Location Of Away Fans At Completed Ashton Gate

[CIDER NOT CIDRE]

I did vote Atyeo for away fans however after reading peoples arguments on here I think upper Williams is the best option for all the above reasons. Would also be great to have a whole bank of vocal fans behind the goal (in theory...).

 

Only concern with the upper tier of the Williams is how would they exit the stadium without having to mix with city fans in the concourses and stairways for example as they'd be descending on city fans exciting from the lower tier. Also can't see where else vocal city fans would go as the south stand seems to be out the question and to me it's a better option for the vocal support to be behind the goal rather than in the side stands.

[ChippenhamRed]

I still can't get past the fact that the stadium design screams out for the away fans to be placed in the Atyeo. It just seems so obvious to me.

I thought one of the reasons the singers were moving into the Atyeo this season was to bring them closer to away support for the benefit of atmosphere. Sticking the away fans in Williams upper goes completely against the grain in that respect and would do nothing for the overall atmosphere.

More often than not there will be gaps and I would much prefer to see those confined to the upper Williams, and prioritise filling the lower tiers in all stands.

If we drew Man Utd in the cup I'd also be pretty annoyed if I couldn't get a ticket because we had to net off areas for segregation (also reducing the club's income), which could easily have been avoided.

I'm also not entirely convinced the singers couldn't go in some dedicated blocks in the middle of the South Stand. Allocating the middle three blocks wouldn't place them directly next to family area at one end or the corporate facility at the other.

[Wanderingred]

Standing will not be tolerated in the Dolman, the club have made that crystal clear.

 

The hostile Dolman Blocks A&B of the past will never be allowed to be recreated at AG.

 

The last thing the club wants is lots of fans in the Dolman who are determined to stand to be right next to the away fans in the Atyeo, it's not going to happen, let alone be encouraged.

 

Plenty of other clubs make this sort of arrangement happen. Millwall, Forest, Oldham, even bloody Reading, the most plastic club in the world have vocal sets of fans next to the away end that can generate a good atmosphere and are allowed to stand.

There is absolutely no reason other than jobsworthness, (not a word but you get the idea) and unwillingness to compromise why it couldn't be implemented at Ashton Gate. We've got to do all we can to ensure that the new build doesn't become a morgue atmosphere wise. That would be awful.

[Tinmans Love Child]

I'm wondering where all these mythical singing fans are going to appear from to fill both the Atyeo and South Stands??

[ChippenhamRed]

I'm wondering where all these mythical singing fans are going to appear from to fill both the Atyeo and South Stands??

Indeed! Lot of people getting a bit unrealistically romantic about the nature of our support. As if when the stadium is finished we will suddenly be Borussia Dortmund.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I'm wondering where all these mythical singing fans are going to appear from to fill both the Atyeo and South Stands??

 

The EE of the 70's is often lauded on here for it's fantastic atmosphere, and very often that was indeed the case. 

 

But the equivalent of today's 'singers' were a few hundred, mostly 14-25 year olds, grouped directly behind the goal who started the chants and songs, and kept them going.

 

If the rest of those in the EE were in the mood, or we were winning, or particularly if it was a needle match, the noise and singing would spread across the end and reach far greater volume. But mostly it was concentrated in the centre.

 

It would be similar in the new Atyeo. A few hundred determined 'singers' and plenty around them joining in when the mood took them.

 

As for the South Stand under the circumstances of the Atyeo becoming City's new end, there would no doubt be constant encouragement from the families, community groups etc. that it seems are destined to be a large part of it's make up. To expect 2 vibrant singing ends when families are being so encouraged is perhaps unrealistic though.

 

Crucially though, with away fans in the Williams, City would be playing towards a red bank of their own supporters all the time, so no hassle for our players from the away fans and the opposition would get minimal encouragement from their own followers, giving us a genuine home advantage and an undisputed Fortress Ashton Gate.

[ChippenhamRed]

The EE of the 70's is often lauded on here for it's fantastic atmosphere, and very often that was indeed the case.

But the equivalent of today's 'singers' were a few hundred, mostly 14-25 year olds, grouped directly behind the goal who started the chants and songs, and kept them going.

If the rest of those in the EE were in the mood, or we were winning, or particularly if it was a needle match, the noise and singing would spread across the end and reach far greater volume. But mostly it was concentrated in the centre.

It would be similar in the new Atyeo. A few hundred determined 'singers' and plenty around them joining in when the mood took them.

As for the South Stand under the circumstances of the Atyeo becoming City's new end, there would no doubt be constant encouragement from the families, community groups etc. that it seems are destined to be a large part of it's make up. To expect 2 vibrant singing ends when families are being so encouraged is perhaps unrealistic though.

Crucially though, with away fans in the Williams, City would be playing towards a red bank of their own supporters all the time, so no hassle for our players from the away fans and the opposition would get minimal encouragement from their own followers, giving us a genuine home advantage and an undisputed Fortress Ashton Gate.

Fortress Ashton Gate? Or a library with no interaction with away supporters because they're miles away, thus resulting in a flat atmosphere? I know what's more likely.

There is no point in pretending we are Galatasaray. More often than not the atmosphere is relatively quiet and the close proximity of away fans to stir our own support into action is no bad thing. Games like Swindon this season are few and far between.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Fortress Ashton Gate? Or a library with no interaction with away supporters because they're miles away, thus resulting in a flat atmosphere? I know what's more likely.

There is no point in pretending we are Galatasaray. More often than not the atmosphere is relatively quiet and the close proximity of away fans to stir our own support into action is no bad thing. Games like Swindon this season are few and far between.

 

I don't understand this apparent obsession with the away supporters or that close proximity is so vital to a good home atmosphere.

 

The EE of the 70's was a pitch length from the away supporters, but no problem then with creating a great atmosphere in the home end.

 

The reason it's been quiet this season is the building works and fans being moved around meaning we haven't had a proper City home end, like the EE of the past, or possibly the Atyeo of the future.

[ChippenhamRed]

I don't understand this apparent obsession with the away supporters or that close proximity is so vital to a good home atmosphere.

The EE of the 70's was a pitch length from the away supporters, but no problem then with creating a great atmosphere in the home end.

The reason it's been quiet this season is the building works and fans being moved around meaning we haven't had a proper City home end, like the EE of the past, or possibly the Atyeo of the future.

The atmosphere has been generally quiet for years, not just this season. That's why we always hark back to the atmosphere at the Palace game - because it's the exception not the rule. The 70s are long gone and football crowds just aren't like that anymore. You have to try harder to create an atmosphere these days. Putting the away fans close isn't vital, but it does help.

You are overstating the size of our hardcore singing group if you think we are going to get anywhere near filling the Atyeo. Most people still chose the Dolman or Williams even when the EE was an option - why would they suddenly choose to sit in the Atyeo, with its inferior facilities and poorer view of the pitch? Look at the poll results here - most people are voting to put the away fans there, which doesn't exactly suggest a groundswell of feeling towards creating a "proper" home end in the Atyeo.

My personal preference would be to allocate the middle three blocks of the South Stand for the singers. This gives people the home end they want but maintains separation to the family and corporate corners on either side. It also enables the stadium to function at its best - with an uninterrupted concourse around three sides, an entirely separate stand for away support, and no requirement for capacity-reducing segregation.

[Nogbad the Bad]

The atmosphere has been generally quiet for years, not just this season. That's why we always hark back to the atmosphere at the Palace game - because it's the exception not the rule. The 70s are long gone and football crowds just aren't like that anymore. You have to try harder to create an atmosphere these days. Putting the away fans close isn't vital, but it does help.

You are overstating the size of our hardcore singing group if you think we are going to get anywhere near filling the Atyeo. Most people still chose the Dolman or Williams even when the EE was an option - why would they suddenly choose to sit in the Atyeo, with its inferior facilities and poorer view of the pitch? Look at the poll results here - most people are voting to put the away fans there, which doesn't exactly suggest a groundswell of feeling towards creating a "proper" home end in the Atyeo.

My personal preference would be to allocate the middle three blocks of the South Stand for the singers. This gives people the home end they want but maintains separation to the family and corporate corners on either side. It also enables the stadium to function at its best - with an uninterrupted concourse around three sides, an entirely separate stand for away support, and no requirement for capacity-reducing segregation.

 

The East Enders would say there's been a great atmosphere in there for years - minus SO'D like periods of club depression, and there were huge sterile areas there.

 

You need excitement to ever get the whole ground going but a determined few hundred (I didn't say the whole 4,000 in the Atyeo would ever be 'hardcore singers') can have a galvanising effect on many in the stand, and ground, who would join in.

 

If you give over the Atyeo completely to away fans you'd have to net off large areas at both ends and certainly the lower area of block A of the Dolman.

 

The club have said they have no intention of tolerating standing in the South Stand, so as reasonable as your preference is to have the singers in the middle 3 stands, it's a non-starter I'm afraid. It's also contrary to your previous arguments, being about as far away from the away fans ( in your scenario in the Atyeo) as you could possibly get.

 

If we want to have a Bristol City 'end' in the future where standing, flags, and the excesses (compared with what will be permitted elsewhere in the ground) of our more exuberant fans will be tolerated in the fashion they're accustomed to, it looks to me like we/they press for the entire Atyeo, or such an area may never be available to them at AG again.

[Phileas Fogg]

The East Enders would say there's been a great atmosphere in there for years - minus SO'D like periods of club depression, and there were huge sterile areas there.

You need excitement to ever get the whole ground going but a determined few hundred (I didn't say the whole 4,000 in the Atyeo would ever be 'hardcore singers') can have a galvanising effect on many in the stand, and ground, who would join in.

If you give over the Atyeo completely to away fans you'd have to net off large areas at both ends and certainly the lower area of block A of the Dolman.

The club have said they have no intention of tolerating standing in the South Stand, so as reasonable as your preference is to have the singers in the middle 3 stands, it's a non-starter I'm afraid. It's also contrary to your previous arguments, being about as far away from the away fans ( in your scenario in the Atyeo) as you could possibly get.

If we want to have a Bristol City 'end' in the future where standing, flags, and the excesses (compared with what will be permitted elsewhere in the ground) of our more exuberant fans will be tolerated in the fashion they're accustomed to, it looks to me like we/they press for the entire Atyeo, or such an area may never be available to them at AG again.

Exactly!! The poll isn't that relevant really, otib is a small cross section and from reading posts on here mostly aren't EE'rs.

I have a sneaking suspicion those that want away fans in the Atyeo just want the chance to use the upper Williams themselves!

[ChippenhamRed]

The East Enders would say there's been a great atmosphere in there for years - minus SO'D like periods of club depression, and there were huge sterile areas there.

 

You need excitement to ever get the whole ground going but a determined few hundred (I didn't say the whole 4,000 in the Atyeo would ever be 'hardcore singers') can have a galvanising effect on many in the stand, and ground, who would join in.

 

If you give over the Atyeo completely to away fans you'd have to net off large areas at both ends and certainly the lower area of block A of the Dolman.

 

The club have said they have no intention of tolerating standing in the South Stand, so as reasonable as your preference is to have the singers in the middle 3 stands, it's a non-starter I'm afraid. It's also contrary to your previous arguments, being about as far away from the away fans ( in your scenario in the Atyeo) as you could possibly get.

 

If we want to have a Bristol City 'end' in the future where standing, flags, and the excesses (compared with what will be permitted elsewhere in the ground) of our more exuberant fans will be tolerated in the fashion they're accustomed to, it looks to me like we/they press for the entire Atyeo, or such an area may never be available to them at AG again.

Fair point about the South Stand standing, I had forgotten that.

In terms of distance from the home fans, for me putting the away fans in the Williams upper feels like the worst option - I fear they would seem detached from the rest of the ground in the lower tier, even if technically they are closer to the South Stand than they would be in the Atyeo. I just think the whole atmosphere would benefit from having all fans on the same level. In terms of proximity I wasn't only thinking of the singers anyway.

Not at all convinced you would need netting in any other stands if the away fans were in the Atyeo.

I do appreciate your desire to have an end where the more exuberant fans are tolerated though and certainly respect your argument! I just think it would be a shame to compromise the stadium function to achieve it, and I'm still not convinced the Williams upper is the answer.

[slartibartfast]

Haven't trawled through this, but my idea would be like Boro last night. A strip of however many (3k?) upper and lower williams at the Atyeo end/corner, simples .

[gordie]

Haven't trawled through this, but my idea would be like Boro last night. A strip of however many (3k?) upper and lower williams at the Atyeo end/corner, simples .

would be my choice also but can't see you being able to stand in there which again will rule it out for a lot

[slartibartfast]

would be my choice also but can't see you being able to stand in there which again will rule it out for a lot

No, I meant for away fans, don't care whether they stand or not, be extra vigilant stewarding.

[WTMS]

Wasn't one of the reasons we reopened the east end (aside from the fantastic persistant fans) was the fact that we couldn't make an atmosphere in the atyeo because it was crap and the acoustics were awful,

To a degree yes. Steve Lansdown at a meeting to discuss the open the Eastend petition basically said "I can't see why you don't go in the Atyeo?" There was space, but as an environment v the Eastend it was viewed as poor. Some fans simply will not use that stand who frequented the Eastend, a theme which is again occurring next season.

I don't understand this apparent obsession with the away supporters or that close proximity is so vital to a good home atmosphere.

The EE of the 70's was a pitch length from the away supporters, but no problem then with creating a great atmosphere in the home end.

The reason it's been quiet this season is the building works and fans being moved around meaning we haven't had a proper City home end, like the EE of the past, or possibly the Atyeo of the future.

People are being realistic. The EE of the 70's, the stand does not exist anymore, and neither does the demographic. The days of ends are gone, long gone the ends that are left are shadows of their former selves. At ground after ground the atmosphere is generated by that interaction between fans. This is a trait of modern football and stadia.

Fans have moved to the Dolman and Atyeo for next season because of the location of the away support. This is a fact. Remove the away support and?

The Williams E would have benefited this season from having away support in closer proximity. There were other dynamics that affected that area, but it is naive in the extreme to suggest that the away fans being in the corner of the Atyeo did not have a significant effect on the atmosphere of the Williams.

The club have said they have no intention of tolerating standing in the South Stand

Bristol City FC also said the same about the Eastend and Williams stand. They handed out leaflets to fans and invited supporters to meetings. Some fans met with the council, contacted the FSF - Things change and evolve, Ashton Gate has - Steve Lansdown was 100% opposed to re-opening the Eastend!!

[fabio]

Yes, you missed the club recently saying they were considering making the Atyeo all City fans in the future and putting the away fans out the way in what would otherwise be a mostly unused top tier of the Williams.

In other words what we've been discussing for most of this thread.

Sorry haven't heard it seen that until this thread. Have you got a link to the comments ???

Don't get why we would out home fans in ateyo and away somewhere else

singing will be part of ateyo next year along with dolman a/b closest to away fans in the middle there are also a lot of people that sing in the south stand

[citybs3]

I don't see a problem here whilst City are a championship club. Make the atyeo what the eastend was recently, which for many games was half the stand for home support.

can't see anyone having a problem being moved for cup games, as long as we get ticket sale priority over members/general sale. would be a good chance to check out the new parts of the ground, which I intend doing next season in the south stand whenever possible.

[Cowshed]

Personally, I think it's good that the chairman of BS is happy to share such deliberations with fans in a face-to-face meeting like that. As this thread shows, it's not an easy decision to make and for Martin Griffiths to 'think out loud' with fans must surely be welcomed, as it gives everyone an opportunity to say their twopennorth before he has the unenviable task of making the final decision on where away fans / home singers should go from 2016/17 (which, I understand, has not yet been made).

The official line at the open days etc was that the away support would go in the Atyeo. Unless this new "think out loud" is shared with "everyone" fans do not have an opportunity to have an opinion. It is clear reading this thread many fans have no knowledge of Mr Griffiths idea.

[Offside]

I don't see a problem here whilst City are a championship club. Make the atyeo what the eastend was recently, which for many games was half the stand for home support.

can't see anyone having a problem being moved for cup games, as long as we get ticket sale priority over members/general sale. would be a good chance to check out the new parts of the ground, which I intend doing next season in the south stand whenever possible.

Yes, having both away fans and City fans in the Atyeo would probably make for a better atmosphere. I'd also like to be able to venture up to the top tier of the new Williams at some point too see what it's like.

[Three Lions]

;

Yes, having both away fans and City fans in the Atyeo would probably make for a better atmosphere.

Think the odds are better than a probably. If Leeds make aracket next season and the Atyeo and dolamn dont respond its not because city fans will not be able to hear them.While putting away fans up in the gods is a definitely will make atmosphere worse. The dolman got flatter when away fans moved to the EE.

[Kid in the Riot]

Interesting discussion.

 

I quite like the idea of away fans having upper and lower Williams, Atyeo end of the ground, if demand dictates.

[Ohbasso]

Interesting discussion.

 

I quite like the idea of away fans having upper and lower Williams, Atyeo end of the ground, if demand dictates.

Yeah I never thought of that as an option but I think it would work well and keep everyone happy, people that want to sit in the top teir will still be able to, we'd still have home fans behind both goals and away fans would still be close enough to interact with.

[Kid in the Riot]

Yeah I never thought of that as an option but I think it would work well and keep everyone happy, people that want to sit in the top teir will still be able to, we'd still have home fans behind both goals and away fans would still be close enough to interact with.

 

Yep. Could be a decent compromise.

[Puckle_red]

I see the Atyeo as a short term fix for one season only, then a move towards the Dolman. Away fans, I think, will be back where they were this season in the long run.

Sadly the club didn't want to create a home end at the Eastend of AG and that is the only reason people including myself are concerned about the 'Eastend type' in the future having no home at all or a compromised home, this is now inevitable.

[ChippenhamRed]

Interesting discussion.

I quite like the idea of away fans having upper and lower Williams, Atyeo end of the ground, if demand dictates.

I quite like that idea.A reasonable compromise. It would enable the concourse to be maintained all the way around the ground right up to the point where the away section begins as well.

My main reservation with the away fans going anywhere other than the Atyeo is the necessary reduction in capacity due to segregation.

[Kid in the Riot]

I quite like that idea.A reasonable compromise. It would enable the concourse to be maintained all the way around the ground right up to the point where the away section begins as well.

My main reservation with the away fans going anywhere other than the Atyeo is the necessary reduction in capacity due to segregation.

The club I'm sure will carefully consider your last para, as seats lost to segregation is money lost to them at the end of the day.

In this day and age, with trouble in grounds so rare I'm sure we could see segregation in AG down to an absolute minimum as seen in many other grounds these days.