Everything on the Botswana / South Africa Tour (Merged)

[djb6162]

Instead of sunning themselves in Africa I would have preferred to see players attending kids football tournaments at Ashton, Brislington, Mangotsfield, Yate, or wherever they are. The Community Trust did appear at Yate, but are too thinly spread to be regularly obvious across Bristol.

I would prefer to see Bristol City and its Community trust spending an intensive week interacting with the Community here, and creating alliances with children and parents, businesses, schools and footbal clubs, and on it goes.

Money spent on flights could run a festival of footbal in BS3, open day, skills schools, tournaments the list is only limited by imagination.

That is how to marginalise the Gas here , and position the football club as an obvious active participant v a peripheral one in the Community.

whilst i think i understand part of your argument, i think the job of community & PR building has to be balanced with that of running a serious business as well.

Lets be honest shall we for a minute, capturing hearts and minds of the local community is more about success on the pitch than an early season fixture down at Portishead or a hand shake at the local school.

As delightful as that is ( and more of that goes on than the club are given credit for by the way)

The gas debate is really quite irrelavant in that whole process and in fact the whole fascination with that rather pityfull club up the road is part of the problem in the city, not the solution.

 

Less than 3% of the catchment area follow BCFC, and if you captured all of the gas audience and rolled it into one number the city underperforms on attendance.

 

Reading and Cardiff have populations of just over 300,000 and capture average crowds of around 8% compared to BC at 3%

even Swindon get 4%. BC should be up with Wolves at 9%. even Carlisle got 6% last year for god sake.

To compete and to reach its true potential without continual handouts from the chairman, BCFC should be punching crowds out in excess of 6% (24000)

With a new stadium, possible promotion and a manger who is a self declared winner, that is what the club should be aiming for.

The above events will help, but quite frankly its about results on the pitch,Therefore the debate should be one of pre season preperation.... is this trip going to improve that or not.

[phantom]

I guess another angle to look at this.

The REAL reason we chose Botswana is because of the links Steve Lansdown has out there.

 

He has obviously seen the potential in taking the side out there and with the community team doing a bit of PR in the area - it is fair to assume that this in turn will bring in revenue which in turn will hopefully be invested into the football club 

[Kid in the Riot]

By Western Standards its still poor ...

I've worked for charity. Voluteered for months living away. Different field mind... But not sure about this Botswanna sketch. Is it really the best use of money v giving it direct.

There is Community work in BS3 - 4 to do. A Bristol City resource is being taken to another continent.

 

It is for 12 days or whatever they're out there for...long term though Lansdown is building a sporting academy at Ashton Vale, I'm sure that'll be beneficial.

[Cowshed]

It is literally no different than if they went to Spain or somewhere else in Europe for a week or two; calm down.

They are in and around the city and available for community work 50 weeks out of the year; targeting this trip as an example of them forsaking that duty; is missing the point of it.

As the video says, and as the management have spoken of before, for them this is about making the team as prepared as they can be for a positive season, not really about them building relationships.

And with all due respect; I'd rather they were all over shacked up at a international class training facility for a week preparing for the season, away from the distractions at home, than a week of community work. They can do that during the campaign.

I am very calm.

They are in and around the city and available for community work 50 weeks. And with all respect it is hardly that widespread. The cost and effort of taking the team and Community trust to Africa can be better employed here, or equalled to improve the quality of what structure is there.

[richwwtk]

I am very calm.

They are in and around the city and available for community work 50 weeks. And with all respect it is hardly that widespread. The cost and effort of taking the team and Community trust to Africa can be better employed here, or equalled to improve the quality of what structure is there.

 

This seems to be a very blinkered view, the same sort of view that, on a national scale, regards all foreign aid as bad.

 

Not every penny spent by the club has to go locally, there is nothing wrong with spreading the profile of Bristol City FC elsewhere and maybe improving a few peoples lives into the bargain.

 

Even if there is no direct and discernible benefit for the club from this, it is still worthwhile and a great experience for the people that are going there.

[reddogkev]

Any city fans out in Botswana?

[samo II]

I am very calm.

They are in and around the city and available for community work 50 weeks. And with all respect it is hardly that widespread. The cost and effort of taking the team and Community trust to Africa can be better employed here, or equalled to improve the quality of what structure is there.

As has been repeated over and over and over; the cost isn't a club expense, it is being paid for by Lansdown, so that is a spurious argument, and undermines all the other point you raise.  If you refuse to acknowledge the actual facts of the situation, it kinda comes over like you've a chip on your shoulder.

 

And if their community work is hardly wide spread across the course of a near full year, then what difference will them taking this trip make?  Suggests a bigger issue than two weeks of preseason preparation, where ever that might be (the fact it is in Africa is irrelevant).

I also I think you are lining yourself up for being very disappointed if you think that City will ever give over a full week/fortnight of time for community work only a month before the start of the season; probably the most crucial time to bring the team together and bed in new recruits.

 

More likely than not, if they were here, we'd have the same amount of games arranged anyway; one with smaller teams which wouldn't really help us prepare, and some against bigger teams where we'd pay over the odds to watch a second-string side go through the motions.  Rest of the time they'd be holed up at Failand, getting ready for the first game; doubt they'd do more community work at this point.

[Cowshed]

As has been repeated over and over and over; the cost isn't a club expense, it is being paid for by Lansdown, so that is a spurious argument, and undermines all the other point you raise. If you refuse to acknowledge the actual facts of the situation, it kinda comes over like you've a chip on your shoulder.

And if their community work is hardly wide spread across the course of a near full year, then what difference will them taking this trip make? Suggests a bigger issue than two weeks of preseason preparation, where ever that might be (the fact it is in Africa is irrelevant).

I also I think you are lining yourself up for being very disappointed if you think that City will ever give over a full week/fortnight of time for community work only a month before the start of the season; probably the most crucial time to bring the team together and bed in new recruits.

More likely than not, if they were here, we'd have the same amount of games arranged anyway; one with smaller teams which wouldn't really help us prepare, and some against bigger teams where we'd pay over the odds to watch a second-string side go through the motions. Rest of the time they'd be holed up at Failand, getting ready for the first game; doubt they'd do more community work at this point.

I suppose it depends on how you view the Football Club. I look at City in a community centred and social context. I feel that its efforts in Bristol should be relentless.

Each summer represents a wide opportunity for the club to engage more widely with the Community. I don't expect a week long community centred festival of football, but would welome and appalaud such.

Each summer being involved in kids football its strikes me how much missed opportunity there is around the City for BCFC to position itself in. Going to Botswanna will not fill that position.

How do you turn Bristol Red was a recent topic I saw on here. Not by placing such focus elsewhere is not an answer. When people on here complain about kids in Chelsea shirts, I think looking inwards would be more beneficial. City can fight back by higher visilbility in its backyard.

[samo II]

I suppose it depends on how you view the Football Club. I look at City in a community centred and social context. I feel that its efforts in Bristol should be relentless.

Each summer represents a wide opportunity for the club to engage more widely with the Community. I don't expect a week long community centred festival of football, but would welome and appalaud such.

Each summer being involved in kids football its strikes me how much missed opportunity there is around the City for BCFC to position itself in. Going to Botswanna will not fill that position.

How do you turn Bristol Red was a recent topic I saw on here. Not by placing such focus elsewhere is not an answer. When people on here complain about kids in Chelsea shirts, I think looking inwards would be more beneficial. City can fight back by higher visilbility in its backyard.

No, the Africa trip doesn't solve issues relating to community engagement, but then it is pretty much entirely un-related, so I guess my angle is; what is everyone's big problem with the team doing a tour of Africa?

 

I don't remember the massive deal being made of us going to Scandinavia a few years back, or away to Portugal under GJ, nor the link being made between community relations and the tours at the time.

 

And, like I said; if the team, who've just got a large number of new players, were focusing on anything other than getting best prepared for the new season at this point in the summer, we'd be just as up in arms.

 

By all means make the case we need better community projects, engagement etc but let that be its own topic, and not some opportunity to pile-on this Africa trip.

[Red Ferret]

I don't understand why some people would want the club to forsake a solid week of pre-season training /matches for community work?

They are completely different things

[samo II]

I don't understand why some people would want the club to forsake a solid week of pre-season training /matches for community work?

They are completely different things

My point exactly.

 

Same fans would be pillorying the same folks at the club if we rocked up under prepared for the season too.

[Chivs]

Slightly ????

They look complete Loonies !! Whats with the builders safety helmets ?

 

Or the oversized yellow glasses?  Completely mental.  Like our fans wearing yellow marigolds...

 

Sammy's there, John Pemberton tweeted a picture last night.

I trust we've blocked the aerial of Sammy's phone company.  "What, no signal Sammy?  Shame."

[Dave L]

Being active in kids coaching in Bristol you get to see how much contact there is between Bristol City and football at grass roots. 

 

To get a sense of what the Community Trust actually do, the number of kids they are involved with each year (50,000), their growth in recent years, and their plans for the future, you could do worse than read their most recent annual report and accounts on the Charity Commission website. This is publicly available information, and shows the figures up until April 2013.

 

Go to http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/  and type in 'Bristol City Community Trust' in the search box.

[T R]

Slightly ????

They look complete Loonies !! Whats with the builders safety helmets ?

 

You never know Tone, with all the building work at ashton gate this could catch on, it would be quite funny to see.

 

I have ordered mine:

 

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KLktlDAcRTkwsA331NBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzZzVmcHZxBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMwYWQyMTliZjZkY2QxMTg3YmZkOTFjMTJhYzE4MGNjNgRncG9zAzY0BGl0A2Jpbmc-?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dbuilders%2Bsafety%2Bhelmets%2B%253F%26fr%3Dmcafee%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26spos%3D12%26nost%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D64&w=600&h=475&imgurl=i01.i.aliimg.com%2Fwsphoto%2Fv0%2F585926887%2FDelta-QUARTZ-III-102008-ABS-disaster-prevention-helmets-safety-helmet-font-b-Construction-b-font-site.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fpromotion%2Ffashion-beauty_white-cap-construction-promotion.html&size=28.4KB&name=...+disaster+prevention+%3Cb%3Ehelmets%3C%2Fb%3E%2C+%3Cb%3Esafety%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3Ehelmet%3C%2Fb%3E%2C+%3Cb%3EConstruction%3C%2Fb%3E+site+%3Cb%3Ehelmet%3C%2Fb%3E&p=builders+safety+helmets+%3F&oid=0ad219bf6dcd1187bfd91c12ac180cc6&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee&tt=...+disaster+prevention+%3Cb%3Ehelmets%3C%2Fb%3E%2C+%3Cb%3Esafety%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3Ehelmet%3C%2Fb%3E%2C+%3Cb%3EConstruction%3C%2Fb%3E+site+%3Cb%3Ehelmet%3C%2Fb%3E&b=61&ni=21&no=64&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12op8gk80&sigb=144d13gkm&sigi=14fea31fh&sigt=13btih4o3&sign=13btih4o3&.crumb=CBw/YCRf5j0&fr=mcafee&fr2=piv-web

 

I will just cover my hat in city stickers, perhaps a flashing light.

[Red-Robbo]

whilst i think i understand part of your argument, i think the job of community & PR building has to be balanced with that of running a serious business as well.

Lets be honest shall we for a minute, capturing hearts and minds of the local community is more about success on the pitch than an early season fixture down at Portishead or a hand shake at the local school.

As delightful as that is ( and more of that goes on than the club are given credit for by the way)

The gas debate is really quite irrelavant in that whole process and in fact the whole fascination with that rather pityfull club up the road is part of the problem in the city, not the solution.

Less than 3% of the catchment area follow BCFC, and if you captured all of the gas audience and rolled it into one number the city underperforms on attendance.

Reading and Cardiff have populations of just over 300,000 and capture average crowds of around 8% compared to BC at 3%

even Swindon get 4%. BC should be up with Wolves at 9%. even Carlisle got 6% last year for god sake.

To compete and to reach its true potential without continual handouts from the chairman, BCFC should be punching crowds out in excess of 6% (24000)

With a new stadium, possible promotion and a manger who is a self declared winner, that is what the club should be aiming for.

The above events will help, but quite frankly its about results on the pitch,Therefore the debate should be one of pre season preperation.... is this trip going to improve that or not.

You are comparing towns with one team to a city with two. If NLBR stay in their present position, we may see our percentage "capture" rise quite sharply.

Re Botswana. Be good for well-paid but traditionally fairly unaware footballers to get a humbling experience. The games won't be like playing L1 opposition, but I'm sure they'll be as competitive if not more than anything local non-league can offer and players get an opportunity to work on their fitness in the sun and perhaps even more importantly bond, as you do when you go on experiences like this.

We won't be selling lots of replica shirts out there, but if the link is kept up - who knows? Maybe we can pick up a Botswanan Drogba in the future...

[Bar BS3]

Some of the things on here are laughable.

This is pre-season. Not a community project, although there are benefits to choosing Botswana as the destination of the PRE SEASON tour.

Nothing to do with projects that could be done in Bristol.

It's about getting the team upto speed.

If we are under prepared for the first few games of the season, then I will join anyone in criticising the choice of pre season perpetration.

If it does the job AND builds ties with a new market in Africa then it will have been a great success and may of you on this thread will be wrong.

Let's wait and see shall we...?!

[Sixtyseconds]

To get a sense of what the Community Trust actually do, the number of kids they are involved with each year (50,000), their growth in recent years, and their plans for the future, you could do worse than read their most recent annual report and accounts on the Charity Commission website. This is publicly available information, and shows the figures up until April 2013.

Go to http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/ ;and type in 'Bristol City Community Trust' in the search box.

Where the Community Trust / City in attendance in any form at the Ashton Boys tournament last weekend?

[spudski]

Some of the things on here are laughable.

This is pre-season. Not a community project, although there are benefits to choosing Botswana as the destination of the PRE SEASON tour.

Nothing to do with projects that could be done in Bristol.

It's about getting the team upto speed.

If we are under prepared for the first few games of the season, then I will join anyone in criticising the choice of pre season perpetration.

If it does the job AND builds ties with a new market in Africa then it will have been a great success and may of you on this thread will be wrong.

Let's wait and see shall we...?!

Here you go fella... http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/20140106-botswanatour-1274421.aspx

 

If I may add...this is just another thread that sums up BCFC imho.

We get soundbites of what the Club are doing, but never really in depth articles of WHY???

 

This leads to the fan base often having no idea of what's going on, or the reasons why.

Hence why we have a thread like this and others.

Fans often post up threads asking questions, because the Club have never really gone into enough detail when they announce something.

It often leads to confusion and the wrong answers being believed.

 

It's definitely something I feel the Club could do a lot better at. Providing more in depth articles and reasons why.

 

If often read websites run by lower league Clubs and theirs often puts ours and other bigger clubs to shame.

 

FGR's is one prime example.

[Cider red]

Any chance of us scouting some Botswana internationals? Probably some half decent players in their team I would have thought.

[Red-Robbo]

Any chance of us scouting some Botswana internationals? Probably some half decent players in their team I would have thought.

Not so sure of that CR. Botswana is one of Africa's smaller countries - population wise anyway - and football is very much a developing sport there.

That's not to say a few gems might emerge eventually, but I'd be surprised if there was anyone ready for the English third tier there atm .

*stands back and prepares to be proven wrong!*

[samo II]

Not so sure of that CR. Botswana is one of Africa's smaller countries - population wise anyway - and football is very much a developing sport there.

That's not to say a few gems might emerge eventually, but I'd be surprised if there was anyone ready for the English third tier there atm .

*stands back and prepares to be proven wrong!*

True, but currently a 18 year old Zimbabwean player at MK Dons is being looked at by Prem teams, and although Zimbabwe is a large country, I'd wager it isn't as stable as Botswana, which may play into facilities for sports some.  

 

And, who knows?  Botswana is only a little smaller than Uruguay, so population size doesn't dictate how good your players are.

 

Could happen.

[glynriley]

Not so sure of that CR. Botswana is one of Africa's smaller countries - population wise anyway - and football is very much a developing sport there.

That's not to say a few gems might emerge eventually, but I'd be surprised if there was anyone ready for the English third tier there atm .

*stands back and prepares to be proven wrong!*

 

The manager of the Botswana national team is English so it could be a useful contact for any future stars.

[downendcity]

Here you go fella... http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/20140106-botswanatour-1274421.aspx

 

If I may add...this is just another thread that sums up BCFC imho.

We get soundbites of what the Club are doing, but never really in depth articles of WHY???

 

This leads to the fan base often having no idea of what's going on, or the reasons why.

Hence why we have a thread like this and others.

Fans often post up threads asking questions, because the Club have never really gone into enough detail when they announce something.

It often leads to confusion and the wrong answers being believed.

 

It's definitely something I feel the Club could do a lot better at. Providing more in depth articles and reasons why.

 

If often read websites run by lower league Clubs and theirs often puts ours and other bigger clubs to shame.

 

FGR's is one prime example.

 

 

As with so many things, the club is in a no win situation.

 

On any subject, if they provide a good degree of information it often seems to be dissected, analysed to within an inch of its life in order to find some deep lying, hidden meaning and then we see some fans take a small element of what the club has said, often out of context,  in a negative way  against the club itself.

 

On the other hand, if the cub provides a limited amount of  information then the club is criticised anyway, and the lack of information  is taken by some to indicate  that the club  is ether hiding things from fans or has some hidden agenda.

 

The real truth is that the trip to Botswana is really a front for a coup d'etat that Steve and his wealthy chums have put together in order to secure the massive mineral wealth lying beneath Botswana, a la Frederick Forsyth's Dogs of War. Did you expect the club to post full details of that on OTIB?

 

P.S. For the Evening Post and GCHQ if your listening in, I made the last bit up - really!

[GrahamC]

Not so sure of that CR. Botswana is one of Africa's smaller countries - population wise anyway - and football is very much a developing sport there.

That's not to say a few gems might emerge eventually, but I'd be surprised if there was anyone ready for the English third tier there atm .

*stands back and prepares to be proven wrong!*

I think you're right.

They did qualify for the 2012 African Nations Cup, but did very poorly once they'd qualified.

A few of their presumably better players play in South Africa but the other issue is that their lowly FIFA ranking makes a work permit a lot harder to obtain.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Wow.

 

It didn't cross my mind that a pre season trip somewhere different could be so emotive.

 

I just want City to get promoted.

 

But then again, I'm just a shallow footie fan really.

[Anglia Red]

Rustenburg is an excellent training facility and if gets the team away to focus on the job in hand I am all for it. If they get a dose of reality of how other people have to live I'm all for it. Just back from a second charity trip to South Africa myself.

[Chalkie]

. If they get a dose of reality of how other people have to live I'm all for it. 

Rovers will get that in south Wales - plus they can go home every night for their tea.  

[Cowshed]

To get a sense of what the Community Trust actually do, the number of kids they are involved with each year (50,000), their growth in recent years, and their plans for the future, you could do worse than read their most recent annual report and accounts on the Charity Commission website. This is publicly available information, and shows the figures up until April 2013.

Go to http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/  and type in 'Bristol City Community Trust' in the search box.

I am aware of what the Community trust does, as I stated my son has attended Community trust coaching. Taking the Community trust to Africa does not grow the Community trust activities here in Bristol.

[extonsred]

Beg to differ - the outpourings on here about the trip has given City great publicity. Even bad oublicity is recognised often as being good for the product. Some people will also approve of City looking outside the box n being more creative in the running of their business.

Cannot see it as an issue at all tbh.

[spudski]

As with so many things, the club is in a no win situation.

 

On any subject, if they provide a good degree of information it often seems to be dissected, analysed to within an inch of its life in order to find some deep lying, hidden meaning and then we see some fans take a small element of what the club has said, often out of context,  in a negative way  against the club itself.

 

On the other hand, if the cub provides a limited amount of  information then the club is criticised anyway, and the lack of information  is taken by some to indicate  that the club  is ether hiding things from fans or has some hidden agenda.

 

The real truth is that the trip to Botswana is really a front for a coup d'etat that Steve and his wealthy chums have put together in order to secure the massive mineral wealth lying beneath Botswana, a la Frederick Forsyth's Dogs of War. Did you expect the club to post full details of that on OTIB?

 

P.S. For the Evening Post and GCHQ if your listening in, I made the last bit up - really!

I understand your sentiments mate...but it has often been said on here that the Club could improve on the information it gives an go into better detail.

 

I can't remember reading anything by City that couldn't have more detail provided.

 

The Club should listen to the paying fans if they feel it could do better in a certain department.

 

The one thing you can read from the City statement in the link I provided, is that the Botswana trip is considered a Community trip and part of the five pillars ethos.

 

As for your last paragraph... You aren't far from the truth imho. What other reason would we as a Club be going to Botswana if it weren't for SL's 'connections'. It will all be good for the financial benefit of either him or the Club...which I have no problem with.

But to make out the main purpose to go their is for 'community work' and help out???? Hmmmmm....