JET

[BCFC Jordan]

His attitude surely had a hell of an effect on his application to a fitness regime that made him virtually unavailable until December last season.

Have you any evidence for this? The reason he suddenly regained fitness at that stage was because SC finally started playing him in the starting eleven. That's how you get match fitness.

[exAtyeoMax]

Have you any evidence for this? The reason he suddenly regained fitness at that stage was because SC finally started playing him in the starting eleven. That's how you get match fitness.

I'm sure it has been mentioned many times that he was unfit at the beginning of the season. 

[Frenchay Red]

He has proven nothing at championship level.

Well he hasn't had a chance this time round. I think he was a good fit for us, and when selected had something of a free role, which got the best out of him. But on too much money and was never going to stay. Pity, but water under the bridge etc.

[alexukhc]

Give the lad a chance FFS

[BCFC Jordan]

I'm sure it has been mentioned many times that he was unfit at the beginning of the season. 

Yes, I know. However he wasn't exactly going to improve his match fitness when he was only playing about ten minutes or less every week.

 

[exAtyeoMax]

 

Yes, I know. However he wasn't exactly going to improve his match fitness when he was only playing about ten minutes or less every week.

 

I think he had to gain basic fitness before match fitness.

[Guest]

His attitude surely had a hell of an effect on his application to a fitness regime that made him virtually unavailable until December last season. Great player, with the ability to take your breath away in very short spurts. Not the sort of player to get us out of the championship, where he has previously failed. Whether he wanted to stay or not, leaving was the best option for both parties.

Last time JET was in the Championship he was 22!!!!

Good enough old enough etc yeah I am a total believer, but you don't get the very best of someone at age 22.

To ram home the point surely we only need to point at our very own Bobby Reid, who similarly is now 22 and starting to show his true promise. At 21 he wasn't even a League Two player....

 

[Ashtonboy]

Have you any evidence for this? The reason he suddenly regained fitness at that stage was because SC finally started playing him in the starting eleven. That's how you get match fitness.

He has followed the same routine in every club that has employed him. His application is that of a Sunday pub team footballer. Brilliant but totally wasted. The worshippers will never see past the limited impacts he has, when given a chance in the first team. However, he has historically eventually lost his place due to his own shortcomings in application. Spudski probably got it right when he said that he probably has far more interest in things outside of football. His "job" just allows him to follow his other interests.

[RedM]

Why would he come back on loan? He rarely got a game when he was here last season, he would have to move away from his beloved London and mates again, and he just doesn't need to. His has his contract at QPR and nothing to prove.

[Ashtonboy]

Last time JET was in the Championship he was 22!!!!

Good enough old enough etc yeah I am a total believer, but you don't get the very best of someone at age 22.

To ram home the point surely we only need to point at our very own Bobby Reid, who similarly is now 22 and starting to show his true promise. At 21 he wasn't even a League Two player....

 

Lets see how many games he gets at QPR (which looks to be very average). Not every manager can be wrong about him.

[Guest]

He has followed the same routine in every club that has employed him. His application is that of a Sunday pub team footballer. Brilliant but totally wasted. The worshippers will never see past the limited impacts he has, when given a chance in the first team. However, he has historically eventually lost his place due to his own shortcomings in application. Spudski probably got it right when he said that he probably has far more interest in things outside of football. His "job" just allows him to follow his other interests.

21 goals in his first season, 3rd most prolific strike partnership in England that year and only 5 short of his partner and a 1 in 3 appearances* (not starts) record for us across all competitions....

I agree also that Spud probably has it nailed. However I would also add that whilst I agree he could probably apply more and achieve much more with his career, some people are just not ambitious and are quite happy with their lot. I don't think there's much wrong with that attitude. If he wants to be able to be involved both music and football, even though it might limit what he can achieve as a footballer, well good on him for making the decision that makes him happiest. Not everyone lives for their vocation, and I don't think we can blame them if that is the case. He may simply just be doing what he does best, rather than a labour of love like we all seem to expect.  

[Ashtonboy]

 

Totally agree with you. Hope he finds that balance, that he would never achieve under Cotts

 

 

[Guest]

Lets see how many games he gets at QPR (which looks to be very average). Not every manager can be wrong about him.

Sorry, but I don't really place that much/any reliance on anything that happens from that basket case club. He could never play a game again for QPR and I wouldn't see that as indicative of much.

[Donkeeebles]

My last word on the JET issue.

As long as we have myopic supporters (not just City) who can't see past the headless chicken approach and, much more importantly, if we have professional people in the game who can't see further than work rate and application, we will never win anything at national level. We are light years behind more enlightened countries both as supporters and the professionals in the game. Its improved since the 70's and 80's when we struggled to reach the final of tournaments, but we are embarrassed once we get to the finals.

The amount of times I've seen our "international" players slide in to a tackle when not necessary and see the crowd applaud the players "application" is staggering - brain dead both at player and supporter level. 

This country will never accept players like Trundle and JET, it never has done.

The saying "work smart not hard" can be equally applied to football - but thats alien to the British, as a nation we are pretty dumb in that respect.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[BS4 on Tour...]

Last time JET was in the Championship he was 22!!!!

Good enough old enough etc yeah I am a total believer, but you don't get the very best of someone at age 22.

To ram home the point surely we only need to point at our very own Bobby Reid, who similarly is now 22 and starting to show his true promise. At 21 he wasn't even a League Two player....

 

Have a look at Gary Lineker's and Michael Owen's records by the time they got to 22 ( at the top level), you certainly can get the best from a player at that age...

[Bs4Red]

His attitude has never been in question, its always been spot on.

His application may leave a bit to be desired but that is common with a lot of gifted footballers like him and its no good trying to harness players like that and shoe horn them into being something they are not - Trundle was a perfect example of that under GJ. A total waste of his talent being at BCFC.

I'd have JET back 100%, it was a shame he left and a shame people (both supporters and those in the game) are still stuck with the British mentality of how football should be played. We'll never win anything with that mentality.

 

I certainly don't have the British mentality. As a UEFA licenced coach the one thing I hate is the British viewpoint of football but I am also realistic about the team city have and that a player like JET and Trundle as you say have never fitted in. If you were to have him and build your team around such a player he would be a revelation but in the team we have he just doesn't fit. His talent and skill he possesses is unquestionable but his attitude towards applying himself doesn't match his talent.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

I'd sell my house to bring jet back.

that Gas goal will go down in legend 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Anyway we can get him on a flag? 

[spudski]

I certainly don't have the British mentality. As a UEFA licenced coach the one thing I hate is the British viewpoint of football but I am also realistic about the team city have and that a player like JET and Trundle as you say have never fitted in. If you were to have him and build your team around such a player he would be a revelation but in the team we have he just doesn't fit. His talent and skill he possesses is unquestionable but his attitude towards applying himself doesn't match his talent.

SoD built the team around JET...that's why he scored so many. When SC took over, it changed, and JET scored very few and was less effective. So I can see what you're saying.

As for not applying himself...I'm really not so sure. As has been said by a few managers...he's a massive unit to get around a pitch for 90 mins.

Some players can have all the skill but not necessarily the fitness levels to compete at a high level. I put Trundle, Doc, Noble and JET in that category. How frustrating as a player, if you know whatever you do to get fit, your body won't allow you to get to that higher level. It's no wonder a few get dejected and seem less motivated.

Unfortunately now, football has to have a mix of both skill, application and fitness at a high level throughout the team to succeed.

The day's of Jackie, Worthington and Le tissier have gone.

As for this Country...some coaches and players need to change their mind set and move with the times. Otherwise you get left behind.

As you will know....Players abroad work more on technique, and are very repetitive in training...they do it so it becomes second nature. That then allows you more time on the ball, and with that time, it allows you to express your skills, within the structure. Players know this...Coach's know this....it's boring, but they know they need to do it, to be successful.

As an example....there was an English Club that had a fantastic Spanish coach working for them in their development system.

He used the above type of training with discipline....as he knew, that's what works. The players and some other coach's didn't like this change, discipline and methods....they didn't like being told....they didn't like change, they didn't like trying new things. They found the repetition boring....this eventually led to unrest, complaints etc,etc,etc....this led to the Coach eventually being let go.... That 'mentality' needs to stop.

[AshtonGreat]

My last word on the JET issue.

As long as we have myopic supporters (not just City) who can't see past the headless chicken approach and, much more importantly, if we have professional people in the game who can't see further than work rate and application, we will never win anything at national level. We are light years behind more enlightened countries both as supporters and the professionals in the game. Its improved since the 70's and 80's when we struggled to reach the final of tournaments, but we are embarrassed once we get to the finals.

The amount of times I've seen our "international" players slide in to a tackle when not necessary and see the crowd applaud the players "application" is staggering - brain dead both at player and supporter level. 

This country will never accept players like Trundle and JET, it never has done.

The saying "work smart not hard" can be equally applied to football - but thats alien to the British, as a nation we are pretty dumb in that respect.

Sorry but I disagree with this. Of course you need technical ability, but you definitely need work rate and application too. Spain and Germany have been so successful recently because they combined the two. The days of trotting around the field waiting to play the Hollywood pass, a la Socrates and Zico, are long gone. And even when those players were at their prime, they came unstuck in the 1982 World Cup for the very reason that they came up against an Italian team built on work rate and application (not to mention skill). Most, if not all, of the world's top players have a work rate that matches their flair. Those that don't often end up falling by the wayside, like JET and Trundle.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

SoD built the team around JET...that's why he scored so many. When SC took over, it changed, and JET scored very few and was less effective. So I can see what you're saying.

As for not applying himself...I'm really not so sure. As has been said by a few managers...he's a massive unit to get around a pitch for 90 mins.

Some players can have all the skill but not necessarily the fitness levels to compete at a high level. I put Trundle, Doc, Noble and JET in that category. How frustrating as a player, if you know whatever you do to get fit, your body won't allow you to get to that higher level. It's no wonder a few get dejected and seem less motivated.

Unfortunately now, football has to have a mix of both skill, application and fitness at a high level throughout the team to succeed.

The day's of Jackie, Worthington and Le tissier have gone.

As for this Country...some coaches and players need to change their mind set and move with the times. Otherwise you get left behind.

As you will know....Players abroad work more on technique, and are very repetitive in training...they do it so it becomes second nature. That then allows you more time on the ball, and with that time, it allows you to express your skills, within the structure. Players know this...Coach's know this....it's boring, but they know they need to do it, to be successful.

As an example....there was an English Club that had a fantastic Spanish coach working for them in their development system.

He used the above type of training with discipline....as he knew, that's what works. The players and some other coach's didn't like this change, discipline and methods....they didn't like being told....they didn't like change, they didn't like trying new things. They found the repetition boring....this eventually led to unrest, complaints etc,etc,etc....this led to the Coach eventually being let go.... That 'mentality' needs to stop.

i'm sorry but that reads like the old military parade joke the mother who says "oooh look my son is the only soldier that is in step".

Surely keeping somebody who is as unpopular as you describe would be toxic for 'the' club you describe?.

[spudski]

i'm sorry but that reads like the old military parade joke the mother who says "oooh look my son is the only soldier that is in step".

Surely keeping somebody who is as unpopular as you describe would be toxic for 'the' club you describe?.

I suppose it depends on which way you look at it.

The coach was brought in, because he was deemed good at what he did, and was able to bring about the change and mentality that was considered needed at the Club.

As players, parents and fellow coach's....you either except that change is needed, and go with it...or think you know better and kick up a stink, because it is not what you are used to and you don't like it. It may become 'toxic'....but who is the loser here....the Club of course....as they will carry on in their own sweet comfortable way...with a ' this is how we've always done it attitude'....and continue to stagnate and not improve. Blinkered to say the least.

[Bs4Red]

SoD built the team around JET...that's why he scored so many. When SC took over, it changed, and JET scored very few and was less effective. So I can see what you're saying.

As for not applying himself...I'm really not so sure. As has been said by a few managers...he's a massive unit to get around a pitch for 90 mins.

Some players can have all the skill but not necessarily the fitness levels to compete at a high level. I put Trundle, Doc, Noble and JET in that category. How frustrating as a player, if you know whatever you do to get fit, your body won't allow you to get to that higher level. It's no wonder a few get dejected and seem less motivated.

Unfortunately now, football has to have a mix of both skill, application and fitness at a high level throughout the team to succeed.

The day's of Jackie, Worthington and Le tissier have gone.

As for this Country...some coaches and players need to change their mind set and move with the times. Otherwise you get left behind.

As you will know....Players abroad work more on technique, and are very repetitive in training...they do it so it becomes second nature. That then allows you more time on the ball, and with that time, it allows you to express your skills, within the structure. Players know this...Coach's know this....it's boring, but they know they need to do it, to be successful.

As an example....there was an English Club that had a fantastic Spanish coach working for them in their development system.

He used the above type of training with discipline....as he knew, that's what works. The players and some other coach's didn't like this change, discipline and methods....they didn't like being told....they didn't like change, they didn't like trying new things. They found the repetition boring....this eventually led to unrest, complaints etc,etc,etc....this led to the Coach eventually being let go.... That 'mentality' needs to stop.

Could agree more, the Spanish and Germans train until they could do things in their sleep. I also remember a quote from Xavi after player Liverpool in which he said about when Liverpool cleared the ball out, the fans roared like a goal but if you did that in the Nou Camp, the crowd would boo.

 

the plight of our national team shows how far behind we are. Our football and tempo is slow and to be honest extremely boring. It doesn't have to Change at the elite level. The change must come at grassroots, the coaches must be shown a different way from an early stage of their careers 

[spudski]

Could agree more, the Spanish and Germans train until they could do things in their sleep. I also remember a quote from Xavi after player Liverpool in which he said about when Liverpool cleared the ball out, the fans roared like a goal but if you did that in the Nou Camp, the crowd would boo.

 

the plight of our national team shows how far behind we are. Our football and tempo is slow and to be honest extremely boring. It doesn't have to Change at the elite level. The change must come at grassroots, the coaches must be shown a different way from an early stage of their careers 

You are quiet correct...it is totally a mind set. We are still very much all blood and bluster. Fans cheering corners, sliding tackles, hoofed clearances goes to show how far behind that mind set is. Like you say...Spanish fans in particular will boo if a player misses the target or shows poor technical ability.

I remember reading a quote by Ibrahimavich, where he remembered looking down at an English player, who had to keep making a last ditch sliding tackles and feeling sorry for him.

Basically saying that the English players understanding of the game, positioning, reading and lack of technique had led him to have to make these last ditch efforts....yet supporters were applauding it.

[Bs4Red]

You are quiet correct...it is totally a mind set. We are still very much all blood and bluster. Fans cheering corners, sliding tackles, hoofed clearances goes to show how far behind that mind set is. Like you say...Spanish fans in particular will boo if a player misses the target or shows poor technical ability.

I remember reading a quote by Ibrahimavich, where he remembered looking down at an English player, who had to keep making a last ditch sliding tackles and feeling sorry for him.

Basically saying that the English players understanding of the game, positioning, reading and lack of technique had led him to have to make these last ditch efforts....yet supporters were applauding it.

Leading back into the tread, if someone like JET was to play in Spain, he would fit in so well, he has bundles of skill and technique. You watch Barca for example sometimes when they attack it's at a canter, walking pace but they rip through teams with knowledge of the game and being clever. (Not suggesting JET should go to Barca) They don't need a battering ram up front to bruise players or bully them. Granted it helps when you have talent like they do. I feel for JET and he was good for the club but as I've said before. Every team has a style and way of playing and unfortunately JET didn't fit ours. Would he have fit this year? No. 

For that reason I believe it was a good decision to sell him. Opened up around 10/15k worth of wages and gave the bloke a chance to move on.

[Guest]

We are still very much all blood and bluster. Fans cheering corners, sliding tackles, hoofed clearances goes to show how far behind that mind set is. Like you say...Spanish fans in particular will boo if a player misses the target or shows poor technical ability.

I remember reading a quote by Ibrahimavich, where he remembered looking down at an English player, who had to keep making a last ditch sliding tackles and feeling sorry for him.

Basically saying that the English players understanding of the game, positioning, reading and lack of technique had led him to have to make these last ditch efforts....yet supporters were applauding it.

Whilst I don't disagree with anything you've written there I must admit I'm still a little nonchalant. I will readily admit from the off that I'd given up on English international football as I find the whole thing a total bore - perhaps that partly explains why my attitude is 'agree, but not sure I care enough'.

For me I go to football first and foremost for entertainment. I'm sure many others do too - ignoring who was in charge I know I wouldn't have swapped championship football for premier league football of the type that Stoke were initially playing for instance.

I find our domestic game, in my opinion, the most entertaining albeit very closely followed by German domestic football. I'm still going to cheer blood and bluster, I'm still going to applaud a last ditch challenge and I still want to see all of the above... because (rightly or wrongly) that's what lifts me out of my seat and it's what stirs my emotions. If to Ibrahimovic or Xavi that is odd well I don't really care. If anything what I find much more strange is that they find it perverse to applaud the rectification of a mistake, which a last ditch challenge is for example.

If a consequence of entertainment is sacrificing techinique and ability then for me it's a worthy sacrifice and so that's why I'm still a bit non fussed. I will probably stand out like a sore thumb but the last thing I want to see is the patient, precise probing that is the flavour for now. German football I don't think has fallen too far into this trap, hence why I still find it entertaining.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I suppose it depends on which way you look at it.

The coach was brought in, because he was deemed good at what he did, and was able to bring about the change and mentality that was considered needed at the Club.

As players, parents and fellow coach's....you either except that change is needed, and go with it...or think you know better and kick up a stink, because it is not what you are used to and you don't like it. It may become 'toxic'....but who is the loser here....the Club of course....as they will carry on in their own sweet comfortable way...with a ' this is how we've always done it attitude'....and continue to stagnate and not improve. Blinkered to say the least.

The club would be an even bigger loser if they did not address a situation where a coach and a state of affairs that you describe is so unpopular that barely anybody (especially his players) feel like they are able to work with him and have no respect for him, that is not blinkered, if you have a situation where a majority of people all have the same criticism of that one person then there has to be a problem, so do you keep the problem and tell the majority if you don't like it you know what you can do? or rid yourself of the problem and have a cancer spread throughout the club?.

Basically it's called losing the dressing room.

 

[spudski]

Leading back into the tread, if someone like JET was to play in Spain, he would fit in so well, he has bundles of skill and technique. You watch Barca for example sometimes when they attack it's at a canter, walking pace but they rip through teams with knowledge of the game and being clever. (Not suggesting JET should go to Barca) They don't need a battering ram up front to bruise players or bully them. Granted it helps when you have talent like they do. I feel for JET and he was good for the club but as I've said before. Every team has a style and way of playing and unfortunately JET didn't fit ours. Would he have fit this year? No. 

For that reason I believe it was a good decision to sell him. Opened up around 10/15k worth of wages and gave the bloke a chance to move on.

Without wishing to be pedantic...we didn't sell him. But other than agree :-)

[spudski]

The club would be an even bigger loser if they did not address a situation where a coach and a state of affairs that you describe is so unpopular that barely anybody (especially his players) feel like they are able to work with him and have no respect for him, that is not blinkered, if you have a situation where a majority of people all have the same criticism of that one person then there has to be a problem, so do you keep the problem and tell the majority if you don't like it you know what you can do? or rid yourself of the problem and have a cancer spread throughout the club?.

He was brought in to cure the cancer...'they' refused the treatment...so the cancer will keep festering.

[Beni71]

On a slightly different thread, how do QPR continue to survive? They Hoover up players, their net debt is large. Surely must be close to breaching financial fair play rules?