So let me get this straight.....

[EnclosureSurge]

23 hours ago, chinapig said:

I commented recently on how little heed had been paid to SL's comments after the Sheff Wed game about being surprised at the level of wages in the Championship. This was at the very least a tacit admission of incompetence and seemed to betray SL's own lack of football expertise. The loss of Pelling simply exacerbates the situation, given that we have an invisible Chairman and that there is no reason to believe JL is any more expert than his Dad. One of the latter 2 is presumably fulfilling the Pelling role, in which case I see little cause for optimism. Enthusiastic amateurs are no substitute for professional expertise. If SL believes otherwise, perhaps he would give me a job at Hargreaves Lansdown?

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/pelling-leaves-city-post-2681803.aspx

Doug Harman is in the hot seat.

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/pelling-leaves-city-post-2681803.aspx

Doug Harman is in the hot seat.

Thanks for clarifying.Though I can't say it makes me feel an more confident.

[Major Isewater]

On ‎01‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 09:21, Red Right Hand said:

He`s been on the money before.

 

and not just the money 

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I body swerved this thread as the title just gave me a bad feeling, however some very interesting stuff.

I think it was pointed out, comments made although accurate from one perspective could/ would be refuted from another. But if you put a few things together, perhaps a little truth comes out. 

Either way accademic now! The prices have gone up and SL holds the purse strings, regardless of blame and whether he likes it or not!

enjoy the ride people, it's never a dull moment at our club!

I swerved to avoid a child last night and fell off the couch .

[Major Isewater]

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 03:23, leadman said:

is the 15k a week still in place???

 

You offering your services ?

[Sargent Pepper]

Even if TM is right about the Maguire & Gray deals, how does effect the many other bids we made for players? Some in the public domain and some not? How would that effect those. The board to blame again? 

What about the the Fredericks debacle? That looked a good deal. What went wrong there? If we are to believe another bit of tittle tattle then that should have been handled much better by the footballing staff.

[cityexile]

Some very good posts that are thought provoking in this thread. 

Whilst I am now in the undecided camp, it is clear there are articulate views both ways. Rightly or wrongly, it is a results business, and would like at the very least to see another formation tried. Changing nothing is not low risk right now. 

We are at the stage where another couple of bad results will see the pressure only increase, whatever the reasons for and against.

[Flagon]

So if DG said he'd join for 19k and he's now not getting much game time at Palace do we bite the bullet and go in again or don't bother because we are near the bottom and he would be unlikely to join on that basis instead now.

[leadman]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

You offering your services ?

couldn't afford too

[ralphindevon]

Reading through this thread is like reading a crime/spy novel, I can't wait until the end to find out exactly who did it. Or didn't do it.

Has there ever been a time in the clubs history where the gap between club and fans is so wide? The official site is rubbish, the Bristol Sport site offers nothing, the press admit they can't write certain things they know.

I feel like a North Korean playing dominoes with mates, speculating what the truth might actually be with the goings on of our leaders.

[Bristol Rob]

On Saturday, January 02, 2016 at 02:23, leadman said:

is the 15k a week still in place???

 

What 15k a week thing? I don't recall the club ever announcing a maximum salary (or indeed any salary info).

Have I missed an announcement?

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Reading through this thread is like reading a crime/spy novel, I can't wait until the end to find out exactly who did it. Or didn't do it.

Has there ever been a time in the clubs history where the gap between club and fans is so wide? The official site is rubbish, the Bristol Sport site offers nothing, the press admit they can't write certain things they know.

I feel like a North Korean playing dominoes with mates, speculating what the truth might actually be with the goings on of our leaders.

If you were, you`d probably be much more in the loop than us poor sods. Still, we do love a good conspiracy theory don`t we?

[YorkshireSection]

So it appeared that for whatever reason we lost out on certain already named players.

I just wonder if our budget was large enough to allow the signing of a quality keeper and midfielder to partner Korey.

If the answer is actually no, then with McQuire in defence and Gray up front I'd argue we'd still be struggling and not far off where we are now, I guess nobody really knows.

I know what I believe and from reading Harry's account I don't think he's far off, but the role of agents must not be underestimated in this hoohaa either, put the two together and add that we are a small club in a big pond and the truth is nearly there.

If this can't be put on the past then everyone at BCFC will suffer, unless of course they jump ship, hmmmmmmmm

[havanatopia]

On 12/31/2015 at 17:41, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

 

As its New Years Eve... I will share with you 'My Opinion' on the subject..... people you don't have to believe me and neither will I name my sources, so save yourselves posting 100 times asking for them.

Nogbad is correct in what he says above!

This happened twice on big deals which led to them big scuppered and then being turned down. The two main targets of the Summer!!

Both deals were agreed in principal at the end of May.

The first deal scuppered was Harry Maguire, KB & SC had negotiated the deal to sign HM from Hull, a fee of £2.5 Million was agreed, personal terms agreed.

The second deal scuppered was Andre Gray, again KB & SC had negotiated a deal to sign AG from Brentford for £4.5 Million and £14k a week.

The deals were presented to JP who discusses them with SL

SL has the final say on all signings.

Beginning of June SC & KB go on holiday for 3 weeks and 2 weeks respectively. During this time JP & SL decide to negotiate the HM deal as they think they can get a better deal. They offer £1.25 million to Hull. Hull's response is that BCFC are trying the micky.... the deal had been agreed and now the club are trying to get him on the cheap. Hull's response is, you can buy HM but the price was then £4 Million and there was no negotiation. Deal falls through.

Next up is the Andre Gray deal, as mentioned above the deal was all agreed in principal by the end of May, this deal was scuppered due to SL/JP deciding to 'wait' on the deal, they believed that he was valued at £3 Million and were prepared to play cat and mouse with Brentford in order to get him cheaper. June passes and we are still waiting it out. In the mean time Burnley come sniffing but with no firm offers. We then try again at the end of July but Brentford are happy to hold out and tell BCFC that the price is now £8 Million. Andre Gray is now reluctant to move to us as we held out on the deal and were not offering any more than £14k a week. 

Burnley then offer £6 Million fee, which is agreed. They agree personal terms of £26k a week and £3k a week in bonuses. Deal dead for BCFC.

This then sends the board into panic..... Enter the Dwight Gayle saga.

The deal was £9 Million and was made up of two parts. the first part was would see CPFC buyout the sell on clause of YB, they value him at between £15-£20 Million. Our sell on clause is 20 %, Both clubs negotiated that the sell on clause was worth £3.5 Million, so BCFC would pay £5.5 Million adding in the sell on clause would take the deal to £9 Million. The deal fell down through our wage structure. DG is on £21k a week at CPFC, BCFC offered £14k a week, DG said he would sign for £19k a week as he would receive a % of the transfer fee. SL/JP would not break the wage structure which is capped at £15k a week for any one player. Deal Dead.

That leaves us at square one with none of our main targets secured, in a nut shell the above is what led to our disastrous transfer window in the Summer!!

 

 

Great insight TM, thanks for sharing.

Well, the dust has settled on the Steve Cotterill era and Andre Gray is the highest scorer in the Championship. As I recall he was in or around that top spot last year for Brentford.

I have read this thread through for the first time and one I pick up on is Harry's suggesting there is perhaps another side to the story; there are always other 'interpretations' and 'nuances' but i tend to accept what you TM have said on the fees and wages having been agreed. It beggars belief the players were not then rushed through for signature. Why would they delay? ;- Renegotiation stacks up. There can be no other explanation for failure if we assume your facts are correct and I have no reason to doubt them at all certainly based on your previous posts. 

Nobody but SL would have sanctioned a re-negotiation or a 'finalising of a deal' if that is how he/the board will paint it. Pelling was merely the messenger. Whichever way you cut and slice it now they certainly look rather silly when we see Grey banging the goals in, including against us, and who is now worth, i would suggest, at least double what we were originally prepared to pay. 

And in the small community that is English football word spreads like wildfire; no wonder players do not want to sign for us and why managers are reluctant to come, certainly of the ilk we desperately need. Somebody mentioned Moyes will not come because he cannot work with SL.. perhaps we have our answer why that might be; they may very well be friends but that might be overshadowed. As we inexorably creep back towards League 1 the philosophy has to change and proven to have been; I hope Mark Ashton is that initial clear signal that it has.

Delaying of a high profile manager, which is entirely of the clubs making, is going to hurt us in the meantime and I see no evidence that Pembo will keep us up; blaming the mentality of the players in being overawed at playing at Elland Road is poor, very poor.

 

[Major Isewater]

22 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Great insight TM, thanks for sharing.

Well, the dust has settled on the Steve Cotterill era and Andre Gray is the highest scorer in the Championship. As I recall he was in or around that top spot last year for Brentford.

I have read this thread through for the first time and one I pick up on is Harry's suggesting there is perhaps another side to the story; there are always other 'interpretations' and 'nuances' but i tend to accept what you TM have said on the fees and wages having been agreed. It beggars belief the players were not then rushed through for signature. Why would they delay? ;- Renegotiation stacks up. There can be no other explanation for failure if we assume your facts are correct and I have no reason to doubt them at all certainly based on your previous posts. 

Nobody but SL would have sanctioned a re-negotiation or a 'finalising of a deal' if that is how he/the board will paint it. Pelling was merely the messenger. Whichever way you cut and slice it now they certainly look rather silly when we see Grey banging the goals in, including against us, and who is now worth, i would suggest, at least double what we were originally prepared to pay. 

And in the small community that is English football word spreads like wildfire; no wonder players do not want to sign for us and why managers are reluctant to come, certainly of the ilk we desperately need. Somebody mentioned Moyes will not come because he cannot work with SL.. perhaps we have our answer why that might be; they may very well be friends but that might be overshadowed. As we inexorably creep back towards League 1 the philosophy has to change and proven to have been; I hope Mark Ashton is that initial clear signal that it has.

Delaying of a high profile manager, which is entirely of the clubs making, is going to hurt us in the meantime and I see no evidence that Pembo will keep us up; blaming the mentality of the players in being overawed at playing at Elland Road is poor, very poor.

 

Agree , they were n't  'overawed ' by Wembley !

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

41 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Great insight TM, thanks for sharing.

Well, the dust has settled on the Steve Cotterill era and Andre Gray is the highest scorer in the Championship. As I recall he was in or around that top spot last year for Brentford.

I have read this thread through for the first time and one I pick up on is Harry's suggesting there is perhaps another side to the story; there are always other 'interpretations' and 'nuances' but i tend to accept what you TM have said on the fees and wages having been agreed. It beggars belief the players were not then rushed through for signature. Why would they delay? ;- Renegotiation stacks up. There can be no other explanation for failure if we assume your facts are correct and I have no reason to doubt them at all certainly based on your previous posts. 

Nobody but SL would have sanctioned a re-negotiation or a 'finalising of a deal' if that is how he/the board will paint it. Pelling was merely the messenger. Whichever way you cut and slice it now they certainly look rather silly when we see Grey banging the goals in, including against us, and who is now worth, i would suggest, at least double what we were originally prepared to pay. 

And in the small community that is English football word spreads like wildfire; no wonder players do not want to sign for us and why managers are reluctant to come, certainly of the ilk we desperately need. Somebody mentioned Moyes will not come because he cannot work with SL.. perhaps we have our answer why that might be; they may very well be friends but that might be overshadowed. As we inexorably creep back towards League 1 the philosophy has to change and proven to have been; I hope Mark Ashton is that initial clear signal that it has.

Delaying of a high profile manager, which is entirely of the clubs making, is going to hurt us in the meantime and I see no evidence that Pembo will keep us up; blaming the mentality of the players in being overawed at playing at Elland Road is poor, very poor.

 

I still dont think Gray would've come to us regardless... why leave a club who made the Championship playoffs for a club who were just promoted to the Championship?

The Burnley move made sense and his comments about why he chose Burnley over us for footballing reasons also made sense. Whether we could've offered him what he wanted is irrelevant, every player wants to play at the highest level possible and he'd have more chance to play in the PL with Burnley than us at this current point in time.

Like the Gayle saga, it just seems we are flogging a dead horse over and over again... Its got nothing to do with the clubs stature within circles or how it is ran... if it has, its a very small part

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

I have read this thread through for the first time and one I pick up on is Harry's suggesting there is perhaps another side to the story; there are always other 'interpretations' and 'nuances' but i tend to accept what you TM have said on the fees and wages having been agreed. It beggars belief the players were not then rushed through for signature. Why would they delay? ;- Renegotiation stacks up. There can be no other explanation for failure if we assume your facts are correct and I have no reason to doubt them at all certainly based on your previous posts. 

Nobody but SL would have sanctioned a re-negotiation or a 'finalising of a deal' if that is how he/the board will paint it. Pelling was merely the messenger. Whichever way you cut and slice it now they certainly look rather silly when we see Grey banging the goals in, including against us, and who is now worth, i would suggest, at least double what we were originally prepared to pay. 

What you have to ask yourself though is why would SL have agreed to transfer fees and wages for Gray and Maguire and then a few weeks later tried to renegotiate the deals downward? SL has been involved in football long enough and has been involved in dozens and dozens of transfers to know that this is not the done thing and is highly risky.

The way TM's post reads is that KB and SC negotiated the initial deals so we can assume that these were not 'signed off' by SL. If that is the case then the deals were not 'agreed' and why were they off doing deals that didn't fall within the clubs financial structure?

As for the Gayle deal, SL said on RB that we knew what he was on at Palace and that we could afford his wages. So if TM is right on that one then SL has told a bare-faced lie. Personally I suspect that even if we did give Gayle the wages he wanted he was probably never keen on joining. Unrealistic target.

[havanatopia]

57 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

What you have to ask yourself though is why would SL have agreed to transfer fees and wages for Gray and Maguire and then a few weeks later tried to renegotiate the deals downward? SL has been involved in football long enough and has been involved in dozens and dozens of transfers to know that this is not the done thing and is highly risky.

The way TM's post reads is that KB and SC negotiated the initial deals so we can assume that these were not 'signed off' by SL. If that is the case then the deals were not 'agreed' and why were they off doing deals that didn't fall within the clubs financial structure?

As for the Gayle deal, SL said on RB that we knew what he was on at Palace and that we could afford his wages. So if TM is right on that one then SL has told a bare-faced lie. Personally I suspect that even if we did give Gayle the wages he wanted he was probably never keen on joining. Unrealistic target.

Why negotiate downward indeed; i cannot for the life off me get my head around SC and KB talking numbers if they had not had limitation instructions in the first place. They simply would not have done.

Gayle, as i believe TM alluded, was a panic move to try and recover the transfer window. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Read this thread in full at last. Very interesting stuff especially by Tetbury. The board, the club whoever really didn't deliver it seems...and based on a lot in here, so avoidable too.

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

What you have to ask yourself though is why would SL have agreed to transfer fees and wages for Gray and Maguire and then a few weeks later tried to renegotiate the deals downward? SL has been involved in football long enough and has been involved in dozens and dozens of transfers to know that this is not the done thing and is highly risky.

The way TM's post reads is that KB and SC negotiated the initial deals so we can assume that these were not 'signed off' by SL. If that is the case then the deals were not 'agreed' and why were they off doing deals that didn't fall within the clubs financial structure?

As for the Gayle deal, SL said on RB that we knew what he was on at Palace and that we could afford his wages. So if TM is right on that one then SL has told a bare-faced lie. Personally I suspect that even if we did give Gayle the wages he wanted he was probably never keen on joining. Unrealistic target.

As I pointed out to spud, who was making a similar point to you, but on another thread, this seems to make no sense to me regarding SC "over stepping" his financial remit in respect of Grey, bearing in mind this was all going on under the radar. 

If this was the case then why would SL, obviously not happy about being put in a situation where he felt a deal was too costly, then publicly try to continue it at a much greater cost?