KeepUpLino Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Yeah the championship The atmosphere has nothing to do with SL The fact is we only sing when we are winning. Part time fans jump on the band wagon when we went up and will leave if we go down If we go down to Div1 we will only have the hard core fans left. We should be near the top of the league winning games This will improve the atmosphere It's only the hardcore left now and even they leave at halftime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 continuity, sustainability, stability, a long term plan. 1st priority has to be the existence of our football club. Whilst in the past SL wasn't acting sustainably but he is now. The restructure of the academy/youth is very positive and if we end up in league 1 so what, we'll be back (eventually). SL got us where we are now, he deserves as long as he wants to make it work long term. You can't knock his commitment to the cause ref the new stadium. I was contemplating suggesting you should be banned from this forum - I won't, I'll just say you are categorically incorrect and almost out-of-order. Start believing. You thought of getting him Banned are you for real? People like you need banning!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_bristol Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 You thought of getting him Banned are you for real? People like you need banning!!! read it again Lionel. How is it only the hardcore left btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 read it again Lionel. How is it only the hardcore left btw? How is it only the hardcore left? 13,700 fans yesterday 2000 of them wolves... I would say we've got a hardcore of around 11,500. This Lionel thing really isn't funny by the way!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_bristol Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 How is it only the hardcore left? 13,700 fans yesterday 2000 of them wolves... I would say we've got a hardcore of around 11,500. This Lionel thing really isn't funny by the way!! I'll stop then. And I'll stop taking some of your posts personally. See I'd argue that the harcore are the season ticket holders, the rest made up of those who go every now and again (like me), free riders and the away fans of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Allus easy having a go at the rich owner innit. Would you behave any differently in his shoes? Doubt it very much indeed. Judging by the names mentioned on yer over the years as potential managers/players, we have been in deeper shit...and would be having posts like this about us... We aint in the shit less Stevve Lansdown wants out, soooo how about a load of those gobbing off about him spending more cash, put their money where their mouthes are and buy shares either in your own syndicates, or through the ST??? I aint no ass kisser to anyone either. We are all human and err on a regular basis...when SL does or the various "managers" and shit players we sign do over the years, its played out in the full glare of publicity...unlike any of the rest of us's little **** ups.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 I'll stop then. And I'll stop taking some of your posts personally. See I'd argue that the harcore are the season ticket holders, the rest made up of those who go every now and again (like me), free riders and the away fans of course. I've been a season ticket holder for years now but i wasnt in the john ward era, it was only a tenner a game then. I would say I was a hardcore fan then even if I only went to half the games... If you live and breath the shit city serve up and it affects You, (Look how bloody grumpy we all are on here haha...) I would say that makes you a real hardcore fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 SL should invest in a decent DOF and stop making any football decisions himself. That is the one thing that I will agree with when it comes to SL. I will be eternally grateful to the fella for putting money where his mouth is and I respect him and his money. Long may he continue to underpin the club, however a DF may really have helped in making decisions ALA Danny Willson, BT, Coppell, GJ, KM and DM and some of the dross we have signed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowleUtd City Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Oh dear, we have a local businessman who is willing to invest his own money to support his local club, a club which has a fairweather fan base, and no history of success, a club which quality managers or players will hardly be queing up to join, it pains me to say that, I have been a regular since 1985, he has backed every manager that has been bought in, everyone is entitled to an opinion of course, but this seems nuts to be having a pop at SL for our shortcomings. What players/management would we have without his funding?? on our gates we would be league 1 or league 2 fodder just like the rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 The fact is over the years we have not really achieved anything. We are bottom of championship, or (next year) mid to top of league one. That is, on average, where we have always been. The money has not really got us anywhere. That is not SL's fault, but for a business man, his investments have been poor and ill-advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yea lansdown doesn't back any manager he doesn't give them 2 or 3 million to sign players every year, he doesn't underright losses of 12 million every year, Careful what you wish for, if lansdown leaves and demands his money back then its bye bye Bristol City as no one will come in a save us, we'd be like chester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 As Timbo points out above, the relationship between Lansdown Senior as majority shareholder, Dawe as Chair and minority shareholder, and Lansdown Junior as MD and majority shareholder's SON, is a disaster waiting to happen. Organisationally speaking, the Chair needs to hold the MD to account. How is that possible in this scenario? If Dawe was a strong leader, he might have some influence, but he is not. He is a stooge in this relationship to cover for Lansdown's tax avoidance. If better choices had been made at the end of the Johnson era, this governance problem might not have arisen. But after a series of bad managerial choices, there is nobody at Board level with enough influence or footballing knowledge to challenge the Lansdown dynasty. Like others, I feel bad voicing negative stuff about people who have poured money into our beloved club. However, he decided to live on a tiny island even though all his business is in the UK in order to stop paying his dues to the country that gave him his opportunity to make his billions in the first place. In so doing he set up a structure at City which is a disgrace from a governance point of view. Hardly anyone on this thread has mentioned the name of the actual Chairman. Why? Because to all intents and purposes it's Lansdown who calls the shots. When things go wrong in an organisation you need leadership and effective management. There is no sign of either quality in the current set up and nobody who can hold anybody's feet to the fire. I'm afraid to say that, unless the actual Chairman suddenly finds his voice, this situation is only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 We could call this thread “What has the Lansdown ever done for us?” How about a bit of perspective? For most of the last 30 years, we have been in League One. We are now in our sixth consecutive season in the Championship - we've only achieved this once before in the post-war era. Even on that occasion, we took a long time to get established in Div 2 (as it was then). In our third and sixth seasons ('67-68 and '70-71), we came 19th out of 22. Our other recent spells in the Championship have been 5 season mainly under Lumsden and Osman (not exactly a golden era, despite a few good spells), and 1 season mainly under Benny. Wilson and Johnson were good managerial appointments, and they've continued to work as managers for other clubs (do these other clubs have complete idiots as chairmen as well??). I'm probably in a minority, but I still think Del can become a good manager at this level. Tinnion and Millen were gambles - very easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight, but at the time probably worth a risk. Which of you would have predicted that Dougie Freedman or Sean Dyche would make a decent fist of management? Remember that Millen had seemed to do a good job in his first spell as caretaker. So: - much as it pains me to say it, where we are now is success by our standards - we’ve had some good managers and some bad ones, like the vast majority of other clubs. Thank you Steve for all your hard work – and apologies for the unrealistic expectations of some. We should all be careful what we wish for – think of clubs like Coventry and Portsmouth …… Or there’s another club closer to home that isn’t doing too well at present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Oh dear, we have a local businessman who is willing to invest his own money to support his local club, a club which has a fairweather fan base, and no history of success, a club which quality managers or players will hardly be queing up to join, it pains me to say that, I have been a regular since 1985, he has backed every manager that has been bought in, everyone is entitled to an opinion of course, but this seems nuts to be having a pop at SL for our shortcomings. What players/management would we have without his funding?? on our gates we would be league 1 or league 2 fodder just like the rovers. Current expenditure should easily support a championship team. I would argue harshly that the model Steve Lansdown is part of the clubs malaise. Squad numbers are high and quality low. What players/management would we have without his funding?? Well obvioulsy the club would differ, because pre lansdown the club ran at a much smaller operating loss. City could have a squad size which is smaller, utilising acedemy players more and loanees. Bristol City did once have numerous local players in the starting XI and hovered around the plays off's with Wilson. Promotion to this level was not built on such debt either. Less can be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antman Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think there is a valid basis for being critical of SL. This is no overnight problem. SL has manouvered the shareholding of the club over many many years to place himself in an unassailable position as owner. seperating the ownership of the football club and the ground, diluting shareholdings by issuing more, etc etc. Historically dont forget he was financial director for a long run before he was chairman too. So many of the high paid players that have brought chaos to our pay structure were appointed under his watch, probably on his say so - I would argue that this yo-yo approach - sometimes pay big, then panic and hold it all back - is what is doing the damage. There 'seems' to have been little or no long term thinking, we've reviewed the academy more times than I care to remember, but it still produces little. The U21's current approach would seem to be the best bet yet, getting in players rejected by other clubs who seem closer to the first team standard/level. We've signed several high profile players without signing enough supporting players to make it work, they've then been ruined along the way by our failure to perform and we've offloaded players cheaply who we paid shedloads for, this isn't once or twice, it's happened many, many times - Pitman being the latest. The financial fair play rules definately are having an effect on how the club is run, but our current cost savings are as a result of what I would call poor financial management by SL previously. (however ironic that is for a multi millionare who made his fortune offering finacial advice) the £10 M losses we have been sustaining have happened under his chairmanship, over a period of time that would suggest he should have been able to stem the tide, but hasn't. Other posters have rightly flagged the unworkable position where he has his son 'running' the club (who admitted he didn't really know much about it when he started) an invisible 'chairman' who is nothing but a legal obligation since SL is now a tax exile and connot be here himself. No board to challenge him, no directors or major shareholders to call time on the problems that keep coming round and round. The AV project has been a hugely annoying and irritating debacle - NOT SL's fault though, but it seems to me that he has lost his enthusiasm for the fight and has retreated somewhat as a result. (which you can understand) But where does that leave our club? having put himself into a position of complete control, is he letting it wither asnd fade - his involvement with Bristol Rugby suggested that maybe he saw a way to glory there, but that didn't happen either! What does SL want? to be a force in local sport - the guardian of two of the major clubs in the city? then that comes with a responsibility as well, in effect we, as supporters (and shareholders) have every right to voice our discontent with the lack of direction and management. If his current strategy is to let the club rebuild, paying less for players and on wages, then say thats the case - come out and tell us. don't wrap it up in more promises of glory, offers of free tickets that don't actually exist, free food coupons that turn out to be a con - other shit that is a shallow veneer of marketing to try and flog season tickets on a wing and a prayer. DMc has turned out to be a bit of a damp squib, but lets not forget how many other appointments have done the same - i cannot forget or forgive the Tinnion debacle - 'Judge me on Tinnion' - have we forgotten that? The strange business over Coppell isn't only down to one man either I'm sure, it was clear things were not as they seemed following his appointment. sure it's a lottery, but our shortcomings have been obvious to everyone watching the games, and the stories regarding Monk from Swansea leave me wondering what is going on behind the scenes. If DMc isn't doing the negotiating then who is? is that Jon lansdown? is that why we've failed to get the players we needed? it's not good enough. especially when other teams have picked up bargain, quality players around us. No-one but SL is responsible for the ongoing losses at BCFC - it's his policies over a considerable time that have placed us in a position where we find ourselves being 'grateful' for his stemming those losses with his cash. SL needs to decide what he wants, put a funded strategy in place with a timescale and give it a go, he needs to stop hesitating and either effectively put up or shut up - but 'shutting up' is impossible if no-one wants to buy him out! But as ever in the spirit of this board, there seems little place for discussion anymore, just knee jerk right/wrong slanging matches - thats a shame, because there is a need for the supporters to find their voice right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Good post, Antman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 We could call this thread “What has the Lansdown ever done for us?” How about a bit of perspective? For most of the last 30 years, we have been in League One. We are now in our sixth consecutive season in the Championship - we've only achieved this once before in the post-war era. Even on that occasion, we took a long time to get established in Div 2 (as it was then). In our third and sixth seasons ('67-68 and '70-71), we came 19th out of 22. Our other recent spells in the Championship have been 5 season mainly under Lumsden and Osman (not exactly a golden era, despite a few good spells), and 1 season mainly under Benny. Wilson and Johnson were good managerial appointments, and they've continued to work as managers for other clubs (do these other clubs have complete idiots as chairmen as well??). I'm probably in a minority, but I still think Del can become a good manager at this level. Tinnion and Millen were gambles - very easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight, but at the time probably worth a risk. Which of you would have predicted that Dougie Freedman or Sean Dyche would make a decent fist of management? Remember that Millen had seemed to do a good job in his first spell as caretaker. So: - much as it pains me to say it, where we are now is success by our standards - we’ve had some good managers and some bad ones, like the vast majority of other clubs. Thank you Steve for all your hard work – and apologies for the unrealistic expectations of some. We should all be careful what we wish for – think of clubs like Coventry and Portsmouth …… Or there’s another club closer to home that isn’t doing too well at present very well put. And while I have no faith in McInnes turning this club around, I wholeheartedly agree with your other points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Good analysis, Antman. If you "can't forgive the Tinnion debacle" what can be said about repeating the same mistake by appointing Millen 6 years later - an internal appointment with zero management experience?! Mistakes are mistakes - if you don't make them, you don't grow. But if you repeat them you need someone with authority and cojones to hold you to account. Lansdown thinks he's too big to be held to account and hiding away in Guernsey is no good to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 problem is Lansdown is damned if he does damned if he doesn't, He gets involved and he's accused of interfearing with the manager and selecting the team, He doesn't get involved he's accused of not caring or not providing support, There is no one working harder for this club then him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 We could call this thread “What has the Lansdown ever done for us?” How about a bit of perspective? For most of the last 30 years, we have been in League One. We are now in our sixth consecutive season in the Championship - we've only achieved this once before in the post-war era. Even on that occasion, we took a long time to get established in Div 2 (as it was then). In our third and sixth seasons ('67-68 and '70-71), we came 19th out of 22. Our other recent spells in the Championship have been 5 season mainly under Lumsden and Osman (not exactly a golden era, despite a few good spells), and 1 season mainly under Benny. Wilson and Johnson were good managerial appointments, and they've continued to work as managers for other clubs (do these other clubs have complete idiots as chairmen as well??). I'm probably in a minority, but I still think Del can become a good manager at this level. Tinnion and Millen were gambles - very easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight, but at the time probably worth a risk. Which of you would have predicted that Dougie Freedman or Sean Dyche would make a decent fist of management? Remember that Millen had seemed to do a good job in his first spell as caretaker. So: - much as it pains me to say it, where we are now is success by our standards - we’ve had some good managers and some bad ones, like the vast majority of other clubs. Thank you Steve for all your hard work – and apologies for the unrealistic expectations of some. We should all be careful what we wish for – think of clubs like Coventry and Portsmouth …… Or there’s another club closer to home that isn’t doing too well at present I started supporting City in the Alan Dicks days and may be as a consequence tend to feel the second division (as it is in real money) is about the right level for us. Lansdown gets the credit for getting us back to where we should be. However, it has to be said that he has not succeeded since then and every season we get closer to the drop. As I said elsewhere, mistakes are ok if you don't repeat them. He hasn't got the football savvy to pick a manager at this level and he desperately needs to get someone onto the Board who has. If not he's going to waste a lot more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 If you "can't forgive the Tinnion debacle" what can be said about repeating the same mistake by appointing Millen 6 years later - an internal appointment with zero management experience?! I still don't blame Lansdown for appointing Keith Millen. I don't think there was any alternative. With the way Coppell walked out, it seemed to me entirely logical that an appointment was made as quickly as possible, and it had to be from within. I don't think there was any other realistic option at the time. However, Lansdown's titanic error was appointing Coppell in the first place when it was clear that he was never committed to the job (who else starts a new job with eight weeks leave of absence?!) and then sanctioning the purchases of James, Hunt and Stewart. We have never recovered from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I still don't blame Lansdown for appointing Keith Millen. I don't think there was any alternative. With the way Coppell walked out, it seemed to me entirely logical that an appointment was made as quickly as possible, and it had to be from within. I don't think there was any other realistic option at the time. However, Lansdown's titanic error was appointing Coppell in the first place when it was clear that he was never committed to the job (who else starts a new job with eight weeks leave of absence?!) and then sanctioning the purchases of James, Hunt and Stewart. We have never recovered from that. Very true, I disliked millen as manager and didn't want him to get the job but at the time there was really no other option, we limped through until the end of that season but the biggest mistake was not appointing a new man after that, in hindsight we should of given it to millen and asked him to be caretaker until the end of cop-outs season and then should of done all the restructuring then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 He hasn't got the football savvy to pick a manager at this level and he desperately needs to get someone onto the Board who has. If not he's going to waste a lot more money. Let's be fair, most of us thought McInnes was a good choice when he was appointed. No English experience, but tipped as a prospect who'd taken a small unfashionable club to 3rd in the SPL - other clubs were sniffing around him before we lured him south. And he did come in and seem to make an instant impact over KM's tired selections. The fact that he seems not to be able to see the wood for the trees now, was not predictable. We can all be wise in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I still don't blame Lansdown for appointing Keith Millen. I don't think there was any alternative. With the way Coppell walked out, it seemed to me entirely logical that an appointment was made as quickly as possible, and it had to be from within. I don't think there was any other realistic option at the time. However, Lansdown's titanic error was appointing Coppell in the first place when it was clear that he was never committed to the job (who else starts a new job with eight weeks leave of absence?!) and then sanctioning the purchases of James, Hunt and Stewart. We have never recovered from that. I do, Millen wasn't ready for the Job before Coppell, Lansdown said so himself, but was ready 2 games later!!! Utter utter shite decision from the chairman. So he spends month getting the right manager, je walks and spends 2 hours getting his replacement! they didn't even advertise the job, which I still believe is not fully legal! Lansdown is fully to blame for that debacle, not only appointing Coppell, but in part for his resignation, and certainly for appointing Millen, And shows how abject some of his decisions really have been for this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugarwray Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 It's all the Chairmans fault ... I don't think so Has he got all the big decisions right? Maybe not Has he been let down over the new ground by those who should be making good decisions for good reasons? Absolutely Has the manager delivered? Not exactly but remembering where we were when he arrived he has not taken us so far back Are the players standing up when counted? I answer my own question Do the fans get behind the team when they need it most? Some but not enough Let's face it, we are not Chelsea. We are City and we like it that way. We have seen worse. I was at Rochdale when we went 92nd in 1982. Negative energy is contagious. I really think there is a genuine chance that we can get out of the relegation zone by the end of the season. Turning on the chairman is not going to help unless you have an actionable alternative plan to his continuing support. He's a fan too and I like it that way. COYMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 What is the ******* point in having a rich owner if all he does is hide away and do nothing! Every other club that has a rich owner does well, us well we all know what happens there! I'm sorry but I'd rather be back in league one watching my club win games than watching this shite in the championship, me and about 7 of my friends left after 20 mins today and were all season ticket holders. The owner has to be accountable in this as all but one of his managerial appointments have been dire and on the cheap, del has to go now with Skuse and Carey and lets start afresh, if that means league one then so be it cos we blatantly can't cut it at this level anymore. I will buy a season ticket in league one because I love this club but watching us die in the championship just hurts especially when we have a big money owner that doesn't spend! I still say the January transfer window in the play off season was our chance and Steve did nothing, this club is going down and no amount of clapping will save us. It's about time we fought for our club, forget the stadium because the club matters more and always will and we fans deserve a bit more than this! Good post! For various reasons I wont be giving another penny to the club while Lansdown and his cronies are running the show! I supported the club for 26 years, spent god only knows how much on watching City, travelling, shirts and everything else. Dont expect success, just enjoyed the highs and lows of watching City over the years!! But enough is enough with them at the top, I'd rather have an owner who may not have the cash that Lansdown possesses but knows how to run a club properly.. decision after decision by them over the years have taken this club 1step forward and 3 steps back, tarnished a legends (Tinman) reputation with the club, and a great servant (Millen) in my eyes and many other misdemeanours that have angered me. The whole club from top to bottom is one big joke now and a complete laughing stock! and those at the very top must be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 He deserves credit for getting us to this level and giving money to keep us here but I think this sums it up perfectly. We have a "boy-wonder" doing god-knows what job simply because he is the son of his father. That's a fundamentally bad business decision. I do wonder if Hargreaves thinks he could have made a really big fortune without Lansdown.... Appointing his son just because he is his son, struggle to think of another club in the modern era who have done that indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 He deserves credit for getting us to this level and giving money to keep us here but Appointing his son just because he is his son, struggle to think of another club in the modern era who have done that indeed. Man u, aren't all the glazers children on the board and take money out of the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm not a part time fan, I've been going since the mid sixties, had a season ticket for donkeys years but I wont be going to watch any lower league football again if we get relegated. When teams climb the leagues they acquire more fans, it happens to every team, when they drop down they lose fans, it happens everywhere. Depends on the size of the club perhaps. Napoli got 50k in Italian third div few years back, Leeds regularly got bigger gates than us in Third tier etc, Newcastle despite a highly unpopular owner 40k when they stormed straight back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Depends on the size of the club perhaps. Napoli got 50k in Italian third div few years back, Leeds regularly got bigger gates than us in Third tier etc, Newcastle despite a highly unpopular owner 40k when they stormed straight back up. If we went down crowds will drop to 9-10k, but if we did a Southampton or Norwich and storm the league in our first season they will be back up to 18k a week, Winning brings the crowds in regardless of what league you are in, we have a fan base but many don't go because we don't win every week, When we got promoted the last 5 or so home games were almost sell outs when in the play-offs it was 17k most weeks, Unfortanitly we've got a losing habit and a negitive crowd, the players probbily fear playing at home, might explain why we are performing marginally better away from home perfomance wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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