Phileas Fogg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Once again PF, if it's already stated on purchasing a ticket that you may have to move for certain cup matches, it's not an issue as people would already know. Pricing would, I guess, have to reflect it so it is a delicate one for the powers that be. I get that - issue is its not really been precedent at AG often before, it wouldn't be a popular idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted May 14, 2015 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Fair enough BR. It's just the impression I've been given through talking to fellow City fans. Apologies if I'm being presumptious. It just seems a tad strange to me to build 3 adjoined stands and 1 isolated one and then reduce capacity by giving part of the adjoined stands to away supporters when there is a perfectly easy scenario staring people in the face with absolutely no capacity reduction. I just don't see the issue. Where do you see the capacity reduction coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted May 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I can't see why not as most other clubs do it with home supporters to accomodate larger away provision. We either lose capacity, make the whole 'concourse' idea totally redundant or use the Atyeo for away supporters. Once the Williams is open, I can't see the Atyeo being particularly popular anyway whereas the upper Williams would be as it's the best seat in the ground. Which ones, please? Fair enough BR. It's just the impression I've been given through talking to fellow City fans. Apologies if I'm being presumptious. It just seems a tad strange to me to build 3 adjoined stands and 1 isolated one and then reduce capacity by giving part of the adjoined stands to away supporters when there is a perfectly easy scenario staring people in the face with absolutely no capacity reduction. I just don't see the issue. The intention with the redeveloped ground will be to keep segregation, if needed, to an absolute minimum. They manage to police the North London derby, the Manchester derby with maybe 3-4 seats wide of segregation. That will no doubt be the aim if away fans are put in the Williams upper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I get that - issue is its not really been precedent at AG often before, it wouldn't be a popular idea! I've no doubt it wouldn't be particularly popular but I would imagine handing over part of the upper tier and the necessary segregation wouldn't be either. If it's publicised properly and priced right, I could see people being prepared to swallow that particular pill. IF it's priced right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohbasso Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Just out of interest are any of you guys saying no to away fans in the upper Williams saying this because you'd like to sit there? Because the club have already said that if away fans go in the Atyeo, the upper Williams will only be used as overflow like they do at Leeds so no season ticket holders will be able get tickets up the anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Where do you see the capacity reduction coming from? Segregation in an adjoined stand would surely mean a greater loss of seats than a non adjoined stand, particularly with home fans sat beneath them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 In theory yes that is simple, but people won't like it. Realistically how many times in a season will it happen? Might not even happen once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Which ones, please? As mentioned earlier KITR. Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Derby, Leicester, Saints, Forest etc etc ALL move home supporters for cup games due to the higher away provisions required. As do smaller clubs. Walsall, Chesterfield, Donny etc etc, they can all do it too. I'm not arguing, just making a point by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Just out of interest are any of you guys saying no to away fans in the upper Williams saying this because you'd like to sit there? Because the club have already said that if away fans go in the Atyeo, the upper Williams will only be used as overflow like they do at Leeds so no season ticket holders will be able get tickets up the anyway. I'm planning on going in the Williams lower but may not be able to if there are away fans above me Oh Basso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonboy Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Surely keeping half the Atyeo for away fans plus a proportion of the Williams upper for cup matches (if needed) is the long term solution. No temporary movement of home support and we get to charge away support premium prices in a great facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Realistically how many times in a season will it happen? Might not even happen once. That's true. Maybe not even once. It's the principle - The new AG is a chance to get these sort of things sorted so that it suits everyone - that's not an ideal solution. There's got to be a place for the vocal support to call home, they've been nomadic for a while now, even the EE didn't feel like a final resting place as we knew we'd be moving to AV or a new AG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 There's got to be a place for the vocal support to call home, they've been nomadic for a while now, even the EE didn't feel like a final resting place as we knew we'd be moving to AV or a new AG. Now, that, I totally agree with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Now, that, I totally agree with! I've never been an EE'r but I really feel they need a good place to call home. The rustic Atyeo ( in comparison to the rest) seems perfect to me. There are facilities to cater to all, and that group should have them too. Time to give them a proper end, all the most atmospheric stadia have that with a degree of freedom for vocal groups to do what they like - selhurst for example. The logistics of the away support is, I concede, tricky especially with issues around concourses etc. I think that giving home fans the entire end for themselves is the best solution for all as there isn't an obvious hitch-free perfect one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I've never been an EE'r but I really feel they need a good place to call home. The rustic Atyeo ( in comparison to the rest) seems perfect to me. There are facilities to cater to all, and that group should have them too. Time to give them a proper end, all the most atmospheric stadia have that with a degree of freedom for vocal groups to do what they like - selhurst for example. The logistics of the away support is, I concede, tricky especially with issues around concourses etc. I think that giving home fans the entire end for themselves is the best solution for all as there isn't an obvious hitch-free perfect one! Indeed. As has been shown by our little debate on here, there's no easy answer, particularly with the club statements about 'strictly no standing'. Hopefully, the club relax that stipulation somewhat meaning the EE'ers can eventually move to the South stand but it will take time. A good chat gents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 The dolman won't make for a good atmosphere, needs to be a proper end, not a compromise solution. During the more Casual orientated era the Dolman stand frequently could be described as very good. There will be no proper "ends" at Ashton Gate anymore. The Atyeo is a compromise already, and has no history of gathering those elements together that the Eastend, Dolman A-B, and for a short period the "dressers corn" of the Williams. Next season a significant proportion of those who have inhabited the Eastend from 2007 then later the Williams E/F will not be in the Atyeo. This topic should have been addressed during the full engagement process promised by Jon Lansdown. At the open day clubs officials were stating that the away fans would inhabit the Atyeo long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohbasso Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'm planning on going in the Williams lower but may not be able to if there are away fans above me Oh Basso. How come you won't be able to? Or do you mean that away fans being above you would put you off sitting there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Indeed. As has been shown by our little debate on here, there's no easy answer, particularly with the club statements about 'strictly no standing'. Hopefully, the club relax that stipulation somewhat meaning the EE'ers can eventually move to the South stand but it will take time. A good chat gents! thats not the club its a condition of the stand being given a saftey licence so a stand can be used the club just "overlook" it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 During the more Casual orientated era the Dolman stand frequently could be described as very good. There will be no proper "ends" at Ashton Gate anymore. The Atyeo is a compromise already, and has no history gathering those elements together that the Eastend, Dolman A-B and for a short period the "dressers corn" of the Williams. Next season a significant proportion would have inhabited the Eastend from 2007 then Williams E/F will not be in the Atyeo. This should have been addressed during the full engagement process promised by Jon Lansdown. At the open day clubs officials where stating that the away fans would inhabit the Atyeo long term. i thought it was address, the orginal plan was for the Eastenders being moved into the south stand, but this changed because they wanted to go into the atyeo where they could stand and have a unreserved policy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 i thought it was address, the orginal plan was for the Eastenders being moved into the south stand, but this changed because they wanted to go into the atyeo where they could stand and have a unreserved policy, You were mistaken. Your post will be a stranger to anybody who sincerely had the energy and time to attend consultations from 2013 - 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted May 14, 2015 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Segregation in an adjoined stand would surely mean a greater loss of seats than a non adjoined stand, particularly with home fans sat beneath them? If away fans were allocated the top tier of the West Stand, I don't envisage any segregation at all. It would be self-contained. There would only be a need for segregation netting and thus a loss of seats if you wanted to make that area part home and part away, just as there would if that was done in the Atyeo. If the whole of the Atyeo is home fans and the whole of the upper tier of the West Stand away fans, you lose no capacity at all (other than in the unlikely event of a match where we could sell out 100% of the Atyeo Stand, Dolman Stand, South Stand and West Stand Lower and the away attendance did not fill the top tier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 If away fans were allocated the top tier of the West Stand, I don't envisage any segregation at all. It would be self-contained. There would only be a need for segregation netting and thus a loss of seats if you wanted to make that area part home and part away, just as there would if that was done in the Atyeo. If the whole of the Atyeo is home fans and the whole of the upper tier of the West Stand away fans, you lose no capacity at all (other than in the unlikely event of a match where we could sell out 100% of the Atyeo Stand, Dolman Stand, South Stand and West Stand Lower and the away attendance did not fill the top tier). I disagree, seats will also be lost in the Williams lower I should think as we can't be sitting under away supporters (remember Forest and Wolves fans chucking all sorts down on us?). Giving our ONLY upper tier to away fans would cause problems as, I'm sure, many home fans would like to use it before away fans. The whole idea of not using the upper tier was, if my memory is correct, to keep stewarding costs down. By using the upper tier for away fans, we lose the eventual opportunity for those of us that would like to use it to do so, we pay extra for stewarding, potentially lose seats in both the upper and lower tier while a non adjoined stand lies potentially half full where away fans could be stationed easily. There would be no issue ref concourses, entrances, seclusion as and when needed. I'm sorry, Atyeo for the away fans all the way for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Just out of interest are any of you guys saying no to away fans in the upper Williams saying this because you'd like to sit there? Because the club have already said that if away fans go in the Atyeo, the upper Williams will only be used as overflow like they do at Leeds so no season ticket holders will be able get tickets up the anyway. I seem to recall us as fans discussing the possibility of the upper tier being closed until necessary, but I can't remember the club making any such statement (unless I missed it) - is there a link somewhere I can read up on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted May 14, 2015 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I disagree, seats will also be lost in the Williams lower I should think as we can't be sitting under away supporters (remember Forest and Wolves fans chucking all sorts down on us?). Giving our ONLY upper tier to away fans would cause problems as, I'm sure, many home fans would like to use it before away fans. The whole idea of not using the upper tier was, if my memory is correct, to keep stewarding costs down. By using the upper tier for away fans, we lose the eventual opportunity for those of us that would like to use it to do so, we pay extra for stewarding, potentially lose seats in both the upper and lower tier while a non adjoined stand lies potentially half full where away fans could be stationed easily. There would be no issue ref concourses, entrances, seclusion as and when needed. I'm sorry, Atyeo for the away fans all the way for me. Interesting points and just further underlines how difficult it is to find a solution that suits everyone. I guess I'm coming at it primarily from the angle ot wanting a vibrant, loud, colourful 'home end' behind one of the goals, and as the South Stand doesn't fit that bill - at least until rail seating is permited - that leaves the Atyeo. In turn that means looking for a home for the away fans and the only other self-contained area is the West Stand upper tier. But I agree, every option throws up its challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Not sure why some people are so dead set against moving season ticket holders for cup games- loads of clubs do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Interesting points and just further underlines how difficult it is to find a solution that suits everyone. I guess I'm coming at it primarily from the angle ot wanting a vibrant, loud, colourful 'home end' behind one of the goals, and as the South Stand doesn't fit that bill - at least until rail seating is permited - that leaves the Atyeo. In turn that means looking for a home for the away fans and the only other self-contained area is the West Stand upper tier. But I agree, every option throws up its challenges. Spot on BR. Whatever decision is made, someone will be put out by it. Rather them than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 you seem to hold a lot more information than others about this, How do you know it would be easy in the upper Williams (I haven't seen what the concourse of the Williams will be), what if the concourse is just the same continuous ring as per the rest of the stadium with no special concourse for the upper level? How do you know it would be easy to upgrade the facilities in the Atyeo - surely this would have been done already if it was easy?I know no more than the information that the club has made available. There are plans for bars & toilets on the upper Williams, as it's impractical for spectators sat at the at the very top to travel all the way to the bottom. They may not be to the same standard as the lower level, but that's not really a problem for away fans. All that's required is a simple partition between home and away fans, as used in the Atyeo. As for upgrading the Atyeo, it hasn't been done yet, but neither has the Dolman. The club's plan has always been to do the redevelopment in phased stages. The cost of upgrading the Atyeo would be small compared to the overall redevelopment cost. The real problem is the club didn't give sufficient consideration to where those who want to stand can go. Originally it was the South Stand but, at a fairly late stage, the club decided it didn't want them there. Because of this, no real consideration was originally given to upgrading the Atyeo, but there's still plenty of time to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Spot on BR. Whatever decision is made, someone will be put out by it. Rather them than me. Rather who than you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Rather who than you? BS or whoever has to make the final decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 BS or whoever has to make the final decision. Oh I get you now! Yes you're right, tough logistical choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 I disagree, seats will also be lost in the Williams lower I should think as we can't be sitting under away supporters (remember Forest and Wolves fans chucking all sorts down on us?). Giving our ONLY upper tier to away fans would cause problems as, I'm sure, many home fans would like to use it before away fans. The whole idea of not using the upper tier was, if my memory is correct, to keep stewarding costs down. By using the upper tier for away fans, we lose the eventual opportunity for those of us that would like to use it to do so, we pay extra for stewarding, potentially lose seats in both the upper and lower tier while a non adjoined stand lies potentially half full where away fans could be stationed easily. There would be no issue ref concourses, entrances, seclusion as and when needed. I'm sorry, Atyeo for the away fans all the way for me. Can't see that would be a problem at all these days CU, at the first sign of anybody chucking anything down the CCTV would have them and they'd be dealt with very swiftly. Not sure if CCTV was around in the Wolves/Forest days- or how bothered the stewards were to stop them - but they wouldn't get away with it at modern day AG. I didn't go to Newcastle a few years ago, were City fans chucking stuff at the Newcastle fans below them when we were up in the God's up there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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