big p

Just now, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Weird. You support people who refuse to comply just for the sake of it, even if it doesn’t marry with what you.

I support the freedom of choice. Not to be forced into something they don't want. 

22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

You don't really understand vaccines do you?

They aren't implants, that stay inside you for years. All they are is a wake up call to your immune system. After a day or so, it's just your own bloodstream doing all the clever stuff about remembering a pathogen.

It isn't the Manchurian Candidate - your immune system won't suddenly kill you 10 years after you've had an injection.

And it isn't a case that "nobody knows this". People do know this, because the basic mechanism for ALL vaccines is the same. And we've had mass vaccination campaigns since the 1950s; campaigns that have eradicated a number of dangerous diseases from the West.

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Look in a way, I share some of your doubts as to whether a Vaccine Passport should really be necessary at AG. I certainly can imagine the government and our club buggering up the implementation!

HOWEVER, if it decides it is, it isn't "blackmail and coercion". Your life doesn't depend on watching City live. No one's does.

AG is a private premise. It has always had rules that govern entrance: Some set by the FA or the government; some set by the club.

If it's decided it's necessary to keep people safe at a time that our infection rate is the highest in the world (and despite the fall over the last 7 days, it still is) then I think we have to live with it.  It will not be forever.  It is unlikely to be for very long at all. The last thing clubs want is to turn any potential customers away.

It certainly isn't worth having some libertarian tantrum over. 

Do you really understand? Please research 2010 Avian Flu H1N1 vaccine Pandemrix. This had class act lawsuits against Glaxo Smith Kline which apparently caused Narcolepsy... So you can really understand why some people are sceptical about new vaccines.

22 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

So you say.....

Oh hello again, looks like you're the conspiracy theorist now.  

1 minute ago, lenred said:

And as a 19 year old (who you quoted earlier) you are treated as an adult - can go to war, marry, buy a house etc etc etc so you can make a choice to have a vaccine. My 21 year old sister in law has as have her pals - slightly older I know but still……..she’s not been blackmailed into it but chosen to have it to protect her and her family and her friends and fellow students etc……

Regards babies and children I would need to see what the official NHS and medical advice was and take it from there but if it’s safe for them to do so then yes of course. Likewise if it is deemed they shouldn’t have it or there is no need for them to have it then I will likewise respect that. 

No reason, I just had an inkling that you might say you were in favour... Thanks for the very insightful conversation Goto to go now.

1 minute ago, lenred said:

I could start up a new set of arguments here easily but tbh it’s been done to death and rightly you are allowed your opinion and we’ll just never agree.  I do find your staunch position strange given you’ve been happy to have it yourself mind, but at least in that respect you are protecting yourself and your family, friends, NHS and fellow citizens so good on you for that.  Have a good rest of your day.  

My position is that to have it is my choice, and I will never impose pressure on someone to have against their will. Never!

Quick question before I go, are you in favour in babies and kids having it?

21 minutes ago, lenred said:

There is no blackmail and no coercion - it’s for the good of all of us that as many people as possible take up the vaccine. For those who don’t its their personal choice. 

Of course there is, no one knows what the implications of this vaccine will be in 10 years, no one!

Hopefully there won't be any side effects 

So to say to healthy 19 year old kids if you don't have your vaccine then you probably won't be able to go in a nightclub come September is not only morally wrong but blackmail.

Kids are not here to protect us we as parents are here to protect them,in my opinion but clearly its not general the consensus within this group. And that's OK, we should be allowed differing opinions.

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

I love life thank you, far from ‘shitting myself behind my sofa’  I’ve been to lots of events since ‘freedom day’ () - cricket, football and tennis - the key point to me being all of these events required people to prove a negative  test or a covid passport. Seems people are now faking negative tests and so it’ll have to go down the passport route for now for those that are able to have the vaccine - it’s very very simple and if you don’t want to comply that’s your choice. 

Good on you, but I will always try and stand by people who refuse to comply. Its their choice and for what ever reason they don't comply quite frankly its no ones business... But the blackmail and coercion is disgusting.

4 minutes ago, pillred said:

There used to be as saying that went round a few years ago that went "you can't educate pork" Big P is one of those examples, the facts stare him in the face yet still he doesn't want to accept them. 

I've been double jabbed .. Christ sake please catch up.

Just now, MarcusX said:

Again, do yourself and your case no favours when writing things like this. Who is "sitting in front of the bbc" (probably taken straight from a social media meme)? 

Please, find someone, anyone, that believes, trusts or otherwise supports this government in this thread? 

Spouting utter nonsense repeated from your rabbit hole youtube videos, and because you've got no further substance than those intial soundbites you can't actually participate in a reasoned debate.

Some things that are questioned by the anti-vax / anti-gov / truth seekers whatever you want to call yourselves, are valid but you dont seem able to debate them. As I said in a previous post, it's all or nothing with you guys.

At least some like @Baba Yaga and @LoyalRed who have differing views are able to debate, and at times they might get picked apart (often by several people at once unfortunately) if they post something that's factually questionable but generally their opinions are respected (they may think otherwise ) and they make some fair points.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know my purpose in life was to appease people I don't know hiding behind an avatar on a forum I rarely contribute. OK I'll change my stance and get a season ticket and produce a covid passport... OK !

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

You are just full of nonsense I’m afraid. People have tried to engage with you in an adult conversation but time and again you either can’t prove or even back up to any extent your argument, write childish responses (see new items above) or just write rubbish which is immediately disproved to which you then get upset and or defensive about.  This is a common theme across most anti vaxxer contributions I see across social media and in discussion threads.  No one here is ‘shitting themselves behind the sofa’ just wanting to do what is right and proper based upon the facts available. 

How the bloody hell can I be an antivaxer, when I've been double jabbed :laugh:... I'm really struggling to understand some people here.. Believe what you like and enjoy life but please stop being angry. It's such a waste of energy.

4 minutes ago, Super said:

Take the others with you.

Because people have differing opinions, what a weird bunch of people are in this group...Will we be proven right probably, maybe not. But one thing is certain people like you will be sitting in front of the BBC news waiting for the daily case count( which is completely odd to me) believing all the bullshit they spill to you. Unable in any capacity to question anything the media/government tells you.. Sit down dont wear a mask, stand up you wear it, yes sir...

lots of us who are questioning the narrative have been living safe and happy lives, whereas some people are still sh*ting themselves behind the sofa...

26 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

big P your logic is spot on, fear and paranoia blinds reason and logic. The media has turned its back on facts which is not a one way traffic. With respect to you, you’re at a lost cause for those who don’t want see or hear, but good luck if you can wake their awareness 

I think I am :laugh:, time to leave the convo.

46 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

According to Big P, there are 10s of millions of them. Which is pretty terrifying. 

There are 10's of millions of people protesting against the loss of freedoms , You won't see it on the BBC news for obvious reasons, but of course there are all sorts of people there, good and bad.

I'm getting the feeling you are either on a wind up,:laugh:. Or cant grasp any other narrative than the one you have been spoon fed for the last year, which of course is a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome.  I really hope its not the latter.

Just now, lenred said:

Tell us why, in this instance, we shouldn’t then? You can’t as you’ve been asked many many times 

Do some research, start with the covid human rights Bill they tried passing through government, in the midst of a pandemic..

This bill would give government agents (m15, food standard agents, environmental health etc) the power to be exempt to prosecution against any criminal act. Including murder, rape (No age stated), theft, fraud, drugs... And this is just the start.

Anyway enjoyed the lively discussion. I'm out.

10s of millions protesting around the world, they all must be crazy antivaxxers .. :laugh:

To parrot over and over again what the government wants you to say and believe is testament to the fantastic job they have done. Roll on 2023.

The blind faith you guys have in governments and the media machine is fascinating. Good luck is all what I will say..

2 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Thanks but y have to spend £35 or more. Which is a lot more than my £20ish Aldi shop!

Sainsbury's are expensive.

I'm confused as to why you'd say "for ****s sake" to that 

 Because you said the delivery driver could give you it yet you go to a supermarket....

Anyway this isn't my argument, my concern is covid passports.

Just now, frenchred said:

so why didn’t you renew?

 

I've explained this several times.

Just now, frenchred said:

care to tell us why you never renewed before all this came. to light?

maybe you need to bang your head a bit harder!

Haha, nice one.

1 minute ago, Redinthehead said:

But it's not about you. It's about others and reducing the spread, that's it. No conspiracy, no need for 'what about this', just a measure to reduce the spread that makes sense to anyone who's looked at how this virus transmits.

You just asked me a question and I answered.

2 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Hmm away all you like. But your arguments are ridiculous.

I am not very wealthy and so paying delivery charges is not something that is really available to me. Plus there's just as much chance the delivery driver has covid.

FFS

3 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

And you never go near big crowds in stadiums at all? This is a nonsense argument.

I'm not worried about big crowds, I would gladly renew my season ticket but not if they use Covid passports.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall.

12 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yet I have the NHS app on my Android phone. Very handy for booking appointments and ordering repeat prescriptions I find.

I think you may be getting confused with the original government inspired Covid-19 app that was going to be 'world beating' but was junked because it was no good.

I'm taking about the covid passport, pretty sure the NHS app will evolve in to the covid passport.

3 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

My wife is at serious risk from covid, so no I'm not going to pubs.

There's not much choice when it comes to supermarkets, we have to eat. 

But me going to a supermarket so we don't starve to death does not invalidate my belief that it's perfectly fine for venues/the government to require people have the vaccine to enter a stadium.

 

If anything all he has done there is make a good argument that we should have covid passports for supermarkets as well.  

Oh right, so you're willing to take the chance in a Supermarket when you can get food delivered. But people should always use a passport for churches, cinemas, football stadiums. Hmm.