Thinking Of Joining The St But..

[Guest North Street]

Dunno if you're the only one but I certainly didn't.

It was a pity to lose the Ask SteveL forum but it was massively abused IMO.

Genuine, new questions were few and far between and IMO they were answered (in the main) with as much detail as possible within the bounds of confidentiality. If it had been used sensibly I doubt it would have been canned or that otib would have been palmed off on the ST.

I did use this facility on three occassions nibor at no time was i abusive or hopefully ranting. Lets just say i am still waiting for my reply despite also sending several e mails to City!

[Nibor]

I did use this facility on three occassions nibor at no time was i abusive or hopefully ranting. Lets just say i am still waiting for my reply despite also sending several e mails to City!

If you don't mind me asking, what were the questions you were asking about?

[Guest North Street]

If you don't mind me asking, what were the questions you were asking about?

A certain cow shed but it does make a mockery of the clubs charter!

[Nibor]

A certain cow shed but it does make a mockery of the clubs charter!

I think those probably came under the heading of "questions that have already been answered".

I agree that the East End could do with being opened but whatever your view on it you can't really say that SL hasn't answered that question again and again and again and again... or blame him for not answering it every week on the forum.

[Guest North Street]

I think those probably came under the heading of "questions that have already been answered".

I agree that the East End could do with being opened but whatever your view on it you can't really say that SL hasn't answered that question again and again and again and again... or blame him for not answering it every week on the forum.

He did not answer any questions at all on that topic for months & months on end despite some of them being very pertinent and regarding costs particularly in view of later remarks made by City. Simply not good enough as even e mails on the topic were ignored!

[lukejones2]

No that is fair enough LJPWorld - I understand now. The ST did indeed consider whether an overdraft would be needed to cover short term cashflow difficulties. It was decided subsequently that there was no requirement for an overdraft provided we were able to manage supplier payments and customer collections which we were able to do.

The cashflow issue came from the Norman Hunter dinner which required payment in advance for the meals etc (the biggest cost) whereas of course with corporate customers especially, we were having to wait for their payments.

You will be pleased to note that no overdraft was needed, the final large supplier payments were posted today and we have a healthy looking bank balance even after that.

[Dolman Block B]

No that is fair enough LJPWorld - I understand now. The ST did indeed consider whether an overdraft would be needed to cover short term cashflow difficulties. It was decided subsequently that there was no requirement for an overdraft provided we were able to manage supplier payments and customer collections which we were able to do.

The cashflow issue came from the Norman Hunter dinner which required payment in advance for the meals etc (the biggest cost) whereas of course with corporate customers especially, we were having to wait for their payments.

You will be pleased to note that no overdraft was needed, the final large supplier payments were posted today and we have a healthy looking bank balance even after that.

Luke, don't know if you or anyone else have been asked this, but whats S Lansdown honest views about the Supporters Trust?

He may have already commented on it but ive not heard.

[Dollymarie]

Yeah, but the 5k wasn't raised by just membership fees surely?

No. Our membership fees have earned over 5k by quite a margin. A small proportion of this is required for unavoidable admin/expenses etc but we do also have other sources of funding such as donations, money earnt through events such as raffles, the Launch Night etc.

All donations received specifically for the purpose of share purchase (ie over and above £2.50 per month) was used in the share purchase.

[lukejones2]

Luke, don't know if you or anyone else have been asked this, but whats S Lansdown honest views about the Supporters Trust?

He may have already commented on it but ive not heard.

Hi

Yes he has spoken about the Trust before, he spoke at our launhc night (if I remember correctly) and he also mentioned us at the AGM. It is my understanding that he is comfortable with the principle of the fans owning more of the club, he is keen on growing the BCFC brand as much as possible and feels that the Trust will help and he is aware that we will take viewpoints which disagree with his that we will need to discuss. To date he has been supportive and helpful on the vast majority of things.

Luke

[Dolman Block B]

Hi

Yes he has spoken about the Trust before, he spoke at our launhc night (if I remember correctly) and he also mentioned us at the AGM. It is my understanding that he is comfortable with the principle of the fans owning more of the club, he is keen on growing the BCFC brand as much as possible and feels that the Trust will help and he is aware that we will take viewpoints which disagree with his that we will need to discuss. To date he has been supportive and helpful on the vast majority of things.

Luke

Thats good Luke, he is after all at the helm of the club and ultimatley will have the last say

[thatcham red]

If they invited me, I would be more then happy to express my views to them in person.

£12 a year to express my opinion? Maybe if i knew it would make a difference,

I'd be happy to meet with you in person mate. I've taken over temporarily from Miles as acting Chair. I don't live in Bristol, but I'm generally around to meet up before games. I'll be down on Saturday for Doncaster and will be at Yeovil. I make it to most of the meetings too. In truth, the best way to understand more about the Trust is to come to one of the open meetings.

By the way, I welcome your posts. This sort of debate helps those of us involved with the running of the Trust understand where we need to focus attention. We need more people to express opinions. I take on board particulalry the comments about the confusion between the 2 supporter groups. We've worked really hard on promoting the Trust. Clearly the message didn't yet get through to everyone

[bh_red]

tried to keep out of this thread as I've spoken down about the ST before and have been told basically by various board members to keep my nose out if I don't like what they are doing and to keep my nose out of other discussions such as the Orj incident, who I still back in his views.

Just reading this thread it does seem that a fair few are extremly defensive about their trust and don't like people asking serious questions?

such as question about Overdraft facilites receiving ultra defensive responses to someone who had actually just done his research and had a valid view, personally find the view that other members of the ST can be very patronising to "us normal fans" who basically if we don't like what we have to say, basically say we don't know what we are talking about and to look on the website?

personally I have to look at the current aims of the trust and quite simply they seem to be failing them and not meeting their goals?

how many members do they have? how many have the gained SINCE the opening night event? how many have they lost? do they have anywhere near 1000 members yet? how are they doing in their quest to buy 25k in shares? are they going to be having monthly meetings with SL? alot of this doesn't seem to be going on or does it?

also talk of open meetings and various votes and what have you? do these actually achieve anything? what actually happens at these meetings? there doesn't seem much mentioned about them on their website, however they do mention their board meetings basically with the same 8-12 people making all the decisions, it seems to be a bit of a closed shop in that circumstance where the same people much the decisions, it's already been suggested that there is a case of what the ST board want and what the rest of the members think........very much them and us

who knows? do the board members feel they are meeting their goals, personally i don't think so

[M_Porter]

No that is fair enough LJPWorld - I understand now. The ST did indeed consider whether an overdraft would be needed to cover short term cashflow difficulties. It was decided subsequently that there was no requirement for an overdraft provided we were able to manage supplier payments and customer collections which we were able to do.

The cashflow issue came from the Norman Hunter dinner which required payment in advance for the meals etc (the biggest cost) whereas of course with corporate customers especially, we were having to wait for their payments.

You will be pleased to note that no overdraft was needed, the final large supplier payments were posted today and we have a healthy looking bank balance even after that.

Thank you Luke That explains it all.

Just a tad concerned when i read it,although no one from the trust likes me anymore i still believe in it!

[Jay]

tried to keep out of this thread as I've spoken down about the ST before and have been told basically by various board members to keep my nose out if I don't like what they are doing and to keep my nose out of other discussions such as the Orj incident, who I still back in his views.

This is rubbish. BCST openly invites constructive criticism. I struggle to believe that anyone has told you to stay out of things because of you not liking the way things are run. If, however, you are refering to this forum with your comments, then it may be that you have been advised that you are not forced to read anything you don't want, nor are your forced to use this place if you would prefer not to. It's worth saying that that is not a defensive or even hostile remark but simply a fact.

Just reading this thread it does seem that a fair few are extremly defensive about their trust and don't like people asking serious questions?

such as question about Overdraft facilites receiving ultra defensive responses to someone who had actually just done his research and had a valid view, personally find the view that other members of the ST can be very patronising to "us normal fans" who basically if we don't like what we have to say, basically say we don't know what we are talking about and to look on the website?

Considering your current dislike for BCST, it would seem that you are going to read responses in the way you want to to read them. LJP asked a perfectly valid question & received a perfectly valid reply. Now, as a thought, if LJP had maybe elaborated in his post & said something along the lines of "I've taken the time to read over the minutes from recent BCST meetings and noticed that the possibility of an overdraft was discussed - why is this?", then maybe it would have got a more detailed answer from Luke. I'm not criticizin either party here but simply offering a perspective. Furthermore, the question was answered fully further down the thread. I fail to detect any patronising comments from either party.

personally I have to look at the current aims of the trust and quite simply they seem to be failing them and not meeting their goals?

how many members do they have?

Maybe our membership secretary will be able exactly but currently over 320 - it averages at about 1 new sign up per day.

how many have the gained SINCE the opening night event?

Just under 300.

how many have they lost?

Again, one for the membership secretary but my guess is about 2 (including you)

do they have anywhere near 1000 members yet?

Not yet but we are still working hard to achieve this.

how are they doing in their quest to buy 25k in shares?

We've recently bought the first £5000 and will look at purchasing more in the near future.

are they going to be having monthly meetings with SL?

Yes, this is already in place. We received an official invitation from SL/BCFC and an ST Board member is now able to attend. We don't (yet) have any voting power but we are in a position to help voice fans' opinions (regardless of BCST membership)

alot of this doesn't seem to be going on or does it?

See answers above. Maybe what you are trying to highlight here is the need for stronger, clearer & more regular comminucation from BCST?

also talk of open meetings and various votes and what have you? do these actually achieve anything? what actually happens at these meetings? there doesn't seem much mentioned about them on their website

Come along. You don't need to be a member. These meetings cover a number of topics that are discussed. Anyone can turn up and voice their opinion on any topic. The meetings are diplomatic and constructive. Occasionally things need to be vote upon but that's democracy at work IMO.

however they do mention their board meetings basically with the same 8-12 people making all the decisions, it seems to be a bit of a closed shop in that circumstance where the same people much the decisions, it's already been suggested that there is a case of what the ST board want and what the rest of the members think........very much them and us

BCST is a registered company and bound by a constitution. A Board had to be elected for the Trust to continue. Any member can stand for election. WIth regards to decision making, it's a matter of trust. The people in Board positions were elected in to those positions by the members of BCST. As a suggestion, why don't you run for a position next March? If you don't like the way the Trust is currently heading then do something about it. The character of the Trust will change/evolve over the years as people come and go. For example: We've recently lost Miles as Chair so Vice Chiar Stu Rogers has stepped in as 'acting' Chair until the next AGM. Some people have considered this to be the begining of the end, whereas others simply see it as a phase in the building history of BCST. Personally, I have great faith in Stu and all the other board members. A year ago, I didn't know any of them but now I consider most of them to be a friend. We don't all see eye to eye and whilst you claim that it's the same 8-12 people making the decisions, the decisions are rarly unanimous.

do the board members feel they are meeting their goals, personally i don't think so

Forgive the obvious phrase here but 'Rome wasn't built in a day'. Goals are there to be achieved. We can only work as quick as our time allows us. Once again I'll remind you that ALL BCST members that are actively involved in the running of their Trust give their time for free. It's bloody hard work too. No matter how hard we try to get more people on board to help out, apathy still seems to rule. I can't even begin to decribe just how much time & commitment some people put in and my comments won't do them enough justice.

Whilst it's most clear that you are unhappy with the current state of BCST, so why not try & do something positive to change it? IF you like the underlying principles but have issues with certain areas or people, then come along & make your voice be heard. This forum is a good vehicle for communicating ideas but it's not the only one. Feel free to pop along to a meeting or come see us in the DEH before a match.

Thanks for your comments.

[thatcham red]

BH Red

Some Trusts around the country choose not to rely on internet forums, for the simple reason that so much of what is said can be easily mis-interpreted. I think there are some good examples in this thread.

The other reason is that in trying to respond to genuine questions, it lays them open to criticism of being defensive. Catch 22. Do we try and answer the questions or hide? I think you'll agree that this Trust is being as open and transparent as possible. By allowing access to all information we are in turn encouraging questions, which need to be answered.

I think Jay has provided a robust and fair response to your questions. You may disagree and I suspect will take issue with it. This is why I generally choose to meet people face to face and discuss any particular issues they have about the Trust. So, I extend to you the same invitation as I have for Collis to meet up either at a Trust meeting or before a game. Failing that, we can simply keep extending this thread and probably not come to any logical conclusion

[jellyred]

As I started the thred I'll post what I think to be the main problem with apathy and how the ST is viewed.

To me whilst it is a noble and good thing to set up and give your own time for free to run a supporters trust for any club. The feeling I have for the BCFC one is that it seems like it was setup by a selection of friends and their associates (fine to begin with) and it is now run by these people without any kind of new, or current members really having a voice as much as you say everyone has. Even though people may be free to come along to the meetings etc it looks very much like a kind of Old Boys Club and as such is something I, for one, would not (currently) like to be a part of.

And yes, I do understand that decisions need to be taken by some kind of elected board and not everything can be put out to a public vote.

[Jay]

As I started the thred I'll post what I think to be the main problem with apathy and how the ST is viewed.

To me whilst it is a noble and good thing to set up and give your own time for free to run a supporters trust for any club. The feeling I have for the BCFC one is that it seems like it was setup by a selection of friends and their associates (fine to begin with) and it is now run by these people without any kind of new, or current members really having a voice as much as you say everyone has. Even though people may be free to come along to the meetings etc it looks very much like a kind of Old Boys Club and as such is something I, for one, would not (currently) like to be a part of.

And yes, I do understand that decisions need to be taken by some kind of elected board and not everything can be put out to a public vote.

Whilst your comments are appreciated, they are arguably highlighting a misconception. Most of the current board & working party were not friends prior to the setting up of the Trust. I turned up on my own, not knowing anyone and many have done the same. All we ask is that you give it a go rather than pass judgement without fair trial. You never know, you might just like some of us and gain a few more friends in the process. Everyone is welcome.

[Nibor]

From the obviously unfounded and quite unreasonable criticism it's pretty obvious that bh_red and his friend ashtonsmate have something against the Trust. I'm interested to know why.

[Dollymarie]

As it looks very much like a kind of Old Boys Club

Last time I checked I wasnt a boy, nor old.

There are other women who attend as well.

It wasnt set up by a group of mates, none of us knew eachother before Miles (I'm speaking for myself here but I think this is how most of the board found out about the trust) posted a message on OTIB saying that a meeting was being held with a view to setting up a Supporters Trust, and if ANYBODY wanted to come along they could. So I did, and I was only one of 2 women in a room containing about 15-20 men. I didnt know anybody else there, yet I went along and joined in the discussion, and it soon became clear that this was something I wanted to be a part of.

I havent looked back since, and although it is bloody hard work sometimes, mainly due to us all having full time jobs and other commitments, I don't regret getting involved for a minute. I am the only female board member, but again this is something that does not bother me, as women have as an important role to play, not only in football, but also in Supporters Trusts.

[jellyred]

Last time I checked I wasnt a boy, nor old.

Are you deliberatley pedantic or just ignorant.

'Old Boys Club' is merely a turn of phrase.

I certainly don't knock the amount of free time and effort you guys put in.

[Dollymarie]

Are you deliberatley pedantic or just ignorant.

'Old Boys Club' is merely a turn of phrase.

I certainly don't knock the amount of free time and effort you guys put in.

Maybe I'm just a bit weary of people making judgments (not yourself necessarily) about something that myself and many others have worked bloody hard on for over a year now, when they don't actually want to turn up to a meeting and see what really goes on. I'm sorry if I upset you, but I just get a bit tired of the ST bashing that goes on on here sometimes.

[RedTop]

Although I find the 5k helpful to the club's facilities, I also recognise that SL and the board of directors could have easily found that 5k. What difference has it really made?

I would rather have seen that money invested in the East End, or something "the supporters" really care about.

Why are you complaining about an extra £5k from people other than yourself going into the club? You appear to be moaning for the sake of it.

And precisely what part of putting money into facilities that will help improve the standard of the players we watch each week do you think supporters don't care about? Surely money that goes directly towards improving training facilities is exactly the sort of thing that will make a difference.

It's hard to take you seriously when you complain that you'd rather see money raised by the ST spent elsewhere when all you have done is lay into the ST and made no effort to either understand what they do or get actively involved in either raising the money or influencing the decision-making about how it should be spent.

If you really care, why not make an effort to go along and try to do something to actively help the club rather than sitting on your backside criticising those who are trying to make a difference. If you can't be arsed to contribute actively in any way, then why should your opinion be valued above those who do?

I am an ST member paying my £1 a month, but I am not part of any 'clique'. On occasions, board members have emailed me or messaged me through this forum and asked me if I would mind helping them in one way or another. When I've been able to, I have. When I've not been able to, I've said so and they've been perfectly understanding. But I've always found them eager to talk about the club and eager to include anyone willing to do something positive, no matter how small. They have not appeared cliquey, self-important or exclusive in any way and it's hard to think how they could either have publicised the ST more, made any more effort to make it democratic or done any more to encourage people to become members or become active within it.

It baffles me why some people seem hell-bent on having a pop at fellow fans who invest time and effort into representing supporters and trying to help improve our club. But as far as I'm concerned, the credibility of armchair criticize can hardly be high if they don't do anything more constructive themselves. It's that sort of negativity and desire that has afflicted and hindered our club for many a year.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and be negative. It's a damned sight harder to make the effort to get involved and try to do something positive. Some things will work, and some won't. But surely our default attitude towards those who do make an effort should be to support and encourage them unless they show themselves unworthy of it, rather than instinctively taking the sort of cynical, negative approach from the word go that is far more likely to discourage people from putting their heads above the parapet and trying to make a difference.

[smp]

I just get a bit tired of the ST bashing that goes on on here sometimes.

best get used to it love

[Jay]

best get used to it love

I feel that it's fair to say that all active members of BCST are used to it and, whilst I don't wish to answer on DollyMarie's behalf, I believe that her frustration is the same one that we all have: We're tired of people simply knocking the ST when they've not fully researched our aims &/or activites. Constructive criticism is fine but people slating us for no real reason serves little purpose.

[smp]

I feel that it's fair to say that all active members of BCST are used to it and, whilst I don't wish to answer on DollyMarie's behalf, I believe that her frustration is the same one that we all have: We're tired of people simply knocking the ST when they've not fully researched our aims &/or activites. Constructive criticism is fine but people slating us for no real reason serves little purpose.

wouldn't say it was for no real reason.

there have been many threads on this site (some of which have been closed and deleted) which give detailed reasons why people are slating you. Perhaps you are just not listening to the fans you are so-say representing.

[Topsham Red]

just a note from reading all the replys from ST members, you say that we just don't understand, that people viewing things from the outside often get things misconcepted and that we need to do our research, but surely the problem is your lack of communication with fans that aren't members. - Hence the opinions of an 'old boys club' (sorry, young girls club for Dolly). - people looking in see the same people doing the same things.

Yes, we can go searching for information, but in the interests of attracting more members, should you be highlighting the things you do better????

[Jay]

wouldn't say it was for no real reason.

there have been many threads on this site (some of which have been closed and deleted) which give detailed reasons why people are slating you. Perhaps you are just not listening to the fans you are so-say representing.

Again, another misconception. It would certainly seem that there are some that choose to knock BCST for the fun of it. I agree that there have been threads on this site in which people have given detailed regarding why they slate us but that, in my opinion, is constuctive criticism. We've no problem if people wish to point out flaws or ways in which they feel things could be improved.

Any threads that have been deleted or closed would be for reasons other than criticism of BCST. As previously metioned in one of my posts in this thread, there are 6 non-BCST mods on this who can prevent topics being locked or deleted. To claim that BCST have purposely closed or deleted threads to serve their own purposes is incorrect.

[tompo]

just a note from reading all the replys from ST members, you say that we just don't understand, that people viewing things from the outside often get things misconcepted and that we need to do our research, but surely the problem is your lack of communication with fans that aren't members. - Hence the opinions of an 'old boys club' (sorry, young girls club for Dolly). - people looking in see the same people doing the same things.

Yes, we can go searching for information, but in the interests of attracting more members, should you be highlighting the things you do better????

How about if we produced a newsletter and distributed it to fans free of charge at a home game.

Something like this perhaps?

Or how about if we put the minutes of our meetings on our website?

[Jay]

just a note from reading all the replys from ST members, you say that we just don't understand, that people viewing things from the outside often get things misconcepted and that we need to do our research, but surely the problem is your lack of communication with fans that aren't members. - Hence the opinions of an 'old boys club' (sorry, young girls club for Dolly). - people looking in see the same people doing the same things.

Yes, we can go searching for information, but in the interests of attracting more members, should you be highlighting the things you do better????

Believe us when we say that we are trying to make the info widely available. Whilst we know that some people will take the bull by the horns & look in to something that may interest them, we are also aware that you need to put things in some people's laps before they will pay attention & give it some consideration.

Tompo has highlighted two very good examples of how we've communicated to fans of BCFC in recent times. If you have any ideas or suggestions regarding how you would like to see communication from BCST improved to its members and non-members alike, please let us know.

For what it is worth, we are currently compiling a list of achievements that will be made available for all to see.

Thanks for the comments

[Tom Fleuriot]

just a note from reading all the replys from ST members, you say that we just don't understand, that people viewing things from the outside often get things misconcepted and that we need to do our research, but surely the problem is your lack of communication with fans that aren't members. - Hence the opinions of an 'old boys club' (sorry, young girls club for Dolly). - people looking in see the same people doing the same things.

Yes, we can go searching for information, but in the interests of attracting more members, should you be highlighting the things you do better????

Squirrel, short of grabbing your face and force-feeding you type-written pages, or standing next to you and bawling it in your face with a megaphone, I can't see how they could highlight the things they do any better. Face it - you're not looking at it because it's easier to whinge.