Tinnion is back!

[Sir Geoff]

1 minute ago, Jobi said:

This idea he has “reverted” to anything is nonsense, he has changed, he had to, no doubt about that….but reverted to what?

 

The style that the squad was built for.

High pressing, quick turnover, attack with pace.

[Jobi]

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

The style that the squad was built for.

High pressing, quick turnover, attack with pace.

If that’s the case then well done to Manning for adapting and making positive progress.

[RedRock]

12 minutes ago, Jobi said:

If that’s the case then well done to Manning for adapting and making positive progress.

Umm. Well, his brief was to play front foot, high press, attacking and entertaining football. 

He lost me when the team were playing anything but. I highly suspect that some ‘direction’ from above was given to correct his pathway, similar to Steve Lansdown’s intervention with the rugby side. If so, well done whoever provided the ‘directive’ and as that was likely to be Jon and Tins, a rare credit to them.  

The only on-going issue is whether Manning will revert to the passive, predictable, possession football mode in the future. 

[Back of the Dolman]

38 minutes ago, Jobi said:

If that’s the case then well done to Manning for adapting and making positive progress.

Went against his footballing ideas to save his job more like 

[Jobi]

10 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Went against his footballing ideas to save his job more like 

Quite possible, but nothing wrong with that. Schumacher did the same thing at Stoke. 

 

28 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Umm. Well, his brief was to play front foot, high press, attacking and entertaining football. 

He lost me when the team were playing anything but. I highly suspect that some ‘direction’ from above was given to correct his pathway, similar to Steve Lansdown’s intervention with the rugby side. If so, well done whoever provided the ‘directive’ and as that was likely to be Jon and Tins, a rare credit to them.  

The only on-going issue is whether Manning will revert to the passive, predictable, possession football mode in the future. 

Yes, will be interesting to see who he brings in over the summer - Twine has made a difference. 

[Galley is our king]

11 minutes ago, Jobi said:

 

 

Yes, will be interesting to see who he brings in over the summer - Twine has made a difference. 

But nowhere near enough of a difference to pay anywhere near prices quoted IMHO.

[Back of the Dolman]

8 minutes ago, Jobi said:

Quite possible, but nothing wrong with that. Schumacher did the same thing at Stoke. 

 

Yes, will be interesting to see who he brings in over the summer - Twine has made a difference. 

It concerned me that it took so long to make the change.

I’m not against LM, he’s in charge now so regardless of what people think about his appointment or the way NP was treated, you have to move on.

I’ve said before on here that good coaches will adapt and deploy tactics suitable to the squad they have at their disposal and it took too long to go to the style that suited this squad.

I have also been concerned that in game adaptability and change hasn’t happened when clearly things weren’t working.

Like I said I’m not against LM but I’m yet to be convinced 

[Steve Watts]

2 hours ago, Jobi said:

you can’t play the type of football we have been without it being drilled

I'm not sure that a tick in the plus box!

[Homer Simpson]

It's not just recently that BT has hidden when the going gets tuff, he has a long history of it. The partial report pasted below, is from a newspaper article at the time of his sacking as manager. Is this the type of person that should be at the head of an organisation operating in a high pressure environment? 

Tinnion was so dejected by the latest debacle at Swansea he refused to face the press after the game, leaving chairman Lansdown to try to explain City's capitulation.

Lansdown branded his side's 7-1 collapse as "humiliating" - and admitted the Robins were lucky to escape the New Stadium without a double-figure beating.

"It has been a disastrous game for us. It was a humiliating result and a humiliating performance," he said after Kenny Jackett's Swans inflicted the heaviest defeat on the Bristol club for 71 years.

 

[mozo]

On 05/05/2024 at 06:08, FNQ said:

From a points perspective we’ve finished this season further away from the top 6 and closer to the bottom 3 than where we finished last season. In fact, we are now, within 1 point, as far away from the top 6 as we are away from relegation. 

If we continue to trend progressively as Tinnion sees it, we’ll be going down in a couple of years time.

The fact that he was unprofessional enough to post that tweet just about sums up our plight.

I think this logic is totally wrong.

If we keep increasing our points total as we have done, we'll keep getting closer to the playoffs (the points totals of our rivals for 6th will fluctuate season on season). 

How many points the current team in 6th from top or 3rd from bottom, is out of our control, so it's ridiculous judging our performance in comparison to them. 

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

This isn't me supporting Tinnion's embarrassing Twitter usage, but we HAVE improved incrementally this season.

Edited May 6 by mozo

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, mozo said:

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

It is an improvement on last season.

The question is whether it’s an improvement on expectation, the hierarchy’s expectation and us fans’ expectations!  I’d say it’s closer to most fans expectations, but below the hierarchy’s.  It is normally the other way around.

[Roe]

33 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think this logic is totally wrong.

If we keep increasing our points total as we have done, we'll keep getting closer to the playoffs (the points totals of our rivals for 6th will fluctuate season on season). 

How many points the current team in 6th from top or 3rd from bottom, is out of our control, so it's ridiculous judging our performance in comparison to them. 

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

This isn't me supporting Tinnion's embarrassing Twitter usage, but we HAVE improved incrementally this season.

The table since Manning has been here has us 13th. So, sure, there's overall improvement over the season as a whole, but there's also been a slight regression since a big change was made.

It's only normal and fair that people will question whether that's really progress

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

I think this logic is totally wrong.

If we keep increasing our points total as we have done, we'll keep getting closer to the playoffs (the points totals of our rivals for 6th will fluctuate season on season). 

How many points the current team in 6th from top or 3rd from bottom, is out of our control, so it's ridiculous judging our performance in comparison to them. 

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

This isn't me supporting Tinnion's embarrassing Twitter usage, but we HAVE improved incrementally this season.

We have improved on points and position, not gonna use difference between play offs and relegation to prove an irrelevant point. What doesn’t go away for me is that run of 13 points in 15 games I think it was after Boxing Day. That cannot happen again.

As for Sid, read the sodding room. Such a post given the two sided nature of the fanbase was bound to be inflammatory. Show some ******* professionalism for a change and perhaps, when (massive if more like) you’ve got a lot more of the fanbase onside you can crow a little. We ain’t the Few, we don’t tug ourselves silly over soundbites that sound good but don’t play out.

[Sleepy1968]

Allowing for a margin of error, you probably finish +/-3 points of where you should 80% of the time, ditto position.

The differences really aren't statistically significant season on season.

So aren't we broadly as good as we were last year, and as good under Manning as Pearson?

Unless we spend the latter third of next season in the mix for a play off place then I'll dare say there won't be progress then either.

Edited May 6 by Sleepy1968

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Allowing for a margin of error, you probably finish +/-3 points of where you should 80% of the time, ditto position.

The differences really aren't statistically significant season on season.

So aren't we broadly as good as we were last year, and as good under Manning as Pearson?

Unless we spend the latter third of next season in the mix for a play off place then I'll dare say there won't be progress then either.

You can use FFFP as a mitigating factor in the last three or four years. Next season, whilst we can’t blow the budget, obviously, it’s no longer a factor. We have a (small) squad of Championship, ready, able and experienced players and now it needs supplementing with players that enable Manning to take it on a step.

This season has proven it doesn’t need £30m chucking at it either as we have a number on an upward curve (Tanner, O’Leary, Conway if he stays, Roberts, Bell, TGH and now Bird) who should be better players next season, a couple at their peak, a punt or two we hope can explode on the scene and a few going in the opposite direction. A bit more depth and quality is clearly required.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

I think this logic is totally wrong.

 

If we keep increasing our points total as we have done, we'll keep getting closer to the playoffs (the points totals of our rivals for 6th will fluctuate season on season). 

 

How many points the current team in 6th from top or 3rd from bottom, is out of our control, so it's ridiculous judging our performance in comparison to them. 

 

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

 

This isn't me supporting Tinnion's embarrassing Twitter usage, but we HAVE improved incrementally this season.

 

 

I think the logic of league placings is wrong.

It's flawed. You could finish 7th but still be 10 points off the play offs. Would finishing 7th but 10 points off the play offs be an improvement? No because you've not been in the conversation of getting a play off spot. 

An improvement for me is getting to within 4/5/6 points of the play offs because then you're in that conversation. You've gone from being a team that's not competing to being a team that's competing. 

I can't see how anyone would think finishing further away from the play offs and competing than last season is an improvement. Because it's simply not. 

It's another season where we've not been in the conversation. In a season where many of us expected us to get closer to being in that conversation. 

Next season 62 points could get you 15th place. Would you then consider that a regression? 

Last season 62 points would have got us.......14th position. I'd have considered that an improvement because we would have been 7 points from the play offs. 

In 21/22 62 points would have got us 14th position. 

Each season you have to play 46 games. Anything from 68 points to 80 points can be the target to get 6th place. It changes every year. 

That's the problem with your logic. Your logic would only work if the points target was the same every season. 

If Coventry would have got 71 points this season would you have considered that an improvement from their 70 the previous season which secured them a play off place? Even tho 71 points this season wouldn't have been enough for the play offs this season? 

Football is a simple game and you're over complicating it. If the opposition get better, you need to improve more than they do. You can't stand still and expect success. 

You'll be happy for me to come back to this post in 12 months time if we get 63 points but finish 6 points off 11th? 

 

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It is an improvement on last season.

The question is whether it’s an improvement on expectation, the hierarchy’s expectation and us fans’ expectations!  I’d say it’s closer to most fans expectations, but below the hierarchy’s.  It is normally the other way around.

 

2 hours ago, Roe said:

The table since Manning has been here has us 13th. So, sure, there's overall improvement over the season as a whole, but there's also been a slight regression since a big change was made.

It's only normal and fair that people will question whether that's really progress

On Manning, for me the jury is still out ..

[Jobi]

4 hours ago, Back of the Dolman said:

It concerned me that it took so long to make the change.

I’m not against LM, he’s in charge now so regardless of what people think about his appointment or the way NP was treated, you have to move on.

I’ve said before on here that good coaches will adapt and deploy tactics suitable to the squad they have at their disposal and it took too long to go to the style that suited this squad.

I have also been concerned that in game adaptability and change hasn’t happened when clearly things weren’t working.

Like I said I’m not against LM but I’m yet to be convinced 

I think all new managers who take over mid season need a pre season to get their points across and add some players, I agree re:changing in game however I think he’s improved.

[Back of the Dolman]

12 minutes ago, Jobi said:

I think all new managers who take over mid season need a pre season to get their points across and add some players, I agree re:changing in game however I think he’s improved.

I agree partly with the points you make, however he made a rod for his own back by trying to implement a style that didn’t suit the squad.

I think that was a poor decision and rather naive.

He was always going to be judged more harshly due to the way NP exited but I don’t think he helped himself in the early stages here.

He tried to change too much too soon, whether there was pressure from above to do that, who knows 

Edited May 6 by Back of the Dolman

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, Jobi said:

I think all new managers who take over mid season need a pre season to get their points across and add some players, I agree re:changing in game however I think he’s improved.

That's not really true is it? Plenty of managers go in to clubs and can deliver results and success without a pre season and their own players 

[Galley is our king]

3 minutes ago, Jobi said:

I think all new managers who take over mid season need a pre season to get their points across and add some players, I agree re:changing in game however I think he’s improved.

Interesting, so why then did they change the manager if what you say is true?

Not only that but to do so in the name of "improvement"? "top end finish"? Etc.

So glad you share my view that sacking Nige was completely and utterly stupid and unnecessary.

 

[milo1111]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It is an improvement on last season.

The question is whether it’s an improvement on expectation, the hierarchy’s expectation and us fans’ expectations!  I’d say it’s closer to most fans expectations, but below the hierarchy’s.  It is normally the other way around.

The public airing of the  hierarchy’s expectations earlier in the season were blatant lies though Dave.

[Capman]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

I think this logic is totally wrong.

If we keep increasing our points total as we have done, we'll keep getting closer to the playoffs (the points totals of our rivals for 6th will fluctuate season on season). 

How many points the current team in 6th from top or 3rd from bottom, is out of our control, so it's ridiculous judging our performance in comparison to them. 

How anyone cannot see us finishing 11th best team in the league and 62 points as an improvement is baffling.

This isn't me supporting Tinnion's embarrassing Twitter usage, but we HAVE improved incrementally this season.

I am sorry but I just think that logic is fundamentally flawed. If your objective is to reach the play offs as a minimum then the number of points you are off 6th is the only matrix by which success can be judged. The whole point of a league is that it is a comparison process. So if we are not the 6th best side in the league or better the season is a failure. Judging our performance against where we needed to be to hit that objective is the only figure which interests me. 
I understand that means we could end up with more points and a higher league position but still be seen as ‘going backwards’ but that is the reality of life. 
We start the season aiming for promotion. How far we are from hitting that target is my judgement of success. 

[Jobi]

38 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Interesting, so why then did they change the manager if what you say is true?

Not only that but to do so in the name of "improvement"? "top end finish"? Etc.

So glad you share my view that sacking Nige was completely and utterly stupid and unnecessary.

 

I guess it depends on the clubs view - not going to offer him a new deal, don’t want him spending money so therefore end the contract and get the person you want whilst he is available. No sacking is necessary when you are in mid table. I think they wanted Pearson gone and Manning was there man so went for it when ultimately it wasn’t a “necessity” in the way that SW and QPR were.

39 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

The public airing of the  hierarchy’s expectations earlier in the season were blatant lies though Dave.

It was absolute bollocks no idea why they created a rod for their own back. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

52 minutes ago, Capman said:

I am sorry but I just think that logic is fundamentally flawed. If your objective is to reach the play offs as a minimum then the number of points you are off 6th is the only matrix by which success can be judged. The whole point of a league is that it is a comparison process. So if we are not the 6th best side in the league or better the season is a failure. Judging our performance against where we needed to be to hit that objective is the only figure which interests me. 
I understand that means we could end up with more points and a higher league position but still be seen as ‘going backwards’ but that is the reality of life. 
We start the season aiming for promotion. How far we are from hitting that target is my judgement of success. 

Going in aiming for Promotion. We will have 4 or 5 Parachute clubs in the League depending on who wins the playoffs.

Top 2 just feels unlikely as any kind of realistic goal, a crack at the top 6 more feasible.

Ipswich caught that magic in a bottle and I suppose if you get on a roll, have a fast start  and loads goes your way but come on..a lot of their squad individually is nothing incredible. Otoh the 3 who drop maybe a bit weaker.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Luongo, Morsy both 30 plus, both okay but nothing amazing and yet great availability and over performance.

Since when did Broadhead, Chaplin, Burns become outstanding Championship players  Hirst age wise had some room for growth.

Leif Davis was their star, Kieffer Moore was a strong and well suited loan signing but Travis, Sarmiento and Al-Hamadi they aren't stars in the making albeit age is on the side of the latter.

Edited May 6 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Luongo, Morsy both 30 plus, both okay but nothing amazing and yet great aavailability and over performance.

Since when did Broadhead, Chaplin, Burns become outstanding Championship players  Hirst age wise had some room for growth.

Leif Davis wad their star, Kieffer Moore was a strong and well suited loan signing but Travis, Sarmiento and Al-Hamadi they aren't stars in the making albeit age is on the side of the latter.

They finished in the top two, end of story. Whether they should have is irrelevant. To get 94 points or whatever it was is a fantastic achievement. You can’t rubbish it. Leeds have better players on paper as do Southampton but Ipswich earned more points on the pitch………the only place it matters.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

They finished in the top two, end of story. Whether they should have is irrelevant. To get 94 points or whatever it was is a fantastic achievement. You can’t rubbish it. Leeds have better players on paper as do Southampton but Ipswich earned more points on the pitch………the only place it matters.

I'm not rubbishing it, if anything it could give multiple clubs hope but player for player it is remarkable.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm not rubbishing it, if anything it could give multiple clubs hope but player for player it is remarkable.

Yes, using us as an example, things would have to align spectacularly to finish top two. We just don’t have the clout to dominate a division.

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, milo1111 said:

The public airing of the  hierarchy’s expectations earlier in the season were blatant lies though Dave.

I do think there was part of them that sort of believed it and all it needed was an on-the-grass coach.  They are still peddling it for next season don’t forget!

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Luongo, Morsy both 30 plus, both okay but nothing amazing and yet great availability and over performance.

Since when did Broadhead, Chaplin, Burns become outstanding Championship players  Hirst age wise had some room for growth.

Leif Davis was their star, Kieffer Moore was a strong and well suited loan signing but Travis, Sarmiento and Al-Hamadi they aren't stars in the making albeit age is on the side of the latter.

Chaplin is very good Champ player, playoffs with Barnsley don’t forget.  Broadhead, Everton, don’t forget, young, upside.