Who The Hell Do You Think You Are?

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

If Vincent Tan came to to this club instead of Cardiff you'd have been one of those who bent over and took it right up the shitter, Wouldn't you?

How have you come to that conclusion?

In the OP he writes that our board are a lot better than what we could have, and then provides a link to a Daily Mail article about Vincent Tan.

[Jordan Tansley]

If Vincent Tan came to this club it would turn me homosexual? I don't get it?

Is this supposed to be a personal insult?

Jesus, I've always suspected something a bit whiffy with you, a name like "no shit" sounds very north bristol....

In case your head had been up SL's ass for a couple of years and you missed it, Vincent Tan raped Cardiff and stole their history and heritage. He has been able to get away with it because Cardiff (a once proud and respected adversary) simply let him. If such a situation where SL decided that Red was no longer the colour to wear and 'City' no longer the name to bare... What then for your "it's his club" bollocks?

[no_merde]

If Vincent Tan came to to this club instead of Cardiff you'd have been one of those who bent over and took it right up the shitter, Wouldn't you?

 

Ahh, I get it now. You have no response to my points and no idea how business actually works so have to resort to some school ground jibe.

 

And you profess to have a viewpoint that people should listen to on this subject?

[no_merde]

Jesus, I've always suspected something a bit whiffy with you, a name like "no shit" sounds very north bristol....

In case your head had been up SL's ass for a couple of years and you missed it, Vincent Tan raped Cardiff and stole their history and heritage. He has been able to get away with it because Cardiff (a once proud and respected adversary) simply let him. If such a situation where SL decided that Red was no longer the colour to wear and 'City' no longer the name to bare... What then for your "it's his club" bollocks?

 

Jordan, do you have to start each of your points with a personal insult? Do you think it helps give them more power in the eyes of your interlocutor?

 

As with most of your points on here they have been made previously (and in a more succinct and courteous manner) and I've already answered it. Feel free to scroll up and take a look.

[Andy Horsman]

Jesus Christ, can you read as well as write? I will post what I've written 3 times previously:

 

"By all means scrutinise and criticise the actions of any private enterprise. That is currently your right in this country. But don't for a minute think that gives you the right to demand somebody runs their business how you want it to be run. If you want to do that you have put your own capital at risk."

 

NOBODY ELSE CLAIM THAT I'M SAYING LANSDOWN IS BEYOND CRITICISM!!!1!!!!!1!1

No need to shout Dr Bullshit,  are you aware that you are condoning by default, given the quote above, Cardiff's re-brand and Hull's name change not to mention the Franchise that is MK Dons. We are not debating how Alan Sugar or Richard Branson run their 'enterprises' we are talking about football clubs. Without fans there would be no clubs. they may not be shareholders( in most instances) but they are very significant stakeholders. Lansdown, in my opinion, has and is 'running' BCFC very badly. And I won't deviate from that opinion until I see tangible proof otherwise. Not some ill-tempered rant from an individual who it would appear, struggles to understand that this forum is about different opinions and debate.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

In reply to Peter Hanrahan..... Do you think with all the money spent, all the players we've had, and all the managers we've had, that they have all failed because of the managers appointed by the board?

 

Think about it for a moment.... 50 million in debt and we are bottom of the 3rd Division.

 

All these players we've signed are poor?

 

All these managers we've signed are poor?

 

I don't know what's gone wrong Spudski. Personally if I was SL and I'd invested the amount if money I had into the management and players I would want to be kept fully aware of everything that's happening on the training ground and the pitch. However I don't believe that SL is responsible for tactics or training, that's down to the management team and the players.

[spudski]

In response to RMLF.... mate you obviously have a very better tolerance than I have.

 

You give our present board and owner all this grace... yet they don't do it with managers.

 

The five pillars have been courted out like some 'enlightened' philosophy that we are all meant to fall over and bow down too...

 

They are the basics that any football club adheres too... and have been for many a year.

 

How people cannot see this is unbelievable.

 

To just except that we've only just addressed this, is so questionable.

 

How long do you give these jokers to just bumble along finding out the basics after all these years in charge?

 

Enough is enough... time to stop this charade....

 

To Peter Hanrahan.... if managers and coaches were allowed to do their job without constant interfering and broken promises from board and owner... then perhaps they could succeed.

[Mad Cyril]

Anyone saying that our owners are in the same bracket as those at Cardiff or Hull or a whole feast of other 'plaything asset' owners should take a reality check.

Yes they have pumped money into a club that doesnt have much, yes they have changed managers during a period of sustained underperformance on the pitch and yes they have been in charge when a number of administrative balls have been dropped (particularly with the new season ticket and turnstile systems).

Using hindsight to attack every decision made is quite easy. But then again so is selective use of the facts. For example, damning the appointment of Millen while forgetting we had just sent out rejection letters to every interested manager when Coppell accepted the job.

As for 'managerial merry go round' I am struggling to think of when the board has released a manager when we were not in the botton five. At each time there was a significant groundswell of fan opinion calling for change (albeit the last one being less universal).

I am therefore a bit confused why there are calls now for the owners to jog on. Basically i see this as a blunt and understandable outpouring of frustration at recent performance on the pitch rather than a rational, realistic or likely solution.

[BrizzleRed]

By all means scrutinise and criticise the actions of any private enterprise. That is currently (though not if these lot have anything to do with it) your right in this country. But don't for a minute think that gives you the right to demand somebody runs their business how you want it to be run. If you want to do that you have put your own capital at risk.

 

You've just put your finger on the main problem with that statement.  

 

It USED to be viewed as OUR football club, not SL's 'BUSINESS' and that's where things have gone horribly wrong at this club. Rather than SL asking for the money back that HE has wasted over the last few years, he has taken it back in shares of the club, so it has now become his to do with as he wishes.

 

I'm not one of the SL out brigade by the way, but I've got to say his financial balls up's; however well intentioned they were, are now costing the club dearly.  Let's be fair, considering SL's wealth, many of us mugs are probably shelling out a bigger proportion of our disposable income to watch the sad results of his investment than he does himself!

 

I've said it on another thread.  If he wants to protect his investment and the club he cares about, he needs help in the boardroom, because it's becoming increasingly obvious that the current incumbents just aren't up to the job. 

[no_merde]

No need to shout Dr Bullshit,  are you aware that you are condoning by default, given the quote above, Cardiff's re-brand and Hull's name change not to mention the Franchise that is MK Dons. We are not debating how Alan Sugar or Richard Branson run their 'enterprises' we are talking about football clubs. Without fans there would be no clubs. they may not be shareholders( in most instances) but they are very significant stakeholders. Lansdown, in my opinion, has and is 'running' BCFC very badly. And I won't deviate from that opinion until I see tangible proof otherwise. Not some ill-tempered rant from an individual who it would appear, struggles to understand that this forum is about different opinions and debate.

 

Please explain what I am condoing and how?

 

A football club is no different to any other business. Without fans there would be no football club is a derivation of without customers there would be no business. So it's in Lansdown's interest to keep and (hopefully) grow the customer base of his business.

 

That locks his interest into the interests of the majority of fans. That's how capitalism works, and why its lifted more people out of poverty than any other ideology.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and to making it how ever many times you want. But being outraged that Steve Lansdown does anything other than run the club how he see's fit is stupid.

 

You want control, you buy it.

[Jordan Tansley]

Jordan, do you have to start each of your points with a personal insult? Do you think it helps give them more power in the eyes of your interlocutor?

 

As with most of your points on here they have been made previously (and in a more succinct and courteous manner) and I've already answered it. Feel free to scroll up and take a look.

 

Genius. Let us not forget that it was you who started this aggressively titled thread. You seem to have a problem with anyone holding an opinion on the board and owner if it is negative. This is a forum where we discuss the merits of everything to do with our club. Regardless of whether we have the ability to oust mr Lansdown, many hold the opinion that he is not good for this football club. 

That is our right and none of your irrelevant points will sway that. 

[Andy Horsman]

Please explain what I am condoing and how?

 

A football club is no different to any other business. Without fans there would be no football club is a derivation of without customers there would be no business. So it's in Lansdown's interest to keep and (hopefully) grow the customer base of his business.

 

That locks his interest into the interests of the majority of fans. That's how capitalism works, and why its lifted more people out of poverty than any other ideology.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and to making it how ever many times you want. But being outraged that Steve Lansdown does anything other than run the club how he see's fit is stupid.

 

You want control, you buy it.

I don't want control, I want the club run properly and I repeat that I no longer believe that Steve Lansdown, his son and the other minions making up the puppet board are capable of doing so. I have outlined my reasons. As for the merits of capitalism, we clearly come from very different perspectives. And to reply to your question, I thought it was obvious, EVEN TO A PERSON WHO CLEARLY SEES WHAT HE WANTSTO SEE, if you agree with your repeated quote, you are, beyond doubt condoning the actions of Allam, Tan and the persons who allowed and engineered the relocation to MK of Wimbledon FC.

[chipdawg]

What's Jon Lansdown done to qualify him as a 'successful local businessman' you know our Vice chair who does all the media work because our actual chairman is either embarrassed by his accent or does not have a tongue.

I was being facetious, but JL is just one person on the board. I wholeheartedly agree that it's our place to question the board and their performance- we pay for tickets, we buy shirts, we have a right to question what they do with our cash. But it seems that everyone is an expert on here. Everyone knows which manager we should have picked. Everyone knows how we could have forced Ashton Vale through. Everyone knows how we can incorporate JET and wingers and Baldock and Reid. What everyone doesn't seem to know is how ******* difficult it is to run an organisation of this size and one which has 15000 shareholders who have no significant financial stake and no insight of the machinations of the club. It should also be remembered that you so all this not just in the glare of the local media, but tweeters, forum trolls and Facebook users that can all make their opinions known to thousands of people on their mobile phone in less than 140 characters. Not to mention 24 hour rolling sports news.

I am not for a minute defending the performance of the board of late- I wasn't happy they got rid of SOD and I wasn't particularly happy they appointed Cotterill, but that's where we're at. Not to mention the ticketing and catering issues, AV, etc. I'd just like someone to come out and say "this is what they've done wrong, this is what we should be doing and this is how I'd do it" then starting 27 "Lansdown Out!" threads that are about as constructive as a Brazilian football stadium

[no_merde]

You seem to have a problem with anyone holding an opinion on the board and owner if it is negative. 

 

I give up.

[red panda]

Spudski, if people don't know - is a little more 'savvy' about some of the BS going on behind scenes.

 

I suspect that we talk to the same people sometimes.  The words Bristol United keep coming up, and it is beginning to almost make sense.

2 redundant stadiums, in nice housing areas, 2 codes that have the capacity to draw in the corporate crowds.

Put them both under 1 'roof' - and I mean a literal one - then a nice 40,000 seater multi-purpose area catering to Lady Gaga, the "next" Billy Graham, one-day cricket, Rugby Union and Bristol United FC seems like the only viable solution.

 

More people need to ask questions - not slag off posters raising this concern, but ask people at the both clubs. And the Rugby Club.

City in L2.  Rovers in the conference.  Suppose we go down again next year - BOTH in non-league?

 

Oh I know, we are too big a club. We aren't.

 

There is something rotten in both Bristol Clubs. There has to be a reason.

 

Elvis for manager

[Major Isewater]

Bravo "no merde" we've all been sucked in.

I thought your initial post was interesting ,edgy and thought provoking and despite you there has been an interesting and passionate debate.

However reading your replies i realise that you are just a wum who struck lucky.Shame.

[CosmosUK]

[CotswoldRed]

No BCFC belongs to the majority shareholder, so get over it! We just pay to watch football matches.

Your line of thinking would seem to suggest that customers have no influence on the design and sale of products and services.

Any company that ignores it's customers will suffer, eventually.

[cider-manc]

Never said I want SL out.

 

It's weird but I like that as a club we are owned by a guy who's money comes from a company started in a bedroom in Bristol. Although he isn't it does make him feel a bit more like "one of us".

 

I like that he sits down in a pub in Wolverhampton and talks very openly and passionately about what is going wrong within the club.

 

I like that he is willing to make such a financial loss in the pursuit of turning a 3rd/2nd division team into a success and to provide us with a new stadium.

 

The guy has more positives than negatives imo.

 

What I don't like is the current board and the continuous flow of BS that I feel (I know some disagree) seeps out of them.

 

The main point of every business is to make sure that customers/clients are happy with them or their product. Well guess what.... I am a customer of Bristol City football club and I'm not happy. Why shouldn't I voice my discontent? Why shouldn't I want them gone? (By the way- I don't think I have ever said this as I don't have any idea as to who would replace them....).

 

If this "business" was anything other than a football team many of us would have all turned our backs on them and refused to use them again a long time ago.

 

 

So in answer to your question....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

***disclaimer*** This isn't really Sparta and I'm not actually Gerard Butler. 

[no_merde]

Jordan / Andy,

 

Your view point comes across as extremely naive and immature.

 

It seems you want to criticize, but without offering any constructive solutions. You want the club run properly, but are unwilling to take the responsibility for putting this into action.

 

In the real world you can't pick and choose which decisions you want to take or stop things that are seemingly in your interests suddenly metamorphise into things that aren't.

 

I know that you're hurting because of the position this club is in - we all are - and it's totally human to want to find someone, something to blame.

 

But, as some one who looks at a lot of businesses, in this football club Steve Lansdown is on the assets side of its balance sheet not its liabilities.

 

If anything he's our greatest defence against what's happened at Cardiff.

[The Chaplain]

There seems to be a certain irony here that those most critical of the Cardiff/Hull ownership model are those most vociferous in there call for a change in the board.  

Get real, if the, admittedly slim, possibility of anyone coming along with the ability and desire to stump up the necessary money comes to reality the chances are they will not be local, they wont be a life-long fan, they will most probably come from overseas.

It seems to show the same lack of forethought of those who wanted to ditch our manager without a care in the world as to who the successor might be. 

[topofthestand]

this is a great debate. For me any chairman or share holder in a football club outside of the top 6 or 7 in the PL are resigned to the fact that any investment will get swallowed by the club and has to accept they may not get a return. I have nothing but respect for SL for putting is loyalty to Bristol City first above his own personal wealth. I run a successful business and would I let my children run it one day? Yes, that's one of the reasons I started it. Would I invest in Bristol City one day if the business continues to grow to the point I could afford to do it? 100% Yes, I may even buy a box in a year, is this going to generate me more business? doubtful, but its money well spent!!!! Would you invest in a football club?

[NickJ]

 

BCFC no longer have ownership of their stadium, which is not a problem whilst SL is the owner of both, but what happens when he wants to sell? there has been absolutely no transparency on this situation no matter how many times people demand assurances. 

 

The safeguards that were put in place over individual ownership after 1982 have been destroyed by SL. He now has ultimate power at a club that never wanted anyone to have ultimate power again. This is a point you really seem to miss when claiming we'd be screwed without SL's wealth and that we'd need someone to buy ALL of his shares for that to happen... He shouldn't have that many shares in the first place, there is meant to be a much more diverse shareholder group. 

 

  

But I don't believe that BCFC is the Lansdown's toy - I believe it also belongs to the supporters, the community, and the City of Bristol. I think that some things are too important to be the sole property of rich investors, no matter how well-intentioned. That applies whether those investors are from Bristol, Guernsey, Malaysia or Mars.

No Merde.

Please read, consider, reflect, and comment on the above statements.

[Jordan Tansley]

  

No Merde.

Please read, consider, reflect, and comment on the above statements.

 

 

I've turned into you, Nick. 

[Strictly Obi]

Your line of thinking would seem to suggest that customers have no influence on the design and sale of products and services.

Any company that ignores it's customers will suffer, eventually.

The trouble with your argument is the customers don't know what they want? The customers can't even agree on which manager they want....so there is little chance of any good consensus on anything else. All the customers are good at is saying what they don't want and moaning when they don't get what they think as individuals they have such a Devine right to. Can you coincidentally think of anything the fans could constructively put before the board that the majority could agree on? Cos if you can? I'm sure the board would listen! Answers on a postcard!

[Tomo]

[MC RISK77]

He must be on borrowed time on here, rarely have I met such a coward that delights in insulting folk from the safety of his keyboard, he obviously has a problem, perhaps he should be given time out to grow up?

 

i work with a couple of people who show similar traits....someone who delights in attempting to showcase the failings of others isn't too sure of themselves. Its as though they have been bullied in a past life and are now wreaking revenge on anyone who dares to disagree with them.

[Jordan Tansley]

He must be on borrowed time on here, rarely have I met such a coward that delights in insulting folk from the safety of his keyboard, he obviously has a problem, perhaps he should be given time out to grow up?

 

 

You know my name, I'm not the one hiding behind a Pseudonym. Come find me big boy, see who's the coward.

[chipdawg]

Your line of thinking would seem to suggest that customers have no influence on the design and sale of products and services.

Any company that ignores it's customers will suffer, eventually.

But I'm sure that the board and the fans want the same thing- a succesful, winning football team within a manageable budget, featuring at least a couple of local players. This scenario makes us happy for obvious reason, and makes the board happy because people are coming through the turnstiles, Sky want to show our matches and the bottom line on the accounts looks good. But this isn't the same as a company manufacturing a product that we want to use. We can't be Apple and survey customers to find out that everyone wants better voice recognition and bigger camera and then just do it. The board are not mistaken in their aims, just their execution. And even within that, not everything could be foreseen by us fans. I would argue that SOD, Coppell and probably McInnes were all highly popular appointments when they happened and they've rightly been praised for recent attitudes toward the academy and community work. We don't influence 'the product' because what the product should be is bleedin' obvious. The point I would make is that no one is coming up with anything constructive that the board should do differently- without a massive helping of hindsight of course. There certainly are (realistic) things they could do differently but I don't know what they are, hence why I'm not accusing them of wanting to merge with Rovers or calling for them to be lynched

[bristol south end]

What a joke thread. I think we have every right to question the owner and the board. Have you not noticed that we are on the verge of dropping into the basement league?

Yes asking questions are fine, but screaming for the board to go, making this forum unreadable is over the top.