Phileas Fogg
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Posts posted by Phileas Fogg
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19 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Absolutely delighted with the 3 points yesterday and partied long into the night about it.
This is actually pretty camp - and we need plenty more of that on OTIB.
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Interestingly, Clarke, Roberts and Pritchard are all (I believe) Lee Johnson signings.
I wonder whether he’d have been far better in a role like Tinnion’s than a traditional manager one.
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I have a feeling that in a year’s time (provided he gets enough minutes) he’ll be seen as our best player - and key to how we play.
He was Pearson’s Knockeart type that he wanted, and I think once he’s up to speed he’ll be very good.
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1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Data is just that, data. Now I like data. But data doesn't tell you everything. Football is still a game that's full of randomness and emotions.
Data might tell you that Sykes has made less runs than normal. It doesn't tell you why. But a good manager doesn't need data to tell him that Sykes has made less runs. He should just know that by what he sees with his eyes.
Even Pep and Man City who have the best data available to them and Pep uses it himself, doesn't simply rely upon the data.
The best managers have all that data in their head without the need of a spreadsheet to tell them it.
Yeah, no one is disputing that. It's a tool to exploit.
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4 minutes ago, Peter1450 said:
From a guy who just likes watching City on a Saturday with his lad and grandson with a beer or two thrown in, never used a spreadsheet in my many years!
Me and many others have made the point on previous threads that you can study and work with all the data you can muster but if the squad you are working with aren’t talented enough or on board with how you work it’s just meaningless in the reality that’s a cold damp Ashton Gate.
Hoping for something to get us out of our seats today please.
Not really. Data underpins everything. You could argue that use of data could help a less talented squad find alternative ways to win.
Some people are real Luddites about data. If you apply that view, why stop there? What’s the point in a gym programme for the players or a good diet if they’re not as talented as Leicester’s squad?
All these ‘newfangled’ facets of managing a football team really do seem to spook some people for some reason.
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1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:
"Data doesn’t give you points or change league positions, but what it does tell you is the direction you’re heading in and if you continue to create chances, and minimise the opposition, then you’ll win games."
Assuming this is a correct quote from Manning as it’s on the Bristol Live page. What waffle! Back to the days of measuring grass it would seem. It’s nearly enough to make you want to tap out at this point.
I listened to the press conference (rather than picking out a quote with no context from a printed summary) and I believe this was an answer directly to a question about data.. in which case, what else is he supposed to say in his answer?
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Amazing how in one tweet, Pearson is able to write more eloquently and offer more insight than Manning does in the entirety of these programme notes. These could’ve been written by Chat GPT.
I asked Chat GPT to write programme notes with the following prompt: “Write me programme notes as if written by Bristol City manager Liam Manning for the upcoming home game on Saturday against Sunderland. The audience is the supporters and it needs to be about a page long. Mention the recent games (draw vs Huddersfield and defeat vs Blackburn) welcome the Sunderland interim coach Mike Dodds” (gave it a couple bits of up to date info as it won’t know it proactively) - it came up with this.. sounds a bit like Manning but is actually more inspiring than the real ones!
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**Bristol City vs Sunderland - Home Game**
**Programme Notes by Liam Manning**Dear Robins Faithful,
As we gear up for our home clash against Sunderland this Saturday, I want to extend a warm welcome to each of you at Ashton Gate. Your support is our strength, echoing far beyond the stands and directly onto the pitch where it matters most.
**Reflecting on Recent Outings**
Our recent games have been a mix of emotions and learning. The draw against Huddersfield showcased our resilience and ability to fight back under pressure. Although we didn’t secure the win, the team's spirit and determination were commendable. In contrast, our defeat to Blackburn was a tough pill to swallow. It highlighted areas we need to improve, and rest assured, we have been working tirelessly to address these.**A Welcome to Mike Dodds**
I'd like to extend a special welcome to Mike Dodds, Sunderland's interim coach. His reputation for insightful football strategies precedes him, and we expect a well-organized and spirited Sunderland side under his guidance. It's always invigorating to match wits with such capable coaching, and I look forward to the tactical battle that awaits.**The Sunderland Challenge**
Sunderland brings a unique set of challenges. Known for their robust playing style and strategic approach, they will be looking to capitalize on any opportunity. However, we are ready. Our preparation has been focused and intense, aiming to harness our strengths and mitigate our vulnerabilities.**Our Tactical Approach**
In training, we have emphasized on improving our ball retention and creating more goal-scoring opportunities. We aim to be more dynamic in our attack while maintaining a solid defensive structure. The team is in good spirits, and I have full confidence in their ability to execute our plan effectively.**The Power of Ashton Gate**
As always, Ashton Gate is our bastion. The atmosphere you create is our advantage, and we need that more than ever. Your support is not just appreciated; it is integral. Let's make our home ground a fortress where opposing teams fear to tread.**Unity and Support**
This game is about more than just the 11 players on the pitch; it's about all of us – the team and the supporters – united in our passion and commitment to Bristol City. Your cheers, your belief, your energy – they all matter. Let's stand together, cheer relentlessly, and drive the team forward to a victory.**Conclusion**
We embark on this journey together - players, staff, and supporters. Each game is a step towards our collective goals, and your role in this journey is invaluable. Let's show Sunderland the true spirit of Bristol City and secure a win that echoes our ambition and determination.Together, we rise.
**COYR!**
Liam Manning
Head Coach, Bristol City FC---
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10 hours ago, Harry said:
I keep seeing this come up, but as I said back on his first day, it’s not LJ, it’s SOD.
It’s the talk of processes and decision making and players thinking for themselves, it’s a stubbornness to play his way but not having the players to fulfil that, it’s the awkwardness (or maybe more lacking personality) with the media which won’t endear him to supporters.
He is much closer to SOD than he is to LJ.It’s simply because he’s a younger manager I think. Pretty lazy comparison.
I think there are lots of valid points of debate about this appointment, but I feel they lose validity if that comparison is made.
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16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
It does need to change. It gives an away team a bit of an advantage for sure.
In my opinion they should be up in the upper Lansdown or at the very least in the lower Lansdown near the Atyeo.
Move s82 back to the Atyeo, make the whole Atyeo safe standing. You then have plenty of space in the SS to move the family area to.
Exactly what I’d like to see also. It’s in issues like that where it’s clear to see the board don’t really understand football.
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18 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Please bring this up at the next fans forum.
It is something that needs exploration - obviously the talking shop fans forum the other week wasn’t the place.
It just baffles me why the club allow this to happen - boneheaded design.
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12 hours ago, fisherrich said:
AG will be like a home game for Sunderland.
Nigh on 3000 Mackams roaring them on, whereas the “AG library” will be quiet again.
Would take a draw TBH as a good result.It really is ridiculous that we allow that to even be a factor at home.
How many proper teams wilfully allow the away side to have a whole end behind a goal whilst sticking our own vocal support as far away as possible?
There’s absolutely no need to gift the away side a marginal gain like this.
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7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:
I don't (in hindsight admittedly). Sid clearly intimated that front foot, attacking football would be delivered, HIS words, not our interpretation, and then proceeded to recruit patient, possession heavy football instead. Manning hasn't hoodwinked anyone, that's his style. Tell me the "thought process" behind saying one thing and recruiting another or even whether there was any thought AT ALL let alone a "process" - this isn't a dig at you btw.
Almost like he wanted to receive his P45................
What I mean by that the board clearly have wanted to be part of the ‘progressive manager’ club.
They’ve seen lots of similar sized and smaller clubs get promoted with this model.
If that’s what they’re looking for then Manning is a logical choice. He has good credentials and far better experience than Holden or Johnson when appointed.
Is November, in a competitive league, the right time for such an appointment though? It’s a big risk.
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1 hour ago, NewquayRed said:
Totally agree like it or not I don’t see a change happening with the Manager unless we’re relegated and even then not nailed on. Have to back them
Agreed, they’ve made a big call and have to ride it out now.
I can understand the thought process behind Manning, that in itself is an improvement when you compare to the appointment of Holden. I just question whether it’s the right time for such a different approach.
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7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
As others have commented. Him and Swansea are a more natural fit.
Sacking him right now wouldn't be the right thing to do. We're no where near that point.
But if he were to leave 2moro I wouldn't be disappointed as up until now it just hasn't worked out and its going to take a lot of time and patience and probably money with no guarantees it will work out.
My issue is the confirmation bias in all your posts - why not just give him a chance?
I think it’s far too early to say it ‘hasn’t worked out’. The decision to remove Pearson and then target a manager so different in approach is on Tinnion and Lansdown.
If we did end up in the farcical situation you’ve endorsed whereby Manning ends up at Swansea somehow - the club would look even more rudderless. Our pool of potential managers would shrink even more.
Unfortunately, regardless what any of us think of the wisdom behind the situation, Manning is here now.
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3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Whilst I'm not in the camp of wanting to sack him, if him and Swansea wanted to talk to each other ala Pulis and Portsmouth then I'd not mind.
It just doesn't feel like the right fit at this moment in time.
So basically - you don’t want to be seen as wanting him to be sacked because it would look hasty and reactionary.. but at the same time, quite happy for him to leave in circumstances which don’t make you look hasty and reactionary.
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If only we were able to have Manning as head coach, Pearson as some sort of hybrid DoF/Tinnion role/bridge between playing operation and board plus Richard Gould in place of JL.
That would be a real recipe for success I think and would work as Pearson doesn’t have the insecurity to tread on Manning’s toes.
Obviously not possible, but such a shame to have the knowledge that we’ve had all 3 of those components at the club over the last 18 months.
That’s exactly the sort of vision that clubs who’ve leapfrogged us in recent years may have. We’re so stuck in our ways and with a board who seems threatened by trickier personalities that it would clearly never happen.
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Lots of it is about delivery. Lee Johnson had a few similarities in his use of vocab, but I usually listened to his interviews.
I can already tell pretty early into his tenure that I am just not that interested in Manning’s. I just don’t find them very interesting to listen to.
Being a great interviewee isn't as important as winning games, but it’s little areas like that where Manning will be able to win the support over.
I think Pearson’s communication style and candidness got him lots of support (and patience) from the fanbase.
Actually if you use a fairly broad stroke approach to it - managers here who spoke plainly (Gary Johnson, Cotterill, Pearson (and to a certain extent Holden)) were pretty well liked by the fanbase.
Managers without charisma and/or use plenty of jargon (SO’D, McInnes, Manning) found it much harder to form a relationship with the support.
The outlier is Lee Johnson who sort of crosses into both types - he obviously used lots of jargon, but is pretty charismatic. However we all know how decisive his tenure was.
The interviewers have to work a bit harder with Manning, the questions are usually horrendous.
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3 hours ago, Better Red said:
Not a ‘Striker’ was the post.
Said he’ll never get 10 a season - Still waiting on that one
have to say he is doing well in then Prem.
seymenyo looked a better prospect than Bell has to me.
For the record Bell won’t score 10 a season either not at this level anyway.
Seymenyo wide of the left with Conway and Sykes up front would be a decent front three and exiting to watch.
Not sure how many other teams Bell would get in. Not sure if not academy he would get as many games for us.
It’s fine for you to admit you got Semenyo wrong. It really doesn’t matter.
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4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
Thank you for your insightful answer.
What is?
It's just that you've clearly already made your mind up about Manning.
What's done is done. Seemingly most of the fanbase didn't agree with it or how it was done, but that's not Manning's fault. It's the board who made that decision, not Manning, so why not give him a chance?
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5 minutes ago, firstdivision said:
It’s not just Ipswich though, Silvio. Quite a few clubs are going for the younger coaching ‘guru’ type (eg, Swed and QPR. Indeed, Oxford to replace Manning). Brighton went down that route a while back. So too Swansea.
There seems to be lots of British managers approaching the end of their careers (Hodgson, Warnock, Pearson) and then lots of the 35-45 age bracket - but not as many in between that.
It feels like in recent history there was plenty more mid-career managers on the circuit at our level (Gary J, Coppell, Cotterill, Dave Jones, Curbishley, Pardew, Nigel Adkins, Owen Coyle).
I wonder if that, with clubs gravitating towards more of a ‘head coach’ style structure, that leaves that age group a bit out of the loop. They’re neither seen as progressive enough for the newer model nor experienced enough to be a ‘safe pair of hands’.
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2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:
It seems under LM to me we are changing how we set up to counter the oppositions weaknesses. I don't like that. I am a firm believer that you play to your strengths and let the opposition worry about you.
From my understanding we set up yesterday so that Pring would stay back to allow Sykes to get forward and this allowed Tanner to get forward on the right. We all know Tanner isnt an attacking FB. I'm assuming we set up like this because they highlighted a weakness with Norwich.
But I just don't like it. Play players in their correct positions and play to their strengths. Don't ask them to do things they can't do.
It does seem like you are absolutely determined to frame anything you can as a negative against Manning so that you can potentially be vindicated in not wanting him.
There really is no need to be so partisan so early into his appointment. Why not wait to see how it pans out ?
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4 minutes ago, Bris Red said:
This is all i've taken from it really, unprofessional to announce it and personally think the 'see you in the Premier league' comment at the end is not only fairly delusional given where the footbaling side of things is at the moment but ultimately just puts needless pressure on himself and others at the football club - especially if it doesn't happen under Tinnion and the current management teams watch.
As you said unprofessional from Tinnion but i'd expect nothing less from him in all honesty.
It also indicates that there is clearly a bit of an "us vs them" mentality towards the fans from the board which is a bit of a concern. If they had total confidence in their actions over the last few weeks, there wouldn't be as they'd have total confidence they are going to get it right in the long term.
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Dave Barton's questioning doesn't help either. For an experienced journalist, he asks an awful lot of closed questions.
Manning clearly isn't that comfortable in front of a camera and is nowhere near as articulate as Pearson. Makes it even more important that Barton thinks about his questions more to ensure they're actually going to help Manning get his points across.
All that happens is that Manning is forced to needlessly over-expand in his answers when he has very little to go on. It makes his answers wordy, boring and allows fluff and jargon to seep in.
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2 hours ago, Northern Red said:
I think he could have phrased what he said in a better way, but my word there's some leaps being made in this thread too, questioning his integrity etc. Mainly from people who've clearly decided they aren't giving him a chance, despite what they might say.
And as for the LJ comparisons....
Are we going to get this every time we lose a game?
It's just so lazy too. It's the managerial equivalent of comparing any black central midfield player to Marvin Elliot.
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have to say he is doing well in then Prem.
Front Foot Football
in Football Chat
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Because successful principles will benefit any team. Obviously you adjust them as per the ability level and aptitude of the players.