To stick or to twist?

[The Journalist]

First up, let me pop my cards on the table. From everything I've watched, heard and read, before he arrived and since, I've never particularly liked Steve Cotterill. He's just not really my kind of bloke.

I don't like his smugness in victory, and even less so his excuses in defeat. I don't always like how he represents our club in the media, and subsequently I don't like that fans of other clubs don't like him. I don't even particularly like his spiky hair, nor the gold chain around his neck.

I've just never really warmed to Cotterill the man. I've tried, but I just haven't.

 

Is all of this important? The easy answer, of course, is 'not when we're winning'. But now we're losing? A bit of a dilemma, I'll concede.

 

To twist

 

After a truly unforgettable 2014-15, it goes without saying that it's since been a really tough six months; the first couple of those underpinned by a hopeless summer in the transfer market, and more recently by too many disappointing performances on the grass - and an even greater number of disappointing results.

 

Set against the backdrop of a redeveloped stadium and an apparently brighter future, it's all a bit of a nightmare. The question of how we'll fill a 27,000-seater stadium in League One is becoming a tired one, because the answer is so obvious.

 

So as we continue to hover around the relegation zone - the stats are well documented, with less points than games played and only three wins to speak of all season - the answer to the question of how we solve the problem also seems fairly obvious, right?

 

We're talking about a man whose personality has never really quite fitted in with the identity I want for our club, who seems to be sticking with certain players and systems week in, week out whatever the weather and whose record is actually pretty indifferent at this level either way. "Thanks for everything Steve", but "Times up Cotts". Right?

 

To stick

 

Before I continue, I probably need to put some more cards on the table. I'm an exiled fan who has seen us live only four times this season. I realise I'm probably feeling the full weight of those recent performances and results less than many of you, forking out hundreds of pounds - and hours - to watch us play every week. Does that make my opinion any less qualified? It may well do - and I accept that.

 

But, having said all of the above, something isn't sitting comfortably with me.

 

Alongside Keith Burt, Cotterill's recruitment strategy in the summer of 2014 was arguably the best in the club's history - and arguably provided us with the most successful season in the club's history. His signings were immaculate, as were, on the whole, his tactics, the teams he picked and the performances they produced.

 

Having taken over a team 23rd in League One and well used to losing, he went on to win 49 of his next 88 games in charge. Even now, 20 shaky performances later, his win ratio is a smidge over 48%.

 

I used the word history a few moments ago - and the same word could be applied to those stats. To the way he guided us clear of trouble in 2013-14, and to the way he guided us to glory in 2014-15. And so, in addition to everything I've already said in this post, that'll be the argument to twist. The good times have gone, the ship has sailed.

 

The answer

 

But still, however I feel about Cotterill the man, our current predicament and how I picture our longer-term future with or without him, I want us to be a club who sacks a manager with a 48% win ratio far less than I want us to pull the trigger.

 

As much as he was mocked for saying it when he first walked through the door, we should be in no doubt that our manager is a winner who has proved he's capable of assembling a team of winners.

 

And that's why, I remain convinced, he should be given free rein in January and then until the end of the season to keep us in the Championship.

[Davefevs]

@The Journalist nicely written given your monicker.  You sum up both sides of the argument.

For the umpteenth time I'm gonna say I like Cotts...and he deserves the January window.

There is some sentiment in that, but also some logic.  He should know what he needs to improve the squad and what players should fit in (yes, we all know what happened in the summer).  We also didn't blow our transfer budget in the previous window...that's one small godsend.  A new manager will not only have to the assess the current squad, what system us best etc....and I think that is a much bigger gamble.

i wonder what our fans would think if we got rid of Cotts and replaced him with someone like Brentford's new man, Dean Smith.  I've no idea who we can expect to get in should we twist.

is there no option of burning on 13s and 14s? 

[Shtanley]

I don't like Cotts, boring interviews and frustrating lack of substitutions. Always shouting even at the u21s and a dodgy haircut like you've said. But to sack him would be ridiculous. To not be in the relegation zone with our squad IMO is all that's required. He needs to be riskier in his transfer approach in January and go for up and coming players because they'll be available for less than 10k a week. Dack, Kasim and Bradshaw are just a few. 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

I don't like Cotts, boring interviews and frustrating lack of substitutions. Always shouting even at the u21s and a dodgy haircut like you've said. But to sack him would be ridiculous. To not be in the relegation zone with our squad IMO is all that's required. He needs to be riskier in his transfer approach in January and go for up and coming players because they'll be available for less than 10k a week. Dack, Kasim and Bradshaw are just a few.

We had the best players in league 1 last season and the vast majority of those have found the step up difficult.  We need players with the nous to manage Championship games in my opinion.

[GrahamC]

I think he deserves longer but if we don't win in the next three then I really don't think he'll be around for the January window.

By the way, Dack and Bradshaw mentioned on here yet again, yawn, one is the scum of the earth who after that court case we should not go anywhere near, the other is totally unproven, lacking in pace and with a questionable injury record.

Dougaraga of Brentford and Northern Ireland's Kyle Lafferty, that is the standard of player we need to bring in next month.

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

First up, let me pop my cards on the table. From everything I've watched, heard and read, before he arrived and since, I've never particularly liked Steve Cotterill. He's just not really my kind of bloke.

I don't like his smugness in victory, and even less so his excuses in defeat. I don't always like how he represents our club in the media, and subsequently I don't like that fans of other clubs don't like him. I don't even particularly like his spiky hair, nor the gold chain around his neck.

I've just never really warmed to Cotterill the man. I've tried, but I just haven't.

 

Is all of this important? The easy answer, of course, is 'not when we're winning'. But now we're losing? A bit of a dilemma, I'll concede.

 

To twist

 

After a truly unforgettable 2014-15, it goes without saying that it's since been a really tough six months; the first couple of those underpinned by a hopeless summer in the transfer market, and more recently by too many disappointing performances on the grass - and an even greater number of disappointing results.

 

Set against the backdrop of a redeveloped stadium and an apparently brighter future, it's all a bit of a nightmare. The question of how we'll fill a 27,000-seater stadium in League One is becoming a tired one, because the answer is so obvious.

 

So as we continue to hover around the relegation zone - the stats are well documented, with less points than games played and only three wins to speak of all season - the answer to the question of how we solve the problem also seems fairly obvious, right?

 

We're talking about a man whose personality has never really quite fitted in with the identity I want for our club, who seems to be sticking with certain players and systems week in, week out whatever the weather and whose record is actually pretty indifferent at this level either way. "Thanks for everything Steve", but "Times up Cotts". Right?

 

To stick

 

Before I continue, I probably need to put some more cards on the table. I'm an exiled fan who has seen us live only four times this season. I realise I'm probably feeling the full weight of those recent performances and results less than many of you, forking out hundreds of pounds - and hours - to watch us play every week. Does that make my opinion any less qualified? It may well do - and I accept that.

 

But, having said all of the above, something isn't sitting comfortably with me.

 

Alongside Keith Burt, Cotterill's recruitment strategy in the summer of 2014 was arguably the best in the club's history - and arguably provided us with the most successful season in the club's history. His signings were immaculate, as were, on the whole, his tactics, the teams he picked and the performances they produced.

 

Having taken over a team 23rd in League One and well used to losing, he went on to win 49 of his next 88 games in charge. Even now, 20 shaky performances later, his win ratio is a smidge over 48%.

 

I used the word history a few moments ago - and the same word could be applied to those stats. To the way he guided us clear of trouble in 2013-14, and to the way he guided us to glory in 2014-15. And so, in addition to everything I've already said in this post, that'll be the argument to twist. The good times have gone, the ship has sailed.

 

The answer

 

But still, however I feel about Cotterill the man, our current predicament and how I picture our longer-term future with or without him, I want us to be a club who sacks a manager with a 48% win ratio far less than I want us to pull the trigger.

 

As much as he was mocked for saying it when he first walked through the door, we should be in no doubt that our manager is a winner who has proved he's capable of assembling a team of winners.

 

And that's why, I remain convinced, he should be given free rein in January and then until the end of the season to keep us in the Championship.

As much is losing is hurting us all, I feel that my sympathy lays with keeping SC.

The issue surrounding recruitment really does not lay around the manager it lay around the inability of Mr. Pelling to bring home the players and deals he was required to do...To be fair to Pelling insane wage inflation, a club with three stands and with no recent history made us a hard sell, despite our very own benefactor, however that was his job, which he was duly fired for.

SC was clearly annoyed/angry about the original decision to go after player targets late, I would assume to see who they could pick up from the Prem who were surplus to requirements, a strategy that backfired appallingly and that got us to where we are now.

Fast forward August to December, we are where we are which I suspect SC would have forecast himself as he was pointing out players required, by the club.

Thus The BoD will be looking for new signings as soon as they are available and I would guess many are already identified and some probably under negotiation. This is exactly what a new guy will do, its a matter of choosing well. A goalscorer that is fit a midfielder with stature and experience should be target one and two and go from there...We look light weight particularly against Hull as such body mass will be a factor, all their players were big and could play!

(I have noticed SC demeanor in prematch interviews as looking a bit defeated of late and this does not sit well, so message to SC, snap out of it!) 

[bearded_red]

The only question that is relevant is whether he is the best man to get us to 52 points by May.

As much as it is laughable that some feel the need to try and play down his achievements last season, I'm also of the opinion that if you think it is best to change then you must change. You can't be thinking 'well I think we'd be better off without him, but I'll give him another month as last season was so good'. There is no golden amount of losses where suddenly the sack is fair or deserved, there is no exact science, it is a judgement call of what you believe to be best for the club at that time. Maybe it a silly comparison, but I remember Southampton being lamented for being ungrateful so and sos when they replaced Adkins with Pochettino. History would probably view that slightly differently!

Lets get it right, whenever the time comes that Cotterill moves on he should receive a heroes welcome whenever he comes back to Ashton Gate and there should be pictures of him and his double winners all over Ashton Gate (I'd personally make some room by taking down pictures of ******* egg chasers and Jenson Button and the like, but hey that's just me). I will be eternally grateful to Cotterill for first of all stopping the rot that had set in for 3/4 years and then giving us last season. The pride at Wembley, the disbelief at Valley Parade and making me burst into tears at fulltime against Coventry will be things that I will remember him for whatever happens from now on, but as cold as it may be, it isn't actually relevant to the task in hand now.

No fan should be thought of any less if they believe it is right for Cotterill to go and accusations of our fan base being any different to any other is a joke. I remember having to defend these accusations after we had lost away at Swindon under O'Driscoll after we had sold out our allocation to go and watch a team that hadn't won away in almost a year. Apparently people moaning on OTIB was why we were endlessly losing. Patience is relative, how long I may be prepared to wait for things to turn round is different to the next guy and nobody is any better or worse. I wanted McInnes sacked before almost anyone I know, does that make me fickle, or does the two or three months after having to watch teams 'managed' by that clown mean actually I was right all along? On the other hand being relatively supportive of O'Driscoll when most had lost any faith, doesn't make me an ultra loyal superfan it just make me wrong!

The elephant in the room all season when we have been discussing Wilbraham/Agard, Reid/Freeman or anything else has of course been the disastrous summer and as someone who doesn't feel the need to make things up on the internet I have no idea what went wrong and as to what extent the blame lies with Cotterill. My guess is that we were far too ambitious in the players we thought we could sign, be it whether we couldn't attract them as a recently promoted team or just couldn't afford them. This problem was magnified by, entirely understandably, by overrating the players we had due to still riding last years crest of a wave. Of course we will never know, but I would be interested right now that when Cotterill said after the Yeovil friendly that he could have signed 'two teams' but the players wouldn't have improved us whether he would look at it now and think that actually there were a few there that could have been better options at this level than some of our double winners.

It is really concerning how poor we've been recently. Before that I was relatively confident  and we had shown progress, developed and learned from our mistakes from the start of the season where our kamikaze football led to us looking like we'd concede on the counter almost every time we lost the ball. However since Wolves (and before that was the bloody Fulham game) with the exception of Hull (and their results since suggest maybe they aren't the unbeatable champions elect we all decided) we have been really, really bad. Bolton, Rotherham and Blackburn were all differing levels of rubbish and yet we have taken one point from those games and scored no goals. If you remove Kodjia (and we may as well have done in the last 3/4 games) where on earth are the goals coming from?

At the moment I would still stick with him as I still think the players are playing for him and I don't believe effort or application can be criticised. Maybe now he is beginning to come under pressure the players will look at their medals he helped them win last season and come out and really fight for him.. I would also say that with the exception of Rotherham I actually don't think we have put in a performance as bad as the ones we would regularly trot out under McInnes or O'Driscoll last time we were relegated. I would however be drawing up names and putting the odd little word about as to see who may be interested to replace Cotterill should the time come where we feel that is necessary.

I really do hope he turns it around, I can't wish anything other than all the luck in the world to him after what we did last season, and unlike others on this forum I would take absolutely no pleasure if the time comes that I feel it is right to move him on. However as I believe Cotterill himself said in his first press conference, and of course I'm paraphrasing, 'there ain't no point having any long term plan if you don't get the short term one right'.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I think he deserves longer but if we don't win in the next three then I really don't think he'll be around for the January window.

By the way, Dack and Bradshaw mentioned on here yet again, yawn, one is the scum of the earth who after that court case we should not go anywhere near, the other is totally unproven, lacking in pace and with a questionable injury record.

Dougaraga of Brentford and Northern Ireland's Kyle Lafferty, that is the standard of player we need to bring in next month.

Agree with Lafferty....would like him here.  Willing runner and target man plus can score goals.  What's not to like.

Dont agree with Dougaraga.  Thought he was ordinary for 30 minutes and then Freeman got sent off.  He was then allowed to look good.  I was only thinking about Dougaraga yesterday when the game was bypassing Hope Akpan until the second half.  Baker sent off and then he looked a good player.

ive finally disagreed with you 

 

[The Journalist]

On 12/6/2015, 3:52:53, bearded_red said:

ry and play down his achievements last season, I'm also of the opinion that if you think it is best to change then you must change. You can't be thinking 'well I think we'd be better off without him, but I'll give him another month as last season was so good'. There is no golden amount of losses where suddenly the sack is fair or deserved, there is no exact science, it is a judgement call of what you believe to be best for t

Some really good points here.

I would say that, whatever an individual's opinion, I do think we've reached a really key moment already.

Personally, I'm not sure what you have to achieve by going with @GrahamC's view that he has another three games - surely you have to be making a decision for the rest of the season right here, right now? What difference does three games make? Do we really want a caretaker in charge for the manic festive period? How can we expect a new manager to come in around Christmas time and assess things in time to recruit wisely in January? That'd just be bonkers.

The way I see it, whoever is our manager in February, March, April and May simply has to be whoever is in charge in January. And, as I've said before, I think Cotterill and Burt have shown us already that they can pull off the recruitment necessary to keep us up.

[MC RISK77]

19 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

Some really good points here.

I would say that, whatever an individual's opinion, I do think we've reached a really key moment already.

Personally, I'm not sure what you have to achieve by going with @GrahamC's view that he has another three games - surely you have to be making a decision for the rest of the season right here, right now? What difference does three games make? Do we really want a caretaker in charge for the manic festive period? How can we expect a new manager to come in around Christmas time and assess things in time to recruit wisely in January? That'd just be bonkers.

The way I see it, whoever is our manager in February, March, April and May simply has to be whoever is in charge in January. And, as I've said before, I think Cotterill and Burt have shown us already that they can pull off the recruitment necessary to keep us up.

Do you work for the Daily Mail by any chance??

[cheshire_red]

18 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

And, as I've said before, I think Cotterill and Burt have shown us already that they can pull off the recruitment necessary to keep us up.

Have they? They have shown us they can pull off the recruitment necessary to get us up. One Summer signing which was first class, two loan signings which have been first class. A number of poor loan signings simply not of the standard required. 

[The Journalist]

2 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Do you work for the Daily Mail by any chance??

No, why? Do you?

[The Journalist]

2 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

Have they? They have shown us they can pull off the recruitment necessary to get us up. One Summer signing which was first class, two loan signings which have been first class. A number of poor loan signings simply not of the standard required. 

I think they've shown they can identify and sign quality players on permanent deals, absolutely. We've not signed too much rubbish, have we?

Our biggest problem this summer was the players we didn't sign - but then judging by how frustrated Cotterill came across about our inactivity towards the end of the window, I don't feel like that was necessarily entirely his fault. Far from it, in fact.

Then again, I may be completely wide of the mark with all of that! 

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 12/6/2015 at 12:49, The Journalist said:

First up, let me pop my cards on the table. From everything I've watched, heard and read, before he arrived and since, I've never particularly liked Steve Cotterill. He's just not really my kind of bloke.

I don't like his smugness in victory, and even less so his excuses in defeat. I don't always like how he represents our club in the media, and subsequently I don't like that fans of other clubs don't like him. I don't even particularly like his spiky hair, nor the gold chain around his neck.

I've just never really warmed to Cotterill the man. I've tried, but I just haven't.

 

Is all of this important? The easy answer, of course, is 'not when we're winning'. But now we're losing? A bit of a dilemma, I'll concede.

 

To twist

 

After a truly unforgettable 2014-15, it goes without saying that it's since been a really tough six months; the first couple of those underpinned by a hopeless summer in the transfer market, and more recently by too many disappointing performances on the grass - and an even greater number of disappointing results.

 

Set against the backdrop of a redeveloped stadium and an apparently brighter future, it's all a bit of a nightmare. The question of how we'll fill a 27,000-seater stadium in League One is becoming a tired one, because the answer is so obvious.

 

So as we continue to hover around the relegation zone - the stats are well documented, with less points than games played and only three wins to speak of all season - the answer to the question of how we solve the problem also seems fairly obvious, right?

 

We're talking about a man whose personality has never really quite fitted in with the identity I want for our club, who seems to be sticking with certain players and systems week in, week out whatever the weather and whose record is actually pretty indifferent at this level either way. "Thanks for everything Steve", but "Times up Cotts". Right?

 

To stick

 

Before I continue, I probably need to put some more cards on the table. I'm an exiled fan who has seen us live only four times this season. I realise I'm probably feeling the full weight of those recent performances and results less than many of you, forking out hundreds of pounds - and hours - to watch us play every week. Does that make my opinion any less qualified? It may well do - and I accept that.

 

But, having said all of the above, something isn't sitting comfortably with me.

 

Alongside Keith Burt, Cotterill's recruitment strategy in the summer of 2014 was arguably the best in the club's history - and arguably provided us with the most successful season in the club's history. His signings were immaculate, as were, on the whole, his tactics, the teams he picked and the performances they produced.

 

Having taken over a team 23rd in League One and well used to losing, he went on to win 49 of his next 88 games in charge. Even now, 20 shaky performances later, his win ratio is a smidge over 48%.

 

I used the word history a few moments ago - and the same word could be applied to those stats. To the way he guided us clear of trouble in 2013-14, and to the way he guided us to glory in 2014-15. And so, in addition to everything I've already said in this post, that'll be the argument to twist. The good times have gone, the ship has sailed.

 

The answer

 

But still, however I feel about Cotterill the man, our current predicament and how I picture our longer-term future with or without him, I want us to be a club who sacks a manager with a 48% win ratio far less than I want us to pull the trigger.

 

As much as he was mocked for saying it when he first walked through the door, we should be in no doubt that our manager is a winner who has proved he's capable of assembling a team of winners.

 

And that's why, I remain convinced, he should be given free rein in January and then until the end of the season to keep us in the Championship.

We all have different perceptions of an individual, and as you say you never have, and still don't like Cotterill.

I find him reasonable in interviews unless there is a particular reason not to be, i.e Swindon cheating, excessive pitch watering at Orient, the opposition forever going down with spurious head injuries (Colchester, wasn't it?) He certainly often makes a point of putting in a good word for the opposition manager, something noteworthy by it being so unusual. Most outspoken comments I've heard would mirror the opinions of City fans attending the match.

That's not to say he's he doesn't sometimes irritate, but that's par for the course in just about every manager I've ever seen interviewed, and it's especially easy to find fault by the sheer bulk of interviews the media insist on these days. I don't find Cotterill particularly 'smug' either - why shouldn't he have pride in his achievements? - but as I say it's all about perception, and if you don't like him you're more likely to see this as a fault.

Does he crow over individual victories, not that I've noticed.

As for fans of other clubs 'not liking him, well that's a good thing imo. It means they consider him a threat, and why would we want opposition fans to like our manager anyway? If he's successful the chances are he's beaten their team so they won't. Gary Johnson wasn't liked much either. Keith Millen however seems very popular..............

Do we want a genuine winner, with a touch of arrogance which often goes hand in hand, or someone who would never win anything except a (temporary) popularity contest? Temporary, because if he's not getting results his popularity will soon wane.

You say 'Cotterill's personality has never really fitted in with the identity I want for this club'. Just interested then - out of the 92 currently employed, and the countless others 'resting' at present, can you name, say 5, potential replacements who you feel would be a better fit.... because I reckon they're few and far between and that SC's a very good fit indeed for BCFC. So who are these managers who are 'your sort of bloke', who would more likely keep City in the Championship, and who'd represent City in the media more to your liking?

I'm for sticking btw.

[The Journalist]

10 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We all have different perceptions of an individual, and as you say you never have, and still don't like Cotterill.

I find him reasonable in interviews unless there is a particular reason not to be, i.e Swindon cheating, excessive pitch watering at Orient, the opposition forever going down with spurious head injuries (Colchester, wasn't it?) He certainly often makes a point of putting in a good word for the opposition manager, something noteworthy by it being so unusual. Most outspoken comments I've heard would mirror the opinions of City fans attending the match.

That's not to say he's he doesn't sometimes irritate, but that's par for the course in just about every manager I've ever seen interviewed, and it's especially easy to find fault by the sheer bulk of interviews the media insist on these days. I don't find Cotterill particularly 'smug' either - why shouldn't he have pride in his achievements? - but as I say it's all about perception, and if you don't like him you're more likely to see this as a fault.

Does he crow over individual victories, not that I've noticed.

As for fans of other clubs 'not liking him, well that's a good thing imo. It means they consider him a threat, and why would we want opposition fans to like our manager anyway? If he's successful the chances are he's beaten their team so they won't. Gary Johnson wasn't liked much either. Keith Millen however seems very popular..............

Do we want a genuine winner, with a touch of arrogance which often goes hand in hand, or someone who would never win anything except a (temporary) popularity contest? Temporary, because if he's not getting results his popularity will soon wane.

You say 'Cotterill's personality has never really fitted in with the identity I want for this club'. Just interested then - out of the 92 currently employed, and the countless others 'resting' at present, can you name, say 5, potential replacements who you feel would be a better fit.... because I reckon they're few and far between and that SC's a very good fit indeed for BCFC. So who are these managers who are 'your sort of bloke', who would more likely keep City in the Championship, and who'd represent City in the media more to your liking?

I'm for sticking btw.

Let's be clear, I'm for sticking too.

I feel like you've gone after me a bit there - just your tone, correct me if I'm wrong - but I do agree with a lot of what you've said.

My point is that, though I've never warmed to him, he's a winner and done a fabulous job. And the reason I think we should stick by him is exactly that, not because I'm some Steve Cotterill apologist, as his supporters seem to be accused of being by some.

And so, to answer your final question, I couldn't name five with that "more likely to keep City in the Championship" tag attached - because I think Steve Cotterill will keep us in the Championship.

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 12/6/2015 at 12:49, The Journalist said:

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

Let's be clear, I'm for sticking too.

I feel like you've gone after me a bit there - just your tone, correct me if I'm wrong - but I do agree with a lot of what you've said.

My point is that, though I've never warmed to him, he's a winner and done a fabulous job. And the reason I think we should stick by him is exactly that, not because I'm some Steve Cotterill apologist, as his supporters seem to be accused of being by some.

And so, to answer your final question, I couldn't name five with that "more likely to keep City in the Championship" tag attached - because I think Steve Cotterill will keep us in the Championship.

Apologies if it came over as antagonistic TJ, it wasn't meant to.

I do find this issue of fans disliking him, often at a more personal than professional level, interesting though.

I'd never particularly liked or disliked SC pre City but I took to him at the first extended interview, finding his enthusiasm and passion a really refreshing change and I've certainly warmed to him since due to the success he's brought to the club, and the manner of it. 

Never mind keeping us up or not then, you did say he 'has a personality who I've never felt fitted in with the identity I want for this club.'

I disagree, I think he's near enough exactly the right fit, but I'm well aware that others agree with you.

I've watched numerous opposition managers on Player. They invariably moan to their local fans and media and put forward excuses equally if not more post match than Cotterill. He strikes me, if anything, as being amongst the more open and least irksome in that respect.

Asking you to name 5 was probably unreasonable, but how about 3, or even 1? Who out there would be a better fit, someone who could bring reasonable success going forward whilst also bringing with him the personality you feel could fit in with the identity you want for City?

[The Journalist]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

 

Apologies if it came over as antagonistic TJ, it wasn't meant to.

I do find this issue of fans disliking him, often at a more personal than professional level, interesting though.

I'd never particularly liked or disliked SC pre City but I took to him at the first extended interview, finding his enthusiasm and passion a really refreshing change and I've certainly warmed to him since due to the success he's brought to the club, and the manner of it. 

Never mind keeping us up or not then, you did say he 'has a personality who I've never felt fitted in with the identity I want for this club.'

I disagree, I think he's near enough exactly the right fit, but I'm well aware that others agree with you.

I've watched numerous opposition managers on Player. They invariably moan to their local fans and media and put forward excuses equally if not more post match than Cotterill. He strikes me, if anything, as being amongst the more open and least irksome in that respect.

Asking you to name 5 was probably unreasonable, but how about 3, or even 1? Who out there would be a better fit, someone who could bring reasonable success going forward whilst also bringing with him the personality you feel could fit in with the identity you want for City?

To pick some from our own division, perhaps Chris Hughton? Simon Grayson? Even Gary Rowett? All well liked in the game by peers, journalists and supporters and all have a very decent record.

But, exactly as you alluded to, winning a few football matches between now and May and keeping us in the Championship isn't a popularity contest. Managers of those personality and fit may be my preference long term, but I'd still think twice about swapping them for Steve Cotterill here and now. He deserves a bit more time to get the job done, in my book.

Hopefully that doesn't sound too contradictory!

[spudski]

I don't know any fan that thinks SC, as a manager, is a threat.

Seriously....has anyone ever heard another fan from another Club apart from Cheltenham, say 'SC is a great manager and tactician and someone we should fear'?

Especially in this league....

Lots of fans and people who work in the game, think he's old school and one dimensional and uninspiring.

Many think he comes across as arrogant and talks bull.

That's from fans of clubs who he has managed at before and not.

The only other fans I've ever heard praise him are Cheltenham....that was for his achievements in the lower leagues rather than his 'personality'.

 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I find him reasonable in interviews unless there is a particular reason not to be, i.e Swindon cheating, excessive pitch watering at Orient, the opposition forever going down with spurious head injuries (Colchester, wasn't it?)

 

Do these sound like reasonable comments? Alluding that the chief of referees somehow has a conspiracy against Bristol City - "we've decided we don't get penalties and the opposition do".

Sounds desperate to me, and quite laughable to be honest. Concentrate on the job in hand Steve, referees don't hate Bristol City. We need to play better and create more chances - we might even start winning some penalties then.

 

Quote

 

In a message intended for referees chief Allison, he declared: "If you're reading this, don't bother calling me this week."

He added: "Dave Allison spoke to me a few weeks ago and asked me not to give up on him. Well, I've given up on him.

"Any good information I have given him since we've been promoted has gone in one ear and out of the other. It has been a total waste of time."

Of Mr Eltringham's decision not to award a penalty for what appeared to be a clear foul on Agard when the score was still 0-0 and then grant Blackburn a spot kick, Cotterill fumed: "We've decided we don't get penalties and the opposition do. It was 100 per cent not a penalty – Aden Flint has not touched him.

Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/BRISTOL-CITY/story-28308455-detail/story.html#ixzz3tkWb9qnJ

 

 

[View from the Dolman]

Or alternatively it could make you ask why Mr Allison has been calling other weeks...?

Does he call every manager regardless of the weekend's events?

Or does he call to apologise because one of his guys has messed up?

[Nogbad the Bad]

22 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

To pick some from our own division, perhaps Chris Hughton? Simon Grayson? Even Gary Rowett? All well liked in the game by peers, journalists and supporters and all have a very decent record.

But, exactly as you alluded to, winning a few football matches between now and May and keeping us in the Championship isn't a popularity contest. Managers of those personality and fit may be my preference long term, but I'd still think twice about swapping them for Steve Cotterill here and now. He deserves a bit more time to get the job done, in my book.

Hopefully that doesn't sound too contradictory!

Fair enough.

Grayson's not my cup of tea, far too dour for me personality wise and too defensively minded football wise. Not sure he's too popular at PNE even now.

The other 2 are certainly doing well at the moment, but they will have their periods of struggle too, and it's then we'll see their mettle and the strength of their boards to back them through the inevitable difficult times if they believe in them.

If Hughton takes Brighton up will his reward be the sack if they're struggling next Christmas? Would that be fair and reasonable, and likewise would it be reasonable to get rid of Cotts. in the near future?

Isn't a club finding life difficult in a higher division to be expected, and exactly the time to support your manager? With stability and appropriate expectations being vital at any football club, all the more reason to stick with Cotts. imo.  

[Nogbad the Bad]

32 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Do these sound like reasonable comments? Alluding that the chief of referees somehow has a conspiracy against Bristol City - "we've decided we don't get penalties and the opposition do".

Sounds desperate to me, and quite laughable to be honest. Concentrate on the job in hand Steve, referees don't hate Bristol City. We need to play better and create more chances - we might even start winning some penalties then.

 

 

As I said, most outspoken comments he makes mirror the view of City supporters who have watched the game.

I certainly feel we have been very hard done by regarding penalty decisions at both ends of the pitch this season, and have no problem with the manager stating this.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

50 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't know any fan that thinks SC, as a manager, is a threat.

Seriously....has anyone ever heard another fan from another Club apart from Cheltenham, say 'SC is a great manager and tactician and someone we should fear'?

Especially in this league....

Lots of fans and people who work in the game, think he's old school and one dimensional and uninspiring.

Many think he comes across as arrogant and talks bull.

That's from fans of clubs who he has managed at before and not.

The only other fans I've ever heard praise him are Cheltenham....that was for his achievements in the lower leagues rather than his 'personality'.

 

Daft if they didn't last season, the team assembled by Cotterill, and the imperious way he sent them out to play, should have made them very trepidatious.

If they didn't feel he was a threat before the game, you can be sure many of them felt chastened and held him in far higher regard afterwards.

The only fans you've heard praise him are Cheltenham? Notts. County fans can't speak highly enough of him for a start, and the same, in case you'd forgotten, applies to many thousands of Bristol City fans. 

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

Quote for you Spudski from the Notts. County Chairman:

"The job that Steve Cotterill did for us here will live long in the memory of all Notts. County fans and, as is the mark of all great managers, he leaves the club in a much better position than when he arrived."

The fans absolutely love Cotterill at Notts. County.

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Daft if they didn't last season, the team assembled by Cotterill, and the imperious way he sent them out to play, should have made them very trepidatious.

If they didn't feel he was a threat before the game, you can be sure many of them felt chastened and held him in far higher regard afterwards.

The only fans you've heard praise him are Cheltenham? Notts. County fans can't speak highly enough of him for a start, and the same, in case you'd forgotten, applies to many thousands of Bristol City fans. 

 

Maybe I should have emphasised 'Lower leagues' more Noggers.

I don't know any fan that thinks SC is a manager that can be a sustained success in this league.

Granted he's done well in the lower leagues and has help avoid relegation in others.

The majority of City fans I hear that are positive towards SC, say he should stay, as reward for last season...not because they think he is a manager that can take us higher in this league.

Those words the Notts County manager spoke, I can imagine coming from SL when SC leaves.

[GrahamC]

5 hours ago, The Journalist said:

Some really good points here.

I would say that, whatever an individual's opinion, I do think we've reached a really key moment already.

Personally, I'm not sure what you have to achieve by going with @GrahamC's view that he has another three games - surely you have to be making a decision for the rest of the season right here, right now? What difference does three games make? Do we really want a caretaker in charge for the manic festive period? How can we expect a new manager to come in around Christmas time and assess things in time to recruit wisely in January? That'd just be bonkers.

The way I see it, whoever is our manager in February, March, April and May simply has to be whoever is in charge in January. And, as I've said before, I think Cotterill and Burt have shown us already that they can pull off the recruitment necessary to keep us up.

I said three more games because much as I want Cotterill to succeed and think he deserves a chance, if we get to the 22 game stage and he's only won three of them then it would be very hard to argue that he was going to earn us enough points to survive in the remainder of the season.

The upturn in form that would be required would then be based on hope rather than evidence..

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 12/6/2015 at 14:53, GrahamC said:

I think he deserves longer but if we don't win in the next three then I really don't think he'll be around for the January window.

By the way, Dack and Bradshaw mentioned on here yet again, yawn, one is the scum of the earth who after that court case we should not go anywhere near, the other is totally unproven, lacking in pace and with a questionable injury record.

Dougaraga of Brentford and Northern Ireland's Kyle Lafferty, that is the standard of player we need to bring in next month.

While having every sympathy with your view regarding Dack, I'm surprised you then go on to recommend Lafferty.

Palermo president Maurizio Zamparini claimed he was 'an out of control womaniser', and said it was this lifestyle that resulted in him being sold.

No court cases like Dack, nonetheless another with a very tarnished reputation, and not the sort I'd like to see at AG.

Interestingly he crossed paths with SC at Burnley for 3 years, so at least he'll be well aware of the pros and cons of signing him.

http://www.football-italia.net/51176/palermo-lafferty-out-control

 

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

While having every sympathy with your view regarding Dack, I'm surprised you then go on to recommend Lafferty.

Palermo president Maurizio Zamparini claimed he was 'an out of control womaniser', and said it was this lifestyle that resulted in him being sold.

No court cases like Dack, nonetheless another with a very tarnished reputation, and not the sort I'd like to see at AG.

Interestingly he crossed paths with SC at Burnley for 3 years, so at least he'll be well aware of the pros and cons of signing him.

http://www.football-italia.net/51176/palermo-lafferty-out-control

 

Lafferty certainly had an off the field reputation, though I'd take the words of Palermo's president with a huge pinch of salt.

He's recently married and personally think there is a world of difference between someone who (in the past certainly) couldn't resist a pretty girl and the vile stuff that Dack went to court for.

He's also sometimes a brilliant centre forward as his Norn Iron appearances show..

[Vespa Red]

For me, it's the suit and jumper formation that he persists with every match that I find irritating.  Personally, I think he needs to go back to the 3 piece suit combination.  I appreciate that he may be favouring a tank top behind his jacket but it's never possible to tell....

[Superjack]

5 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We all have different perceptions of an individual, and as you say you never have, and still don't like Cotterill.

I find him reasonable in interviews unless there is a particular reason not to be, i.e Swindon cheating, excessive pitch watering at Orient, the opposition forever going down with spurious head injuries (Colchester, wasn't it?) He certainly often makes a point of putting in a good word for the opposition manager, something noteworthy by it being so unusual. Most outspoken comments I've heard would mirror the opinions of City fans attending the match.

That's not to say he's he doesn't sometimes irritate, but that's par for the course in just about every manager I've ever seen interviewed, and it's especially easy to find fault by the sheer bulk of interviews the media insist on these days. I don't find Cotterill particularly 'smug' either - why shouldn't he have pride in his achievements? - but as I say it's all about perception, and if you don't like him you're more likely to see this as a fault.

Does he crow over individual victories, not that I've noticed.

As for fans of other clubs 'not liking him, well that's a good thing imo. It means they consider him a threat, and why would we want opposition fans to like our manager anyway? If he's successful the chances are he's beaten their team so they won't. Gary Johnson wasn't liked much either. Keith Millen however seems very popular..............

Do we want a genuine winner, with a touch of arrogance which often goes hand in hand, or someone who would never win anything except a (temporary) popularity contest? Temporary, because if he's not getting results his popularity will soon wane.

You say 'Cotterill's personality has never really fitted in with the identity I want for this club'. Just interested then - out of the 92 currently employed, and the countless others 'resting' at present, can you name, say 5, potential replacements who you feel would be a better fit.... because I reckon they're few and far between and that SC's a very good fit indeed for BCFC. So who are these managers who are 'your sort of bloke', who would more likely keep City in the Championship, and who'd represent City in the media more to your liking?

I'm for sticking btw.

Sense again from Noggers.