Thinking Of Joining The St But..

[jellyred]

Squirrel, short of grabbing your face and force-feeding you type-written pages, or standing next to you and bawling it in your face with a megaphone, I can't see how they could highlight the things they do any better. Face it - you're not looking at it because it's easier to whinge.

What a polite reply.

From what I've read Super Squirrel has put his views across politely and eloquently only for some (word removed on legal advice) posters to spout sh!t like this.

[swindlered]

just a note from reading all the replys from ST members, you say that we just don't understand, that people viewing things from the outside often get things misconcepted and that we need to do our research, but surely the problem is your lack of communication with fans that aren't members. - Hence the opinions of an 'old boys club' (sorry, young girls club for Dolly). - people looking in see the same people doing the same things.

Yes, we can go searching for information, but in the interests of attracting more members, should you be highlighting the things you do better????

A good point. Part of the problem with perceptions is that in some cases people reach a conclusion without doing any kind of research whatsoever. As I stated in one of my earlier threads given that we spend a lot of time working together its only natural that we appear close-knit. If I was to go on one of your works nights out I could come to the conclusion that your workplace was cliquey and an 'old boys club' persists. On closer inspection I might find that you'd spent the last three years in work together and had built up social relationships around this.

We only have a finite amount of man-hours to work with and need to balance our time across all the initiatives we're working on. A Newsletter was distributed at the first home-match and we try to keep the web-site up to date with news and minutes from meetings as well as engaging in dialogue with fans on the forums. I guess its a bit of a catch 22. We could spend more time on education and publicity but then would have less time to spend on activities that benefit the football community. We're currently working on producing a set of FAQ's that will provide basic information on aims, activities and structure. Maybe we should also put out our position on why we're not an old boys club and also detail exactly what work is involved in being a board member. My only worry is that the more we work to actively promote who we are and what we do will then only lead to accusations that those involved are in it for self-publicity, narcissism and egoism. We will never please all of the people all of the time. All that we ask is that people judge us not on what we could do but on what we are doing with the resources we have, that people ask questions when they need answers, criticise where they feel criticism is justified and make up their own opinions based around that.

[Tom Fleuriot]

What a polite reply.

From what I've read Super Squirrel has put his views across politely and eloquently only for some (word removed on legal advice) posters to spout sh!t like this.

It's a sarcastic and heavily exaggerated reply certainly, but I wouldn't say impolite. It's manifest that he isn't looking for the information, as he's complaining it isn't present when it is. And it is, of course, easier to whinge.

How could the Trust make information more readily available, short of forcing it upon people?

[Collis]

Why are you complaining about an extra £5k from people other than yourself going into the club? You appear to be moaning for the sake of it.

And precisely what part of putting money into facilities that will help improve the standard of the players we watch each week do you think supporters don't care about? Surely money that goes directly towards improving training facilities is exactly the sort of thing that will make a difference.

It's hard to take you seriously when you complain that you'd rather see money raised by the ST spent elsewhere when all you have done is lay into the ST and made no effort to either understand what they do or get actively involved in either raising the money or influencing the decision-making about how it should be spent.

If you really care, why not make an effort to go along and try to do something to actively help the club rather than sitting on your backside criticising those who are trying to make a difference. If you can't be arsed to contribute actively in any way, then why should your opinion be valued above those who do?

I am an ST member paying my £1 a month, but I am not part of any 'clique'. On occasions, board members have emailed me or messaged me through this forum and asked me if I would mind helping them in one way or another. When I've been able to, I have. When I've not been able to, I've said so and they've been perfectly understanding. But I've always found them eager to talk about the club and eager to include anyone willing to do something positive, no matter how small. They have not appeared cliquey, self-important or exclusive in any way and it's hard to think how they could either have publicised the ST more, made any more effort to make it democratic or done any more to encourage people to become members or become active within it.

It baffles me why some people seem hell-bent on having a pop at fellow fans who invest time and effort into representing supporters and trying to help improve our club. But as far as I'm concerned, the credibility of armchair criticize can hardly be high if they don't do anything more constructive themselves. It's that sort of negativity and desire that has afflicted and hindered our club for many a year.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and be negative. It's a damned sight harder to make the effort to get involved and try to do something positive. Some things will work, and some won't. But surely our default attitude towards those who do make an effort should be to support and encourage them unless they show themselves unworthy of it, rather than instinctively taking the sort of cynical, negative approach from the word go that is far more likely to discourage people from putting their heads above the parapet and trying to make a difference.

Too be fair, In many of my posts on this thread I have tried to give constructive criticism. I stated that there was a confusion between the ST and the SC which ST members agreed on.

Go back and read my post again. I said, "Although I find the 5k helpful to the club's facilities"

So clearly I am not complaining about the 5k invested in facilities, I am merely disappointed on the distribution of the funds. I think it is unfair to spend money that has been raised by hundreds of supporters, through membership fees and fund raising on something that was ultimately decided by 20 board members calling themselves the "supporters" trust.

I just find that improving training facilities is something that is the responsibility of the club. It would have been nicer to conduct polls or questionnaires through all the members of the ST to see where they would like to see the money invested. In that circumstance it would have benefited the ST substantially as members of the trust would feel more involved and other fans would want to join so that they could voice their opinions as well.

[bh_red]

We're tired of people simply knocking the ST when they've not fully researched our aims &/or activites.

that's the problem some of us feel we have actually looked into the ST information, but without reading EVERYTHING that is we are going to miss out some information, however if we have missed some info, we are made to feel our views are irrelevant because "we've not fully researched"

it's not so much what the trust are doing that seems to be the problem, it seems more like the attitude of Board members to others which is riling people up.

personally though my views on this are well known and I don't think it is fair on anyone for me just to repeat myself time and time again, others feel the same looking at this thread so I'll leave them to make theirs views heard.

[Nibor]

What a polite reply.

From what I've read Super Squirrel has put his views across politely and eloquently only for some (word removed on legal advice) posters to spout sh!t like this.

What's shit about it what Baird is spouting?

It's totally true.

The Trust have IMO done everything humanely possible in terms of communication and publicity.

Here's a far from comprehensive list of the things that I, as a non member, am aware of that I posted earlier in this thread.

What with the "Legends" opening event, the monthly poker nights, the sporting dinner, the t-shirts, the stand at the open day and on match days, the posters, the frequent articles on their site, the matchday programme and in the local press... I could go on.

I think Jay's objection is perfectly valid. Plenty of people in this thread are slating the Trust for things that simply aren't true without even having the courtesy to bother to look at the MASSIVE amount of information to the contrary in the public domain that the Trust has published.

If the Trust hadn't bothered telling people again and again about how they are democratic, if they didn't have a published democratic constitution, if they hadn't gone to lengths to solicit candidates to stand for the board elections, then these "old boys club" accusations might have some sort of basis. Considering that they Trust HAVE done all those things, the only basis such accusations can have is lazy ignorance.

Besides if we want to talk about Old Boys Clubs, there's a vastly stronger case to be made against the Supporter's Club.

that's the problem some of us feel we have actually looked into the ST information, but without reading EVERYTHING that is we are going to miss out some information, however if we have missed some info, we are made to feel our views are irrelevant because "we've not fully researched"

it's not so much what the trust are doing that seems to be the problem, it seems more like the attitude of Board members to others which is riling people up.

personally though my views on this are well known and I don't think it is fair on anyone for me just to repeat myself time and time again, others feel the same looking at this thread so I'll leave them to make theirs views heard.

So... you look into information the Trust publishes.

You don't read ALL of it (fair enough there is a lot).

You (plural you) accuse them of not listening, being an old boys club, being undemocratic etc...

The Trust correct you, and point you to the information you haven't read.

Now they're being ultra defensive and they have a bad attitude.

Sorry but that's just completely illogical.

[Topsham Red]

Squirrel, short of grabbing your face and force-feeding you type-written pages, or standing next to you and bawling it in your face with a megaphone, I can't see how they could highlight the things they do any better. Face it - you're not looking at it because it's easier to whinge.

No baird, i'm just looking at it from someone on the outside looking in, like i said in earlier posts, i am researching into the ST and i will be attending a open meeting in Jan, i'm just putting my point accross that i personally don't think the ST communicate enough. i also find your response quite offensive. i think they could communicate better, just one little point, i think a small thread at the begining of the month on this forum with bullet points, highlighting what they have achieved, could do this easily - but forgive me if i'm wrong i can't see anywhere that this is done. - maybe a sticky at the top of the social forum???

you may say i'm whinging, but i feel that i'm trying to put across a constructive argument. AND posts like yours are why i think alot of people say you get all defensive.

Swindlered, it is certainly a catch 22, but surely if you don't promote yourself more and show the fans more clearly what your achiving, then new members will dry up.

[Jay]

i think they could communicate better, just one little point, i think a small thread at the begining of the month on this forum with bullet points, highlighting what they have achieved, could do this easily

As mentioned in a previous post, this is currently being compiled and will be available on the ST website. We could look at creating a thread on here too but we are also aware that, by doing that, we are likely to accused of shameless self-promotion & using otib purely for our own agenda. This would be incorrect but we've gotten to a point where you can almost predict the critisicm before it comes (sadly).

You mention better communication - do you have any suggestions? We'd be most willing to hear them.

[swindlered]

No baird, i'm just looking at it from someone on the outside looking in, like i said in earlier posts, i am researching into the ST and i will be attending a open meeting in Jan, i'm just putting my point accross that i personally don't think the ST communicate enough. i also find your response quite offensive. i think they could communicate better, just one little point, i think a small thread at the begining of the month on this forum with bullet points, highlighting what they have achieved, could do this easily - but forgive me if i'm wrong i can't see anywhere that this is done. - maybe a sticky at the top of the social forum???

you may say i'm whinging, but i feel that i'm trying to put across a constructive argument. AND posts like yours are why i think alot of people say you get all defensive.

Swindlered, it is certainly a catch 22, but surely if you don't promote yourself more and show the fans more clearly what your achiving, then new members will dry up.

Given where we are two of the main issues the Trust faces are to increase membership numbers as without them we cannot legitimately claim to carry the opinion of all of the fans and to increase the amount of members standing for election and helping out with Trust activities as the more people that are involved the more a Trust can achieve.

Given that the club is in a relatively stable position at the moment it is hard to galvanize fans as by nature any group of people is more likely to come together in a crisis situation. As mentioned before its about balancing achievements and promoting those achievements so that people are aware of what we've done and what is possible given more support. Sometimes the balance is not right and to some extent we'll only find out when people such as yourself level the criticism. Its then down to the Trust to put that right or give a very good reason why things will stay the same.

[Tom Fleuriot]

you may say i'm whinging, but i feel that i'm trying to put across a constructive argument. AND posts like yours are why i think alot of people say you get all defensive.

Swindlered, it is certainly a catch 22, but surely if you don't promote yourself more and show the fans more clearly what your achiving, then new members will dry up.

I'm not a member of the ST.

I apologise if I offended you, I was trying to inject some humour into what I feel is an important point, and clearly did it cack-handedly. But I'd suggest that calling the ST an old boys' network is more offensive and I don't see any personal slurs or suggested actions in my comment.

It's good that you're planning on attending a meeting. But many of your comments seem to have been aggressive. If I've misinterpreted them, I'm sorry for that

(Edit - typos)

[Jay]

So clearly I am not complaining about the 5k invested in facilities, I am merely disappointed on the distribution of the funds. I think it is unfair to spend money that has been raised by hundreds of supporters, through membership fees and fund raising on something that was ultimately decided by 20 board members calling themselves the "supporters" trust.

This isn't quite accurate though it's interesting to read your views. BCST make it very clear on the membership form that all amounts over the value of £2.50 are used for share purchase. These are for new shares and we get to stipulate where this money is used. Are you actually objecting to the fact that the £5K was used towards improving training facilities or would you rather have seen it used on something else? BCST is run by it's members &, whilst there is an elected board in place, all members get a say in what happens with the money.

I just find that improving training facilities is something that is the responsibility of the club. It would have been nicer to conduct polls or questionnaires through all the members of the ST to see where they would like to see the money invested. In that circumstance it would have benefited the ST substantially as members of the trust would feel more involved and other fans would want to join so that they could voice their opinions as well.

We try hard to communicate with our members on such issues. Our database will allow for everyone to be contacted via e-mail or letter and, of course, anyone can attend the open meetings. Please understand that we would also love for more people to be involved. We're desperate for more active members and we also believe that this would help eliminate the undeserved 'clique' banner that some have given us.

[jellyred]

Swindlered - Great posting, constructive and answering questions

Super Squirrel - Posting reasonable questions and getting ridiculous answers.

Nibor - *comment removed by mods due to language*

Baird - Think before you post

Now this is an offensive and aggresive posting...at least for one member

[Collis]

This isn't quite accurate though it's interesting to read your views. BCST make it very clear on the membership form that all amounts over the value of £2.50 are used for share purchase. These are for new shares and we get to stipulate where this money is used. Are you actually objecting to the fact that the £5K was used towards improving training facilities or would you rather have seen it used on something else? BCST is run by it's members &, whilst there is an elected board in place, all members get a say in what happens with the money.

We try hard to communicate with our members on such issues. Our database will allow for everyone to be contacted via e-mail or letter and, of course, anyone can attend the open meetings. Please understand that we would also love for more people to be involved. We're desperate for more active members and we also believe that this would help eliminate the undeserved 'clique' banner that some have given us.

I think that investing the money in the training facilities was a great gesture, just not very groundbreaking, and certainly not enough for supporters like me to stand up and want to be apart of the ST. However, if you had gone down the right channels, conducted better research etc, the decision might have been different. I speak for many fans i know who are confused that you invested the money in something that is the clubs responsibility.

Dare I say it, but its a good example. If you invested the money in making the East End a safe place for home fans to use it would be ground breaking and more people would be inclined to join the ST. It would show that the ST can truly make a difference and speaks for a majority of supporters, not just a minority. (I'm just using the EE as an example, not saying it would have been possible).

[Topsham Red]

I'm not a member of the ST.

I apologise if I offended you, I was trying to inject some humour into what I feel is an important point, and clearly did it cack-handedly. But I'd suggest that calling the ST an old boys' network is more offensive and I don't see any personal slurs or suggested actions in my comment.

It's good that you're planning on attending a meeting. But many of your comments seem to have been aggressive. If I've misinterpreted them, I'm sorry for that

(Edit - typos)

Baird, i was only repeating what Jellyred said about an 'old boys network'. and what was said earlier in the thread from a member of the ST bored that they realise they come across as a bit 'clique'.

Jay, Didn't i already suggest an area you could better your communication by using this forum. - i'm sure you've quoted it?? I'll certainly try and think of some more for you guys.

[bh_red]

Swindlered - Great posting, constructive and answering questions

Super Squirrel - Posting reasonable questions and getting ridiculous answers.

Nibor - *comment removed by mods due to language*

Baird - Think before you post

Now this is an offensive and aggresive posting...at least for one member

think this is fair to be honest! have to say of the postings on here Swindlered has actually spokne alot of sense,

[thatcham red]

Just to add to the newsletter and minutes posting by Tompo.

When we handed the cheque to the club in return for shares, this was done during half-time on the pitch

Every week there is an article from BCST in the Evening post (Greenun)

Every other home game there is an article in the match day programme (Well red)

Every match day there is always BCST board members in the bars and pubs around the ground

Every few months BCST runs high profile events like the Norman Hunter Dinner. We postered all pubs and gave out leaflets at all home games. 2 radio interviews were given on Radio Bristol and GWR.

We have sponsored and distributed balloons for Red & White games

Articles are regularly written and updated on the BCST website, with email links sent to members

Last home game saw BCST host a Q&A session with Steve Lansdown, to which anyone (BCST member or not) could attend

It might be worth looking out for some of the above as they are regularly recurring events. We do not direct mail supporters for many reasons, mostly cost and access to supporters details.

Something we probably should be looking at is more pitch side activity on matchdays. Maybe there are other things that people could suggest?

[Jay]

I think that investing the money in the training facilities was a great gesture, just not very groundbreaking, and certainly not enough for supporters like me to stand up and want to be apart of the ST. However, if you had gone down the right channels, conducted better research etc, the decision might have been different. I speak for many fans i know who are confused that you invested the money in something that is the clubs responsibility.

Dare I say it, but its a good example. If you invested the money in making the East End a safe place for home fans to use it would be ground breaking and more people would be inclined to join the ST. It would show that the ST can truly make a difference. (I'm just using the EE as an example, not saying it would have been possible).

I'm not sure I understand. Your comments seem to contradict themselves and I'll explain why:

You claim that BCST invested money in to something that you feel is the Club's responsibility to maintain but then you propose that we could use share purchase money to help reopen the East End. Is the re-opening of the East End not the Clubs responsibility as well? In fact, what part of BCFC isn't the Club's responsibility?

BCST will try hard to make a positive difference in many aspects of the club. One of the reasons I chose to join the Trust was because of my discontent with certain aspects & areas of the Club I love. Personally, I believe that if you want to see change, you need to be willing to be part of the machine that seeks to make those changes. I'm not trying to be sanctimonious by saying that, I'm just offering my point of view.

[tompo]

I think that investing the money in the training facilities was a great gesture, just not very groundbreaking, and certainly not enough for supporters like me to stand up and want to be apart of the ST. However, if you had gone down the right channels, conducted better research etc, the decision might have been different. I speak for many fans i know who are confused that you invested the money in something that is the clubs responsibility.

Dare I say it, but its a good example. If you invested the money in making the East End a safe place for home fans to use it would be ground breaking and more people would be inclined to join the ST. It would show that the ST can truly make a difference and speaks for a majority of supporters, not just a minority. (I'm just using the EE as an example, not saying it would have been possible).

Now I'm totally confused.

You say that improving the training facilities should be the responsibility of the club and then suggest that the money should have been spent on making the East End a safe place for home fans. Surely, following your logic, that should also come under the category of being the club's responsibility.

Perhaps you could explain how the ST's share money could have been used on the East End, particularly taking into acount the club's current stance?

[Collis]

I'm not sure I understand. Your comments seem to contradict themselves and I'll explain why:

You claim that BCST invested money in to something that you feel is the Club's responsibility to maintain but then you propose that we could use share purchase money to help reopen the East End. Is the re-opening of the East End not the Clubs responsibility as well? In fact, what part of BCFC isn't the Club's responsibility?

BCST will try hard to make a positive difference in many aspects of the club. On of the reasons I chose to join the Trust was because of my discontent with certain aspects & areas of the Club I love. Personally, I believe that if you want to see change, you need to be willing to be part of the machine that seeks to help make those changes. I'm not trying to be sanctimonious by saying that, I'm just offering my point of view.

The East End is something the supporters and the club disagree on. Agreed, the East End is the clubs responsibility, but they are doing nothing about it! So I don't think you can compare it too something more trivial like the training ground.

Maybe if you take the EE out of the equation and apply it too anything else that the club and fans disagree on you will understand my point. The ST should be something that speaks on behalf of the fans (which in many situations it does) and invests money raised into something that the fans care about. I didn't know there was anything wrong with our training ground before money was invested?

Perhaps you could explain how the ST's share money could have been used on the East End, particularly taking into acount the club's current stance?

No, I stated in my post that the EE was an example. I understand that there is no real solution to the the EE debate. I could have used any example, e.g catering, stewarding.

[Jay]

The East End is something the supporters and the club disagree on. Agreed, the East End is the clubs responsibility, but they are doing nothing about it! So I don't think you can compare it too something more trivial like the training ground.

Ok. Two points here....

1) The East End is something that some supporters and the club disagree on. I too would like to see it opened but considering the current club stance on the EE (& as Tompo has already asked), could you explain how the ST's share money could have been used on the East End?

2) Calling the improvements made to the training ground 'trivial' seems unfair. Surely this is a very integral section of the Club?

Maybe if you take the EE out of the equation and apply it too anything else that the club and fans disagree on you will understand my point. The ST should be something that speaks on behalf of the fans (which in many situations it does) and invests money raised into something that the fans care about. I didn't know there was anything wrong with our training ground before money was invested?

By implication, are you suggesting that the fans don't care about the training facilities that, in my opinion, may have an effect on how we perform on the pitch? Also, this won't be the last time BCST will invest money in to the Club and, when the time comes, we'll take on board all reasonable suggestions of where to invest this money.

[City Rocker]

i'm just putting my point accross that i personally don't think the ST communicate enough.

I don't think you could be more wrong - it seems to me the Trust have bent over backwards to be open and transparent and to communicate their aims, as you would expect of an organisation that is looking to recruit new members. I also reckon their representatives have been incredibly diplomatic and tolerant in the face of some very ignorant critisism from some quarters.

I don't know and have never met (as far as I know) any ST board members, neither do I have any interest in joining any so-called old boys club. But, having been presented with their agenda (without having to go looking for it), I joined up because I supported their aims. It was easy!

[Collis]

Ok. Two points here....

1) The East End is something that some supporters and the club disagree on. I too would like to see it opened but considering the current club stance on the EE (& as Tompo has already asked), could you explain how the ST's share money could have been used on the East End?

2) Calling the improvements made to the training ground 'trivial' seems unfair. Surely this is a very integral section of the Club?

It is important, but when has it ever been an issue? I understand even before the money was invested, our training facilities were arguably the best in the league and pushing for Championship/Premiership standard.

By implication, are you suggesting that the fans don't care about the training facilities that, in my opinion, have an effect on how we perform on the pitch? Also, this won't be the last time BCST will invest money in to the Club and, when the time comes, we'll take on board all reasonable suggestions of where to invest this money.

I am not suggesting that fans don't care about training facilities. But it is not something that is debated in the terraces is it, "Have you seen the state of our training facilities?, they are a disgrace!" Its more like, "My bloody cheese burger is cold!" or, "When are they going to update these crappy seats in the Dolman."

I'm probably going to leave this thread now because we are going around in circles! However, I hope my point is clear.

[Tom Fleuriot]

It is important, but when has it ever been an issue? I understand even before the money was invested, our training facilities were arguably the best in the league and pushing for Championship/Premiership standard.

I am not suggesting that fans don't care about training facilities. But it is not something that is debated in the terraces is it, "Have you seen the state of our training facilities?, they are a disgrace!" Its more like, "My bloody cheese burger is cold!" or, "When are they going to update these crappy seats in the Dolman."

I'm probably going to leave this thread now because we are going around in circles! However, I hope my point is clear.

As I understand it, your point is that the Trust should be looking at areas where there is a clear disagreement between the board and fans, and contributing money to overcome the board's objections rather than giving to areas where the club just needs more cash.

I think this is certainly a more inspiring and dynamic idea, but I wonder whether it's possible without first getting a working relationship going by funding better training facilities and the like. Do you think there would be a danger that this approach would come across to the board as too antagonistic, and burn bridges? (not the player - he's at Hull)

[tompo]

It is important, but when has it ever been an issue? I understand even before the money was invested, our training facilities were arguably the best in the league and pushing for Championship/Premiership standard.

I am not suggesting that fans don't care about training facilities. But it is not something that is debated in the terraces is it, "Have you seen the state of our training facilities?, they are a disgrace!" Its more like, "My bloody cheese burger is cold!" or, "When are they going to update these crappy seats in the Dolman."

I'm probably going to leave this thread now because we are going around in circles! However, I hope my point is clear.

Before you go.

You may not have known there was anything wrong with the facilities at the training ground but the manager did and asked for improvements to be made.

Now I reckon that if improving the training facilities which may lead to improved morale for the players which may lead to improved performance on the pitch which may lead to promotion then that £5k will have been well spent. Surely the fans care about that?

[Jay]

It is important, but when has it ever been an issue? I understand even before the money was invested, our training facilities were arguably the best in the league and pushing for Championship/Premiership standard.

I am not suggesting that fans don't care about training facilities. But it is not something that is debated in the terraces is it, "Have you seen the state of our training facilities?, they are a disgrace!" Its more like, "My bloody cheese burger is cold!" or, "When are they going to update these crappy seats in the Dolman."

I'm probably going to leave this thread now because we are going around in circles! However, I hope my point is clear.

There are so many ways of looking at this & it easy to around in circles. We will continue to collect data & opinions where we can in order to help represent fans of BCFC. Everyone has their priorities & things that they believe to be important to them.

Just a thought.....if given the choice, would you rather see the team do well on the pitch or fans receive a higher quality of catering? I'm not trying to create a reaction by asking this, I'm just thinking that the money recently invested can arguably help with the long term development of the club, players & performance. Replacing poor wooden seating in the Dolman is an issue for some but would they be willing to continue sitting there in exchange for better results? No matter how the money is used, there will still be people objecting to it's allocation as they feel that there are more important areas in which to spend it. It's also worth saying that I'm not trying to undermine or dismiss any opinions here as we are aware that people are unhappy with things like catering, seating, lack of CJS away travel, the East End, ticket prices & much more.

[jellyred]

Just had an idea for getting through to more fans that are unable to regularly attend Ashton Gate like myself.

Could you ask the powers that be to have a note about the Trust put onto one of their many email flyers that get sent out? Surely if the club see the Trust as such a positive thing they would be happy to oblige.

[Jay]

Just had an idea for getting through to more fans that are unable to regularly attend Ashton Gate like myself.

Could you ask the powers that be to have a note about the Trust put onto one of their many email flyers that get sent out? Surely if the club see the Trust as such a positive thing they would be happy to oblige.

If you would care to pass on your details, we'd be most willing to keep you informed as we send out a regular e-mail newsletter. We have a number of people on a 'keep me informed' list that are not BCST members but remain open & interested in our activites. We know that this doesn't truly address your proposal & we'll take it on board. Ultimately it's up to the club as to whether they will allow this but you can but ask...

It's worth mentioning that BCFC do have a link to the Trust website on their website (which we are most grateful for).

[Dave L]

I don't think you could be more wrong - it seems to me the Trust have bent over backwards to be open and transparent and to communicate their aims, as you would expect of an organisation that is looking to recruit new members. I also reckon their representatives have been incredibly diplomatic and tolerant in the face of some very ignorant critisism from some quarters.

having been presented with their agenda (without having to go looking for it), I joined up because I supported their aims. It was easy!

Would just like to echo City Rocker's thoughts here. I am a member of the ST for the same reasons as him - I support their aims, and applaud anyone with the drive, initiative and courage to get off their arse and do something to try and improve things.

Normally I tend to be a bit of a 'doer' - when I get involved in something I like to get very involved. I've taken a back seat as far as the ST is concerned as I'm already pretty busy with work and family obligations that don't give me much spare time. And I have to say, I'm glad that I didn't stick my head over the parapet, having read some of the unfair criticism that hard working, honest ST board members are attracting from certain quarters.

The sad fact is - and I know this from experience - that there will always be people who aren't interested in engaging in a democratic process, working to effect change or having an open debate about how best to mould and change an organistaion. Instead they find it much easier to sit outside and criticise, often based on innacurate information or a lack of understanding of the issues - an understanding that would actually be much improved if they took the time to join, listen to other people's views and enter into the debate.

This isn't to say that the ST should be above criticism, and my impression has been that people such as Tompo, Jay and Thatcham Red actually welcome people's views and opinions, even critical ones, providing they are fair and accurate. But I think they have shown remarkable tolerance in the face of some very ill-informed and subjective sniping.

[Nibor]

Nibor - *comment removed by mods due to language*

Baird - Think before you post

Now this is an offensive and aggresive posting...at least for one member

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to read it. What a pity, I'm sure it was very entertaining and witty like most of your posts...

Perhaps you should take the advice you give to Baird.

[jellyred]

Nibor,

I don't regret putting what I did, as it is an opinion I have formed over the time I have been reading this forum and I'm afraid I just snapped and had to put something after your constant moaning and inability to read other posters responses before jumping in with the usual 'I'm right you're wrong and quite obviously better than you' (yes I am paraphrasing and possibly using some artistic licence) post.

Obviously you didn't read any of my other posts on here as they have been mostly polite and asking reasonable questions regarding the ST.