CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 But Ultra does have connotations with far right groups and football violence, so I can see why it was banned, why on Earth anyway would we want that on a flag? Sorry Monkeh mate it's ALLOWED not in as GirlsAloud It's had connotations for many years. So why ban it now and without discussion? This has the feel of the government running roughshod over everything in the name of combating terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Be interested to hear Dave's comments on this thread, seems like via the matchday programme the flag was embraced, but come the television cameras the position has changed. Have to say, I'm less and less interested in hearing from Dave. He's just a messenger and there is no part of his role that challenges those in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've written elsewhere on the forum recently defending Bristol Sport and supporting what they're trying to do at AG, but when I read stuff like this I despair. They have got this completely wrong. Ultras are diehard. committed, atmosphere making (nb Chief Exec of BS) football fans, some of whom have some nasty right wing connotations, some of whom are very left wing, some of whom are non-political, and all of whom are passionate about their club. The statement quoted by the OP is a shocking example of a prejudicial statement, tarring all fans by association just because of a small minority. The one 'group' associated with violence at City are the CSF - so how does the club reconcile todays statement with their public admission of a CSF T shirt into the dressing room (not just the ground) last season? (and, no, I'm not associating everyone involved with the CSF with violence, just asking how the club makes that distinction). It wasn't that long back that the "Ultra" fanzine was on sale around the ground and even - if I remember correctly - in the club shop. I wonder if anyone at Bristol Sport read the recent Independent article about the non league Ultras. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/football-revolution-as-disillusioned-fans-head-for-the-nonleague-9810932.html Hardly the fascist thugs that BS associate with the term - but an indication of the disillusionment causing many fans to give up on the big time Premiership clubs and moving to non league - BS take note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've written elsewhere on the forum recently defending Bristol Sport and supporting what they're trying to do at AG, but when I read stuff like this I despair. They have got this completely wrong. Ultras are diehard. committed, atmosphere making (nb Chief Exec of BS) football fans, some of whom have some nasty right wing connotations, some of whom are very left wing, some of whom are non-political, and all of whom are passionate about their club. The statement quoted by the OP is a shocking example of a prejudicial statement, tarring all fans by association just because of a small minority. The one 'group' associated with violence at City are the CSF - so how does the club reconcile todays statement with their public admission of a CSF T shirt into the dressing room (not just the ground) last season? (and, no, I'm not associating everyone involved with the CSF with violence, just asking how the club makes that distinction). It wasn't that long back that the "Ultra" fanzine was on sale around the ground and even - if I remember correctly - in the club shop. I wonder if anyone at Bristol Sport read the recent Independent article about the non league Ultras. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/football-revolution-as-disillusioned-fans-head-for-the-nonleague-9810932.html Hardly the fascist thugs that BS associate with the term - but an indication of the disillusionment causing many fans to give up on the big time Premier League clubs and moving to non league - BS take note. Unfortunately Dave and the club don't have the nous to adequately argue against your points, because anything they say will contradict itself. I guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Have to say, I'm less and less interested in hearing from Dave. He's just a messenger and there is no part of his role that challenges those in charge. Agreed, when was the last time he actively supported the fans on anything. He's just a messenger he doesn't liaise at all. Anyone who's livelyhood depends on keeping their employer onside is never going to bite the hand that feeds. He doesn't chanpion any of the supporter led movements or acknowledge their point of view at all. I think its time we stopped relying on David Lloyd to support our feelings on matters that are important to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Agreed, when was the last time he actively supported the fans on anything. He's just a messenger he doesn't liaise at all. Anyone who's livelyhood depends on keeping their employer onside is never going to bite the hand that feeds. He doesn't chanpion any of the supporter led movements or acknowledge their point of view at all. I think its time we stopped relying on David Lloyd to support our feelings on matters that are important to us. I'd be quite happy to ignore him entirely from now on. He's doing what his bosses tell him, but it's time to do it differently. His Q&A is a smokescreen. It's like asking Dave Cameron for an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Do a silent protest I think this ought to be seriously considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 So will the flag be allowed to be displayed when the tv cameras aren't there or is that it? I know it was previously on show in the Eastend but not very visible to the rest of the ground, so whilst it could only be seen by a few like-minded people the club deemed it ok? So what's the problem. The word Ultras? The TV audience getting the wrong impression? The siteing of the flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'd be quite happy to ignore him entirely from now on. He's doing what his bosses tell him, but it's time to do it differently. His Q&A is a smokescreen. It's like asking Dave Cameron for an answer. The Q&A was created post Eastend as it was felt that an opportunity had been missed in the stand, which could have been improved by more open communication. What is now being read on otib was previously tucked away on WTMS. There has been seasons of this less than coherent approach to elements of fandom, and what is occurring now is familiar to others. It does not have to be all bad. Positives can still be created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 So will the flag be allowed to be displayed when the tv cameras aren't there or is that it? I know it was previously on show in the Eastend but not very visible to the rest of the ground, so whilst it could only be seen by a few like-minded people the club deemed it ok? So what's the problem. The word Ultras? The TV audience getting the wrong impression? The siteing of the flag? The club want a a vociferous support, so long as we behave, do it quietly, do it sat down, don't offend anyone, or risk offending anyone. I don't think they really understand football at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm just watching the game again, in HD, and you can barely make out the word "ultras" on the flag anyway. Fxuking joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The Q&A was created post Eastend as it was felt that an opportunity had been missed in the stand, which could have been improved by more open communication. What is now being read on otib was previously tucked away on WTMS. There has been seasons of this less than coherent approach to elements of fandom, and what is occurring now is familiar to others. It does not have to be all bad. Positives can still be created. The Q&A is being used to TELL us how it is. It is not a 2-way process, hence you can't respond directly to answers. The Q&A is manna from heaven for the management. It's a great tool that allows them to say they are engaged. Choose to see it as positive if you feel it is. I've seen enough of it to realise it's not worth reading. There are a few core things that matter to me at AG and I see precious little working-together on these points. I'm afraid, as it stands, we'll get what we're given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54-46 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 So if someone were to knock up a few hundred decently designed t shirts with some form of "City Ultras" across the front and wore the en masse, what would the stewards / clubs reaction be I wonder? Have everyone ejected or force them to cover up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 But Ultra does have connotations with far right groups and football violence, so I can see why it was banned, why on Earth anyway would we want that on a flag? Sorry Monkeh mate it's ALLOWED not in as GirlsAloud Far right groups do not have exclusive use of the word Ultras, it is also used by many far left wing groups of supporters from clubs such as Standard Liege, St Pauli, Babblesburg, Livorno and many others. It is also used by many other clubs fans groups are fanatical about following their club whatever the cost, creating an atmosphere and getting behind their team for 90 minutes whatever the score, this is something the hierarchy at our club seem hell bent on assuring will never happen at AG. Having read some of your posts in the past I am sure you would not like to see all groups of fans/people tarred with the same brush? This has to be one of the most embarrassing statements I have seen released from any football club, not just ours, so much so I thought it was a joke at the start. Football is becoming so sanitised in England we are becoming the laughing stock across European football fans and that is no surprise when you see statement like this. As for putting Ultras on your flag, I guess that is the choice of the person who owns the flag. It is on thousands of flags all across Europe and the rest of the World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Our club clearly like sanitised. The closest the management get to anything a bit outlandish is choosing the houmous with a hint of chilli in Waitrose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Bristol Sport & a certain someone can go **** themselves, I'm glad the majority of my experiences watching Bristol City are away from home these days. I think the away loyalty scheme that many of us exiles proposed is now further away than ever before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The Q&A is being used to TELL us how it is. It is not a 2-way process, hence you can't respond directly to answers. The Q&A is manna from heaven for the management. It's a great tool that allows them to say they are engaged. Choose to see it as positive if you feel it is. I've seen enough of it to realise it's not worth reading. There are a few core things that matter to me at AG and I see precious little working-together on these points. I'm afraid, as it stands, we'll get what we're given. And a benefit of that is more people seeing how things are v a little used forum. Fans can still work together v staying hidden behind computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 And a benefit of that is more people seeing how things are v a little used forum. Fans can still work together v staying hidden behind computers. I agree. And I'm also aware that it's easy to have a very therapeutic rant on otib. But it has to looked at in the cold light of day. Ask yourselves, honestly, what have the management agreed to or discussed positively in the last 12 months that is at the core of what fans want? If I've missed anything I'm open to being put right. I'm not talking about the beer or cider selection or the location of flags. Besides, the customer is right. If you piss your customers off then be prepared to accept their decision about if they spend their money with you. In effect, all I hear is the customer is wrong. Heaven forbid if we were to have another sticky patch. The management would be back-tracking faster than you can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I was talking to a mate after the game yesterday about the worrying under-current of Bristol Sport. In a very short space of time it's become something I certainly didn't expect, good and bad. I get the idea (ideology?) but if it's true to this then surely even Bristol Rovers play a part? Given the latest PR own goals in recent days the dreaded Bristol United wouldn't surprise me. As for the comments on not worrying about Bristol Sport when we're in the Premier League; well I would rather support the City I know and love in League 2 than a sanitised family brand in the Premier League. I mean where is the fun in that exactly? One Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Do a silent protest Or a dirty protest?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 One other thing on DL's rationale: Some Ultras in mainland Europe are represented by FAR LEFT as well as far right political views. If you are going to use this as an 'excuse' at least get your research correct. And it is 'some' not all. One Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Interesting to me the difference in what you have to do to cause upset in different football cultures. Fancy they would see this as at the trivial beyond words level... http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/steven-defour-anderlecht-midfielder-sent-off-after-kicking-ball-into-standard-liege-fans-who-unveiled-huge-banner-showing-him-decapitated-10002781.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weymouth red Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think it's time for action now ! If people want this sorted email Bristol Sport I have sent an email to Bristol sport about things I'm not happy about Get in touch with the evil Post to explain the problems fans have with the clubs attitude towards us as supporters Some sort of action Thursday in front national TV That will not affect our team! If they don't want to listen then we need to make them listen it's our club Write a joint open Letter to Mr Lansdown to explain our concerns at the lack of trust that they are creating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weymouth red Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Oh I'll say bye I probley get baned now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 The club want a a vociferous support, so long as we behave, do it quietly, do it sat down, don't offend anyone, or risk offending anyone. I don't think they really understand football at all. Exactly this. If you want atmosphere, the best atmosphere I've ever known at football has been at Rome derbies. Unbelievable. And in the case of the Lazio fans, orchestrated by an ultra group with some pretty unpleasant fascist connotations. (Although you wont see Ultra on their banners - they're Irriducibili - perhaps try that on a banner at AG and see what happens?!). And some of them are pretty unpleasant fascists, and some are thoroughly nice guys. But, they create the best atmosphere in support of the club. And that's the dilemma some clubs face - do you get the vociferous support you want if you antagonise those very supporters. Now, in Lazio's case, you might argue that the answer's yes. But in City's case, the club seems to be creating that dilemma for itself, and in its own imagination. What possible evidence is there that any City ultras are the far right Lazio type - much more evidence they're akin to the Crystal Palace even Dulwich Hamlet Ultras. As you say CR - not a clue on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Oh I'll say bye I probley get baned now Why would you be banned? You've broken no forum rules, nor do the club have any say in the running of the forum. They have asked on a few occasions for posts to be removed, but not for a very long time, and only if they have contained something libellous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I agree. And I'm also aware that it's easy to have a very therapeutic rant on otib. But it has to looked at in the cold light of day. Ask yourselves, honestly, what have the management agreed to or discussed positively in the last 12 months that is at the core of what fans want? If I've missed anything I'm open to being put right. "But it has to looked at in the cold light of day. Ask yourselves, honestly, what have the management agreed to or discussed positively in the last 12 months that is at the core of what fans want?" That could be tough to answer. "If I've missed anything I'm open to being put right." There will be further consultations. The Supporters Trust are attempting to organise further consultations. We / Us can attempt to explain how they can carry more along with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I was talking to a mate after the game yesterday about the worrying under-current of Bristol Sport. In a very short space of time it's become something I certainly didn't expect, good and bad. I get the idea (ideology?) but if it's true to this then surely even Bristol Rovers play a part? Given the latest PR own goals in recent days the dreaded Bristol United wouldn't surprise me. As for the comments on not worrying about Bristol Sport when we're in the Premier League; well I would rather support the City I know and love in League 2 than a sanitised family brand in the Premier League. I mean where is the fun in that exactly? One Team Bristol United not in my lifetime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1984 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think it's time for action now ! If people want this sorted email Bristol Sport I have sent an email to Bristol sport about things I'm not happy about Get in touch with the evil Post to explain the problems fans have with the clubs attitude towards us as supporters Some sort of action Thursday in front national TV That will not affect our team! If they don't want to listen then we need to make them listen it's our club Write a joint open Letter to Mr Lansdown to explain our concerns at the lack of trust that they are creating Good post and in my opinion the right attitude that must be adopted by the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Why would you be banned? You've broken no forum rules, nor do the club have any say in the running of the forum. They have asked on a few occasions for posts to be removed, but not for a very long time, and only if they have contained something libellous. He didn't think he would be banned Dolly. Just baned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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