Better Red

The academy’s objective is not to ‘ produce professional players’ that do not benefit this football club. They will except that some players will make it with other clubs thats is a buy product of running it. Its about producing players to be good enough to play at this club and at the moment ‘Championship’ standard or above as the level we are at. To be clear - I am not against the academy far from it. I am just pointing out that when we say players that have come through the academy let’s actually mean it. O’Leary yes goal keepers are diff you have to another on the bench even if they won’t play just in case. they will always get games as a back up and yes he has played at Championship level but and here is the big but - I don’t think he is good enough to be a No1 at this level so I don’t think we have produced a Championship standard goal keeper so I don’t think he is a success for this club. We could just have signed another keeper on a free just to sit on the bench. It’s a game of opinions. Do you think O’Leary is No1 level in the championship?

You are a City fan. Its in your heart for good or for bad. it’s not about how many games you go to, if you have the kit or if you go home and away. Its inside you and will never leave you despite the times you think why do I bother. Its the excitement weather you are there, watching on the TV or listening to the radio. Or going for that walk for the last 5 mins when you just can’t watch or listen because it just might change the result. Its how it will lift up or down your weekend depending on the result. Its the highs, the lows the middle table safety. The new away kit, the new signing and it’s about the OTIB community. its much, much more than just watching the games - Its your club and you love it. So don’t feel guilty. COYR

Do you think he is No 1 standard at Championship level Yes/No ? Do I think he is good enough as a No 2 at this level - No It was even doubting included him as joined at 16

So again joined us very late for the ‘Academy’ product

Not a wind up. Just an opinion. I just put a few facts in to base my opinion on. But just an opinion.

Scott joined us at 17

Simple question - Do you think he is Championship standard or ever will be Yes/No ?

We were discussing recent Academy players post Joe & Bobby as they are now well into their mid/late 20’s But both are ‘ true’ academy players and successful as well.

O’ Leary and Morrell I deliberately left out as I don’t count them as success. O’Leary - Easy one will never play at Championship as a no 1. level is L1 at best - I think we all know that. Not really sure why we gave him game time as not up to this standard. Morrell - Again not playing at Championship level he is back at L1 (back to the criteria we have to create players at Championship level) I get he played for Wales and that makes it more difficult to say a fail but I stick to criteria of being at min of Championship level. So both are ‘not’ success. Apart from the argument about age ( I have said 16+ is not our academy success) I understand some people disagree and that’s ok. If I had to pay £1m for every player that had gone ‘through’ the academy I would be questioned why I am paying for players who joined after 16 as they are not true academy players and would won’t a very large reduction for those players. Is Seymenyo aacademy player ? Joined at us at 18 ? Some may say yes - I am saying no that is not a academy product. People will want to yes because it paints a better picture. I say no because I want the true perspective. Read it again said 16.

A chance to give the squad another run out and keep people match sharp.

Still lots of smaller teams in it. If we can get past Lincoln could have Stevenage/Charlton or MK Dons/Morecombe to get in the last 8 Lots of Ifs but…

Child

What’s narrow about it? Looks spot on to me. Not yet see criteria above.

Our bar is to low if that’s what you are calling success. Lets focus not on the volume of lower league players it’s produced to a degree all academy’s will do that. This is success about Bristol City and the benefit the players we are producing for our benefit Success is a player that has - 1. Has come via the academy and joined before 16. 2. Playing at Championship level or higher. Thats it - it’s pretty simple. We are Championship club so producing L2 players is ‘Not Success’ anymore So with that criteria (which I can only see is fair) we have produced in recent times via the our academy - Kelly, Vyner, Pring and Conway. The rest are to be proven. Yes we are developing players Scott, Massengo, Antoine but they joined very late in the day of there ‘Academy development’ In fact if you look at the list above we would be better off just bringing players aged 16 - 18 and you could bring Pring into the above 3. Only Kelly and Vyner is a true success of the academy and hopefully Pring &Conway will follow as well - I do like both of them. All I am doing is giving you the facts. Sure it does not fit with the academy is brilliant view. But again if the question is are the kids doing well - massive yes If it’s the academy - It’s ok but that is massively impacted because of Kelly. Will it improve in future - hopefully yes then it can change how we answer the question.

Thats not a success list

21 years old signed to be classed as academy success. Are your sure that is what you wanted to say? Because if you are then that sounds wrong by any stretch of the imagination.

But right. Surely you can join the dots up that he has signed for his fathers team without my assistance. Maybe not…. Is this a success list?

He’s gone where his dad is assistant manager. Who knows really how good he is. May never start a league game. Also never even played for us so No not a success. Like I said dig a bit behind the facts and you get a better view what is actually being produced and then you can assess what the academy’s success is.

Still not a success Still not a success

No he’s not a success

He was 18 when he joined us - not having that as an academy product. Might have spotted him and developed etc I do agree with your point - but not academy product that’s more about an under 21’s set up or reserves…. Same goes for Scott. Massengo similarly not academy So in recent times the success for me are - Kelly, Vyner and Conway all def went through the academy and maybe Pring as joined 16. That’s not bad but Kelly does give that a big boost. Hopefully Conway does the same as not sure re Vyner and Pring what will happen when if/they leave us. Others may come through of course and it could look better. At the moment it’s ok but as not as good as some would lead you to believe when you dig into the facts a bit more and understand where the players have come from. Academy vs Kids diff question. Kids - doing pretty well at the moment.

Scott and Seymenyo not really products of our academy both brought in much later

Joe & Bobby are almost 30’s thats not really related to the current crop. Alex Scott and Antoine S- Not really our Academy product as both nearly 18 when joined academy Kelly - Yes and big yes for the academy. O’Leary - not really good enough not sure he is a yes Pring - Joined us at 16 so maybe could include him just. Yes success for me like him. Conway - Yes again for me Benerous - Not sure at this stage Vyner - Is a yes what ever you think of him he is playing regularly at this level. so really last 5 years - you would say Kelly Conway and maybe just on age Vyner and maybe Pring. So maybe if you are critical you would say the success recently players who has been a success as Our Academy - 3 or 4 Kelly, Conway, Vyner and maybe Pring It’s not bad and certainly helped with Tommy making his break through but it’s not as good as some may think when talking about ‘Our’ true academy players. But it does feel like we are getting better at developing younger players even if not true academy products

Not sure the If’s are miles away I did not say if we sign Harry Kane and Haland we could get into top 2…

Of course it’s about ‘if’s’ or we would just be talking about last week….