red panda

6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I agree about the new posters. There seems a whiff of paranoia around here about them - just put 'em on ignore! 

Like I have with you.

As for the highlighted bit - it's a specious argument and you know it - no-one's made him spend that much - he's had too because he keeps making a mess of things - are we supposed to just doff our caps and shut up - etc etc

So as you go back on ignore, I'll leave you with this:

How long does our owner need to get it right if 20+ years isn't long enough? How many chances to get it right does he need - if we had a Centre forward who kept missing chances as regularly as our owner has, would you still keep picking him or would you decide it's time for a new Centre forward? 

What evidence can you provide that SL's massive investment is a specious argument. If you can point me to a long list of Championship clubs being successful and making profits at the same time, or the list of people with City's interest genuinely uppermost in their mind and willing to plough in tens or hundreds of millions into the club, I'll be convinced. 

If we're looking for a bit of turnaround, there's a League One manager that joined a club this season which had gained only one point from their first six games.  Under his stewardship they've gained 12 points from the next nine games.  That's a 700% increase in their points per game.  

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Another thread containing posts saying either something along the lines:

- be careful what you wish for and / or (re SL)

- someone might’ve done better (re Nige)

to frame their agenda with no consideration that:

- it’s possible to have a better owner too

- it’s possible to have done worse too

It’s a very blinkered view.

I haven't replied to one of your posts since you patronised me on another thread (where my only crime was staying on topic).  You post some really good stuff on here.  Might it be better for you to stick to that rather than trying to tell other people how they should frame their posts?  What posts like this ignore is that (a) many of the posts they criticise are actually responses to a previous post, in that context they often make perfect sense (even if you disagree with them), and (b) it's actually quite useful to stick to the topic and not write a lengthy thesis on the wider situation at BCFC complete with a "balanced" listing of all the arguments and counterarguments.

I can see this happening, and moderately positive about it.  For FL, it's a possible chance to resurrect a managerial career.  He wasn't going to turn down Chelsea, but they came calling far too soon in his career.  A bit of a gamble for us, but any appointment would be.  And bringing in a Johnson must be good 

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

He had a big budget at Stoke and failed.

Looking at his record overall. He did really well at Brum - but hasn't done anything that impressive since.

I'd be disappointed if he's appointed. We had a better manager, who has done things in his career, which Rowett hasnt got near to achieving

He joined Millwall, who finished in 21st place in 2017/18, in Oct 18.  He guided them to 8th, 11th, 9th and 8th place finishes, only a point off the playoffs last season.  That must be at least borderline impressive?

Some more balanced posts on here.  I wonder whether NP's managerial career might suggest he's really good at laying foundations, but less good at really getting the very best out of his squads.  There were lots of comments from Leicester fans about NP building the basis of Ranieri's title winning team.  Maybe we could be at a stage where we need our own Ranieri?  Whether that might be Eustace or Rowett is a different question.  But it sure as hell ain't Jones!

Thanks for starting a slightly more nuanced discussion.  I like NP and really wanted him to succeed.  And yes there have been financial constraints and injuries.  But I just can't shake off the feeling that progress was pretty slow and there were too many times when the team seemed like less than the sum of its parts.  Was 14th last season really a good outcome given the players we had?  So I'm sad to see him go, but perhaps something needed to change for us to kick on??

48 minutes ago, PFree said:

Nobody knows what is going on, this is so unfair to both Nigel and the fans, so put some form of statement or interview out ASAP please.

For whatever reason, this whole situation is toxic, and will continue to get worse if the silence continues.

I’ve been a ST holder for over 30 years, and believe me there have been many lows, but at the moment, I feel completely disillusioned.

We simply don't know what's being said inside the club (and it should stay there).  And as others have said, a public declaration of trust in the manager usually precedes a sacking.

43 minutes ago, Antman said:

my big fear is they are happy to sit out this injury crisis without comment, but given a few more losses will sack Pearson as 'not performing'

...

Have you seen who are next two opponents are 

https://poscihd.com/cardiff-city-vs-bristol-city/

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks, that’s tonnes better to debate for or against isn’t it.  That’s not meant to sound patronising at all, there are many things in there I agree with, there are some that I don’t, there are some where there is another side to the argument.  Just about to leave for tonight’s game.  Will come back to later.

Sorry - you failed completely.  Why don't we just leave it there

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If the dog had stopped for a shit, it wouldn’t have won the race.

As for ifs and buts statements like the Cov result, how do you feel about the Stoke result for example?

It’s clear you hold SL in higher esteem than me.  But rather than say we should have more respect, and not criticise, why not explain why you have the view you do - it helps inform a better debate.  You might even change my view / some of my thoughts.  But if you just come up with stuff like “you’re all nitpicking” or “the forum wants its heroes and villains” that just ends up dragging the thread down. and then people start attacking the poster rather than debate the topic.

So, in Monty Python styleee - what have the Lansdown’s ever done for us?

(FWIW I don’t think they are all bad in everything they do, but be good to read your thoughts)

I will respond constructively - just quickly point out that you've attributed to me lots of things I haven't actually said, and then move on.

I'm pressed for time and so some of these may be partly attributable to others, but here goes:

• we need to start with the absolutely obvious, SL's put a huge amount of his own money in
• the infrastructure is so very very much better - Ashton Gate and the HPC being the most obvious examples, and we are enjoying the fruits of previous investment in the academy
• we haven't (yet?) made the Prem, but we were one match away in 2008 and for a while it looked like Lee Johnson might be taking us there.  Even so, we are now an established Championship club, and generally looking up rather than down, a position we could only have dreamed of not that many years ago.  I have too many memories of trips to Gillingham, Northampton and the like not to appreciate the vast difference between now and then
• unless things are going very badly wrong, our managers are usually given quite a lot of time.  That's something that can't be said for many clubs
• there seems to be a received wisdom here that SL is useless at appointing managers, but I disagree.  First it's important to acknowledge that there are not dozens of other clubs out there making successful appointment after successful appointment.  Personally I think many of our managers have been well chosen.  Steve Cotterill and Gary Johnson spring to mind as the most obviously successful, and hopefully NP will join them.  Controversially, I think Lee Johnson was a good appointment and he moved the club forward.  Hindsight is wonderful, but at the time I was really excited when we appointed Derek McInnes, and even Sean O'Driscoll looked good on paper.  Some such as Tinnion and Holden haven't worked out, but I have a lot of respect for both of them and I can absolutely see why people thought it was worth giving them a try.  SL takes a lot of stick for Holden, but I still think we probably dodged a bullet with Chris Hughton and maybe we were in a difficult position once the penny dropped that perhaps Hughton wasn't the Messiah after all. And appointing Paul Simpson and Keith Downing alongside him seemed a good move
• I'm running out of time, there are probably more I could think of.  And there is certainly a long list of things that he hasn't done, such as saddling us with mountains of debt, changing the club colours, trying to change the club name, appointing someone like Joey Barton, taking us into administration, getting points deductions, or selling the club on to an unscrupulous new owner who might do some or all of the above.

Other than that, what have they ever done for us?

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s simple…it’s not just one thing, it a continual build-up of things like this over a period of time, that came to a bit of a head on Saturday post-match.  And that’s what forum are here for.

"things like this" - failing to namecheck NP in one specific quote in a statement about no longer having a CEO (NP is mentioned elsewhere in the statement).  Shocking.  I'm amazed NP didn't walk away immediately

So I disagree that it's "simple".  As I've said in another thread, if we had lost on Saturday, and we deserved to, we would have been 17th in the table and the mood here might have been a bit different.  But the forum wants its heros and villains so please don't let me get in the way of that.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

No…we are looking for obvious signs of disrespect to our manager.

We’ve all done the courses in work where you are asked to spot signs of non-inclusion, being left out etc.  This is just a football version.

It’s clear SL and JL are pissed off…perhaps with good reason (even if just in their eyes)…and they are using opportunities to be a bit “childish”, eg. SL praising Robins.  To give some balance, as big a fan of Nige as I am, I don’t think he’s perfect either.  He’s also resorted to a bit of “childish” comments in response.  On a pure football side of things I don’t think he’s perfect either.

But I’m on the side of Nige over our owners every day of the week, based on my interpretation of what is going on.

Really???

How come we are dissecting the wording of club statement from 20 September?????

17 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

The last line deviates from simply behind the scenes leadership though.

JL says, 'We are excited about this season and believe this is the right approach for us to be successful.'

Why not ' We are excited about this season with manager Nigel Pearson at the helm and believe this is the right approach for us to be successful.'

Or

'We are excited by this season and believe this is the right approach for us 'to make further progress under manager Nigel Pearson.'

Or even, 'We are excited about this season and believe we now have a great team in the background to help further enhance the very encouraging improvements we have seen on the pitch under Nigel Pearson.'

Something? Anything? NP is a part of the leadership after all and really not hard to include him with a supportive mention at the end.

If he's going to mention being 'excited about the season' at all - which he didn't have to - it is a very obvious omission to make no reference at all to NP.

While we're at it, why is the official site bcfc.co.uk rather than npbcfc.co.uk?  Why do we play at Ashton Gate rather Ashton Gate where Nigel Pearson works.

Or are we being a bit sensitive and looking for snubs for NP in every little thing the club does?

46 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Do you actually know what has gone on other than the few words that NP has said? Far too much guess-work going on in this thread which isn't healthy

Indeed - I've given up saying this.  Lots of fellow City fans speculating over what might be happening, and then driving themselves into an unnecessary rage because of these made up stories.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but yesterday's Post story said "He is also out of contract at the end of the season and no formal talks have taken place. Pearson's words at the weekend are also not thought to be linked with that particular situation." (my highlighting).  Is there a chance that we've spent 42 pages and untold fury barking up the wrong tree?

So much speculation, so few facts.  Had Coventry inflicted the defeat that our performance (and let's face it NP's starting line up) deserved, we would now be 17th, looking over our shoulders with 2nd place Ipswich about to arrive.  I suspect this thread would have been a bit different.  Such a fickle game football .....

1 hour ago, OneCity said:

Not our player anymore, so personally I don't care

 

But you do - enough to click on this (clearly titled) thread, and enough to take time out from your busy schedule to post a response 

2 hours ago, paignton red said:

After 55 years of supporting this club, through thick and thin,  that would be me done with them.

OTIB in microcosm.  Someone invents a fictitious scenario and others weigh in to say how disgusted they would be 

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

A tough watch as city owner ! His legacy is bricks & mortar . His football decisions have poor at best . He doesn’t deserve success imo because he’s been too egotistical to seek the right football advice . This goes way before the double mark Ashton debacle . 

I've said this so many times, but there is not a long list of owners out there making perfect managerial appointment after perfect managerial appointment.  Personally I think Derek McInnes and Lee Johnson were good appointments, but realise there are many here who will disagree.  Even Sean O'Driscoll seemed good at the time.  And I think most would agree that Gary Johnson, Steve Cotterill and Nigel Pearson were good appointments.  Other appointments weren't so good, but were arguably worth a punt.  I realise this won't happen, but I'd really like us to drop this myth that all of Steve Lansdown's decisions have been poor.

Marley 

11 hours ago, Olé said:

This always amuses me more than it should because we love to cast football as some kind of basket case. For those of you who have interviewed and hired people, when was the last time you cross referenced prior employers and checked on their financials, awards, or any other measure of performance during the tenure of someone you were interviewing?

People don't, they take prior employers as simply qualifying relevant experience, and form their view based on actual interview. Did I like their answers, did I come away from it feeling like they will add something new to what we do etc? I hate the idea LJ is seen to be gaming the system. Yes he is full of it, but this is how interviews work in literally every single line of business.

Don't hate the player hate the game.

I've done lots of recruitment interviews and they've been invaluable. But I work in a field where individual performance is difficult to assess, there are no win/lose stats or league tables, the candidates haven't already given extensive interviews on national media, the recruitment and tactical decisions they've made haven't played out in front of thousands of spectators plus TV cameras, and there's no way of trying to work out whether in their previous roles they've created coherent, consistent and motivated teams that all know what they are meant to be doing in any situation.

By now, everyone in football should know what LJ is like. There are some things an interview will clarify, such his motivation for that particular job and willingness to work within the intended structure. But if they don't already know LJ's strong and weak points, and fall for his charms during the interview, then they deserve everything that's about to happen to them

22 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Whatever your view on him going from Sunderland to Fleetwood in just over 18 months isn’t a great career trajectory.

Isn't Fleetwood now an established stopping off point in a trajectory that leads to the best job in all of football 

9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That statement right there tells me a lot about your passion for football, understanding of football support and the importance you place on the relationship between a football club and it's community. Those comments are exactly what the modern football club investor/owner wants to hear.........................on the subject of investment some on here and/or their families did follow your definition of investment in this football club in 1982 long before Steve had an interest in football and which enabled there to be a football club for Steve to buy and proclaim as "his"...........

The bit that some of you really cannot get your head round is that it is possible to be absolutely grateful for Steve's financial support, you can recognise his genorosity when he funds the losses and you can also understand completely that he didn't have to invest the money (albeit it is important to recognise he CHOSE to under no duress) whilst, at the same time, casting a critical eye over his decision making on the playing side and financial elements of the club (the ground and training ground developments speak for themselves in the eyes of all but a tiny minority).

When billionaires make statements along the lines of "it's my money, my club" they automatically put themselves up for scrutiny........and to be honest I think that, as the billionaire benefactor overseeing a circa 130 year old sporting institution in Bristol (it really is bigger than HIM but I wouldn't expect you to understand the significance based on your seemingly customer focused views) that is also funded to a much tinier degree by tens of thousands of working class punters, Steve has to put his big boy pants on and accept that scrutiny when he makes such a comment.........and I'm sure he does to be fair.

You could not be more wrong.  The statement tells you absolutely nothing about my passion for football, etc.  You know absolutely nothing about me, how long I've supported the club, the many many miles I've travelled to see them play, etc.  Though there was a clue as my post mentioned watching many games at crappy grounds in the third and fourth tiers.

All the statement tells you is that I know the definition of "investment" (and, just to remind you, I was responding to KITR's bizarre comments about how "tiny" SL's investment is).  Just because I use correct terminology doesn't mean I'm not passionate.

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The reality is that SL has invested a tiny proportion of his wealth. Tiny. 

There will be thousands of us that have invested far more as a percentage of wealth, or in most peoples case salary, than SL. 

If SL does lose the £200m+ he's invested in City (spoiler: he won't) then that's still approx £10m a year, and his wealth has grown at a far higher amount per year since 2002. 

What an unpleasant, ungrateful post.  Whatever the actual amount SL loses (I firmly believe it will be a very large number indeed, and SO WHAT if you think he should have put in even more), he will have left us with a fantastic stadium and an established Championship club.  I've seen far too many poor matches at crappy grounds in the third and fourth tiers not to be grateful for that.  Yes some things haven't worked out, but there is no magic formula for appointing successful managers, effective CEOs, great players that other clubs somehow don't want (and who want to come here), etc.

Personally I've invested precisely ZERO in the club.  I've paid for many many admission tickets, in return for which I've been able to watch games.  Some have been magical and some have been dire, but you know the range of possibilities when buying the ticket.  I've also paid for and received other City-related products.  But these are payments for goods/services, not investments

26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Dumb post. He will sell the club and AG for a significant amount of money, recouping much of what he has put in. The remaining money he'll "lose" will be seen by him as a bargain for the prestige, interest and soft power we have brought him and H&L. He has said as much himself. 

SL is currently a non-UK citizen and his son and our chairman lives in Bermuda. What difference exactly if a new owner lived in the US or the Middle East? Do you have a specific problem with people from these parts of the world?

As for supporting Rovers, you can **** right off. 

Even dumber post, and trying to make out a fellow City fan to be some kind of racist (or at least someone a "specific problem" with people from the Middle East and/or US) is beneath contempt.

There is a enormous difference between SL (who has happens to live in Guernsey but has very very strong historical links with Bristol and Bristol City) and a random overseas investor with no previous connection to us.  I don't know, but it's a pretty reasonable guess that the poster chose US and Middle East because many current/recent owners of other clubs come from those regions. 

SL has consistently shown his willingness to continue funding the club even when the likelihood of any imminent financial return is pretty close to zero.  Can we be confident that a random overseas owner who might well have no previous connection to City or the city will do the same if we don't get promoted to the Prem after a small number of years?  I certainly am not.

There is a blindingly obvious difference between SL/JL and a new owner from US/Middle East/somewhere else in the world.  But I'm sure you are already aware of that and just wanted to post something nasty.