Cider_boy Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I doubt anything Cotts said today would undermine the current players anywhere near as much as some of the stuff that's posted on here about some of them. I just hope they aren't daft enough to read it! We do need to strengthen, Cotts knows it, SL knows it, we know it, the players know it. We were lucky with injuries last season, it would be madness to think we can keep getting away with such a small squad. It is also clear that the recruitment hasn't gone to plan this summer, but of course Cotts will be doing all he can to get one or two more in, ideally as permanent signings, but failing that on loan. He is also good to see that he realises that Bristol is not a massive draw to the sort of players we want. It is a bit of a footballing backwater. But, if we can play attractive football with the squad we have, as we did last season, we may change some perceptions out there, and become a more desirable team to join. We seem to have played some good football so far, were unlucky with a red card which changed one match, and showed some naivety at this level being caught on the break. Hopefully we have learned from that and can now build on the boro result...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 No doubt the bosses of Lehman brothers, Northern Rock, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae etc said exactly the same. Laissez faire market systems always exhibit boom and bust without fail. A certain ex prime minister said that there would be 'no return to boom and bust' - look what happened to him. There's plenty of evidence of free market systems being stable for extremely long periods of time, so no, they don't always boom and bust. For that to happen some external pressure has to cause it. There's just no parallel whatsoever between banking and football. Football is not under any pressure to make money for shareholders and never has been. All clubs have to do is spend money playing football, it doesn't even matter if they win. It's not a real business and it's unique. Fans will always put more money into the game than they did the previous year. Some clubs will take inappropriate risks and fall hard but the game itself is not going to suffer a crash any time in the forseeable future because the conditions that could cause such a thing simply do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit the Frog Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champion Dung Spreader Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 There's plenty of evidence of free market systems being stable for extremely long periods of time, so no, they don't always boom and bust. For that to happen some external pressure has to cause it. A main reason why free market systems are unstable is overproduction, which is not an external pressure, it is an internal contradiction. History shows that boom and bust is inherent in free market capitalism. Yes they can be stable for long periods of time, however we're living in very turbulent times at the moment. There's just no parallel whatsoever between banking and football. Football is not under any pressure to make money for shareholders and never has been. All clubs have to do is spend money playing football, it doesn't even matter if they win. It's not a real business and it's unique. Many large football clubs are PLCs; there clearly are pressures to make money for shareholders. Pressure from above means that smaller, non PLC, clubs are subjected to the same pressures as the larger clubs. Fans will always put more money into the game than they did the previous year. Some clubs will take inappropriate risks and fall hard but the game itself is not going to suffer a crash any time in the forseeable future because the conditions that could cause such a thing simply do not exist. Football is a microcosm of society. When capitalism booms and busts, disposable income and asset values are affected; football is not immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfred Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Whilst I agree, many say Soton are the example to follow. Soton sacked Adkins very ruthlessly even when performing well as soon as they found someone who they believed would take them to the next level. I'm not being disingenuous but Cotts is only as good as the best available alternative if we want to get where we seem to. I believe he is still the best man but some may say he's pointing both barrels at his feet. My bigger fear in all cases is the board's competence in appointing the best available alternative. They got his appointment right but doubting their ability is not unreasonable. Every 1 in 5 managers they get right, according to recent history: Joe Jordan (right choice) Jimmy Lumsden Denis Smith Russell Osman Joe Jordan John Ward (right choice) Benny Lennartson Tony Pulis Danny Wilson Brian Tinnion Gary Johnson (right choice) Steve Coppell Keith Millen Derek McInnes Sean O'Driscoll Steve Cotterill (right choice) So if Cotterill does go, we've got another four managers to get through before we get it right again, even if we do adopt the Southampton/Adkins/Pochettino approach..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Every 1 in 5 managers they get right, according to recent history: Joe Jordan (right choice) Jimmy Lumsden Denis Smith Russell Osman Joe Jordan John Ward (right choice) Benny Lennartson Tony Pulis Danny Wilson Brian Tinnion Gary Johnson (right choice) Steve Coppell Keith Millen Derek McInnes Sean O'Driscoll Steve Cotterill (right choice) So if Cotterill does go, we've got another four managers to get through before we get it right again, even if we do adopt the Southampton/Adkins/Pochettino approach..... John Ward was hardly the right choice. The team he left over to Benny was not even properly trained. Pre season training had to start during the season. Players complaining they had to train twice a day as it would affect their golfing. Players throwing up at training having been out in the Brum nightlife. A drinking club.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Quite a few heads down AG should roll once this mess is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 A gap maybe but a hole? Correct BCS. Cotterill means a "massive financial gulf" not "a hole", but then you have to realise he doesn't speak English as well as you. He's from Gloucestershire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 To me it sounds like he's moaning more about the incoming players rather than the clubs policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Of course we are all entitled to our opinions - that is what a forum is about. This topic is staying pretty amicable too....long may it continue! At present, thus window has not gone as we expected, and probably SC,KB and SL expected either, but it ain't over yet. We probably expected our (over) thin squad to be fattened significantly by now, but it hasn't. The quietness turned quickly with Kodjia, under the radar. Wind us back a couple of weeks and remember the excitement of Fredericks....he just needs to settle. Add Robinson and Hamer, and I don't think it has been quite as bad as it appears. We've seen Little start to return to fitness, Reid and Burns look like they can play a part....so I can sort of understand why SC say he only wants to bring in players to improve the team. I think the best manager (open to debate) we've had in a long time deserves a bit of respect....and at least til the end of the window to finally judge the success of the window or not. We might not make another signing before Tursday and rely on a few emergency loans and challenge the play offs. It's not inconceivable. We could have 7 points ahead of the international break, which would be respectable. We might have four....but we won't be bottom 3. We need to focus a little more on results, not the size of our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'd give them Benny and (just) Danny Wilson too. With Benny I think they bottled it far too soon. Not saying he would, but I think he could have given us a really solid platform years ahead of the game. Whilst Danny Wilson let the players get away with blue murder the football was just about exciting enough and had the entertainment factor to overlook that in my opinion. Appreciate why others consider him wholly unsuccessful - and is agree - but I remember watching it fondly. Agree with those who say he left a toxic situation for any successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Every 1 in 5 managers they get right, according to recent history: Joe Jordan (right choice) Jimmy Lumsden Denis Smith Russell Osman Joe Jordan John Ward (right choice) Benny Lennartson Tony Pulis Danny Wilson Brian Tinnion Gary Johnson (right choice) Steve Coppell Keith Millen Derek McInnes Sean O'Driscoll Steve Cotterill (right choice) So if Cotterill does go, we've got another four managers to get through before we get it right again, even if we do adopt the Southampton/Adkins/Pochettino approach..... I would have called Danny Wilson the right choice. He did produce a very good team that just fluffed that play off final. The ridiculous thing about your list is that you can't know if someone is as you put it "the right choice". The are many other factors that can effect the success of a club. It isn't all down to the manager. For example, and I'll probably start people laughing in the aisles here, Derek McInnes I believe would have been successful had he not been stuck with a lot of players he didn't want on long contracts and also tasked with drastically cutting the wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'd agree with McInnes too if he was given the time, but that's a red flag for a thread derail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfred Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I would have called Danny Wilson the right choice. He did produce a very good team that just fluffed that play off final. The ridiculous thing about your list is that you can't know if someone is as you put it "the right choice". The are many other factors that can effect the success of a club. It isn't all down to the manager. For example, and I'll probably start people laughing in the aisles here, Derek McInnes I believe would have been successful had he not been stuck with a lot of players he didn't want on long contracts and also tasked with drastically cutting the wage bill. Right choice simply means that manager achieved a promotion, which is essentially the remit of every manager we have. I would agree that every other manager had some kind of positive impact (even Benny), but they all left or were sacked having failed in that task. I agree about McInnes to a certain extent. Wrong place wrong time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Right choice simply means that manager achieved a promotion, which is essentially the remit of every manager we have. At the time I would've agreed, and I'm sure all involved in the club (and the majority of fans) would agree with you now. However I'm a bit scarred from the way we were in the years up to relegation until SC that entertainment is my number one objective. I wouldn't trade places with the Tony Pulis Stoke for example. Bugger paying all that money to watch such crap football even if it grinds out results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Correct BCS. Cotterill means a "massive financial gulf" not "a hole", but then you have to realise he doesn't speak English as well as you. He's from Gloucestershire. Being a 'shire boy this shouldn't make me laugh, but it did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I doubt anything Cotts said today would undermine the current players anywhere near as much as some of the stuff that's posted on here about some of them. I just hope they aren't daft enough to read it! We do need to strengthen, Cotts knows it, SL knows it, we know it, the players know it. We were lucky with injuries last season, it would be madness to think we can keep getting away with such a small squad. It is also clear that the recruitment hasn't gone to plan this summer, but of course Cotts will be doing all he can to get one or two more in, ideally as permanent signings, but failing that on loan. He is also good to see that he realises that Bristol is not a massive draw to the sort of players we want. It is a bit of a footballing backwater. But, if we can play attractive football with the squad we have, as we did last season, we may change some perceptions out there, and become a more desirable team to join. We seem to have played some good football so far, were unlucky with a red card which changed one match, and showed some naivety at this level being caught on the break. Hopefully we have learned from that and can now build on the boro result...! My concern is that in spite of Cotts and SL apparently knowing we need to strengthen, they knew it at the end of last season and to date it has not happened sufficiently to build a squad to cope with this division. And what makes you think that situation will change.We seem to just be watching from the sidelines as other rival clubs get on with signing players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'd give them Benny and (just) Danny Wilson too. With Benny I think they bottled it far too soon. Not saying he would, but I think he could have given us a really solid platform years ahead of the game. Whilst Danny Wilson let the players get away with blue murder the football was just about exciting enough and had the entertainment factor to overlook that in my opinion. Appreciate why others consider him wholly unsuccessful - and is agree - but I remember watching it fondly. Agree with those who say he left a toxic situation for any successor. Benny wasn't brought in as a manger though AR...he was brought in as a coach to help Ward...who then bottled it and walked off and left Benny and the Club in the shit. As for this SC mullarky...it's all starting to come to a head....surprised it's taken this long tbh....some interesting times coming soon...and can guarantee he'll come out soon and say how thankful he is for SL's backing, like he's done before when they've had a banging of skulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Benny wasn't brought in as a manger though AR...he was brought in as a coach to help Ward...who then bottled it and walked off and left Benny and the Club in the shit. As for this SC mullarky...it's all starting to come to a head....surprised it's taken this long tbh....some interesting times coming soon...and can guarantee he'll come out soon and say how thankful he is for SL's backing, like he's done before when they've had a banging of skulls. THF - not quite accurate Spudski I'm not now but I was ITK / close to goings on at AG at that time. For what it's worth - Ward was concerned by his lack of Championship Experience. He went to the board and explained this and said he wanted some experienced help and specifically wanted the late Ray Harford to come in as an advisor / director of football to help him. The Board were concerned that he didn't feel up to / confident about the job and decided that if they were going to have to get a new man in there was no place for JW and they may as well replace him and Ward had the hump that they didn't get Ray Harford in. Basically his visit and request to the board backfired on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Danny wilsons team played some of the bst football I've seen at the gate. He was the right man, but ultimately built his own gallows with his team selection for one crucial match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Of course we are all entitled to our opinions - that is what a forum is about. This topic is staying pretty amicable too....long may it continue! At present, thus window has not gone as we expected, and probably SC,KB and SL expected either, but it ain't over yet. We probably expected our (over) thin squad to be fattened significantly by now, but it hasn't. The quietness turned quickly with Kodjia, under the radar. Wind us back a couple of weeks and remember the excitement of Fredericks....he just needs to settle. Add Robinson and Hamer, and I don't think it has been quite as bad as it appears. We've seen Little start to return to fitness, Reid and Burns look like they can play a part....so I can sort of understand why SC say he only wants to bring in players to improve the team. I think the best manager (open to debate) we've had in a long time deserves a bit of respect....and at least til the end of the window to finally judge the success of the window or not. We might not make another signing before Tursday and rely on a few emergency loans and challenge the play offs. It's not inconceivable. We could have 7 points ahead of the international break, which would be respectable. We might have four....but we won't be bottom 3. We need to focus a little more on results, not the size of our squad. Good post. I think one thing would help is if we heard from someone other than SC. Perhaps if Burt or SL were giving their views we could understand better how things were/weren't going tramsfer-wise. Assuming everyone was saying the same sort of thing, all the conspiracy stuff would go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 The core players in our team know they are good players, but they also know they need help at this level, so will hope as much as any fan that the club can bring in quality additions. They also know they certainly are not 'playing for peanuts', they all got bonuses for promotion and hefty wage increases on the back of the manager forging them into a successful team. That doesn't mean they'll be on as much as proven PL signings, something they will no doubt understand. As for Cotterill 'shutting up about finances' and their affect on signings, it's what the fans are talking about and it's been a focus of the the media for weeks, so it would perhaps be strange if he didn't try to explain the situation from his point of view. A very considered post Nogs, if i may say so, and one in which I tend largely to agree. I would just add that the current squad know that it is in their interests we have players that can help push us to promotion for they all will benefit. If Steve C has to pay new incomings a higher salary than many or give them a signing bonus then i think all at the club will understand and know it is what we are dealing with. Perhaps Steve L had perhaps not fully grasped that or perhaps left this process too much in the hands of others... Both of which i actually find hard to believe. I still prefer the line that you say Nogs.. And perhaps others, that the comments are for us fans and indeed the press... Privately i think they are going about their business in a professional manner and these comments, moreover, might put us again behind the curve ball. Letting everbody think we are relegation fodder suits us fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten minutes of rough Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Not really bothered to read every line of this, but really what a load of BS again we are treated to by the spin machine that is BS Sport, is that Bull Sh1t? We are currently undertaking a multi million pound spend revamping the stadium, and have a very very wealthy owner at the helm, and yet we have to deal with the Championship with a stripped down squad and bemoan the high cost of getting quality players in that would see us survive at the very least or perhaps see us in the Prem. I dont like the mood music coming out of the club when it comes to our budget or aspirations to getting in a viable squad, looks like the players we have targeted and turned us down seem to think we are cheapskates, and not willing to put up, it is imperative we strengthen, we have all said this and know this to be true, and yet the clock is ticking, and the window will be shut soon, and now this announcement I guess that is aimed to let us down slowly. Hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten minutes of rough Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Correct BCS. Cotterill means a "massive financial gulf" not "a hole", but then you have to realise he doesn't speak English as well as you. He's from Gloucestershire. He's from Cheltenham, so rather unfair to use the generic term Gloucestershire which includes Severn side and the Forest of Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 THF - not quite accurate Spudski I'm not now but I was ITK / close to goings on at AG at that time. For what it's worth - Ward was concerned by his lack of Championship Experience. He went to the board and explained this and said he wanted some experienced help and specifically wanted the late Ray Harford to come in as an advisor / director of football to help him. The Board were concerned that he didn't feel up to / confident about the job and decided that if they were going to have to get a new man in there was no place for JW and they may as well replace him and Ward had the hump that they didn't get Ray Harford in. Basically his visit and request to the board backfired on him. Yes....I remember the Ray Harford Saga saga well BBSB....Ward was totally out of his depth back then...as were some of the players in our Midfield. Poor old Benny got really dumped on...loved that season though....back to the walls stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Of course we are all entitled to our opinions - that is what a forum is about. This topic is staying pretty amicable too....long may it continue! At present, thus window has not gone as we expected, and probably SC,KB and SL expected either, but it ain't over yet. We probably expected our (over) thin squad to be fattened significantly by now, but it hasn't. The quietness turned quickly with Kodjia, under the radar. Wind us back a couple of weeks and remember the excitement of Fredericks....he just needs to settle. Add Robinson and Hamer, and I don't think it has been quite as bad as it appears. We've seen Little start to return to fitness, Reid and Burns look like they can play a part....so I can sort of understand why SC say he only wants to bring in players to improve the team. I think the best manager (open to debate) we've had in a long time deserves a bit of respect....and at least til the end of the window to finally judge the success of the window or not. We might not make another signing before Tursday and rely on a few emergency loans and challenge the play offs. It's not inconceivable. We could have 7 points ahead of the international break, which would be respectable. We might have four....but we won't be bottom 3. We need to focus a little more on results, not the size of our squad. It's not about giving him respect, he would admit the window hasn't gone well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I think he is simply trying to explain why he hasn't made more signings. The overall strategy this summer seems to have been the same as last years plan of getting quality over quantity - ideally making 4/5 quality signings. The reality is we cant afford or attract top end championship quality at this point as no one outside the club thinks we will get promoted and why as a player would you waist a year at Bristol City not being promoted when you could be somewhere like Hull, Burnley or QPR with a much higher perceived chance of getting to the Prem. This must have been fairly obvious once the Gayle/Gray situation unfolded, unfortunately we didn't seem to want to have a plan B, the attitude seems to be we are only going to sign players that are better than what we have, if the player was not better than what we have then they were not on the radar - regardless of requiring a backup or not. While i'm aware we crave Championship experience I think 2 experienced players might have been enough supplemented by 3 best of league 1 players that were hungry to make the step up. All is well and good in hindsight though but I wonder if they did any lessons learned sessions post Gayle/Gray to reassess where they were to try and figure out what could be done with future targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Every 1 in 5 managers they get right, according to recent history: Joe Jordan (right choice) Jimmy Lumsden Didn't want the job , should have stuck to his guns and not taken it. Denis Smith I really enjoyed the Smith time, great entertainment Russell Osman ****! Joe Jordan Loved Joe , but not a fan of going back. John Ward (right choice) Quote in the paper saying he didn't know what to try next virtually signed his death warrent. Benny Lennartson Wrong time , right man? Could have been good with the young players and brought some good ones in. Tony Pulis THE WORST POSSIBLE APPOINTMENT. Well at that time at least. Wasn't that shortly before he tried to clear all the foreign players out of Stoke? Danny Wilson Did well , but that Brighton game Brian Tinnion Wrong man wrong time, was never going to end well. Gary Johnson (right choice) Yep Steve Coppell Who knew he was a fruit loop, even then he had previous Keith Millen Easy option Derek McInnes Hard job for anyone, understand the appointment Sean O'Driscoll ???? Steve Cotterill (right choice) So if Cotterill does go, we've got another four managers to get through before we get it right again, even if we do adopt the Southampton/Adkins/Pochettino approach..... John Ward was hardly the right choice. The team he left over to Benny was not even properly trained. Pre season training had to start during the season. Players complaining they had to train twice a day as it would affect their golfing. Players throwing up at training having been out in the Brum nightlife. A drinking club.. Cock up all around. Yes....I remember the Ray Harford Saga saga well BBSB....Ward was totally out of his depth back then...as were some of the players in our Midfield. Poor old Benny got really dumped on...loved that season though....back to the walls stuff. Loved ?? I seem to remember back to back games watching us ship 11 goals, not my idea of love fella. With any appointment it's down to luck,timing and a little talent. Last year we had all 3 in one go. SC whinging is a little grating but I hope he is trying to sow the seeds with players that we are not a cash cow to be milked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.