Leveller

3 hours ago, NickJ said:

Saw that inteview, Wilbs was careful what he said but plainly thought LJ was not someone he could take seriously. I've heard, and heard of, other players take the piss also.

He's a blagger and doesn't in general command respect as a football manager, because he is is the reincarnation of David Brent.

Blamed losing 3 league games at Hibernian to inferior opposition on "fixture congestion", caused by a "European run" which involved beating a team from Andorra and another from a  small Swiss town.

There are 2 teams in Scotland "bigger" than Hibs, and 2 others more less the same, and yet he managed to lose more games than he won during around 50 games in Scotland, despite being given, by their standards (where have we heard this before), a transfer budget which far exceeded previous managers.

Measured by win ratio, his most successful period as a manager was at Sunderland - where with the resources of that club in division three Mike Bassett would have got them promotion. And yet Sunderland sacked him while they were in the play-off positions. Why? It came immediately after a 6-0 defeat, but there was more to it than that. 

Wherever he goes, he's an unusually divisive figure, but judging by what I've read, mainly disliked and/or ridiculed. How can somebody possibly be a successful manager under those circumstances?

If Fleetwood are mad enough to gve him the job, they will probably be relegated, or he will be sacked before that happens. I'd like to say that will then be the end of it, but he will pop up again at somewhere like Newmarket having bamboozled some unfortunate non league chairman, still convinced he's a future England manager in waiting.

 

As a matter of record, LJ was Sunderland’s third manager in League One. Jack Ross got them into the playoffs but they didn’t get promoted. Phil Parkinson didn’t even manage the playoffs. LJ got into the playoffs but didn’t get promoted. Alex Neil got into the playoffs and got promoted. Nobody got them automatic promotion. So LJs record was little different from their other three managers.

1 hour ago, Bedred31 said:

There’s route one and then there was Beck. Most soul destroying football I ever watched. His tactic, actually, was to over water the corners, so that the ball would stop when the goalkeeper punted it forwards. The left/right back would invariably kick it into touch, whereupon Cambridge would produce a long throw into the box. That was literally it- big kick, splash, throw into the box. I liked Wimbledon but this was truly awful.

I’m sure you’re right about the watering - he probably did that and the long grass thing too. It doesn’t alter my point about LJ.

8 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

Totally agree, he’s a charlatan 

Chances are, he’ll take the job, improve them slightly, avoid relegation, and everybody will still be arguing whether he’s average or terrible!

On 08/09/2023 at 10:20, Davefevs said:

I read a book by Ben Smith, a player who’d been a lower league / National League player and I can’t remember at which non-league club it was where he signed, but it was a pro contract, so he got paid over the summer.  He’d been on a non-league contract and his pay ended in May over previous summers.  With a mortgage that contract gave him a lot of security.  It certainly showed the non-glam side of being a pro footballer in the lower reaches of the league.

Has anyone else read Jonathan Sayer’s book (“Nowhere to run”, I think) about buying Ashton United?

They’re a Manchester club in tier 7, and JS and his dad decided to take over, being genuine long term fans.

For context, Jonathan is one of the actor/writers behind the “Goes Wrong” plays and TV shows, so is relatively well off, but knew little about football admin, except from a fan’s perspective. This isn’t exactly the Wrexham scenario though!

Its an interesting read, but not as funny as I’d hoped. It does shed some light on non league management and recruitment though, in particular the difference between contract and non contract players. It’s also good on the angst that owners can suffer when faced with bad decisions and pure bad luck.

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

= groundsman

= officials

 

do you think LJ went into the dressing room and said “I’ve measured the grass it’s 23mm, rather than 22mm today, make sure you hit the passes a bit firmer”?

he probably did, and they probably laughed / retorted “yeah we know that, I just hit a few passes in the warm-up”.

He very probably did. Let’s not forget that LJ was born in Newmarket and spent his childhood watching Gary who was assistant to John Beck at Cambridge United, during their phenomenal rise up the league.

Now Beck’s tactics may have been derided, but they were based on analysis that was light years ahead of most other coaches, which led him to believe that direct football was the route to success. And of course it was, up to a point.

As you well know, Beck used every trick in the book to find “marginal gains”, tricks which have become legend, many being to unsettle the opposition before they even got on the pitch. One of his tricks was to order the groundsmen to leave the grass longer in the corners of the pitch, so the ball would hold up more, helping his wingers get in crosses to Dion Dublin and John Taylor.

So it’s highly likely that LJ’s views on marginal gains derived from his experience of Beck’s methods, either directly or via Gary. And he would have been aware that other managers might follow Beck’s example so the grass would be at different lengths in different places. Thus, relying on players’ instinct during the warm up could be seen as over simplistic and a bit late in the day.

I think the story originated in this article by Gregor McG in 2017, actually an interview with McAllister.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jamie-mcallister-explains-bristol-city-704346

‘The Bristol Post asked how the different height of the grass might influence the game plan.

"It can do [influence a tactic]. If the grass is a bit long then you might be able to leave it [the ball] in the corner a bit more, it'll hold up," explained McAllister.’

The article also uses the “marginal gains” phrase. So the echoes of John Beck are clear. JB wasn’t popular, but his attention to detail clearly left its mark.

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, you don’t need a micrometer, you just need to hit two or three passes pre-game to know how it’ll play.

And some surfaces will be patchy anyway so what’s the point.

 

Measuring the length of the grass is the equivalent to telling a load of eastern-bloc swimming coaches in the 1970s that Mark Spitz’s success was down to his moustache and the reduced drag-effect it had on him.  Wow.  Revolutionary.  At the next international competition all his opponents turned up with moustaches, only for the coach to tell them he’d made it up!

Well they better had measure the grass, considering there are rules about how long it should be. 

16 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

The rip it up and start again system just shows he’s not confident in what he’s actually doing, despite all the bullshit, the measuring grass and all that stuff means he’s trying to come across as to clever to hide his deficiencies 

I’m never quite sure why people make fun of measuring the grass. Clearly it’s an important factor in playing passes along the ground. We also water the pitch just before every kick off, presumably to ensure the ball zips over the surface. Nobody jokes about that. It’s known that some hoofball clubs leave the grass long in certain areas, isn’t it? And I believe Arsene Wenger used to go on about it too.

On 06/09/2023 at 11:28, shahanshahan said:

New arrival!

 

Interesting to see that Lauren Jones and Carrie Jones are both from Newtown, so there’s probably  a long-standing connection. Also where my Dad was from.

23 minutes ago, phantom said:

Correct and have been approved for the additional 900, to take them to max league capacity we are giving this season

An interesting debate that was highlighted to me last night, those saying about we should not give so many tickets to the away fans. How many went to Swansea (and took over the Liberty) and are going to Leicester? Both times we have been given large allocations

Exactly. There’s quite a lot of hypocrisy here - people want small away crowds at Ashton Gate but large away crowds when we travel. Understandable but illogical.

On another issue, for those who want home and away fans in the Atyeo - genuine question - does the concourse allow segregation if the seats are divided up?

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You are this forum's Ned Flanders

Hated for being nice. I’ll take that. Apart from me being a rabid atheist of course.

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

Cmon Philly... whilst you're correct people shouldn't judge others on what they wear, the context here is totally different. 

The ' look' they've gone for, especially with faces covered so not to be recognised ( there's a reason for that, and it's not because they are covered in acne) is to associate themselves with a football culture that's related to enjoying a bit of a ruck. 

It distinguishes them away from the ' normal ' fan and ' shirters'. 

' Getting the badge in'...kid on right...it all points to a culture. 

It's been the same as others have implied over the years. A culture that wore certain clothing at football matches to distinguish themselves. 

And their were some proper clown looks during the 70s as has been mentioned. 

Whilst this imo isn't about a fascist thing...it's definitely a look and trend being copied from the ' Ultras' abroad. 

A bunch of kids following a football trend, that so many have done in the past, that will eventually grow up and see how silly it all is...' but was fun at the time'. 

So many have been there before and voice experience. 

 

Thank you for explaining my point more clearly than I did. I’m not suggesting these kids are fascists (which I said before) nor do I know if they are actual fighters. However, they are consciously associating themselves with a fighting culture (surely this is hard to deny) and also with Bristol City. I find that unpleasant. I’m aware that some on here disagree and are far more accepting of a certain level of violence.

16 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Embarrassing post 

Why?

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

For one game a season, you have to have a membership, and with a cap on the number of reserved tickets, yes perhaps. I'd be happy to pay extra for that priority btw, bit not ST levels of extra.

Out of interest, if you’re local, can you get tickets in the home areas, or do Leicester sell out?

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Now you’re really being weird…..people who wear black are Italian fascist associates and also sex offenders?
I best update my wardrobe and remove said coloured items. You must know about associations of which I’m not aware.   
Hope you’ve never been to Copenhagen as all black is practically a uniform over there for the young and well dressed! 

If you don’t know about the links between Italian Ultras and neo fascists, that’s not my fault, nor is it weird. Nor of course the echoes of the British Union of Fascists (the Blackshirts) under Oswald Mosley. Not all Ultras are fascists, but some are, and the look is not just a coincidence.

These kids of course may well also be unaware and blindly following a fashion. But the masks and Casuals tag suggest a desire to link with violence and that’s enough to condemn them in my eyes.

2 hours ago, lenred said:

In your opinion.  I’m guessing you are an incredibly snappy dresser then given how you think these guys are so embarrassing?  

It’s nothing to do with being well dressed - it’s the association of the Ultra look with Italian fascists (and the masks with sex offenders.) Apart from that I’m sure they’re very neat.

2 hours ago, phantom said:

So you judge people by the way they dress?

Incredible that someone could feel that strongly about them

Yet OTIB goes into meltdown if a naive away fan wears their team’s shirt in “our” stand, with plenty of contributors honestly opining that they deserve to get attacked. Double standards.

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

 

How are they an embarrassment? 

Simple - they look stupid and pathetic and they’re associating themselves with our club. If it was a photo of teen Gasheads dressed like that there would be a storm of mockery on here. As there has been in the past.

20 minutes ago, phantom said:

I was going to say the same, at the end of the day they are also Bristol City supporters, fair play to them for supporting the club

Are we really that shallow that we are passing judgement about how people choose to dress at a game

Quite happy to judge people if they’re an embarrassment to the rest of us.

1 hour ago, grifty said:

So with such a difference in the way footballers trained, etc it would make sense to differentiate the eras.

Maybe we could use the rebranding of the top division as the marker for the modern era?

They were crap!

Some were crap, some weren’t. Just like now.

1 hour ago, grifty said:

It's common for records to be grouped into smaller/more recent increments to give it some context i.e. last 5 years, 10 years, since the Premier League began, post-war, etc.

Not sure why so many people get upset about it.

To be fair, if todays strikers got to shoot against the goalies of that time, they'd all get 50 a year easily.

What do you think was particularly wrong with goalkeepers back in the day? Do you suppose Pickford is better than Gordon Banks was, for example? I appreciate some are now very big and no doubt fitter

5 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

One defeat in five. 

Maybe we aren't absolutely awful, and in need of 100 new signings, after all...

That’ll be the away squad you’re talking about.

4 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

You must be nuts if you don’t want owners like Newcastle or Man City,

No way this club, or any others will see success without money like that. 

Money like that can’t be used within FFP unless you actually have the turnover that big crowds or EPL TV income produce.

56 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

South West/West Country clubs occupying seven out of the top ten in NLS after today. Only Weymouth letting the side down in 15th.

Still worth a double take seeing Taunton Town above Yeovil!

Charlton have won one match and had lost four on the trot. Guess who Bristol Rovers’ only win of the season was against?

6 minutes ago, Ziderarmy said:

So the XG can never be higher than 1.0 then? 

Presumably for a single chance,no. But for match it could be several.