Thinking Of Joining The St But..

[jellyred]

Ello,

Was thinking of joining the ST but just wanted to know the answer to a few of quick questions.

What is it that a Board Member without Portfolio does? Are they voted onto the board by the ST members? Or are they given a place on the board by the chairman or other board members?

Ta.

[Topsham Red]

How wierd, I was thinking the very same thing today in work. What do they do?????

[EmersonsKev]

Ello,

Was thinking of joining the ST but just wanted to know the answer to a few of quick questions.

What is it that a Board Member without Portfolio does? Are they voted onto the board by the ST members? Or are they given a place on the board by the chairman or other board members?

Ta.

I'd advise you to stick your question directly on to the ST forum. Bristol City Supporters Trust Forum I'm sure someone will be able to give you an answer.

[bh_red]

looking on wilk it is?

In the United Kingdom, it is often a Cabinet position, and is sometimes used to get people such as the Chairman of the Conservative Party or the Chair of the Labour Party into cabinet meetings (if so they hold the title of "Party Chair"). The sinecure positions of Lord Privy Seal and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster can also be used for equivalent effect.

so basically it is a special position made up for someone to get them involved although they have no real powers or responsiblity?

sounds a like like those dodgy government cash for honours things? something to get your mates into special places if they give a decent back hander?

otib going all political?? why the weird question?

[tompo]

[jellyred]

[Topsham Red]

Tompo, i take it your a member of the supporters trust??

Only i've been reading with interest alot of comments about the ST recently as i try to make up my mind whether to join or not and what comes accross is that the ST seems a bit 'matey'. - what i mean by that is if your a friend of the board then we'll give you a position - i.e - board member without portfolio, and currently that is what is stopping me from joining the ST.

Also when these positions, in fact all the positions where founded and voted for, how many people voted?? Because you can say its all democratic, but if only say 10 people voted, i can't see how it is.

This question isn't just for tompo (assuming he is on the ST), but for any member, and if you can pursuade me otherwise then i'd be happy to join the ST.

[tompo]

Thanks for that Tompo, I was concerned that they were simply given the position as a way to get peoples mates on the board and influence things and thereby get round any kind of ST member vote.

You can be assured that both board members without portfolio do more than their fair share on behalf of the Trust.

[bh red]

You can be assured that both board members without portfolio do more than their fair share on behalf of the Trust.

see they said, you have to believe them! they are the almighty?

think that is what is putting a few people off to be fair, the whole you have done a bit of work, here have a place on the board?

[EmersonsKev]

see they said, you have to believe them! they are the almighty?

think that is what is putting a few people off to be fair, the whole you have done a bit of work, here have a place on the board?

Where did Nick at any point say you had to believe him?

All board members those with specific roles or without portfolio were elected at the AGM where the vote took place and all members were given the chance to stand for election.

[bh red]

Where did Nick at any point say you had to believe him?

All board members those with specific roles or without portfolio were elected at the AGM where the vote took place and all members were given the chance to stand for election.

"you can be assured"

[Jay]

Tompo, i take it your a member of the supporters trust??

Yes he is. He is the Fans Representation Officer

Only i've been reading with interest alot of comments about the ST recently as i try to make up my mind whether to join or not and what comes accross is that the ST seems a bit 'matey'. - what i mean by that is if your a friend of the board then we'll give you a position - i.e - board member without portfolio, and currently that is what is stopping me from joining the ST.

As a fellow ST Board member, I'd suggest that, if you are able to make it along to one of the ST open meetings, you'd be able to make your mind up. When I first attended a meeting, I went alone & didn't know any of the other people attending. I was made to feel welcome, my opinions were taken on board & I was encouraged to be involved in the debate.

Also when these positions, in fact all the positions where founded and voted for, how many people voted?? Because you can say its all democratic, but if only say 10 people voted, i can't see how it is.

At the time of the Board being elected, all members (aprox 200+ at the time) were contacted & given the opportunity to vote. I'm sorry that I don't know the final voting numbers at the moment.

This question isn't just for tompo (assuming he is on the ST), but for any member, and if you can pursuade me otherwise then i'd be happy to join the ST.

A lot of hard work & dedication takes place within BCST. We seem to face a lot of criticism on this forum but usually by those that have not taken the time to attend a meeting or research the aims of the Trust. You do not have to be a member to attend an ST open meeting. Next open meeting is on Tuesday 14th November at the Ship & Castle (by Ashton Gate) - it would be great to see you.

[Topsham Red]

Thanks for the reply Jay,

Unfortunately i'm away on a stag do that week, if you let me know the date of the one after that, i'll add it to my diary and i'll certainly come along.

in the meantime i'd be greatful if you or another member could let me know the numbers of the vote (i'm assuming it'll be an easy thing to post), i'm intregued to see how many people actually voted, you say there was 200+ members at the time, but it'll be interesting to see how many actually voted, as this will help me with research.

Also, the fans representation officer, how many fans does he represent?? - apologies for my ignorance.

[bh red]

Thanks for the reply Jay,

Unfortunately i'm away on a stag do that week, if you let me know the date of the one after that, i'll add it to my diary and i'll certainly come along.

in the meantime i'd be greatful if you or another member could let me know the numbers of the vote (i'm assuming it'll be an easy thing to post), i'm intregued to see how many people actually voted, you say there was 200+ members at the time, but it'll be interesting to see how many actually voted, as this will help me with research.

Also, the fans representation officer, how many fans does he represent?? - apologies for my ignorance.

think there was about 300+ plus at one point, whether that has gone up or done? god knows?

[old_man_terry]

Ok, time to stick my two pence worth in, on this ST thing

alot has been said about the trust in recent weeks about them and this seems to be following on from it,

The ST have become more prominent since taking over this forum, unfortnately I think that has became part of their downfall, it's good that they have covered the funding for this forum and some of their people have taken on moderating roles.

This I feel is part of the downfall. I feel for someone to be an Mod and ST rep possibly creates a conflict of interest and this is something that seems to be picked up by certain members of this forum. Alot of those people have expressed their views of this and have so to say "been shot down in flames" Orj, Richieb and others have made their views clear on various subjects and have since had since been put on "moderator preview" or just been banned, even had court action made against (and since dropped) against them, what happens when anyone else makes thier views to agree with them, they get shot down by other mods/st members basically being told to "keep your nose out" or "if you don't like it don't read it" or those people who are against us clearly haven't read out aims, those ST board members/Mods I'm sure you know who you are.

My initial view of the trust was......why do we actually need it? unfortunatly I still feel the same, they have carried out some good events, but nothing really that wasn't done before in one capacity of another

Personally I went to the initial Trust Legends night and liked what I heard especailly from a conversation with the guy in charge that night? (Miles I believe) but wanted to wait to see what happened and how they developed before I parted with my cash, I'm already a member of the Supporters Club, so felt why should I join to scheme's basically doing the same thing, so sat back and watched what happened.

Now however Miles has stepped down from his role, understandable due to family reason, this is now a MAJOR turning point for the trust whether it comes from within or from but I think it is VITAL that they find the right person who has the PASSION and DESIRE to actually make this thing work.

So far I don't see that they have really met their aims, But I'm sure many of us would like them to.

[Jay]

Ok, time to stick my two pence worth in, on this ST thing

alot has been said about the trust in recent weeks about them and this seems to be following on from it,

The ST have become more prominent since taking over this forum, unfortnately I think that has became part of their downfall, it's good that they have covered the funding for this forum and some of their people have taken on moderating roles.

This I feel is part of the downfall. I feel for someone to be an Mod and ST rep possibly creates a conflict of interest and this is something that seems to be picked up by certain members of this forum. Alot of those people have expressed their views of this and have so to say "been shot down in flames" Orj, Richieb and others have made their views clear on various subjects and have since had since been put on "moderator preview" or just been banned, even had court action made against (and since dropped) against them, what happens when anyone else makes thier views to agree with them, they get shot down by other mods/st members basically being told to "keep your nose out" or "if you don't like it don't read it" or those people who are against us clearly haven't read out aims, those ST board members/Mods I'm sure you know who you are.

My initial view of the trust was......why do we actually need it? unfortunatly I still feel the same, they have carried out some good events, but nothing really that wasn't done before in one capacity of another

Personally I went to the initial Trust Legends night and liked what I heard especailly from a conversation with the guy in charge that night? (Miles I believe) but wanted to wait to see what happened and how they developed before I parted with my cash, I'm already a member of the Supporters Club, so felt why should I join to scheme's basically doing the same thing, so sat back and watched what happened.

Now however Miles has stepped down from his role, understandable due to family reason, this is now a MAJOR turning point for the trust whether it comes from within or from but I think it is VITAL that they find the right person who has the PASSION and DESIRE to actually make this thing work.

So far I don't see that they have really met their aims, But I'm sure many of us would like them to.

Ok, a lot of interesting comments made here. I'll do my best to address them where possible.

It's correct that Bristol City Supporters Trust (BCST) have taken on the responsibility for funding this place. We were approached by BCFC at the start of the year & asked whether we'd be willing to take responsibility rather than let it die. The Club had their reasons for wanting to seperate themselves from this forum & we (BCST) felt that we should help keep this forum going due to the popularity & service this forum provides to fans. A lot of discussion took place before we finally chose to take on this forum. We knew that seeking funding from users would be tough as apathy seems to rule. We knew that the introduction of the Shoppiing Forum would help thing along but still we are falling short & banner advertising will be have to be the next step due to lack of donations (though we thank all of you that have kindly donated to date).

We knew that by taking on otib we'd come under criticism & fire. It was a conscious decision to make sure that there were an equal amount of BCST and non-BCST Moderators in order to help eliminate any possible bias that may creep in. We (BCST) knew that whilst people would question us, criticize us & that some would even try to undo us, we also knew that this was a good place to defend ourselves, prove ourselves & deal with a cross section of fans & their ideas. In the past 2 months, we have reduced the number of BCST moderators to 2 out of 8 (myself and Chris). With this in mind if anything, the bias is arguably against us, not for us.

Realistically, how many anti-BCST posts do you see get removed, edited or locked? It can't be many. You mention certain posters that may have been banned or placed on Moderator Preview. If this has happened it would have been because there was considered to be a serious legal issue that we couldn't afford to gamble with. None of the Moderators have any great legal knowledge, we're all volunteers & we simply haven't the time to get in to complicated legal issues. We need to adopt a "if in doubt, scrub it out" policy as it's BCST's and the website hosts (CLIK) with their asses on the line. We don't like to ban people and Moderator Preview is a useful tool as the poster can still read the forum & post whilst the Mods can double check that they are staying in line. Believing that people have been placed on Mod Preview or banned for holding an opinion about BCST is incorrect. It's the libel or potentially libel text that will have forced our hand.

It's also worth mentioning that if I or Chris (the 2 BCST connected Mods) are in doubt, we check with the other Mods first. Mods can not hide their actions - all actions are recorded. Whether it's edting a post, suspending an account, moving a thread or anything else, these actions are automatically logged & can be checked. If I were to do something that showed an unfair judgement/bias to BCST, it can be detected by one of the non-BCST mods & placed back on the forum.

As for Miles stepping down, we do consider this to be a pity as he put so much work in to getting BCST off the ground. However, without wishing to undervalue his worth, we don't consider it to be a MAJOR blow. Once again, BCST is run by it's volunteer members & no-one is commited to doing what they do forever more. All Board members and working party members put in what time they can afford & we've all had instances when we've had to step back in order to deal with life in general. BCST will carry on, the hard work will continue, we will try to do what we can for members and fans alike and our numbers continue to grow. The PASSION & DESIRE you mention exists in all those that are working within BCST to drive it forward and make a success of this organisation.

Thanks for your comments.

[CityDuke14]

Thanks for the reply Jay,

Unfortunately i'm away on a stag do that week, if you let me know the date of the one after that, i'll add it to my diary and i'll certainly come along.

in the meantime i'd be greatful if you or another member could let me know the numbers of the vote (i'm assuming it'll be an easy thing to post), i'm intregued to see how many people actually voted, you say there was 200+ members at the time, but it'll be interesting to see how many actually voted, as this will help me with research.

Also, the fans representation officer, how many fans does he represent?? - apologies for my ignorance.

There were 275 members at the date of the AGM.

42 of these members showed an interest in electing the board,28 attending, 11 proxy/postal votes, 3 discounted postal forms due to being incomplete.

All the information about this is on the Trust website

http://www.bristolcityst.org.uk/pdf/minute...6_05_31_agm.pdf

Due to Christmas, the next open meeting will be Tuesday 16th January 2007, same time and venue.

Whilst realising that it is impossible to please all of the people, all of the time, we do aim to represent ALL fans worldwide and therefore the answer to your question is, in excess of 30,000

[Collis]

The ST love Steve L. That is their main purpose.

[robins72]

The ST love Steve L. That is their main purpose.

Whos says?

[Collis]

Whos says?

The minority.

I have posted on this forum for years, but I don't agree with ST's policies. As I have commented before I don't want a ban so I will let it be.

[robins72]

The minority.

I have posted on this forum for years, but I don't agree with ST's policies. As I have commented before I don't want a ban so I will let it be.

Fair enough was just interested to here why the Supporters Trust love Steve Lansdown. As far as I was aware they were a trust for the fans not the chairman.

[swindlered]

Tompo, i take it your a member of the supporters trust??

Only i've been reading with interest alot of comments about the ST recently as i try to make up my mind whether to join or not and what comes accross is that the ST seems a bit 'matey'. - what i mean by that is if your a friend of the board then we'll give you a position - i.e - board member without portfolio, and currently that is what is stopping me from joining the ST.

Also when these positions, in fact all the positions where founded and voted for, how many people voted?? Because you can say its all democratic, but if only say 10 people voted, i can't see how it is.

This question isn't just for tompo (assuming he is on the ST), but for any member, and if you can pursuade me otherwise then i'd be happy to join the ST.

In answer to the question - is the ST all a bit matey. You'd have to say yes. My best mate says that the ST appears cliquey and he's a paid up member. Its hard to see how it wouldn't be though. The Trust has been running for some 18 months - I can't remember the exact length it just seems like forever! - in this time roughly the same core group of people have collaborated on most of the projects. Most of us didn't know each other from Adam two years ago but through working together we've got to know each other and its only natural that we're going to look like a close knit group.

Within this theres always been the commitment to welcome others wherever possible. Anyone is welcome to attend one of the open meetings and you'll find that the people there will go out of there way to give you your say, to find out what made you attend, to get to know you and probably to ask what you thought about last Saturdays result too.

In regards to the election. A hard copy of the ST election policy and board membership policy were posted to all members asking for comments or objections. None were received. Following this nomination forms were sent out to all members asking them to run for a board position. Ten were received. Of these nine had been heavily involved in setting up the Trust and the other was from Mike Adams who is now one of the board members without portfolio. At the time Mike was effectively 'new blood'.

As there were ten board positions and each position had one candidate this meant that there were no elections and the decision was put to members at the AGM to either vote in the board as nominated or to not vote in the board. Notices for the AGM were sent along with proxy forms for those unable to attend.

On the night of the AGM. 28 Members turned up and 11 proxy forms were received giving their vote to the chair. The motion to vote in the board as nominated was therefore carried by 39 votes to none.

I think that at the time these votes would have constituted one sixth or one seventh of our membership so you've got to say that thats pretty low. However what more could we have done to make the process any more democratic? All members had input into the election rules, the chance to run for a board position and the chance to vote.

My last point would be to ask, exactly what does one benefit from being a board member of the Trust? Most of those involved put in an unhealthy amount of time working for the Trust. Inevitably its a daily rather than a weekly or monthly commitment and for some failing to balance this has but unwelcome strain on areas of their private lives.

Its against the Trust rules to gain personally as a result of being a board member of the Trust so theres no financial gain.

You also have to face the periodic criticism of everything you've worked so hard to achieve. (Though all constructive criticism is good and forces you to re-examine things and to try to better them).

Those involved do it because first and foremost they're fans of Bristol City and secondly because they believe that the Trust is a vehicle which can positively impact on other fans and the football club. A history of the Trust is currently being compiled and some good things have already been achieved. If you have another look in three years time i'm certain there'll be many more.

For anyone thinking of joining, if you're able to attend an open meeting then this will give you the chance to see what the current issues are, what action the Trust is taking and who the individuals involved are. For anyone wanting a board position, the next elections will be towards the back-end of March.

[Collis]

Fair enough was just interested to here why the Supporters Trust love Steve Lansdown. As far as I was aware they were a trust for the fans not the chairman.

It would be interesting too see a monthly report on what the ST is actually doing. I know that ST's in other clubs have been a failure.

[robins72]

It would be interesting too see a monthly report on what the ST is actually doing. I know that ST's in other clubs have been a failure.

How many have been a failure? I know alot of away fans from different clubs most have a St and most have heavily relied on them to support the club. Ok so alot of them are small clubs who have had financial difficulties and relied on their Sts to help fund a loan signing for example, but even premiership clubs have Supporters Trusts. I would say there were far more successful st's than unsuccessful ones.

[Collis]

How many have been a failure? I know alot of away fans from different clubs most have a St and most have heavily relied on them to support the club. Ok so alot of them are small clubs who have had financial difficulties and relied on their Sts to help fund a loan signing for example, but even premiership clubs have Supporters Trusts. I would say there were far more successful st's than unsuccessful ones.

How can it be a good thing? Most of the BCFC ST members are only members because they get access to the Dolman Hall for £5 per season or whatever it is.

ST's are suppose to speak for the majority, but in this case they speak for the vast minority, end off.

We never needed a ST before, what actually beneficial support is it giving the club?

[robins72]

How can it be a good thing? Most of the BCFC ST members are only members is because they get access to the Dolman Hall for £5 per season or whatever it is.

ST's are suppose to speak for the majority, but in this case they speak for the vast minority end off.

well I'm a member and I don't use the Dolman Bar. If you got a comment to make why don't you discuss it with the St then? SUrely if its for the fans then you can give them suggestions of how to make it better? Just a thought.

[tompo]

It would be interesting too see a monthly report on what the ST is actually doing. I know that ST's in other clubs have been a failure.

You could always read the minutes of meetings.

[Collis]

well I'm a member and I don't use the Dolman Bar. If you got a comment to make why don't you discuss it with the St then? SUrely if its for the fans then you can give them suggestions of how to make it better? Just a thought.

Yes, I can give them suggestions. They can start by not bribing supporters into using the Dolman Hall. Last season I used the Dolman Hall as I was a season ticket holder. This year i must join the ST to do so as I am not a season ticket holder?

I know a substantial amount of people who joined the ST this year just so they could use the Dolman Hall.

They are going to need to reach a higher number of "supporters", because at the moment as i said they only represent the minority of supporters.

[tompo]

How can it be a good thing? Most of the BCFC ST members are only members because they get access to the Dolman Hall for £5 per season or whatever it is.

ST's are suppose to speak for the majority, but in this case they speak for the vast minority, end off.

We never needed a ST before, what actually beneficial support is it giving the club?

I think you are bit confused. Its Supporters Club members who get access to the Dolman Bar for £5 per season not Trust members.

What financial benefit support is the Trust giving to the club? £5k's worth of shares recently purchased that enabled the training facilities at Abbots Leigh to be improved.

[robins72]

Yes, I can give them suggestions. They can start by not bribing supporters into using the Dolman Hall. Last season I used the Dolman Hall as I was a season ticket holder. This year i must join the ST to do so as I am not a season ticket holder?

I know a substantial amount of people who joined the ST this year just so they could use the Dolman Hall.

They are going to need to reach a higher number of "supporters", because at the moment as i said they only represent the minority of supporters.

thats the Supporters Club not the trust. THey have nothing to do with the Supporters club you are getting confused.