Fao Mr Draisey

[cider head]

because of Hillsbrough thats why all stadiums are now becoming all seated. No one desagrees with a bit of standing during exciting periods in the game but what the point in standing for thefull 90 mins. These people should be banned for breaking the rules and showing a lack of respect for other fans.

www.5th-way.co.uk

Register with this exciting new forum network and be entered in to a weekly prize draw for a full city home and away kit with names and numbers everyweek.

←

correction not ALL stadiums are all seater loads have and will keep their terracing

[cider head]

Is this the Bristol city fans equivelant to the celebrity Diva??

Ive gotta have this when i watch a football match otherwise i will kick off??

←

yes i want a winning team or we kick, well on here we do

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

I can't belive people can't see that a request for stewards that know who's who, have dealt with the EXACT type of problems from saturday, last season and smile while they're doing it is such a contentious issue.

I've seen some total crap on this thread, from people who know nothing that went on last saturday, have no clue what E block was like last season and seem to associate two people standing up and refusing to sit akin to Hillsbrough.

[Wilksi]

There do seem to be some precious types on here 

←

and some

[cider head]

I can't belive people can't see that a request for stewards that know who's who, have dealt with the EXACT type of problems from saturday, last season and smile while they're doing it is such a contentious issue.

I've seen some total crap on this thread, from people who know nothing that went on last saturday, have no clue what E block was like last season and seem to associate two people standing up and refusing to sit akin to Hillsbrough.

←

don't bite mate people our out to wind it up

[Sirben]

I know, we could get all the stewards to stand in the middle before the match starts and each block could take it in turns picking out which one they would like?? Everyones happy then??

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

because of Hillsbrough thats why all stadiums are now becoming all seated. No one desagrees with a bit of standing during exciting periods in the game but what the point in standing for thefull 90 mins. These people should be banned for breaking the rules and showing a lack of respect for other fans.

←

1. Wrong all seating stadia are not directly because of Hillsbrough

Read the Taylor report and get yourself a clue on at least one matter.

2. This thread isn't about standing for 90 mins

[claloudav]

If a person at a football match was stood infront of you in an all-seated area then wouldn't you just politely ask them to sit down? Hate to point out the obvious but I think that's what most people would do.

[Sirben]

If you know if this then inform the management, surely this is more important than having your own personal minders and fluffy cushions to sit on during a match if you cant stand up??

[Wilksi]

In the 1st post by willsbridge she said that you want your old stewards back from the williams. because they understood and had a laugh with you. Sounds like to me they let you do what u wanted and stand and be annoying. And now your compllaining that the stewards in g block r to strict.

←

It sounds to me like you have never been to asthon gate then.

I don't think wills would like being called a woman either...

READ EVERY POST BEFORE POSTING PLEASE...

You are not helping yourslef at all.

[cider head]

In the 1st post by willsbridge she said that you want your old stewards back from the williams. because they understood and had a laugh with you. Sounds like to me they let you do what u wanted and stand and be annoying. And now your compllaining that the stewards in g block r to strict.

←

far from it they made people sit down in e-block willams stand as they gave people some respect which was given back in return

[Wilksi]

If you know if this then inform the management, surely this is more important than having your own personal minders and fluffy cushions to sit on during a match if you cant stand up??

←

This has been done and people who need to know, know.

[BB.]

because of Hillsbrough thats why all stadiums are now becoming all seated. No one desagrees with a bit of standing during exciting periods in the game but what the point in standing for thefull 90 mins. These people should be banned for breaking the rules and showing a lack of respect for other fans.

←

So you do still believe standing was to blame for the Hillsbrough disaster.

People shouldn't be banned for standing the full 90 mins. The club could take notice that some fans prefer to stand and accomodate for them, in terms of a small standing area.

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

Oh dear, the cluelesness is comeplete

[Wilksi]

Sorry pressed quote on the wrong person!!!!

I was in the back row and everone in front of me was stood up..

I am not asking to stand up during games because my legs cant take it..

All we are asking for is stewards who know how to do thier job correctly and do it.

If that means throwing people out then fine do this. But the stewards there on saturday did now know how to do thier job..

Its not about standing, please get that through your head.

[claloudav]

You shouldn't have to put up with a mouthful of abuse just because you want to sit in the seat you payed for and cannot view the match because others aren't follow regulations. Personally, if someone shouted abuse at me I would go to a steward because at the end of the day you've payed for a seat with an unrestrcited view to watch your team play and you should be entitled to that abuse-free.

If everyone showed a ltittle consideration for everyone else then there wouldn't really be this problem. It';s understandable that the crowd stands for a few minutes because they are excited or a goal has been scored. However when it's persisant I do think it;s unfair on everyone else.

[Guest BCFC_JOHNERZ_88]

because i want to sit with like minded people who want to sing and get behined

their team and not sat in the middle of people who turn around and stare at you

like your an f'ing idiot for getting behined your team, that is why people go off

in groups to get away from that.

←

totally agree with u there mate people look at you as if u have done something wrong even though your just getting behind the team

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

I don't blame the standing for hillsbrough i blame the terraceing. Many clubs went to all seating after that to stop it happening again. If the club had a small standing area which the league wouldn't allow as we are now a all seater stadium then another hillsbrough would happen as many fans would try to get in there.

←

Do you actually know anything about Hillsbrough?

The same scale of disaster would have happend with seating.

[Wilksi]

I don't blame the standing for hillsbrough i blame the terraceing. Many clubs went to all seating after that to stop it happening again. If the club had a small standing area which the league wouldn't allow as we are now a all seater stadium then another hillsbrough would happen as many fans would try to get in there.

←

if it was as bad as you say then how come lower league clubs are terracing? most away grounds in this league have it, let alone the ones above..

Please please please read the taylor report as you are coming across ill-informed.

[gazareth]

Do you actually know anything about Hillsbrough?

The same scale of disaster would have happend with seating.

←

That's highly unlikely, surely. If there was seating, whoever was selling the tickets would have known exactly how many people they could let in and there wouldn't have been a problem.

[cider head]

Do you actually know anything about Hillsbrough?

The same scale of disaster would have happend with seating.

←

ok hillsborough.......

FACT-SHEET TWO: HILLSBOROUGH AND THE TAYLOR REPORT

April 15th 1989, saw the worst disaster in the history of English football; 96 Liverpool fans

attending their team's FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest at Sheffield Wednesday's

ground, Hillsborough, were crushed to death on the Leppings Lane terrace, and English

football would never be the same again.

The disaster was basically caused by the failure of South Yorkshire Police to control a large

crowd of Liverpool fans outside the Leppings Lane End, and the poor state of the ground,

but it was also clear that football's total failure to learn from the numerous disasters that had

afflicted it during the twentieth century, and a police force conditioned to view supporters as

potential hooligans and so always expecting violence, contributed significantly to the 96 deaths

and many hundreds of injuries.

WHAT HAPPENED ON THE DAY?

Liverpool had been allocated the Leppings Lane End of the ground, and it was outside this end from,

about 2.30pm that a large crowd of fans had built up. Fans were also delayed on their way to the

game by roadworks on the M62 motorway. Warnings issued as far back as 1927 about the need to

prevent a large build-up of supporters were ignored, and a sizeable crowd of thousands of Liverpool

fans was allowed to build up outside the Leppings Lane End, leading to increasing congestion and

then crushing at the front. Stewarding was also described as poor at this end of the ground.

The police later claimed that fans had been drinking excessively.

The Leppings Lane gates led into a concourse: from this, fans could enter a main tunnel that

fed into pens three and four of the terrace. Additionally, there were access points to the left and

right of the tunnel that led to the other pens on the Leppings Lane terrace. As the sections

immediately behind the goal, pens three and four were the most popular and were already full

over twenty minutes before kick-off, a fact noticed by BBC commentators in their build-up to the

game, and by match commander Chief Superintendent David Duckinfield watching events from

the police control box. Meanwhile, the crowd outside continued to build, with little effort made to

prevent the numbers outside the gates swelling any further: the crushing outside was becoming

progressively worse, police horses were becoming agitated, and 2.47pm, thirteen minutes before

kick-off, police officers outside the Leppings Lane End radioed to Duckinfield (in charge of his first

major match), informing him that the crushing was becoming severe, and that people were going

to die if the gates were not opened to relieve the pressure. After a brief delay, Duckinfield ordered

that Gate C be opened, and close on 2,000 Liverpool fans were directed through the gates into

the concourse.

By now however, pens three and four were already over-congested; fans streamed into the tunnel,

and then into pens three and four, creating a massive crush and trapping supporters at the front of

the pens against the steel perimeter fence. Some estimates claim that there were twice the number

of supporters in pens three and four than they were designed to cope with. The resultant crush

became unbearable, with the fans at the back unable to see that the pens were already full, and

the fans at the front already starting to show signs of distress and asphixiation.

Fans started to try and climb the fences to escape the pens, and some were lifted out of the pens

by supporters in the tier above the terrace, but the crushing was becoming fatal as the game kicked

off. Fans tried to attract the attention of police officers, but were unable to do so, and later complained

that some supporters trying to escape the pens had been pushed back into the crowd by officers

who seemed to think they were dealing with an attempted pitch invasion. Other fans reported shouting

to police officers to open the gates, but simply being ignored. By 3.05pm, fans managed to alert

Liverpool goalkeeper Bruce Grobbelaar, who in turn pointed out the problem to the referee, as fans

were already making their way over the fences before collapsing on the side of the pitch.

The players were taken off at 3.06, and the emergency operation began, with Liverpool fans ripping

up advertising hoardings to use as stretchers. It was becoming clear that this was going to be a major

disaster, and there was later criticism of police officers who stood in a line across the half-way line,

apparently to prevent any "charge" by Liverpool fans against the Forest supporters at the other end

of the ground. Other junior officers climbed from pen two into pen three in an effort to help the victims

by now piled up everywhere inside the pen, while others desperately tried to pull down the perimeter

fence.

The game was abandoned at half-time, with fans, junior police officers and the emergency services

still trying to get the injured to hospital, with some people still being admitted as late as 4pm. But in

total, 95 fans died in the next couple of days, young, old, male, female. One more supporter, Tony

Bland, died after spending four years on a ventilator machine.

At 3.15pm, Graham Kelly, chief executive of the Football Association, had gone to the police control

box, where he was told by Duckinfield that Liverpool fans had rushed the gate into the ground, creating

the fatal crush in pens three and four, despite the fact that he had ordered the gate opened.

At 4.15pm, Kelly was interviewed by the BBC, and he told them the police had implied to him that the

gates had been opened unauthorised. The story flashed around the world that drunken Liverpool fans

had forced the gates open, and it was splashed all over the newspapers the following morning.

The suggestion that Liverpool fans were responsible for the disaster was picked up most strongly later

that week by the 'Sun' newspaper, who ran maybe their most infamous headline on the personal

instruction of editor Kelvin McKenzie. Acting on information from unnamed police officers, and entitled

"The Truth", the 'Sun' claimed that drunken fans had forced the gates open because they did not have

match-tickets, that they stolen from the corpses lying on the pitch, assaulted police officers and the

emergency services, stolen cameras and other equipment from press photographers, and urinated on

police officers helping the victims. Months later, the "Sun" admitted that the allegations were totally false,

but it had already generated headlines all over the world, and the damage had been done.

THE TAYLOR REPORTS

The failure to close or block the tunnel leading into the already full pens three and four once the police

had ordered Gate C to be opened was the immediate cause of the disaster, but the public inquiries set

up by the Thatcher Government under Lord Justice Peter Taylor found, more generally, that football had

simply not learned anything from the numerous disasters in its past, that it and the police were so

obsessed with the threat of violence that they were unable to spot people in genuine danger of their lives,

that police fundamentally lost control of the situation, and did not demonstrate the leadership expected

of senior officers, that safety procedures were inadequate, that the ground was badly maintained and

dangerous, that fans were routinely treated with contempt by football, and that fans had been the victims

rather the guilty party. His reports, published in August 1989 and January 1990, dismissed the allegations

against Liverpool supporters for the disaster, and called instead for a total rethink in the industry's attitudes

towards fans, and on the issue of safety. It also highlighted the failures by local authorities to check

safety certificates for stadia (Sheffield Wednesday had redeveloped parts of the ground without obtaining

a new safety certificate, or telling the emergency services: the result was that the safety certificate was

outdated and useless, and that plans Sheffield Wednesday had developed with the local emergency

services could not be put into practice, as the layout of the ground had changed).

Specifically, Taylor recommended the closure of terraces at all grounds, new safety measures on exits

and entrances, and a new advisory committee on stadium design to ensure that best practice was followed.

Crucially, Taylor also recommended that the Government's Identity Card scheme (whereby all fans would

have to have a membership card to get into a ground) be dropped, on grounds of safety, a suggestion

that the Government reluctantly carried out. Taylor's report did not have the force of law, and not all his

recommendations were carried out, but his work in identifying the wider reasons for the disaster has been

acknowledged as one of the most significant turning points in the history of English football. The result

was the total transformation of British stadia, paid for in large part by tax-payers' money, with terraces at

grounds in the top two divisions closed by May 1994, and new safety regulations and regimes put in place

at every stadium.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE 1989?

The controversy over the disaster has not subsided: Thatcher's Press Secretary, Bernard Ingham, has

frequently repeated the allegations made by the 'Sun', as did Brian Clough (Nottingham Forest manager

on the day of the disaster) some five years later; a boycott of the 'Sun' on Merseyside (that still goes on

to this day) has cost its parent company News International tens of millions of pounds in lost revenue;

new Government enquiries were ordered to see if there was a case for criminal prosecutions (undertaken

by Lord Justice Stuart-Smith); television documentaries and academics have alleged a systematic police

cover-up (written evidence from junior officers to the Taylor enquiry was altered by superiors, for instance);

and until 1999, Sheffield Wednesday refused to erect a memorial at the ground to the victims (leading to

Liverpool fans boycotting Hillsborough in season 1998-99). Finally, in 2000, families of the victims brought

a private, civil prosecution against Duckinfield and his deputy Bernard Murray, for manslaughter.

Murray was acquitted, but the jury were unable to reach a verdict in the case of Duckinfield, and the

judge prevented a re-trial. Nonetheless, the two Hillsborough groups (the Hillsborough Family Support

Group, and the Justice for Hillsborough campaign) remain determined to pursue the truth of what happened

that day. Over a decade later, Hillsborough remains a highly controversial issue, with its effects most

obvious at every stadium in the country.

[Wilksi]

I understand it's about the stewards. These stewards u had on sat mite of been new so therefull not knowing how to deal with difficult people. See what its like after the next home game and if its just as bad then start complaining.

←

ok fair comment.

but, i have sat in the atyeo for years, and 4 of the stewards were atyeo stewards and we had one of hte chief stewards from the atyeo in there as well..

They were new to the dolman and have no people skills.

one of them sounds like a girl to be fair.

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

That's highly unlikely, surely. If there was seating, whoever was selling the tickets would have known exactly how many people they could let in and there wouldn't have been a problem.

←

The terrace at leppings lane was all ticket. It is nothing to do with overselling tickets.

[Wilksi]

Yes i know alot about hillsbrough as ive read countless books and watched countless tv programs about it. Do u no ne thin about manners and respect?

←

Text speaks not allowed on this site, Part of the RULES.

I now think you should be banned as you have broken the RULES.

Not nice is it?? now you know what it feels like

Wheres cynic when you need him..

[Guest]

Y.S.C are a great bunch of lads and lasses from babes hardly out of nappies to near pensioners. They have only the well being of this club at heart, they keep singing when most of the rest have given up and gone home.

Seems to me a lot of the hassle stems from the removal of the flag from the side of the stand when it was o.k in the Williams last year. This is the same flag that has been all over the country in support of this club havent got a clue why it was taken down especailly as the away fans couldnt see it. Maybe someone will enlighten me.

[cider head]

The terrace at leppings lane was all ticket.  It is nothing to do with overselling tickets.

←

hillsborough was a massive police and steward cock up

[gazareth]

The terrace at leppings lane was all ticket.  It is nothing to do with overselling tickets.

←

True but had it been at an all-seater stadium with reserved seating, the fans would not have ended up bottle-necking into one area.

Please note that I'm not saying that terracing was the cause of Hillsborough - I am well aware of the police mismanagement of the situation. I just wanted to counter the argument that the disaster would still have happened in an all-seater stand.

[Keepers Ball]

I don't suppose one of these stewards was a ginger haired bloke by any chance ?

If it is no wonder it got out of hand.The blokes a complete arse-hole in my eyes.He stands there trying to look hard.

He's been given a yellow jacket and a radio and the bloke thinks he works for MI5 !

[cider head]

So y did he recomend the closure of all terrecing

←

passing the buck, on to the fans as per usual

it all boils down to amount of people turning up.

it would have been just the same that day with seats

as the amount of people that was allowed to enter the ground

plus no escape route due to fencing, the fence helped to kill

not the standing as people could have escaped.

[Wilksi]

I don't suppose one of these stewards was a ginger haired bloke by any chance ?

If it is no wonder it got out of hand.The blokes a complete arse-hole in my eyes.He stands there trying to look hard.

He's been given a yellow jacket and a radio and the bloke thinks he works for MI5 !

←

no I don't think so, he thinks hes grant mitchell but sounds like peggy mitchell.