General Election 2015 Match Day Thread (Merged)

[Red-Robbo]

You are correct, amended, but she's a pretty good actress as well, I loved her in the HSBC chronicles the other week.

 

Yep she plays posh birds with long faces, but was quite tasty back in the day.

 

Re: Margaret Hodge: the Telegraph seems to have accepted that its attempted smear over her family background is rubbish  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9740964/Margaret-Hodge-MP-apology.html 

 

The tax affairs of the Barclay brothers who own the Telegraph however is much more interesting.  Funnily enough, once the BBC pointed this out - drawing on information that Private Eye had been printing for ages - the reclusive twins issued a cultural fatwa via the Torygraph against the Beeb, including having one reporter permanently on duty to write anti-Beeb stories, and an anti-licence fee editorial about once every fortnight.

 

Those interested can watch the doc here https://barclaybrothers.wordpress.com/2013/01/29/watch-the-bbc-panorama-on-the-barclay-twins/  but bear in mind this is the heavily lawyered version. The interesting stuff about how the twins were able to get enough dosh to buy the Telegraph was largely omitted.

[Up The City!]

Put down the daily mail for a second.

How about paying them to clean the streets? If not its pretty much slavery

Do you realise people on jsa take up a tiny proportion of the current welfare bill? The vast majority goes on pensions and oaps and sometimes even the vulnerable members of society who are too ill to work

But these people have spent a lifetime working and paying taxes so they fully deserve to get back some of what they have paid in.

[chipdawg]

But these people have spent a lifetime working and paying taxes so they fully deserve to get back some of what they have paid in.

I don't think anyone is objecting to retired people being paid pensions, more the way the relative costs of different aspects of the welfare bill are misrepresented

The bigger issue in my mind is the level of 'in work' benefits the nation pays out. We can't really do anything about an ageing population, but we can encourage companies to pay a living wage to employees where possible. I'm not really sure if any party (other than 'Oppo-UKIP' Green Party) are actually asking for that

[luke_bristol]

[Portland Bill]

[reddevon]

The people who do the best out of the EU are farmers, they get massive subsidy's.

They vote Tory as well!

 

That's what I thought, so why is it that there are loads of fields with great big UKIP posters everywhere in Devon?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Yep she plays posh birds with long faces, but was quite tasty back in the day.

 

Re: Margaret Hodge: the Telegraph seems to have accepted that its attempted smear over her family background is rubbish  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9740964/Margaret-Hodge-MP-apology.html 

 

The tax affairs of the Barclay brothers who own the Telegraph however is much more interesting.  Funnily enough, once the BBC pointed this out - drawing on information that Private Eye had been printing for ages - the reclusive twins issued a cultural fatwa via the Torygraph against the Beeb, including having one reporter permanently on duty to write anti-Beeb stories, and an anti-licence fee editorial about once every fortnight.

 

Those interested can watch the doc here https://barclaybrothers.wordpress.com/2013/01/29/watch-the-bbc-panorama-on-the-barclay-twins/  but bear in mind this is the heavily lawyered version. The interesting stuff about how the twins were able to get enough dosh to buy the Telegraph was largely omitted.

 

I read an article recently claiming that the only reason that the press is laying off of Hodge is because she has threatened everybody and it's dog with libel actions, but the article went on to say "she is definitely a tax avoider", which sounds about right.

 

As I keep saying RR they are all at it, in main the political class want US and BIG NON ENGLISH companies to pay their fair share of tax whilst dodging paying their's in any way that they can, instead of MP after their names it should just read hypocrite.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The people who do the best out of the EU are farmers, they get massive subsidy's.

They vote Tory as well!

 

The thing is Bill there has effectively been 'tory' governments in the since 1979, including the 15 years of New Labour.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

That's what I thought, so why is it that there are loads of fields with great big UKIP posters everywhere in Devon?

It may be ideology as much as anything else. Many people in Scotland who worked on trident voted for independence, despite the SNP pledging an independent Scotland would get rid of nuclear weapons.

Also each party has a range of policies, some of which contradict one another. For example the Greens want to protect the environment yet also propose the biggest amount of housebuilding and UKIP and Conservatives are most "free market" yet are some of the strongest supporters of planning controls.

[I have no clue]

That's what I thought, so why is it that there are loads of fields with great big UKIP posters everywhere in Devon?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/apr/14/boston-lincolnshire-nigel-farage-ukip-migrants-video

This summarizes it well in Boston where they rely on cheap EU migrants on the fields. I'm not sure how prevalent it is in Devon but I know Cornwall relies heavily.

[...]

Ed Balls face?

 

"Just look at it, FFS".

 

 

 

TFR

[Red-Robbo]

I read an article recently claiming that the only reason that the press is laying off of Hodge is because she has threatened everybody and it's dog with libel actions, but the article went on to say "she is definitely a tax avoider", which sounds about right.

 

As I keep saying RR they are all at it, in main the political class want US and BIG NON ENGLISH companies to pay their fair share of tax whilst dodging paying their's in any way that they can, instead of MP after their names it should just read hypocrite.

 

I believe she's part of the South African Oppenheimer dynasty, so she'll probably have some shares in that. But to portray it as "her company" is obviously nonsense. She's been a professional politician since the 70s. This isn't a Grant Shapps/Michael Green scenario.

[marshy]

That's what I thought, so why is it that there are loads of fields with great big UKIP posters everywhere in Devon?

 

Made me laugh but so true. The farmers that benefit most are those such as the French which are the least efficient. It's typical of the EU, if you are doing well then you hand over cash to those countries which aren't. Helps keep Socialism alive.

[Red-Robbo]

Made me laugh but so true. The farmers that benefit most are those such as the French which are the least efficient. It's typical of the EU, if you are doing well then you hand over cash to those countries which aren't. Helps keep Socialism alive.

 

You do realise that the president of Commission, the largest voting bloc in the European Parliament and the majority of leaders in the European Council (ie: the collective body formed by the heads of state of EU member countries) are from right-wing parties, don't you Marshy?  

 

Not like a UKIP endorser to get fundamental facts about Europe wrong!  

 

I think many socialists would see the EU as an inherently pro-business, pro-capitalism organisation. The freedom of movement of labour, for example, can be seem as a mechanism whereby capitalists keep the unit cost of labour down by simply importing people to undercut indigenous Western Europeans. 

[marshy]

You do realise that the president of Commission, the largest voting bloc in the European Parliament and the majority of leaders in the European Council (ie: the collective body formed by the heads of state of EU member countries) are from right-wing parties, don't you Marshy?  

 

Not like a UKIP endorser to get fundamental facts about Europe wrong!  

 

I think many socialists would see the EU as an inherently pro-business, pro-capitalism organisation. The freedom of movement of labour, for example, can be seem as a mechanism whereby capitalists keep the unit cost of labour down by simply importing people to undercut indigenous Western Europeans. 

 

None of what you state contradicts the point I was making about farming and that CAP loving Juncker. The names and allegiance of the vast majority of European Council members would be unknown to the UK electorate, in any sane system of governance they should be an irrelevance. With regard to voting blocs in the EP we must be looking at different figures or apportioning them differently. In any case it's a talking shop and a pointless waste of taxpayers money. Still who's to care, there's a vast pot of funds to dip their hands into. 

 

I would agree with most of your final para. In so far as many socialists would see it as pro-capitalist, just as many free marketeers would see it as pro-socialist. What is beyond dispute is that, as you hint, the virtually limitless supply of cheap labour means that firms will obviously utilise this rather than attempt to increase productivity. This is the main reason the UK tends to lag behind in the productivity league. Given this it always amazes me why so many socialists tend to favour EU membership. 

 

I can only assume it's because Socialists tend to be attracted to large organizations. One day it won't be the soft lefties like Barroso and Schulz running the show but a megalomaniac like Mao or Stalin. Then they can incite the media to whip up a storm against Putin or his successor and we can all trot off to war against Russia. '1984' here we come and don't say you weren't warned, fortunately I shall be dead and burnt by then.

[Red-Robbo]

None of what you state contradicts the point I was making about farming and that CAP loving Juncker. The names and allegiance of the vast majority of European Council members would be unknown to the UK electorate, in any sane system of governance they should be an irrelevance. With regard to voting blocs in the EP we must be looking at different figures or apportioning them differently. In any case it's a talking shop and a pointless waste of taxpayers money. Still who's to care, there's a vast pot of funds to dip their hands into. 

 

I would agree with most of your final para. In so far as many socialists would see it as pro-capitalist, just as many free marketeers would see it as pro-socialist. What is beyond dispute is that, as you hint, the virtually limitless supply of cheap labour means that firms will obviously utilise this rather than attempt to increase productivity. This is the main reason the UK tends to lag behind in the productivity league. Given this it always amazes me why so many socialists tend to favour EU membership. 

 

I can only assume it's because Socialists tend to be attracted to large organizations. One day it won't be the soft lefties like Barroso and Schulz running the show but a megalomaniac like Mao or Stalin. Then they can incite the media to whip up a storm against Putin or his successor and we can all trot off to war against Russia. '1984' here we come and don't say you weren't warned, fortunately I shall be dead and burnt by then.

 

Wouldn't Stalin be rather keen on Putin, Marshy?  They do after all, share some of the same modus operandi and ideology. Putin loyalist town administrations are actually resurrecting statues of the mass murderer these days.

 

But that's by the by, I don't disagree with any of your first par at all.

 

You lose me a bit on the second one though. Socialists "like large organisations" is a sort of analysis that would earn an F in any politics exam paper you'd care to mention. It won't have missed your keen observation that the mass anti-EU movements in Greece, Spain and Italy (to name but three) are coming from the radical Left.

[RedM]

I went up to North Wales by car on Saturday and thought I'd do my own poll from just looking at all th election signs on the way. We motorway'ed it on the way up but went the scenic route on the way back. I don't think I saw more than 2 Labour signs in 350 miles. I was surprised to see mostly Tory, followed very closely by UKIP and only very few Plaid Cymbu even though I was in a very Welsh speaking place.

Yesterday I went to Bournemouth, Christchurch and Mudeford in Dorset from Bristol by car. Went through lots of towns and villages. Saw a few Lib Dems, quite a few Greens, one or two UKIP and a few Tory's, pretty even split amongst those, but again not as many Labour.

Obviously not everyone declares their voting intention publicly, but if by the signage alone the election will be won by the Conservatives at a canter, or a UKIP/Green coalition to keep them out!

I do accept my observations are flawed, maybe the Tory's just spent more money on signs!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I believe she's part of the South African Oppenheimer dynasty, so she'll probably have some shares in that. But to portray it as "her company" is obviously nonsense. She's been a professional politician since the 70s. This isn't a Grant Shapps/Michael Green scenario.

 

Which I haven't, I quoted it as a 'family business' of which she is a major shareholder, whatever way you look at it, it's yet again the double standards that 'MOST' politicians gladly seem to involve them selves in, if tax avoidance was available to all there would be no problem (apart from to the treasury of course) but it is generally only something that only people with 'MONEY' can dabble in.

 

it's a bit 'RICH' (pun intended) that the people who can actually afford to pay tax spend so much time trying to avoid paying it, whilst the rest of us have no choice and we end up paying even more for the mistakes that they make (every time) and it's especially 'RICH' when spearheading a policy about making big companies pay their fair share, you are not 'ALLEGEDLY' .

 

and just for clarity that means any politician whatever their political persuasion, colour, creed, religious beliefs, none of them, not one of them should be involved in any tax avoidance scheme whatsoever, that is not available to every man Jack of us.

[Red-Robbo]

Which I haven't, I quoted it as a 'family business' of which she is a major shareholder, whatever way you look at it, it's yet again the double standards that 'MOST' politicians gladly seem to involve them selves in, if tax avoidance was available to all there would be no problem (apart from to the treasury of course) but it is generally only something that only people with 'MONEY' can dabble in.

it's a bit 'RICH' (pun intended) that the people who can actually afford to pay tax spend so much time trying to avoid paying it, whilst the rest of us have no choice and we end up paying even more for the mistakes that they make (every time) and it's especially 'RICH' when spearheading a policy about making big companies pay their fair share, you are not 'ALLEGEDLY' .

and just for clarity that means any politician whatever their political persuasion, colour, creed, religious beliefs, none of them, not one of them should be involved in any tax avoidance scheme whatsoever, that is not available to every man Jack of us.

I didn't mean you, Es. The original Telegraph story/smear used those words.

Agree with the rest. Not sure Steve Lansdown would though...

[Red-Robbo]

I went up to North Wales by car on Saturday and thought I'd do my own poll from just looking at all th election signs on the way. We motorway'ed it on the way up but went the scenic route on the way back. I don't think I saw more than 2 Labour signs in 350 miles. I was surprised to see mostly Tory, followed very closely by UKIP and only very few Plaid Cymbu even though I was in a very Welsh speaking place.

Yesterday I went to Bournemouth, Christchurch and Mudeford in Dorset from Bristol by car. Went through lots of towns and villages. Saw a few Lib Dems, quite a few Greens, one or two UKIP and a few Tory's, pretty even split amongst those, but again not as many Labour.

Obviously not everyone declares their voting intention publicly, but if by the signage alone the election will be won by the Conservatives at a canter, or a UKIP/Green coalition to keep them out!

I do accept my observations are flawed, maybe the Tory's just spent more money on signs!

Lib Dems are winning the battle of the signs in this part of Somerset, no question about that. However this probably means f**** all in the real election.

I spent the weekend in North London, and there Lib Dems and Labour signage was the norm. I didn't see a single declared Tory or UKIP voter - although there must be some!

On a more general theme, there's an interesting supplement in today's Times which reveals a YouGov survey has found that Labour has a lead on the Tories for every age group until you hit 60, after which you are 50% more likely to vote Conservative than Labour. So there, Ed Miliband now you know all you need to di is to disenfranchise pensioners and you'll win a landslide!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I didn't mean you, Es. The original Telegraph story/smear used those words.

Agree with the rest. Not sure Steve Lansdown would though...

 

As for the SL comment, let's start with the preachers/hypocrites, the one's with MP after their names, the one's that get off on telling the rest of 'US', what's best for 'US', what 'WE' should be doing and how we are all in it together and how 'US and WE' are going to pay for the corruption of others, whilst they entangled their money in tax avoidance schemes and trust's and the like, that's the point when I say would OK, now let's go after the rest, not tell us how bad these companies are whilst doing exactly the same albeit on smaller and individual scale.

 

Either open up these avoidance schemes to everybody or nobody, start with the hypocrite MP's and I would suspect a vast majority of the 600 odd MP's are in some way not paying their share (according to earnings and investments). 

 

We know how many are still trying to fiddle their expenses, flip 2nd homes, paying phantom family workers and phantom renting to or from family members, so tax avoidance/fiddling is in their DNA.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

I went up to North Wales by car on Saturday and thought I'd do my own poll from just looking at all th election signs on the way. We motorway'ed it on the way up but went the scenic route on the way back. I don't think I saw more than 2 Labour signs in 350 miles. I was surprised to see mostly Tory, followed very closely by UKIP and only very few Plaid Cymbu even though I was in a very Welsh speaking place.

Yesterday I went to Bournemouth, Christchurch and Mudeford in Dorset from Bristol by car. Went through lots of towns and villages. Saw a few Lib Dems, quite a few Greens, one or two UKIP and a few Tory's, pretty even split amongst those, but again not as many Labour.

Obviously not everyone declares their voting intention publicly, but if by the signage alone the election will be won by the Conservatives at a canter, or a UKIP/Green coalition to keep them out!

I do accept my observations are flawed, maybe the Tory's just spent more money on signs!

Labour have historically, and continue to be, strong in urban and industrial areas. Conservatives, and to a lesser extent the Lib Dems are stronger in "the shires". I suggest the reason you didn't see any Labour signs is because you avoided any major labour areas.

 

Edit: The May2015.com predicted seat map at this page shows it better than I can describe!

[RedM]

I take the points made about not being in a Labour part of the country on both days, but I suppose what did strike me was the strength of support for the Tories.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

Some interesting polls out today, all taken over the weekend. Populous show Labour 3 ahead, Yougov show Labour 1 ahead, ICM shows the Conservatives 3 ahead and Ashcroft shows Conservatives 6 ahead.

Based on a uniform swing across the country only the Ashcroft one will likely result in Cameron staying as PM (this will allow a coalition between Conservatives, Lib Dems and either the DUP or UKIP).

The other 3 polls, and the average would likely see Miliband as PM.

[Portland Bill]

I take the points made about not being in a Labour part of the country on both days, but I suppose what did strike me was the strength of support for the Tories.

Just about every farmers field in Somerset has Tory signs in it.

But there is only one Tory MP in the county!

[Portland Bill]

Some interesting polls out today, all taken over the weekend. Populous show Labour 3 ahead, Yougov show Labour 1 ahead, ICM shows the Conservatives 3 ahead and Ashcroft shows Conservatives 6 ahead.

Based on a uniform swing across the country only the Ashcroft one will likely result in Cameron staying as PM (this will allow a coalition between Conservatives, Lib Dems and either the DUP or UKIP).

The other 3 polls, and the average would likely see Miliband as PM.

This is a very good website for all your polling needs.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just about every farmers field in Somerset has Tory signs in it.

But there is only one Tory MP in the county!

 

Probably because Ed isn't keen on bacon?.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

This is a very good website for all your polling needs.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

Indeed, I've also recently become something of an anorak over the polls and started checking out various predictions as well (May 2015, Guardian Poll Projection and Election forecast.co.uk). The projections all seem to suggest the Conservative party will narrowly get more seats than labour, however, Ed Miliband will likely end up as PM due to the support of the other parties (SNP, Plaid, SDLP, Greens, Respect etc) who will (supposedly) never support a Conservative led government.

[Red-Robbo]

Probably because Ed isn't keen on bacon?.

If that's a jocular reference to his Jewish ancestry it fails a bit, because the Milibands were brought up in a secular household and never did the religion thing.

Same in my house. Mrs Robbo is a keen fan of bacon, despite her ancestors all being Red Sea Pedestrians.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

If that's a jocular reference to his Jewish ancestry it fails a bit, because the Milibands were brought up in a secular household and never did the religion thing.

Same in my house. Mrs Robbo is a keen fan of bacon, despite her ancestors all being Red Sea Pedestrians.

 

You know exactly what it refers to don't you? and you know it's a joke.

 

and here's another an ex mates wife once said and I quote "I could quite easily become a vegetarian tomorrow, but I could never give up bacon".