn't. We all know that he won three in a row early doors, he has the FA Cup games, the big performance that shall be not mentioned, plus games like Coventry and Ipswich that were far better performances that the 1 pt yielded shows.

If we beat Sunderland Manning will be on nearly 40% win ratio for City. 

So I'm not saying he's had an amazing start to his City career, but you'd think from some rhetoric that before Easter came he was a shocker. Also not true.

We had a bad patch. It wasn't enjoyable, and clearly confidence sapped from the players. That's football.

Edited April 1 by mozo

[chinapig]

53 minutes ago, Jimbo76 said:

I am however enjoying the subtle first efforts at U turns that are now cropping up.

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" (attributed to J M Keynes)

Changing your mind when evidence justifies it is a strength not a weakness, despite what politicians claim. I try to form opinions based on (sufficient) evidence rather than take a fixed position and stick to it.

I wouldn't say there is sufficient evidence in Manning's favour over his tenure so far and pleased though I am with successive wins I'll wait for more evidence I think.

Which seems reasonable to me.

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, Ron W said:

Ah I didn't put the 'now we're safe' caveat the moment we hit 52 points by accident now Dave... 

we were safe on Friday imho

[marmite]

I was critical of Manning but it was more his boring style of play rather than his points per game. Many on here said they wouldn't watch Neil Warnock if he was manager because of his style of play, even if he got us promoted. I buy my season ticket to be entertained and that wasn't happening under Manning. The last couple of games have been better but it's still early days for me. The improvement needs to be consistent and then I'll happily admit that maybe he was searching for a system with these players. He may have found out what works well but he needs consistency. 

 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

The issue I have with your framing of it is that it sort of implies that everything pre Leicester was rubbish, when it clearly wasn't. We all know that he won three in a row early doors, he has the FA Cup games, the big performance that shall be not mentioned, plus games like Coventry and Ipswich that were far better performances that the 1 pt yielded shows.

If we beat Sunderland Manning will be on nearly 40% win ratio for City. 

So I'm not saying he's had an amazing start to his City career, but you'd think from some rhetoric that before Easter came he was a shocker. Also not true.

We had a bad patch. It wasn't enjoyable, and clearly confidence sapped from the players. That's football.

He did ok up to and including Boxing Day then the wheels came off in terms of our league form which is all I care about really. It was poor bar six to seven halves of football (out of 28) for three months in the league. Even after a very impressive Easter he’s still on a 44% Defeat Ratio (you brought stats into it!!) and that is unimpressive in anyones book.

If and when Liam shows this isn’t a false dawn (and we don’t go on another post Southampton run) many people will revise their views and that is fair enough imo. I can only think of one obvious poster who has not praised anything about the last two games. One.

[ralphindevon]

A lovely day out in Devon.

Great to see us beat a poor team, Plymouth didn’t look anywhere near the goal threat they looked at Ashton Gate. Even though they lost that 4-1 they came very close a number of times that night. Today they never looked like scoring. Hope they stay up though. 

[mozo]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He did ok up to and including Boxing Day then the wheels came off in terms of our league form which is all I care about really. It was poor bar six to seven halves of football (out of 28) for three months in the league. Even after a very impressive Easter he’s still on a 44% Defeat Ratio (you brought stats into it!!) and that is unimpressive in anyones book.

If and when Liam shows this isn’t a false dawn (and we don’t go on another post Southampton run) many people will revise their views and that is fair enough imo. I can only think of one obvious poster who has not praised anything about the last two games. One.

I think of a lot of posters that decisively called Manning out of his depth and frequently mocked him*, but that's all part and parcel of this forum. Was the same for Nige, LJ etc etc.

Theres been a lot of emotion this season. I think everyone just needs to summer break to reset their brains!

 

*prior to Leicester 

Edited April 1 by mozo

[McNasty Filth]

3 hours ago, Jimbo76 said:

Need to sub Conway. Don't mind trying anyone else up front. Twine? Cornick?

Something not right with Conway. Either confidence or unsettled at the club but not been at it for a while.

Said this to a mate at the ground on Saturday. He looked as though he was playing on a different wavelength to the rest of the team then, caught on his heels and way to slow to react to what were good balls into space down the line.

Not sure what it is tbh, but at a guess I'd say the guy defo know he's out the door, maybe even knows the club with both sides having agreed a prelim fee already.

[REDOXO]

46 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

I am visually impaired and colour blind and I have absolutely no problem in telling them apart .

Colour blindness probably helps. 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, mozo said:

The issue I have with your framing of it is that it sort of implies that everything pre Leicester was rubbish, when it clearly wasn't. We all know that he won three in a row early doors, he has the FA Cup games, the big performance that shall be not mentioned, plus games like Coventry and Ipswich that were far better performances that the 1 pt yielded shows.

If we beat Sunderland Manning will be on nearly 40% win ratio for City. 

So I'm not saying he's had an amazing start to his City career, but you'd think from some rhetoric that before Easter came he was a shocker. Also not true.

We had a bad patch. It wasn't enjoyable, and clearly confidence sapped from the players. That's football.

I’ve always said I don’t think he’s been awful (just not good enough), but the trend was very worrying…and I think he’s struggled at this level, and saw little to give me encouragement he’d ride out that downward trend, ie it would continue.

That was after Cardiff.

We've played 5 games since.  The first 3 (Ipswich, Swansea and West Brom) gave zero indication that we’d play with the intent of Good Friday.  I wasn’t very impressed with Ipswich, I think leading twice blurred the game.  Swansea, the final 25minutes blurred a horrible performance.  West Brom not as bad but not great.

So, I’ve now got one game (Leicester) and 2/3ds of Plymouth to add into the mix of 20+ games.  Some good, too many not so good imho

If I see consistency (of intent) going forward then some of those 20+ games will move into the “archives” and be less relevant.

Others will have very different ways of getting to their viewpoint. That is absolutely fine.  I’m just expressing mine.  Some people think I want to be right.  Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for LM to bring success to Bristol City.  The only manager I’ve ever been against appointing was Pulis.  Up the reds!

 

[Redandproud]

6 minutes ago, McNasty Filth said:

Said this to a mate at the ground on Saturday. He looked as though he was playing on a different wavelength to the rest of the team then, caught on his heels and way to slow to react to what were good balls into space down the line.

Not sure what it is tbh, but at a guess I'd say the guy defo know he's out the door, maybe even knows the club with both sides having agreed a prelim fee already.

I've always said, if they don't want to wear the shirt,   don't expect to get picked to play, 

[bexhill reds]

12 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Agree 100%, found it really strange how quickly so many (particularly who I would regard as reasonable posters) were on his back, personally I’ve enjoyed more games in the last three months than I have in the last three years

I don’t think that people were immediately on his back. He clearly was not helped by the background of his appointment nor some of the rhetoric that came from the club when he was appointed. Arguably that’s not a fair element to judge him by, but football is passionate and passion does not always bring about rational and fair minded thought.

I think some of the performances and the results that have gone with them have not helped. He’d managed to conjure some dreadful stuff on the pitch, and then followed that up with poor post match interviews where he fell back to his mantra, emotions, behaviours, blah blah. 

Perhaps he is turning it around, although I don’t think he’s done enough to be in credit yet. He has averted some pressure and given himself more time and probably the opportunity to bring in players as all managers want to do. That’s ultimately what he’ll be judged on

[redkev]

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

You can enjoy the wins but still question the overall ability of the manager, those 2 opinions can still be valid. One swallow  does not make the summer and all that.

The last 2 results have bought him time, the jury is very much still out for me. The football is slightly better and a bit more entertaining. We beat Leicester but on another day they could have been out of sight in the first half if Vardy had brought his finishing boots with him.

Most posters and even the negative ones have watched enough football to appreciate and acknowledge if there is an improvement, and most will enjoy being wrong if that’s the case, as ultimately City will be more successful and ultimately more entertaining. If seeing that gives you kicks then good for you. 

 

I agree with the majority of what you say but I don’t buy into this if Leicester had brought there shooting boots blah blah city had just as many chances as they did given in my opinion there was deffo 2 poss 3 pens we should could of had 

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve always said I don’t think he’s been awful (just not good enough), but the trend was very worrying…and I think he’s struggled at this level, and saw little to give me encouragement he’d ride out that downward trend, ie it would continue.

That was after Cardiff.

We've played 5 games since.  The first 3 (Ipswich, Swansea and West Brom) gave zero indication that we’d play with the intent of Good Friday.  I wasn’t very impressed with Ipswich, I think leading twice blurred the game.  Swansea, the final 25minutes blurred a horrible performance.  West Brom not as bad but not great.

So, I’ve now got one game (Leicester) and 2/3ds of Plymouth to add into the mix of 20+ games.  Some good, too many not so good imho

If I see consistency (of intent) going forward then some of those 20+ games will move into the “archives” and be less relevant.

Others will have very different ways of getting to their viewpoint. That is absolutely fine.  I’m just expressing mine.  Some people think I want to be right.  Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for LM to bring success to Bristol City.  The only manager I’ve ever been against appointing was Pulis.  Up the reds!

 

I thought the Ipswich tactics and performance were pretty good. Swansea was a pretty terrible winning performance, but you could see that irrespective of the annoyingly passive block, the players had no confidence left, and that just happens in football when pressure builds.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

I agree with the majority of what you say but I don’t buy into this if Leicester had brought there shooting boots blah blah city had just as many chances as they did given in my opinion there was deffo 2 poss 3 pens we should could of had 

Spot on, and there have been a few games where we've fluffed our lines in the final third and not won the game, so how far do you go with the ifs, buts and maybes?!