SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 26, 2015 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Some of you may have missed the explanation below given by David Lloyd in answer to a fan asking why his flag was removed by stewards from the front of the Dolman on Sunday (see Q&A section): Your flag contained the word 'Ultras" and was prominently displayed, on national television, in front of 8 million people. There is a proven and established connection between some European Ultra groups and far right extremism, racism, fascism and organised hooliganism. BCFC wants to make it very clear that it rejects any such association, and that those in favour of using violence in the name of Bristol City FC are not wanted at Ashton Gate. They bring shame on the club and our City. I am sure that the vast majority of ours supporters will agree with this. I am sure this reply will generate a long and passionate response from some supporters, claiming that the UK Ultra scene has no connection with these groups, and that they are more about generating passionate support, flags, banners, atmosphere etc. This may well be the case, but the association is still there in most people's minds and is not one we welcome. Flags are welcome, as is vocal and passionate support, but not the word Ultras. This is not about 'suits' versus the people. It's about BCFC (and Bristol Sport) making a very clear statement about its values. We are a family club who welcome everyone to Ashton Gate, young and old, and encourages support in all its varied forms, providing it stays within the law. For that reason, the word 'Ultras' has no place at Ashton Gate. I look forward to the ensuing debate. A sensible approach or sanitisation of football gone made? You'll guess from the thread title which camp I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Some of you may have missed the explanation below given by David Lloyd in answer to a fan asking why his flag was removed by stewards from the front of the Dolman on Sunday (see Q&A section): Your flag contained the word 'Ultras" and was prominently displayed, on national television, in front of 8 million people. There is a proven and established connection between some European Ultra groups and far right extremism, racism, fascism and organised hooliganism. BCFC wants to make it very clear that it rejects any such association, and that those in favour of using violence in the name of Bristol City FC are not wanted at Ashton Gate. They bring shame on the club and our City. I am sure that the vast majority of ours supporters will agree with this. I am sure this reply will generate a long and passionate response from some supporters, claiming that the UK Ultra scene has no connection with these groups, and that they are more about generating passionate support, flags, banners, atmosphere etc. This may well be the case, but the association is still there in most people's minds and is not one we welcome. Flags are welcome, as is vocal and passionate support, but not the word Ultras. This is not about 'suits' versus the people. It's about BCFC (and Bristol Sport) making a very clear statement about its values. We are a family club who welcome everyone to Ashton Gate, young and old, and encourages support in all its varied forms, providing it stays within the law. For that reason, the word 'Ultras' has no place at Ashton Gate. I look forward to the ensuing debate. A sensible approach or sanitisation of football gone made? You'll guess from the thread title which camp I'm in. the highlighted bit, the word ultra isn't offensive, I think of passion first then the far right only after you've read up about it, Complete and utter shit call from the club, its a flag it's been on display for a long time in the east end with out problems, There is more offensive chanting then there is in this one flag, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1984 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Ducking ridiculous. Club really is ducking pathetic sometimes. May I suggest they get on the blower to their counterparts at palace ASAP as they need a ducking huge reality check. You pathetic that's at the top of my club are a part of the problem in football and make it so ducking hard to support bcfc. The sooner some of you get off your holy high ducking horses and duck off the better Ducking pathetic East end ultras were praised by Steve L on the pitch last season you hypocrite toss pots. I'm done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Ducking ridiculous. Club really is ducking pathetic sometimes. May I suggest they get on the blower to their counterparts at palace ASAP as they need a ducking huge reality check. You pathetic that's at the top of my club are a part of the problem in football and make it so ducking hard to support bcfc. The sooner some of you get off your holy high ducking horses and duck off the better Ducking pathetic East end ultras were praised by Steve L on the pitch last season you hypocrite toss pots.I'm done dank duck dor dat, dow duck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Some of you may have missed the explanation below given by David Lloyd in answer to a fan asking why his flag was removed by stewards from the front of the Dolman on Sunday (see Q&A section): Your flag contained the word 'Ultras" and was prominently displayed, on national television, in front of 8 million people. There is a proven and established connection between some European Ultra groups and far right extremism, racism, fascism and organised hooliganism. BCFC wants to make it very clear that it rejects any such association, and that those in favour of using violence in the name of Bristol City FC are not wanted at Ashton Gate. They bring shame on the club and our City. I am sure that the vast majority of ours supporters will agree with this. I am sure this reply will generate a long and passionate response from some supporters, claiming that the UK Ultra scene has no connection with these groups, and that they are more about generating passionate support, flags, banners, atmosphere etc. This may well be the case, but the association is still there in most people's minds and is not one we welcome. Flags are welcome, as is vocal and passionate support, but not the word Ultras. This is not about 'suits' versus the people. It's about BCFC (and Bristol Sport) making a very clear statement about its values. We are a family club who welcome everyone to Ashton Gate, young and old, and encourages support in all its varied forms, providing it stays within the law. For that reason, the word 'Ultras' has no place at Ashton Gate. I look forward to the ensuing debate. A sensible approach or sanitisation of football gone made? You'll guess from the thread title which camp I'm in. I think DL perfectly summed up why the club took the action that it did. I can empathise with the club's stance, but doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it. However now we all know the club's position it isn't too difficult to comply with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I am not, and unlikely to ever be, a member of any group wanting to call itself 'Ultras', but in this case I believe Dave L and City as a whole have got this wrong. Yes, some of the Ultra groups around Europe have a connection with racism and hooliganism, but that does not mean that any group calling itself an Ultra is built along these lines. To me the Ultra groups associate in my mind with hardcore, fanatical fans groups that bring colour and atmosphere to matches. The fact that these groups sometimes go over the top is unfortunate and something that anyone connecting to Bristol City would do well to avoid, but the group would be much better served by the Club embracing them and working with them rather than automatically assuming they are a bunch of vicious thugs. I am not slow to condemn football violence, have done openly on here, and abhor anybody partaking in it, whilst sniggering to myself at the self importance of some people on here that like to big themselves up with vague references to it whilst telling us all that we don't understand it because we're not living it (a bit like paedophilia maybe?). but would like every single supporter of Bristol City to have the chance to support the team any way they want, so long as it remains legal. It shouldn't be banned from the outset, but the people styling themselves as Ultras should also remember that they hold a responsibility to not cross the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Modern UK versions of ultras aren't troublemakers. The palace lot aren't, the Accrington Stanley ultras aren't. I doubt we'll ever see the day when the CSF start calling themselves ultras ! In this country it means a group focussed on creating atmosphere, not hooligans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think DL perfectly summed up why the club took the action that it did. I can empathise with the club's stance, but doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it. However now we all know the club's position it isn't too difficult to comply with it. The club did not perfectly sum up anything. That flag and others were allowed in the stadium for years. BS have changed that. There are people within the club who probably think the BS position is idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The club did not perfectly sum up anything. That flag and others were allowed in the stadium for years. BS have changed that. There are people within the club who probably think the BS position is idiotic. ......BS, even............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The club did not perfectly sum up anything. That flag and others were allowed in the stadium for years. BS have changed that. There are people within the club who probably think the BS position is idiotic. if it were offensive they could justifiy it, it isn't and should be aloud to stay, full stop, the clubb and BS are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've seen that flag at AG for years. Why has this only just become an issue. Who are 'most people' DL refers to that think ultras are fascists & racists? This club has a nasty attitude sometimes to its supporters who to my knowledge have never been pulled up on any racist or facist behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Ducking ridiculous. Club really is ducking pathetic sometimes. May I suggest they get on the blower to their counterparts at palace ASAP as they need a ducking huge reality check. You pathetic that's at the top of my club are a part of the problem in football and make it so ducking hard to support bcfc. The sooner some of you get off your holy high ducking horses and duck off the better Ducking pathetic East end ultras were praised by Steve L on the pitch last season you hypocrite toss pots. I'm done Sounds like you're quacking up mate. To be fair, football is stale at the moment, especially with all the suits swanning about. They think they're mallard. I'd like us to stand together, birds of a feather flock together and all that jazz. We need to really show the club that they're going to start losing fans if this continues, and at the end of the day, they will have to pick up the bill. I assure you, fans WILL start flocking the nest, and these fans are the clubs most passionate. All this about the word "ultra", I mean, its not as if we're goose stepping about Ashton Gate. Even if we did, waddle you think they'd do about it? If Bristol City football club put more faith into its fans, I'm sure things would go swimmingly. I sometimes think the club are simply winging it, and they're constantly pekin on here to see what else they can do to piss us off. They get all plucky, but they'll soon back down if we called fowl play and protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Poll time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 26, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The part I find strangest is that the flag has been on display at AG8 for years, and even featured by the club in the matchday programme. So why mid way through this season has the flag suddenly been deemed inappropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Poor decision in my opinion. I see no nazi salutes or swastikas at AG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I would just ask Joseph Lloyd and the Politburo which words are now banned. It seems only fair to let us clients know the list of non-approved words so we don't waste our money on expensive flags that aren't welcome in the Sports Hosting Centre. As a fully signed up feminist ("this is what a feminist looks like"), I would hope that the list includes the term "Bristol City" as our recent cockney visitors will tell you this is a term that degrades women. [Obviously, the term "Bristol City" could be taken to be entirely neutral in this context...but <ahem> "Ultra" isn't to be applied "in context"] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinheadface Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Starting to think the heart of our club is being ripped out bit by bit.: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 these fans are the clubs most passionate. Sometimes I sympathise with such groups, then i remember that these supporters think that they are magically better than the rest of the support. At which point I stop caring. The club tried to get safe standing, they pretty much led the cause in England. yet that is overlooked. The club give a reason for not incorporating unreserved seating, that gets overlooked. Some fans will always complain, despite apparently being the "most passionate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The club did not perfectly sum up anything. That flag and others were allowed in the stadium for years. BS have changed that. There are people within the club who probably think the BS position is idiotic. That is your opinion, probably based upon your own personal opinion on the matter. For what it is worth I think the stance is wrong and misplaced, but DL provided the reasoning behind why they have adopted that approach. Whether that reasoning has merit is another debate, but it does sum up exactly why the club took the approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 26, 2015 Author SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 And now, compare and contrast. The approach taken to 'ultras' at Middlesbrough: Boro's Red Faction: From naughty step to pride of place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think DL perfectly summed up why the club took the action that it did. I can empathise with the club's stance, but doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it. However now we all know the club's position it isn't too difficult to comply with it. Seem to have heard that argument somewhere else before, but Godwin's Law prevents me from commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTEND WURZEL Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 it was never a problem before , in fact 5 years ago in fareness to the club they bent over backwards to get the flag measurred to drill hooks in the wall so it could be hung properly !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 And now, compare and contrast. The approach taken to 'ultras' at Middlesbrough: Boro's Red Faction: From naughty step to pride of place Well perhaps this is the time to approach the club and see what can be achieved by both sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 it was never a problem before , in fact 5 years ago in fareness to the club they bent over backwards to get the flag measurred to drill hooks in the wall so it could be hung properly !!! Would it be paranoid to suggest that it's the BS* suits who have demanded this? * (and how apt that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I was one of those who spoke in favour of BS when others said that this sort of thing would happen. I'm beginning to have second thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Colby-Tit Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 What a load of bollox. What next, banning "Keep the red flag flying high" because of it's association with Socialism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm sure I saw an 'East End Ultras' flag on the netting on the lower Dolman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 What a load of bollox. What next, banning "Keep the red flag flying high" because of it's association with Socialism? Have you not seen the East Enders with snow on their boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Can understand Bristol Sport's reasoning but just goes to prove that there is nobody that understands real football fans at Ashton Gate. I don't always agree with EEers views but I'm with them on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Modern UK versions of ultras aren't troublemakers. The palace lot aren't, the Accrington Stanley ultras aren't. I doubt we'll ever see the day when the CSF start calling themselves ultras ! In this country it means a group focussed on creating atmosphere, not hooligans. Actually the Accrington example is a good one, I saw a documentary on them where the manager (James Beattie?) openly praised the 'Stanley Ultras' for their loyal and fanatical support all over the country. And they've got a huge huge Ultras flag with which the club has never had a problem. That is probably what Ultras means to a lot of people - loyal and fanatical, not all Ultras groups have links to the more sinister organisations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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