Monkeh Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Dont get me wrong - not suggesting that we should'nt loan him or sign him. But just pointing out the contradiction millen is making. yea but we have a major injury crisis at the back so its understandable that Spence's loan has been extanded, Or whould we play hunt or an unfit wilson/riberio at right back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Jordan Spence can play centre back, and many West ham fans feel he is better in that position. Agree though, if we're going to give youngsters a chance, why not now? Can't think of a better time, as we're safe annd not going to make the play-offs. No we are not and yes we could. Until both of these are mathmatically certain, then Millen has a responsability not to be wreckless with team selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No we are not and yes we could. Until both of these are mathmatically certain, then Millen has a responsability not to be wreckless with team selection. Okay, fair point. However, after the next 3-4 games both could be mathematically impossible and surely there would be no better time to blood a couple of the youngsters? That could still leave 4 or 5 games where we have this option. Enough time for 1 or 2 to prove they have what it takes to be considered for the first team squad. They would then have a full pre-season to blend in and bring fitness levels up to the same standards as more senior players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Okay, fair point. However, after the next 3-4 games both could be mathematically impossible and surely there would be no better time to blood a couple of the youngsters? That could still leave 4 or 5 games where we have this option. Enough time for 1 or 2 to prove they have what it takes to be considered for the first team squad. They would then have a full pre-season to blend in and bring fitness levels up to the same standards as more senior players. Yes, when that is the case i would agree. I thought that the season before last with GJ in charge. The last 4/5 games i think it was, we were safe and had no chance of the play-offs, but i don't think a single youngster had a decent run out. Unfortunately you can just see it on here, if Millen bloods say 3 youngsters in "meaningless" remaining fixtures and results were poor then there would be people slating our form. People will probably reply saying "no i wouldn't", but we all know there would be some - because nothing is ever right if results are not favourable. I think Millen has expressed enough times recently that he wants a strong finish to the season as it breeds confidence going into pre-season and the new campaign. Plus, when trying to keep/secure players such as Maynard, Albert & Caulker plus potential new signings, a strong and positive final league placing will be a powerfull tool in making us an attractive proposition. I'm sure after the season we have had, everyone will be delighted if we can secure 10th place or better. That said, seeing a few youngsters on the bench would be nice and have the ability to blood them once a game is won or lost with 10/20 mins to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 That said, seeing a few youngsters on the bench would be nice and have the ability to blood them once a game is won or lost with 10/20 mins to go. I think we'd all like to see some youngsters on the bench with maybe a 5 min debut but there aren't any available. We haven't got any youth to throw into the deepend at the moment. Wilson not match fit, Edwards not match fit, Lennox loaned, Riberio is apparently not match fit, Jackson won't get past all the current strikers in the squad. No idea how the Irish lads are doing but we've heard very little about them recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No we are not and yes we could. Until both of these are mathmatically certain, then Millen has a responsability not to be wreckless with team selection. I'll bet you anything that we won't go down and we won't make the play-offs. There's mathematical possibility and there's sheer lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Indeed. Same people find any reason to moan at Keith, results are going well, so have to nit pick at something else and will continue to do so regardless of whether we go forward or backwards, those people are as bad as Robbored was when Johnson was in charge, I'm sure when we are 100% safe (which is almost the case) then youngsters will get some chances, to be honest I still think the aim for the rest of the season is a top half finish, to add some respectability to the season, once we have done that, the last few games will hopefully see some experiements and perhaps it dosen't help when some people constantly blowing unwarranted smoke up his arse on any pretext, also I can't recall the sort of vitriol about Millen that RR aimed at Johnson, so nowhere near the same. I think the major problem some people have/had with Millen's appointment was that he was a direct link with the previous 2 years of dross in fact he was the coach/assistant manager and the coaching appears to have been as much a problem as the poor signings (some of whom contrary to the belief of some Millen must have had some input in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yes, when that is the case i would agree. I thought that the season before last with GJ in charge. The last 4/5 games i think it was, we were safe and had no chance of the play-offs, but i don't think a single youngster had a decent run out. Unfortunately you can just see it on here, if Millen bloods say 3 youngsters in "meaningless" remaining fixtures and results were poor then there would be people slating our form. People will probably reply saying "no i wouldn't", but we all know there would be some - because nothing is ever right if results are not favourable. I think Millen has expressed enough times recently that he wants a strong finish to the season as it breeds confidence going into pre-season and the new campaign. Plus, when trying to keep/secure players such as Maynard, Albert & Caulker plus potential new signings, a strong and positive final league placing will be a powerfull tool in making us an attractive proposition. I'm sure after the season we have had, everyone will be delighted if we can secure 10th place or better. That said, seeing a few youngsters on the bench would be nice and have the ability to blood them once a game is won or lost with 10/20 mins to go. Thats my thinking behind it and I'm sure its prolly millens thinking on it as well, What we have to remember is the recent crop of youngsters have not been anywhere near good enough for the championship, Its easy to say give youth a chance but harley aside can anyone hand on heart say any of the youngsters we've let go in the last 4 years have been good enough, people we're raving about Tristan Plummer to play where is he now, Ryan Stabolsivski (or how ever you say it) he's playing in the greek second div now, We can critise the club and previous managers for not playing youngsters but we really haven't had that many good ones have we?, That said I mentioned a few above who I rate from what I've seen of them these should be bench players only and given a 10 minute run out to aid in their devlopment only, which is what millen is trying to say imo, We can't field a team filled with 17 and 18 year olds and expect to compete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'll bet you anything that we won't go down and we won't make the play-offs. There's mathematical possibility and there's sheer lunacy. It may not even be possible to get a set of results that would result in us getting relegation...... 8 teams below us would all have to get 50 for starters - I'm not sure it would be mathematically possible when you consider teams play each-other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Just sounds like everything we`ve done for god knows how long - just repackaged. Try and reduce the size of the 1st team squad but boost it by giving a handful of youth players 1st team contracts. What it hasn`t addressed is the issue of why so few players seem to have benefited from our set-up. Surely unless the root issues are resolved then dressing it up any way you like isn`t going to make the blind bit of difference. I appreciate we`re not going to keep churning them out but just one would be nice. The Emporors new clothes me thinks. PS Not a KM bashing post. PDG Exactly the way I see it, every manager we have ever had in my memory has said the same and very few have actually achieved it. Fred Ford achieved it to small degree, Alan Dicks definately achieved it, Terry Cooper achieved it, Wilson achieved as far as numbers were concerned but unfortunately Wilson was/is tactically naive and a poor motivator. There is a perennial problem if we are fighting a) a relegation battle they are not ready, if we are b) in the promotion hunt they are not ready, if we are mid table then relegation or promotion maybe a possibility so a & b applies, so perhaps the actual answer is they ain't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 What a load of rubbish is being spoken on here. just because we have a few players that happen to be 19 years old does it make them good enough? If KM and Wiggles have seen these players, day in day out, and are not playing them, there is a reason. Give youth a chance.. Jordan Spence is 20 and Caulker 19. Hmmm KM has shown he will give youth a chance if they are good enough. He gave Ribs a launch, but the player has been injured. He may keep James Wilson on, but he is now 22. The last reserve match was a lot about deciding the futures of our 'development squad' and the simple fact is the vast majority are not good enough to become promotion quality players. A good number are probably ok for a L2 team, some maybe L1. Our requirements are now much higher, and that means it is harder to find the right balamce. If we had a Wayne Rooney he would have been spotted by the top flight playing for our Academy. In anycase keeping Spence is also IMHO with a view to signing him in the summer. That is a very interesting and good point, We do have an England Under 21 coach as our assistant he sees the lads in training week in week out and he's not telling millen to pick them, That does tell us somthing about our current crop, Didn't think of that, not taken it away from the future tho' as the under 17's we have some very good players who could do somthing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'll bet you anything that we won't go down and we won't make the play-offs. There's mathematical possibility and there's sheer lunacy. .... and you expect a fully quaified, NPC manager to see it that way and start experimenting BEFORE our fate is mathmatically decided?! I would love to see your reaction if he did this and we lost every game and went down!! There is a time and place to experiment with blooding untried youngsters. Whilst there is still a chance (however small) of still going either up or down, let alone both, this is not the right time. In a few games, when things are more certain, but not yet! I don't harbour any thoughts of making the play offs. I agree, talk of that is boardering on lunacy. However, i would be extreemly pissed off, if whilst it was still possible, that the management and players were not at least attempting to achieve it. Stranger things have happened. Just ask Hull & Blackpool fans if they wish they had experimented with team selection before anything was certain about the outcome of their seasons previous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 and perhaps it dosen't help when some people constantly blowing unwarranted smoke up his arse on any pretext, also I can't recall the sort of vitriol about Millen that RR aimed at Johnson, so nowhere near the same. Two points. 1) Millen as assistant did not have the final word in the same way Wigley doesn't have the final word now. 2) When Johnson was in charge the season after play-off final by October/November of that year is was obvious to me that things weren't getting better. One decent spell post xmas kept City out of trouble. I felt from then on that whilst Johnson remained that City would not progress and we had almost another season of the same dross. Stagnation in other words. I have not felt like that with Millen in charge, despite some awfull performances and results earlier in the season. I have always had confidence that he would come good and said very early in the season that City would avoid the drop and finish mid table on the back of that confidence. Hardly 'blowing unwarrented smoke' up Millen's arse. It called trusting your own gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 and the higher up the league you finish the more money you get, Here we go again. Proof? Link to Football League website which confirms this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Two points. 1) Millen as assistant did not have the final word in the same way Wigley doesn't have the final word now. 2) When Johnson was in charge the season after play-off final by October/November of that year is was obvious to me that things weren't getting better. One decent spell post xmas kept City out of trouble. I felt from then on that whilst Johnson remained that City would not progress and we had almost another season of the same dross. Stagnation in other words. I have not felt like that with Millen in charge, despite some awfull performances and results earlier in the season. I have always had confidence that he would come good and said very early in the season that City would avoid the drop and finish mid table on the back of that confidence. Hardly 'blowing unwarrented smoke' up Millen's arse. It called trusting your own gut feeling. Two points 1) Millen was still the coach and the manifestation of that coaching on the pitch was woeful. 2) You had made your mind up re- Johnson long before the season after the play off season and that was not a gut a feeling, that was something else. I was unhappy about Millen's appointment and I still have reservations but I have never thought he would take us down and I have never called for his sacking, my main problem is what you said stagnation or same old same old and in the main that is what we have seen for 'most' of this season. Next season no amount of excuses will wash, he's got to prove that we can compete in this league and be there or thereabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 You say Louie Spence is here to cover the whole backline but I'd bet good money he does not play anywhere but right back. I've seen you refer to him as 'Louie' Spence several times now. As no one else seems to have questioned it, can you enlighten me as to the reason? His name's Jordan, and everyone one else seems to call him that, so why do you keep calling him Louie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I've seen you refer to him as 'Louie' Spence several times now. As no one else seems to have questioned it, can you enlighten me as to the reason? His name's Jordan, and everyone one else seems to call him that, so why do you keep calling him Louie? Perhaps his limp wristed performance against Norwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 What a load of rubbish is being spoken on here. just because we have a few players that happen to be 19 years old does it make them good enough? If KM and Wiggles have seen these players, day in day out, and are not playing them, there is a reason. Give youth a chance.. Jordan Spence is 20 and Caulker 19. Hmmm KM has shown he will give youth a chance if they are good enough. He gave Ribs a launch, but the player has been injured. He may keep James Wilson on, but he is now 22. The last reserve match was a lot about deciding the futures of our 'development squad' and the simple fact is the vast majority are not good enough to become promotion quality players. A good number are probably ok for a L2 team, some maybe L1. Our requirements are now much higher, and that means it is harder to find the right balamce. If we had a Wayne Rooney he would have been spotted by the top flight playing for our Academy. In anycase keeping Spence is also IMHO with a view to signing him in the summer. These 2 also belong to other clubs. All I want to see is our own kids given some time in and around the first team to see if they can cut it before they are , inevitably , cast aside. Whatever happened to the old style of promoting from the reserves to cover for first team injuries. Nowadays as soon as we pick up an injury we look straight to the loan market for a replacement. It annoys me that we spend god knows how much money on an academy that doesn't seem to produce anything tangible. Chuck them in and see if they swim or sink without trace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Just sounds like everything we`ve done for god knows how long - just repackaged. Try and reduce the size of the 1st team squad but boost it by giving a handful of youth players 1st team contracts. What it hasn`t addressed is the issue of why so few players seem to have benefited from our set-up. Surely unless the root issues are resolved then dressing it up any way you like isn`t going to make the blind bit of difference. I appreciate we`re not going to keep churning them out but just one would be nice. The Emporors new clothes me thinks. PS Not a KM bashing post. PDG thats a concern and part of the point I was asking about how it will be different from now in terms of developing the young players. but I think the BEP has probably only given us a half arsed version of what Millen has in mind so I think we should wait and see how he fundamentally changes things before he's judged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Perhaps his limp wristed performance against Norwich Right, I've never heard of 'Louie Spence' so I've just looked him up. Are you saying Jordan Spence is being nicknamed by Riaz after an 'openly gay dance expert'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Right, I've never heard of 'Louie Spence' so I've just looked him up. Are you saying Jordan Spence is being nicknamed by Riaz after an 'openly gay dance expert'? Jesus, lighten up he's not the first to have the same surname as somebody infamous, thank god it's not Gaddaffi, Hitler or even Glitter or even worse Hunt, now he's been called/nicknamed some things on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Bloody hell. KM makes a perfectly good point, about bringing through the youth and some how it upsets people! What he has said makes perfectly good sense. What is there to moan about? At no point, from what ive read has he said he is doing it tomorrow. So give the man a chance to implement his ideas. I would also point out the detremental effect putting in a youngster before they are ready can have. If they are good enough, they are good enough. But just cause we have an injury to a right back say, doesnt mean the 18 year old reserve right back is good enough, it really is as simple as that. How people try and twist every interview bafffles me, why do it? are you that bored? This club seems to be back on track, can we not just enjoy it? Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Good move by Keith, hopefully this begins straight away, by giving Edwards a chance or at least bringing Ribeiro back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Our curse is that we always have been able to overpay for incompetent players killing off our own youth. It's about time we decide it's not a good idea to go on like this for another 100 years. We got a lot to learn from Rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I've seen you refer to him as 'Louie' Spence several times now. As no one else seems to have questioned it, can you enlighten me as to the reason? His name's Jordan, and everyone one else seems to call him that, so why do you keep calling him Louie? my very poor attempt at humour..... This is the real louie spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 We got a lot to learn from Rovers. no we havent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 no we havent Mabbutt & Penrice to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Two points. 1) Millen as assistant did not have the final word in the same way Wigley doesn't have the final word now. 2) When Johnson was in charge the season after play-off final by October/November of that year is was obvious to me that things weren't getting better. One decent spell post xmas kept City out of trouble. I felt from then on that whilst Johnson remained that City would not progress and we had almost another season of the same dross. Stagnation in other words. I have not felt like that with Millen in charge, despite some awfull performances and results earlier in the season. I have always had confidence that he would come good and said very early in the season that City would avoid the drop and finish mid table on the back of that confidence. Hardly 'blowing unwarrented smoke' up Millen's arse. It called trusting your own gut feeling. I also had a similar gut feeling. Even when we were awful at home, it felt that this was part of the process in a strange kind of way. recovering from anything isn't a simple straight forward period of constant improvement. There tends to be periods where bad old habits creep in and things go backwards. 2 games were important this season. Cardiff away and Leeds at home. Despite losing both, they both gave the players and manager the believe that they were good enough to win games Afterwards we went on good runs. Millen has always been open and honest in the interviews I've seen. He's got a good tactical brain and has done well in the transfer market. The biggest hurdle he's now got is developing a clear style of play. We don't impose ourselves on teams enough. A central midfielder and replacement for Caulker are the key. There must be a centre half in League one ready to step up who we could grab for a few hundred K. Any names? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 my very poor attempt at humour..... This is the real louie spence Hes actually a half handy footballer...keep it quiet or Milly will want to sign him as cover for DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I also had a similar gut feeling. Even when we were awful at home, it felt that this was part of the process in a strange kind of way. recovering from anything isn't a simple straight forward period of constant improvement. There tends to be periods where bad old habits creep in and things go backwards. 2 games were important this season. Cardiff away and Leeds at home. Despite losing both, they both gave the players and manager the believe that they were good enough to win games Afterwards we went on good runs. Millen has always been open and honest in the interviews I've seen. He's got a good tactical brain and has done well in the transfer market. The biggest hurdle he's now got is developing a clear style of play. We don't impose ourselves on teams enough. A central midfielder and replacement for Caulker are the key. There must be a centre half in League one ready to step up who we could grab for a few hundred K. Any names? Paul Caddis from Swindon Town...Fine Player. Would fill the gap left by Caulker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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