BS4 on Tour... Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 22 minutes ago, JM91 said: Not remotely condescending, just pointing out that 1,100 signitures in 3 years should be interpreted as those in favour of the Robin being the badge are very much in the minority (despite how loudly they shout about it). we have sporadically worn the coat of arms over our history, including in the 1909 FA cup final and it has been the most used badge, in fact the original Robin was just a marketing gimic on entry to the top division (i.e a marketing tool as no club can take ownership of a coat of arms)! Imagine the reaction if Bristol Sport tried to introduce a new badge now? Total and utter rejection would be the result. I also find the argument that it would be unique to be strange. Granted a lot of teams wear their city's coat of arms, but how many use a mascot as their logo? Just using the bird & ball elements, we have Liverpool, Tottenham, Crystal Palace, Norwich, Swansea, Brighton, Sheffield Wednesday, Cardiff,Bradford, Walsall, Scarborough, Notts County, Wimbledon and Wycombe ... and that's not even mentioning any of the other animals/mascots on various teams badges. Even aside from that it has been pointed out how many teams are nicknamed "the robins". If it's a marker of identity that is being sought then surely we should also seek to get away from the Red and White colours? lots of teams wear red and white and they are not unique colours. The only time the coat of arms badge was worn between 1902 and 1951 was at the 1909 FA Cup Final. You are incorrect when you the original Robin only appeared 'on entry to the top division' - I presume you mean in 1976? The Robin was our badge in 1949. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 16 minutes ago, phantom said: Interesting - where else have you heard about it? First I heard was reading this thread, be interested to see what is already out there Every year there seems to be something about changing the badge back to the Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 It reminds a bit of Scotland moaning for independence. Have a poll, loose the poll try again a year later and repeat.... I swear there is a poll or thread on here every 6 months about the robin badge. I personally dislike the robin badge I find it very amateurish, I also have only ever known the current badge so as far as I'm concerned that is our badge. I quite like the Ernie robin artwork around the ground but don't want it replacing our badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 28 minutes ago, JM91 said: Not remotely condescending, just pointing out that 1,100 signitures in 3 years should be interpreted as those in favour of the Robin being the badge are very much in the minority (despite how loudly they shout about it). we have sporadically worn the coat of arms over our history, including in the 1909 FA cup final and it has been the most used badge, in fact the original Robin was just a marketing gimic on entry to the top division (i.e a marketing tool as no club can take ownership of a coat of arms)! Imagine the reaction if Bristol Sport tried to introduce a new badge now? Total and utter rejection would be the result. I also find the argument that it would be unique to be strange. Granted a lot of teams wear their city's coat of arms, but how many use a mascot as their logo? Just using the bird & ball elements, we have Liverpool, Tottenham, Crystal Palace, Norwich, Swansea, Brighton, Sheffield Wednesday, Cardiff,Bradford, Walsall, Scarborough, Notts County, Wimbledon and Wycombe ... and that's not even mentioning any of the other animals/mascots on various teams badges. Even aside from that it has been pointed out how many teams are nicknamed "the robins". If it's a marker of identity that is being sought then surely we should also seek to get away from the Red and White colours? lots of teams wear red and white and they are not unique colours. There's no ball on Brighton's badge or Liverpool's or Swansea's or Sheffield Wednesday's or Cardiff's or Bradford's or Walsall's or Wimbledon's or Wycombe's and Scarborough are now in the northern premier league. Not sure where you were going with the 'bird and ball' elements but there ain't any balls on those badges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 18 minutes ago, Rob k said: Every year there seems to be something about changing the badge back to the Robin This may because having the crest of Bristol for what was a West Country team, nicknamed the Robins playing in the City of Bristol is not universally popular, a BCFC commercial director found it hard to identify the advantages of the crest, and fans have been invited by/or approached BCFC and Bristol Sport [?] to discuss the topic in person.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 6 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: There's no ball on Brighton's badge or Liverpool's or Swansea's or Sheffield Wednesday's or Cardiff's or Bradford's or Walsall's or Wimbledon's or Wycombe's and Scarborough are now in the northern premier league. Not sure where you were going with the 'bird and ball' elements but there ain't any balls on those badges... Dont be stupid just for the sake of it. I was listing badges which are similar if we had a Robins badge with just the bird and the ball. Showing that the idea that a mascot as a badge being unique is incorrect. Loads of teams have an American-style mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 57 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: For me this isn't so much about the nickname, it's about a clear and recognisable identity. Our current badge has been used by Gloucestershire CC, The Gas and Bristol Rugby. So what is so wrong with having one we can call our own and one that is obviously and instantly recognisable as ours? What exactly isn't clear about our Identity? Are we being confused with another Bristol City? The only confusion I can see is that some people call us "Bristol" despite the fact there is Bristol Rovers but short of changing our name away from Bristol City to "The Robins" I don't see how a change of badge would change that? With regards to Bristol Rovers they use this:which correct me if I'm wrong is not in the slightest bit the same as our cities coat of arms like so: and Gloucester is cricket, it has no affect on our identity. Finally Bristol Rugby also has no affect on us, but they are Bristol and the coast of arms represents Bristol. The very name of our club Bristol City makes our current badge make more sence for us to use the City of Bristol coat of arms more than any other team. We used the Robin for less than 20 years but used the coat of arms for the rest of our history, including the last twenty one years, so I'm failing to see how such a small period of our clubs history is a better recognisable identity than the one we've had for over 96 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Bristol Robins v Hull Tigers in 2017? Will some be happy then. (There is no reference to "City" in the robin badge). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 As much as I hate the R*vers badge, the pirate tells you who it is. Look at ours next to it, I'll use the word again 'generic', take 'Bristol City' off it and it could be anyone. I'd wager that not many fans of other clubs would know that was Bristol City. One look at the R*vers badge and I'm sure someone in Braintree, or Welling, for example, would know who it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, Woodsy said: As much as I hate the R*vers badge, the pirate tells you who it is. Look at ours next to it, I'll use the word again 'generic', take 'Bristol City' off it and it could be anyone. I'd wager that not many fans of other clubs would know that was Bristol City. One look at the R*vers badge and I'm sure someone in Braintree, or Welling, for example, would know who it is I'd rather have a traditional "generic" looking badge than a tacky looking piece of sh** like the Gas have. As for knowing who's badge it is.... the "Bristol City FC" thing is a dead give-away unless of course we're worried about the fans who cannot read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, Spike said: I'd rather have a traditional "generic" looking badge than a tacky looking piece of sh** like the Gas have. As for knowing who's badge it is.... the "Bristol City FC" thing is a dead give-away unless of course we're worried about the fans who cannot read. Ok, read what I said, Spike......take 'Bristol City' off the badge and people wouldn't know. I should be more worried about the people on here who can't read And I don't disagree that the R*vers badge is tacky, that's not my point, or my concern. The pirate tells you it's that lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 The old badge was great with Brunel's pride and joy overlooking the Robin and football, utterly unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just now, Woodsy said: Ok, read what I said, Spike......take 'Bristol City' off the badge and people wouldn't know. I should be more worried about the people on here who can't read And I don't disagree that the R*vers badge is tacky, that's not my point, or my concern. The pirate tells you it's that lot My bad, I missed that but even so I can identify almost every badge in the Premier League, Championship and League One, that includes Huddersfield, Coventry, Peterborough and Blackpool who also use their coat of arms. The recognition of a clubs badge doesn't come from what's on it though, it comes from how much it's seen. Take for example Man Citys badge, since becoming a powerhouse in the Premier League almost everyone can instantly identify it but before their take over far less people would have known the badge. A good example of the other way around is Coventry, their badge was well and truly known in the 80's when they were a great club but ask a youngster to do your no name badge identity test in most places around the UK and they wouldn't have a clue. I'm still curious to see some actual decent examples of how changing our badge to a Robin would make us any more identifiable, hell a lot of the young Cardiff fans I know, friends of my daughters, wouldn't have a clue who the Robin badge belonged to if it didn't have Bristol City on it but they recognise my shirt as a Bristol City shirt when they see it with the coat of arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray White Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Signed the petition but in the grand scheme of things it makes little difference to me what badge we wear on our shirt. I like the Robin but at the same time I've only ever known the coat of arms on our shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 25 minutes ago, Spike said: What exactly isn't clear about our Identity? The use of our identity can be contentious.Many Bristol City fans do not come from Bristol. Bristol City FC positioned itself as a West Country club playing in the City of Bristol. BCFC The Pride of the West not the preserve of Bristolians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 minutes ago, WTMS said: The use of our identity can be contentious.Many Bristol City fans do not come from Bristol. Bristol City FC positioned itself as a West Country club playing in the City of Bristol. BCFC The Pride of the West not the preserve of Bristolians. I live in Cardiff, I was born and raised in Bristol but my daughter is a Bristol City fan despite living in Cardiff and her mother being Welsh, even she understands that the club she supports is Bristol City, a club situated in Bristol. Are you saying we should change our name to West Country Robins? I mean if the badge change is to include all of our fans no matter where they come from then surely we need to change the name too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 8 minutes ago, Spike said: My bad, I missed that but even so I can identify almost every badge in the Premier League, Championship and League One, that includes Huddersfield, Coventry, Peterborough and Blackpool who also use their coat of arms. The recognition of a clubs badge doesn't come from what's on it though, it comes from how much it's seen. Take for example Man Citys badge, since becoming a powerhouse in the Premier League almost everyone can instantly identify it but before their take over far less people would have known the badge. A good example of the other way around is Coventry, their badge was well and truly known in the 80's when they were a great club but ask a youngster to do your no name badge identity test in most places around the UK and they wouldn't have a clue. I'm still curious to see some actual decent examples of how changing our badge to a Robin would make us any more identifiable, hell a lot of the young Cardiff fans I know, friends of my daughters, wouldn't have a clue who the Robin badge belonged to if it didn't have Bristol City on it but they recognise my shirt as a Bristol City shirt when they see it with the coat of arms. It's all contention, people can tell the difference between a Man U & Liverpool shirt without seeing the badge (or the sponsor), so it's all a moot point anyway I suspect! There's a generation (or two) that grew up with the robin, there's now a generation who didn't, and a generation before the robin too. It's all personal taste. I quite like what Cheltenham done with their badge with the reworked robin, nice design, modern feel to it I could go on and on about how much I hate our badge, but I'm someone who likes to see things freshened up now and then. There will be plenty of others who are happy for it never to change. Ne'er the twain shall meet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 hours ago, Nomad said: I agree. Never understood our good City's love in for Giovanni. Well, opening up of trade routes with North America did mark the ascent of our city to become England's biggest port and second largest city. But history aside, I quite like the Robin badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just now, Woodsy said: It's all contention, people can tell the difference between a Man U & Liverpool shirt without seeing the badge (or the sponsor), so it's all a moot point anyway I suspect! There's a generation (or two) that grew up with the robin, there's now a generation who didn't, and a generation before the robin too. It's all personal taste. I quite like what Cheltenham done with their badge with the reworked robin, nice design, modern feel to it I could go on and on about how much I hate our badge, but I'm someone who likes to see things freshened up now and then. There will be plenty of others who are happy for it never to change. Ne'er the twain shall meet I grew up with the Robin, I was born in 81 and didn't see the coat of arms until I was 16 at which point I'd already spent 3 seasons as a season ticket holder. I understand nostalgia and wanting people to recognise our identity but our name is Bristol City, the coat of arms is our most traditional badge we've used and the Robin is only something Bristolians associate with Bristol City, trust me, living in Cardiff, and spending a lot of time in Leeds and Bradford I am yet to meet someone who recognises the Bristol City Robin as anything more than "a Robin?". I think if you did a UK based poll on people who do not live in Bristol and took both badges, the Robin and the coat of arms, and removed the name on each more would know our coat of arms than the Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, Spike said: I live in Cardiff, I was born and raised in Bristol but my daughter is a Bristol City fan despite living in Cardiff and her mother being Welsh, even she understands that the club she supports is Bristol City, a club situated in Bristol. Are you saying we should change our name to West Country Robins? I mean if the badge change is to include all of our fans no matter where they come from then surely we need to change the name too? Bristol City being a West Country club playing in the CITY of Bristol coupled with the Robin/Pride of the West was a quite simplistic message to understand. The Crest? It certainly is not universally popular amongst fans of BCFC. Its a mite dull and has an air of parochialism about it. Hence why things like the Angry Robin exist, bit of fun, less stuffy and unmistakably nothing to do with the Gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 10 hours ago, NickJ said: Think the tone of your second sentence is unnecessarily condescending, and speaking as somebody not that bothered, is more likely to make me shout louder in favour of the robin. Anyway you are incorrect, preference for the robin is not nostalgia as both have been used interchangeably over the years. Its more that the robin - and variations of it - is identified as unique to Bristol City. Most clubs started with their crest being the coat of arms of their city, as we have currently, but over the years many changed to something more identifiable with their club, so that today most clubs have something other than the city coat of arms. The robin was first used by City in the 50's, briefly changed back to the traditional design, and back to the robin from the 70's onwards. For many years the shirt did not even carry a crest. Bristol City are unusual in that they reverted to the city coat of arms. Identity is everything when it comes to the sometimes irrational allegiance to football clubs and it is simply incorrect to say that the current badge as used is the "real" badge of Bristol City. The stories behind football clubs crests, colours and nicknames is a mildly interesting lesson in local social history which for anyone so inclined might want to have a look at this: https://thebeautifulhistory.wordpress.com/foreword/ A very interesting blog, thank you. Do you have any idea of the story behind the photograph of the (presumably) West Ham ground - empty apart from one section behind the goal and surveilled by a huge Police presence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 hours ago, Spike said: I'm so fed up of hearing about the Robin badge, we are called Bristol City, the coat of arms we use is for the City of Bristol, yet we want a Robin badge back? There are eight teams called the Robins including us so I fail to see why we're so hungry to see it back as our badge. You have Altrincham, Bracknell Town, ourselves, Charlton, Cheltenham, Evesham, Ilkeston and Swindon who are all called the Robins. What's so wrong about being called Bristol City and just using the Robin on the kit in some other manner? The crazy thing is when clubs try to rebrand using their nicknames the most common repsonse is pointing out how cringe-worthy it is like when Hull were trying to rebrand as "The Tigers". If tomorrow we had the badge changed to the Robin and then the board said "well we may as well go full rebrand and change the team name is Bristol Robins" people would go apesh*t at them. I love the Robin, it's a nice touch on top of the club name and it looks nice when incorporated into our kit or merchandise but for the love of god please can we stop wanting to be less generic by changing our badge to our very generic nickname? Charlton call themselves the Addicks much more often than the Robins, I don't think I've ever heard a Charlton fan call themselves the Robins. We're not talking about a rebrand here, it's a badge. I think the current one is a bit ugly but it's the one I've always known to be the Bristol City badge. I'd be open to a change though. (I'd like to see a badge that consists of Ernie the angry robin throttling a bluebird and a pirate with his foot on a ball, the suspension bridge in the background and a tankard of cider in his hand. Can't see that going down well in a BCFC board meeting though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 10 minutes ago, WTMS said: Bristol City being a West Country club playing in the CITY of Bristol coupled with the Robin/Pride of the West was a quite simplistic message to understand. The Crest? It certainly is not universally popular amongst fans of BCFC. Its a mite dull and has an air of parochialism about it. Hence why things like the Angry Robin exist, bit of fun, less stuffy and unmistakably nothing to do with the Gas. Before this thread I never realised Rovers used the coat of arms as a badge, when was this? I bet only a very small minority knew this and therefore I reckon you're only using the Gas reference for your own agenda, I highly doubt anyone know knows football would link it with Rovers. At the end of the day it's only a badge, and it's in fact our name that links us more with Rovers, this is proven by us constantly being called Bristol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, JM91 said: Dont be stupid just for the sake of it. I was listing badges which are similar if we had a Robins badge with just the bird and the ball. Showing that the idea that a mascot as a badge being unique is incorrect. Loads of teams have an American-style mascot. No need to call me stupid, which I most certainly am not. Too many resort to insults when proved wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, Spike said: What exactly isn't clear about our Identity? Are we being confused with another Bristol City? The only confusion I can see is that some people call us "Bristol" despite the fact there is Bristol Rovers but short of changing our name away from Bristol City to "The Robins" I don't see how a change of badge would change that? With regards to Bristol Rovers they use this:which correct me if I'm wrong is not in the slightest bit the same as our cities coat of arms like so: and Gloucester is cricket, it has no affect on our identity. Finally Bristol Rugby also has no affect on us, but they are Bristol and the coast of arms represents Bristol. The very name of our club Bristol City makes our current badge make more sence for us to use the City of Bristol coat of arms more than any other team. We used the Robin for less than 20 years but used the coat of arms for the rest of our history, including the last twenty one years, so I'm failing to see how such a small period of our clubs history is a better recognisable identity than the one we've had for over 96 years? I said the coat of arms has been used by Rovers, didn't say it is their current badge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, JM91 said: Dont be stupid just for the sake of it. Why so angry? And in any case he was right you were wrong. 1 hour ago, harrys said: The old badge was great with Brunel's pride and joy overlooking the Robin and football, utterly unique Yes agreed and I am swayed by the argument we should adopt something which is unique to Bristol City FC, not generically Bristol. 23 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: A very interesting blog, thank you. Do you have any idea of the story behind the photograph of the (presumably) West Ham ground - empty apart from one section behind the goal and surveilled by a huge Police presence? In a word, no. This debate has gone on for years, anyone remember the hideous design proposed by the club 10 years ago and the furore that caused? http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/32115-new-badge-revealed/&page=1 And Mr Lansdown's dismissive "its only a badge" quote which was so so right and yet so wrong all at the same time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, Spike said: What exactly isn't clear about our Identity? Are we being confused with another Bristol City? The only confusion I can see is that some people call us "Bristol" despite the fact there is Bristol Rovers but short of changing our name away from Bristol City to "The Robins" I don't see how a change of badge would change that? With regards to Bristol Rovers they use this:which correct me if I'm wrong is not in the slightest bit the same as our cities coat of arms like so: and Gloucester is cricket, it has no affect on our identity. Finally Bristol Rugby also has no affect on us, but they are Bristol and the coast of arms represents Bristol. The very name of our club Bristol City makes our current badge make more sence for us to use the City of Bristol coat of arms more than any other team. We used the Robin for less than 20 years but used the coat of arms for the rest of our history, including the last twenty one years, so I'm failing to see how such a small period of our clubs history is a better recognisable identity than the one we've had for over 96 years? "The identity we've had for over 96 years" ?? The coat of arms was only on our kit for one game between 1902 and 1951 and that was the FA Cup Final... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: No need to call me stupid, which I most certainly am not. Too many resort to insults when proved wrong... you havent proven anything wrong, youve misinterpreted the statement and argued against something that you yourself have made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomad Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 50 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Well, opening up of trade routes with North America did mark the ascent of our city to become England's biggest port and second largest city. But history aside, I quite like the Robin badge. Doesn't make him one of our own though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 9 minutes ago, NickJ said: Do you have any idea of the story behind the photograph of the (presumably) West Ham ground - empty apart from one section behind the goal and surveilled by a huge Police presence? In a word, no. A very short and to the point answer from NickJ. Anybody else have any idea what this photograph is all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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