BCFC Jimmer Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 16 hours ago, Big Brother said: 4 hours ago, Big Brother said: Nit picking? You were besmirching the image of a country and made a claim which was false. You were pulled-up on it first by Marshy and then by me - with hard data. You were wrong. It happens. Move on. Which violence against which ethnic minorities? If Russia is acting in an aggressive way to sovereign nations or ethnic groups (as the USA has done consistently for the last 20 or 30 years) then I'll definitely condemn it. Send me some stuff to read but save the links to Ukraine. I've spent time with Ukrainian refugees and my mind is made-up on this issue. I'm homophobic am I? Labels ... don't you just love them? Lefty tactics. I have nothing at all against whatever people want to do in the privacy of their own homes. We all find happiness in our own way. But that's where it should stay imo, at home, between consenting adults. Orphans don't give consent. Btw I have a nephew who is gay. I have two good friends who are gay, one since the early 80s. I have my opinion, they have theirs - doesn't stop us loving each other. And more personal insults. Collis what can I say? I am not throwing insults at you but you're accusing me of being an unpleasant person. I'm not going to bite. The claim wasn't false. It is widely known that Russia doesn't have a care for the environment. Maybe other countries have overtaken it in terms of air pollution but largely irrelevant to the overall point. I am not saying the UK are saints when it comes to this and I have separate issues about that. It does sound like you make a lot of shit up to try and justify your backward opinions. You are claiming to know Ukrainian refugees now. Do we have another Aussie on our hands here? Homophobic? Of course you are. You meet the definition for it - "Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender ". Saying they shouldn't adopt children is 100% a negative attitude towards them so you can't worm your way out of that one I'm afraid. I don't know you personally and you could be a blast for all I know. But from the evidence on here I think you are an unpleasant person, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 So what is the difference between you and an economic migrant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 1 minute ago, Big Brother said: All my work is in the UK. I was under the impression you live in Italy? You say you've worked in 20 countries - I'm confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 5 hours ago, TRL said: My view is still the same For the woman you know. A child should be born out of a loving relationship it should not be treated as something you know want because you now feel ready for it. On to adoption.... Does the person you know work? How does she intend to look after this child she may want to adopt? I am presuming she has to work to support said child... If this is the case I don't think she should be able to adopt as where does the child go? Nursery? Parents? Its just the way I think... If you want children you leave work and look after them, don't put them into nursery or off to the parents. Just my opinion.. I know many will not agree with it Are you assuming the child will be an infant? Few of the children up for adoption are babies, and many are already school age. A secure home with a single working parent is better than the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Fact checking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 20 hours ago, Big Brother said: He doesn't have up to date figures because if he had he would know that in 2014 a study by Yale University showed that Russia's average air quality score is better than that of Denmark, France, Greece, Cyprus, Japan, Italy, and others, and only marginally worse than that of the UK: http://epi.yale.edu/epi/issue-ranking/air-quality If you examine the data a little further you see that the EPI score for air quality is composed of 3 parts: Household air quality: this is a score based on the proportion of homes cooking over solid fuels. Russia is joint 1st in the world in this category. Average Exposure to PM2.5: this is a score based on concentration of very small particulate air pollution divided by the population. Russia is joint 1st in this category. PM2.5 Exceedance: this is a score based on the percentage of the population exposed to levels of very small particulate air pollution which exceed the WHO guidelines. Russia is 113th in this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 This links interactive map based on 2014 WHO data on air pollution. Note the amount of data available for Russia. And this links to a Pravda article which states "53% of the urban population (approx 55 million people) live in areas with high and very high levels of pollution." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 The Russia that some posters on here apparently so admire is basically a kleptocracy - government by a clique of thieves. Let us consider how its new billionaires acquired their massive wealth. How did a tyre fitter take 50% control of the state oil fields in just under 4 years (Abramovitch) and how did an Uzbek jailbird come to own Russia's copper industry in 18 months? (Usmanov) What about the market stallholder who was chairman of Russia's largest bank in two years and now wants a stake in the North Sea (Mikhail Fridman - Putin's biggest ally). Putin himself is estimated to be worth £2.7bn. He must've been a hell of a saver on that KGB salary! No, there is no legal way Russia's elite could acquire their wealth - it comes from gangsterism ; corruption and cronyism.Organised plunder of the country's resources. Nationalism, a sense of persecution and Cold War nostalgia are currently distracting the Russian working class to the fact that they are being robbed blind and kept significantly poorer than the citizens of other former Warsaw Pact states. Draping the flag in front of their eyes won't work forever. The last criminal clique to exploit on such a scale were the Romanovs and the Russian aristocracy. They had a good ride for centuries, but came to a distinctly sticky end after 1917. If I were an oligarch, I'd keep my private jet well fuelled. You never know when you'll have to flee to Monaco ahead of a torch-bearing mob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 30 minutes ago, Big Brother said: ... because there isn't any cronyism, corruption, cover-up of pedophilia within the Establishment, cash-for-questions, government contracts for mates and so on in the UK. Do you think the corruption is comparable in the UK and Russia? Or even Italy and Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 14 hours ago, Big Brother said: ... because there isn't any cronyism, corruption, cover-up of pedophilia within the Establishment, cash-for-questions, government contracts for mates and so on in the UK. Of course there is! But if you upset David ******* Cameron he doesn't send a squad of Chechens to machine gun you. Take a look and see where Russia is on the (independently scrutinised) list of international corruption. It's near the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 14 hours ago, Big Brother said: ... because there isn't any cronyism, corruption, cover-up of pedophilia within the Establishment, cash-for-questions, government contracts for mates and so on in the UK. Fair enough, but political assassinations have happened routinely in Russia and abroad of Putin critics. Funnily enough no Putin loyalists seem to have been targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 5 hours ago, Big Brother said: Everything in Russia is bigger. Italy is entirely corrupt and compromised at every level imaginable. I hope the debate can now focus once again on the real issue. What was the real issue? Just going back to the corruption for a moment - transparency.org produce an annual CPI (Corruption Perception Index). Russia score 27 (the same as Nigeria) placing them 139th in the world. Italy score 43 (69th) and the UK, score 78 ranking us 14th. One possible conclusion from reading this thread is that Russia is corrupt and polluted, but that some people admire the strong leadership of Putin. Does that have anything to do with George Ferguson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 It is now being reported that one of the Paris assailants came through Greece as a refugee in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 40 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said: It is now being reported that one of the Paris assailants came through Greece as a refugee in October. ........... ........... .......... Waysist Apologies for the delay, had to find the race card, it's been overused today. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 2 hours ago, Big Brother said: None at all unless George starts to love British people, and I can't see that happening judging by the colour of his trousers The thing about the trousers was a joke btw but it's the first time I've smiled since I saw the news last night about the Paris attacks, so thanks for prompting it. George's trousers are no joke. You have just outed yourself as an anti-pantist of the worst order. I expect a full apology immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well at last someone in the EU, the Polish Foreign Minister, has said something I've been thinking for a long time. There are hundreds of thousands of young, energetic Syrians in Europe that could be formed into an army and sent back to fight for their country against ISIL. After all why should they consider sending young Polish guys out there to fight for their freedom when Syrians can sit around in the cafes of Berlin drinking coffee in secure surroundings. It reminds me of something David Starkey, not everyone's cup of tea, once said on Question Time in response to a question about Libya that 'a people does not truly value its freedom unless it has fought for it itself'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 On 8 September 2015 8:22:08, Collis1 said: After World War 2 we had huge numbers of refugees/immigration. That's when the country was financially ruined. Only difference now is that the refugees are mostly from Africa, instead of Europe. The argument that immigrants are the cause of poverty in the UK is completely ignorant and untrue. Been through that on here 100 times. That's a contradiction in terms, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 30 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: That's a contradiction in terms, surely? Not at all. Our financial recovery after the war proved that we could create jobs and wealth by creating public jobs - building schools, hospitals etc. Now there is a focus to blame immigrants for the ills in our society when actually its a fundamental change in the economy and how the country is being run that is shafting the poor and middle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 9 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Not at all. Our financial recovery after the war proved that we could create jobs and wealth by creating public jobs - building schools, hospitals etc. Now there is a focus to blame immigrants for the ills in our society when actually its a fundamental change in the economy and how the country is being run that is shafting the poor and middle class. This thread proves that just isn't the case, those people are hugely in the minority on this thread and in the country. if you were correct Ukip would surely have more than 1 MP. The vast majority fall into the camp I am in, I have no problem as long as immigrants are thoroughly checked as to who they might be and if they pose a danger to Britain in any way shape or form, that they abide by the laws of Britain and if they transgress the more serious of those laws, they can be deported without the nonsense of the human rights act and shit like 'a right to a family life' or any other such nonsense. As for the middle class I agree, however they will learn about being shafted if labour under Corbyn ever get elected IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: This thread proves that just isn't the case, those people are hugely in the minority on this thread and in the country. if you were correct Ukip would surely have more than 1 MP. The vast majority fall into the camp I am in, I have no problem as long as immigrants are thoroughly checked as to who they might be and if they pose a danger to Britain in any way shape or form, that they abide by the laws of Britain and if they transgress the more serious of those laws, they can be deported without the nonsense of the human rights act and shit like 'a right to a family life' or any other such nonsense. As for the middle class I agree, however they will learn about being shafted if labour under Corbyn ever get elected IMO. As I'm sure you know UKIP is not against immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: This thread proves that just isn't the case, those people are hugely in the minority on this thread and in the country. if you were correct Ukip would surely have more than 1 MP. Beyond any doubt there is a coordinated and intentional scapegoating of immigrants by some politicians and the media. They are consistently blamed for social problems whilst the true perpetrators get off lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 22 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Beyond any doubt there is a coordinated and intentional scapegoating of immigrants by some politicians and the media. They are consistently blamed for social problems whilst the true perpetrators get off lightly. Apart from the 'some politicians' reference IMO your first sentence is wrong and these some politicians are just extremists and there will always be extremists, what media are you talking about?, certainly not the mainstream media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Apart from the 'some politicians' reference IMO your first sentence is wrong and these some politicians are just extremists and there will always be extremists, what media are you talking about?, certainly not the mainstream media. The Daily Mail is a prime example of a media outlet stirring up hatred towards immigrants, benefit cheats and refugees. But I have also seen similar on Sky News and even the BBC. Immigrants are an easy target whilst the media in general seems to ignore the real issues like corporate tax avoidance and tax payer money topping up private companies that make a profit. Many right wing (sometimes even 'left wing') politicians have used immigration as a scapegoat for political point scoring. My best mate Nigel Farage being the latest despicable character to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm not against immigration, but I am against the way the government always handles it when they get here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, Collis1 said: The Daily Mail is a prime example of a media outlet stirring up hatred towards immigrants, benefit cheats and refugees. But I have also seen similar on Sky News and even the BBC. Immigrants are an easy target whilst the media in general seems to ignore the real issues like corporate tax avoidance and tax payer money topping up private companies that make a profit. Many right wing (sometimes even 'left wing') politicians have used immigration as a scapegoat for political point scoring. My best mate Nigel Farage being the latest despicable character to do so. I don't subscribe to Sky so cannot comment, you will have to evidence your BBC claim because that one is news to me, in fact I would say completely the opposite. I will await your BBC evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 21 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: I don't subscribe to Sky so cannot comment, you will have to evidence your BBC claim because that one is news to me, in fact I would say completely the opposite. I will await your BBC evidence. They often mention and have debates about immigration, benefit fraud whilst ignoring the unjust use of resources amoungst the corporate elite. To me that constitutes intentional scapegoating. Its not in their interests to go after political corruption or corporate tax evasion because they depend on the license fee. Its only a select few media organizations that actually tell us of these ills and the BBC are definitely not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Just now, Collis1 said: They often mention and have debates about immigration, benefit fraud whilst ignoring the unjust use of resources amoungst the corporate elite. To me that constitutes intentional scapegoating. Its not in their interests to go after political corruption or corporate tax evasion because they depend on the license fee. Its only a select few media organizations that actually tell us of these ills and the BBC are definitely not one of them. That is your evidence? well I don't know about everybody else i'm convinced. As for the rest of the rant I eagerly await labours brains trust and their full policy and how that policy will be implemented because boy it will have to work to pay for all Corbyn's grand schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: That is your evidence? well I don't know about everybody else i'm convinced. As for the rest of the rant I eagerly await labours brains trust and their full policy and how that policy will be implemented because boy it will have to work to pay for all Corbyn's grand schemes. Its an observation over many years of watching some of its content. If you have time to search through their website (I don't) then i'm sure you will find plenty of articles on immigrants and benefit fraud whilst there is probably none for corporations that have knowingly broken the law or other grave injustices that are taking money away from the middle and working class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Its an observation over many years of watching some of its content. If you have time to search through their website (I don't) then i'm sure you will find plenty of articles on immigrants and benefit fraud whilst there is probably none for corporations that have knowingly broken the law or other grave injustices that are taking money away from the middle and working class. i'm not going to waste my time searching for something that doesn't exist and neither will any normal person on this forum, may I suggest that you're on your own with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: i'm not going to waste my time searching for something that doesn't exist and neither will any normal person on this forum, may I suggest that you're on your own with this one. When was the last time you saw a report or program on the BBC criticizing tax dodging corporate elites or tax evasion among the super rich? It just doesn't happen. I have to read other media outlets otherwise I probably wouldn't even know about half of it (as probably a majority of people in the country don't!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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