JoeAman08

My positivity is waning. Most of the positivity has been about energy and getting a bunch of hopeful crosses in. I think we are mistaking being better than last season to being good. We are still very poor and these team selections are not working.
 

It should be 2-0 minimum to Luton. Preston probably edged it. Swansea beat us 1-0. We have 1 goal in 7 halves at home. This isn’t good enough and countless hopeful crosses and long throws with the occasional weimann press is getting real boring real quick. More importantly ineffective. NP needs to get his head out because we’ll struggle long term again this season if he doesn’t. 

3 hours ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Wouldn’t people have thought it bit odd if he’d left out Baker or Pring and Massengo or Weimann? 

Think only one of those would have been left out and that is Baker. Was clear why Baker started against Cardiff but different ask today. I’d have had Dasilva in for Baker and Semenyo for King with Massengo central. Not wholesale changes but a couple tweaks for a different scenario.

As it turned out thought King had a good game. Baker played his part as well. Just we had a bit more possession and generally comfortable possession so we could have used a bit more impetus from the start. 

Just now, Super said:

Grim stuff.  They had enough chances to have won. Didn't get team selection and changes were bizarre as well.

Agree. Imo Pearson got it wrong today. Playing same team because they done well two weeks ago in a completely different type of match which was also away. Sure clean sheet and all that but you could feel it in the crowd that we haven’t won at home in months. Semenyo and Dasilva from start I’d have done but oh well. Was not a disaster but probably lucky with the point

Just now, joe jordans teeth said:

Will change my question to can’t run

A target man that can’t run isn’t so rare. A 5’10 target man that can’t run is though and we have one. Said after preseason Martin up top on his own won’t work. Some success against a newly promoted side and with fans finally back in. Just not going to work, especially with the attacking players we have around him. No pace around him and no goals around him. He needs to get the thought of playing Martin on his own out of his head ASAP

2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Without being overly dramatic, there is a losers mentality. It is a mental thing, it needs addressing.

Agree 100%. There was a lot of dross here and rot had set in. Still going to take more time but players need to toughen up and quick. A team that was just promoted from L1 and a L2 side. Doesn’t bode well. 

It wasn’t awful but concerning that once they started throwing punches back we caved in and reverted to what we have seen the past few seasons. Concerning we can’t get more than 1 past a decimated blackpool at home.
 

If we are going to play Martin on his own then we need goal scoring wide players. 

Thought the Baker Atkinson pairing was good but their sub started running that channel between Vyner and Baker and NB looked much less comfortable defending from that side. 
 

There are more little things like that but is matchday 1 so I expect improvement but imo we should be beating teams like Blackpool at home. 

24 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I’m assuming that the reason HNM isn’t mentioned in that list is that we’ve forgotten just how young he still is, rather than anything more sinister. It’s incredible how many games he already has under his belt given his age and position.

Really promising statements though from NP. Hope he lives up to it: we’ve heard similar before and it hasn’t happened. Not that I’ve any reason to doubt his commitment. 

Well he has been firmly part of the squad for two seasons now. It would be odd to mention him imo. Point taken though. Why I would be trying to get him to sign a new deal. Tricky times because he’d need a pay rise but it is getting to the sell time if we don’t tie him down. New deal, better wages and a release clause for teams in Europe or premier league(or gentleman’s agreement because not sure if england allows release clauses). 

6 minutes ago, Richard Head said:

I don’t see how we can know with Bell. He got his place in the team and immediately the Rolls curse got him. Nige did speak about him as “a smiling assassin” or words to that effect, and he clearly rates him. Could be the dark horse.

I may be misremembering Bell but I do not recall him standing out at all. So I had a look  at his minutes. 36 minutes in 5 appearances for first team. So probably a harsh view on my part. I just don’t remember anything standout which is acceptable over a small sample size. 
 

Just remember with Conway really good movement and composure. Scott having a really mature few games in midfield, wise beyond his years. Edwards a fearlessness and ability to take players on 1v1. With Bell remember a lot of running but nothing special on the ball. 
 

I’d like to see all of them more and we probably will in the friendlies. I’d just put Conway and Scott on another level and Owura a bit higher up because we lack options in those wide areas. Janneh I want to see more because he has had some exposure to league football and he will be physically more mature as he is older. He may not make the grade but it is time to find out imo. 

16 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Scott and Conway are the two that excite me more than the others and I`m hoping they are both in and around the first team.

I’d personally add Owura to that but can maybe add him to Janneh who I’d like to see more of. Scott and Conway I think are good enough now from what I have seen. 
 

Think Towler, Britton, Bell and Pearson need loans personally. 

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I can remember Brentford batting away interest in Mepham and Watkins for sure. See if they do not go up what the situation is with Toney. I expect a 35-40m valuation(unless there is some sort of clause) and see if they buckle to less. My only point is we seem to have only fought once in these last 5 seasons to keep a key player and that was Brownhill. Think a few clubs have a bit more fight in that. Publicly stating we won’t stand in players way was a poor choice imo. 
 

We also have been starting far too in the red so maybe that is why. Today a great start bringing the wage bill down. Starting at an estimated 15m down compared to 25m will be a huge step in the right direction for example. We have to draw a line somewhere though. 
 

I guess my point is, we have gotten to this point by constantly selling our best. Now that it is bare, I can’t fathom letting more talent go. We can’t predict Semenyo’s development but he is being looked at by prem clubs. Recruitment could(hopefully does) make losing another one manageable. At the minute Semenyo is about the only one in the side that can pick up the ball and drive us forward. The only one with the bravery to get a shot away. The only one with true pace and power. I’d be holding on as long as possible. 

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The biggest problem is not that the club want to sell but when a Prem club shows an interest in a player then it is nigh on impossible to keep that player and stop him downing tools if he doesn’t get his dream move . 
 

Everything is a gamble. Would be just as much a gamble to not sell as this may be the best valuation we ever get. My point is we have not fought enough to keep good players. Selling is inevitable. I know that but I’d like us to try and have a good season and follow it up with a better one. Possible I am arguing this at the wrong time  just think weneed to add to the talent cupboard before selling any more out. Surely there is some wiggle room for fees this summer @Davefevs? Also, I’d be more into selling Bentley, Kalas and Janneh before Semenyo. Can only sell what you get offers for but I’d be more keen in that order. 
 

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

Brentford got 2 years from Watkins, 3 years from Sawyers, 2 years of Egan, Mepham batted off interest until January and 2-3 seasons each from Benrahma and Maupay. 
 

I think you are mint at what you do Dave. But you can’t constantly look at players as assets. Sometimes you need to look at what they bring to the pitch. The money being offered up may get 3-4 players but of what quality? We have a good player who achieved some pretty good things in his first proper season as a pro(time at Bath and half a season at Newport and Sunderland). Plenty of examples of what one player can bring a side. Pukki at Norwich, Toney at Brentford, Armstrong at Blackburn. Someone who can bring that bit of magic and Semenyo is about the only one contracted to us at the minute who can do that. There is no guarantee a nee signing can do that. I am all for generating funds but we do not need to lose our best asset every season. 
 

Of course I agree about better planning. Maybe NP does that. There is still a very real season in front of us that we need to get through first before that can come to fruition. Semenyo makes us better next season. Any money for him is a gamble. The thought of extending him on better terms is to buy an extra season or two while giving him some more financial security. We have some good young ones coming through but not sure I have seen enough from any of them that makes me think they can be difference makers over an entire championship season like Semenyo can. Of course he nowhere near Brownhill level importance based off last season but we are now 18 months on from Brownhill and in a much more dire situation. Semenyo would be a big loss in his own right. 
 

And to reiterate, I have a problem with selling him for under 5m. Everyone has a price. If the guarantees are over 5m I change my stance on this a bit. We have very few saleable assets at present so we need to try and hold on as much as possible. 

On 12/05/2021 at 19:23, Davefevs said:

Or is it just reality that if a prem club comes knocking there’s not a lot you can do about it.

Had it been a straight choice that Eliasson would sign a new contract if you sold Fam, I’d have been all over it like a rash.  But it wasn’t.  As it happens neither player wanted to sign a contract, we managed to get £2.25m for Eliasson and saved a year’s wages.  In Fam’s case we blew £800k in wages and any transfer fee we might’ve got.

In terms of Eliasson’s output (very good number of assists - understatement?), in terms of the influence of results when he played versus when he didn’t was no different.  He didn’t make the 19/20 side better nor worse.  From my point if view we played more one dimensional with him in the team that without…especially when he played RW, cutting in on his left.  Statistically he assisted more per game playing LW than he did RW….I’m not sure why he continually played RW?

Having said all that, I wouldn’t mind having him back. LW in a 4231….I quite fancy that.

 

Other teams hold onto players with interest in their players. Brentford put a high valuation on their players and tend to keep them for 2 good seasons. Preston held onto a lot of their best players for years. There is a better balance to be had with selling players at Bristol City.
 

Selling Semenyo is very short sighted imo. He had a very good first full season at championship level. Factor in all the positions he played and the level of play around him, it makes it even more impressive. We have wages to offer. I’d offer him a new deal on much better terms similar to the contract we gave Brownhill. No guarantee he improves but selling for 3-5m now is not much different to our club as selling him for 2-3m next summer. There is value on the pitch we rarely take into account and Semenyo can offer that 3-5m next season and that may be the difference between relegation and midtable for example. 

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

We sell because we can get a better replacement, in the current market. Maybe more than one. Players who aren't learning on the job and who can fill a specific role immediately - what is Semenyo? A winger, a wide forward, a centre forward? Right here, right now we don't have the time to wait and found out, given the mess we're in.

In a way, he would be a victim of our circumstances if we decided to sell him, although moving to the Premier League would hardly be a hardship.

Personally, I'd sell because I find the idea of Semenyo ever scoring 10-15 goals fanciful in the extreme. 

Not against selling him. Just not for 3m. We are a development club and Semenyo can progress more with us. So we’d be selling in a buyer’s market with an asset that will probably get better. We sell a year too early often. Bryan and Reid understandable. Kodjia and Webster we had leverage. Brentford were able to keep Watkins for more than a season. We need to have a better balance. All that said, we do need to keep an open mind this summer. 
 

Also, who is replacing him? Someone from lower league? What would Semenyo’s stats look like at a Peterborough? It is easy to say sell and get a cheaper and better replacement but in practice it is much much harder. 

I’d rather keep him and risk he doesn’t develop rather than sell him for 3m. 5m maybe but probably lowest I’d go. I’d be looking for 7.5m guaranteed. 
 

Pretty sure he has multiple years left on his deal. Risk it and if he scores 10-15 he is worth more than 3-5m even with a year left. He isn’t a great finisher at the minute and may never be. That said, he gets into good positions often and a bit more composure his goal return could easily go up. We have finally developed him into a championship player, so why sell him? We sell too early too often. Let’s build around some of these players for once. 

Leeds posted 64m loss last season. How did that come into play over their 3 season average? Doesn’t matter because it paid off in the end. 

3 minutes ago, Hxj said:

The accounts reflect the full value of transfer fees agreed in the year.

Any unpaid fees receivable are shown in Debtors, see Note 16 to the accounts.  Any unpaid fees payable are shown in Creditors see Note 18 to the accounts.   These show that the club is owed £24 million in unpaid fees and owes £17 million in unpaid fees, so a net £7 million in cash is due.

Where the transfer agreement contains terms such as additions on appearances or promotions then the estimated value of these is included in contingent assets or liabilities, so do not effect the current financial performance, see notes 27 and 28.  Amount sdue from sell on clauses won't feature in the accounts until the player is sold on.

That is outstanding. Cheers

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, that’s cash flow.  From a pure P&L point of view, their sales are booked in full in these accounts.  Not forgetting in both cases we will have had to pay money to Preston and Ipswich too.

Thanks. How does that work then? It doesn’t seem likely Brighton gave us 20m cash for Webster up front did they? 

7 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

£10m loss last year despite a £25m profit on player trading (Webster, Pack and Brownhill) and £1.7m from match day income.

Next year looks really tricky if we don’t sell anyone for big money and with the loss of match day revenue.

I guess this explains why contract talks are on hold.

I don’t think it is that straightforward on accounts. We will be receiving money for webster and brownhill for the next few years for example. 20m for webster doesn’t go straight onto accounts. It is usually split up for the length of his new contract or some of it. Correct me if I am wrong though @Mr Popodopolous or @Davefevs

He has just turned 21 ffs! He has no academy upbringing so is behind in those terms too. All that and he is our top creator in terms of assists. 
 

For me, the game is too quick for him at the minute. The more he plays the more it slows down. Anyone who has played any sport knows what I mean. It can feel chaotic at times and always feels like you have half a second to react. Over time when you work on it more and replay situations over on your head, that half a second turns into more time than it once did. It allows more time to make decisions. No guarantee it gets to a level where Semenyo is a 20 goal scorer mind you but it will get to the point where he contributes goals. 
 

I said a few weeks back he reminds me of Raheem Sterling a bit. Not the talent level but how people perceive their games. At Liverpool he was a clear talent but no one would have thought he’d score 25-30 goals a season. A lot of that was Pep for sure but it goes to show how much players can improve between their early and mid 20s. Bobby Reid another fantastic example. Some will say these are possibly exceptions to the rule but there are examples all across Europe. 
 

I can’t say for sure Antoine will ever be a top level championship player or premier league calibre. I can say he has all the physical and technical attributes to do so. It is now down to a couple things.

Coaching will be a big part of his development. We brought in people for this. Other than goals Antoine has developed a lot more to his game than we once saw. 
 

Then his mental strength. AS needs to keep working and this is the hard part. He needs to want to be a premier league player. He needs to be able to take the coaching and apply it to games.

He needs time. He needs this season and he will need next. Maybe after then we can start thinking time to move on. This for sure is not the time to get impatient with him. 
 

I disagree. This is a kid who is coming up to speed on professional football. He has 3 very good championship strikers to learn off of as well as two former England youth coaches. He has plenty of time and definitely think he is showing promise in central positions that I did not see before this season. 
 

Sure he is more comfortable at this minute starting wide but definitely think long term he will be will be a central striker. Though do think as a team we are better suited to 433 than 532 and that would mean playing a wider role for now

1 minute ago, Bs4Red said:

That’s fair enough mate, all about opinions possibly worded my opinion wrong but I don’t believe with Vyner at CB we get near being promoted. We’ve all been wrong before.

Happy to hold my hands up when I am wrong but basing on those 11 games so far id say he’s been at fault for a few goals and will be for more over the season. 

Maybe not “out of his depth” but certainly a weak link for me

The good news is getting lost on corners is concentration which I think gets better over time with experience. He is however showing real promise as a defender and with his ability on the ball. The mistakes need to be cut out for sure but that is where games are necessary. He isn’t going to find what he needs on loan or anything like that anymore. This is his next level to sink or swim. At the minute he isn’t really close to sinking but that can change quickly.

I’d like to think he is growing into the role and is better after tonight’s game than game 1 vs coventry. Lets see where he is at Jan 1st before we start making big decisions. Same with Taylor Moore. Lets see where we are with them. If it does not work out hopefully Baker and Mawson are close to returning. Maybe look at loaning one in if need be but for now we need to get behind them as a fanbase and not nitpick imo.

32 minutes ago, Olé said:

Not to make light of what is clearly an escalating situation, but why are football fans always the thing people want to stop first. Icy streets stop football fans. Terrorist threats check football fans jackets. COVID-19 play football behind closed doors.

Meanwhile everyone else do what the **** you like. We were talking about Coronavirus at Leeds away - that's when it was first reported in the UK. A month ago. It had already taken hold in Italy. Did we stop people heading off to ski in Northern Italy?

I haven't left the country for a holiday, I work hard and want to follow my team around England. The last thing I want to do is catch or pass on a virus to the vulnerable, but FFS it's been fine for a different class of people to get their annual ski trip done first.

I get it, big crowds, virus out of control, moving from containment to delay. But there is a sub-text. Football fans are irresponsible, football fans are unhygienic. I could get it on the tube - and more likely too. Why are football fans a different class of big crowd.

Politicians won't bat an eye lid if football fans all end up £100s out of pocket on trains and match tickets let alone season ticket. Meanwhile holidaymakers have a thing called travel insurance and when the government pulls the plug, they get them all home.

Sorry, this is a bit of a misplaced rant, it is a serious situation, I just detest the double standards.

 

 

I get what you are saying but there have been other events cancelled/postponed. Also, it seems like football is taking these measures rather than being told to do so. Maybe advised but football attracts hundreds of thousands to gather every weekend around the country. Not sure any other events can claim that. 

5 hours ago, Wade Wilson said:

Not football but ******* hell its all going off 

 

One of the leagues best players tested positive. They will take that very seriously. Been talking about behind closed doors for awhile. Sad it takes someone getting it to spark action. As much as I would hate it, they need to suspend/behind closed door football immediately. 
 

Also, it doesn’t seem a major illness for the most part but it wouldn't be fair to spread it to those that it would effect the worst. 

Just saw Birmingham City linked with a 6.5m CDM. How is it possible to be docked 9 points for breaches then 6 months later spend that amount on 1 player? Did the 15m for Adams dent their losses that much because we seem to have to sell 10m worth every summer just to start at even 0

1 minute ago, phantom said:

But we are all assuming this isn't the norm? 

Was going to post similar. This could have been done 100s of times before. Hell we have/had French based players that could have travelled like this. Though think his point remains why risk it on what we would perceive as lesser aircraft? It is a good question one that will be raised but after there are more answers