Where next for Cotterill?

[RedLionLad]

11 minutes ago, hortonred said:

Well it is a funny one.After our remarkable promotion season who could have dreamed it would end up as it did with Cotterill. So I guess I would not wanted to have missed a season like we had.But his style, decision making and complete unwillingness to change things when they were clearly not working  meant that I was genuinely delighted he went.At  the moment the utter disaster that was his season in the Championship severely impacts on the joy of his promotion season.

Bit of a tough one to answer but hope it makes some sense..

There were a lot of people who took pity on us for employing him and yet, look at what he did for us. I saw some of the most enjoyable games of football last season, and probably the best since the First Division period. Better than the Wilson and Johnson periods, for sure.

Yes, his formation was his eventual downfall, but other team issues off the pitch were probably out of his control.

[Lrrr]

Still think Sheffield Utd would be a good club for him, and they have to be annoyed they're likely missing out on the play offs  again.

[grubby]

The main trouble that I and other city fans in my pub had with SC was him being unwilling to change. His subs were rarely until well after 70/80 min and it was great to see the duo and then LJ not afraid to make early changes when something wasn't working. Subs are only effective when given a chance to affect the game. I agree with other posters and think a "big" league 1 club would be perfect fit, Sheff Utd being case in mind. Pompey didn't work once for him and can't see him going back.

We should all remember the unforgettable season and our domination of league 1, with the post xmas period the most enjoyable , other than the old league 1 days, in my time.

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Surely SC will be a big contender for this? Great record at getting promotion from L1.

Well he's got promotion from L1 once - is that enough to call it a great record?

[BCFC Jordan]

Has to be Sheffield Utd if they have any sense.

[AshtonGreat]

4 hours ago, hortonred said:

Wherever he ends up it is great it is not with us.And I pity whoever gets him.

Arguably our most successful manager for 40 years, but ok

[havanatopia]

I will maintain my view that had his squad been strengthened in the appropriate manner close season City would be celebrating a far more successful season than the one we have just had to endure. Cotterill would still be in place and we would be talking about strengthening again with his exciting 'euro style' wing back system.

We can argue until the cats come home about who is fundamentally to blame for the fiasco of the close season but it is pretty well documented and I come to the conclusion that his position was fundamentally undermined which then, ultimately, became untenable.

We look forward now under Lee Johnson and hope he learns fast on the job which I believe, with his good team in place to support him, has every chance of adding to the undoubted success of the Steve Cotterill era for which we will always have huge appreciation for. When one day he returns to Ashton Gate, managing another team, he will receive and certainly deserves a welcome warmer than any current manager in the game.

[samo II]

56 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

I will maintain my view that had his squad been strengthened in the appropriate manner close season City would be celebrating a far more successful season than the one we have just had to endure. Cotterill would still be in place and we would be talking about strengthening again with his exciting 'euro style' wing back system.

We can argue until the cats come home about who is fundamentally to blame for the fiasco of the close season but it is pretty well documented and I come to the conclusion that his position was fundamentally undermined which then, ultimately, became untenable.

We look forward now under Lee Johnson and hope he learns fast on the job which I believe, with his good team in place to support him, has every chance of adding to the undoubted success of the Steve Cotterill era for which we will always have huge appreciation for. When one day he returns to Ashton Gate, managing another team, he will receive and certainly deserves a welcome warmer than any current manager in the game.

I think is post reflects my postion too.

I can't speak to what happened to leave us with a single permenant signing (not counting here-then-gone again Fredericks) after the summer, and bizarre situation with the likes of Hamer and Cox coming in then going back with little time to impress, or the embarrassing situation with SC saying we'd like to sign Bennett, only for him to be a Blackburn player moments later.  But it's clear something happened, and it undermined our efforts.

Who knows what SC could have done with some extra personnel, but what's done is done.

LJ has come in, kept us up, and now has the chance (and hopefully the backing) to validate the decision of the board.  I'm optimistic that with what I can imagine is more leeway than SC in terms of wages, thanks to the new stadium, we might see the right players arrive to help us progress, but only time will tell.

And none of that does anything to diminish the astounding achievements of SC in leading us to a lower league and cup double last season; eternally grateful, and if I were a Sheffield United board member, I'd be in the phone begging him to come in and lead them out of the third tier.

[Loco Rojo]

I was going to suggest Peterbrough but then remembered Ferguson is still knocking about so that job'll be gone :-) 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Agree with Sheff Utd, he`d be great for them. Coventry would be another good option as they`ve blown it again this season.

Or he could got to Walsall if they don`t go up - after all, he`s got form in clearing up SOD`s messes!

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Well he's got promotion from L1 once - is that enough to call it a great record?

Good point, what I meant really was lower league record.

[Carey 6]

Peterborough or Sheffield United would be a great fit. Hope to see him do well again.

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

I was going to suggest Peterbrough but then remembered Ferguson is still knocking about so that job'll be gone :-) 

Does anyone really think Ferguson will end up back there a third time? I suppose anything is possible with that mob. He does seem to be a one trick pony does Fergs Jr as he is proving yet again with his destruction of Donny.

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, hortonred said:

Do you wish we still had him ?

The two below sum up my thoughts.

3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I will maintain my view that had his squad been strengthened in the appropriate manner close season City would be celebrating a far more successful season than the one we have just had to endure. Cotterill would still be in place and we would be talking about strengthening again with his exciting 'euro style' wing back system.

We can argue until the cats come home about who is fundamentally to blame for the fiasco of the close season but it is pretty well documented and I come to the conclusion that his position was fundamentally undermined which then, ultimately, became untenable.

We look forward now under Lee Johnson and hope he learns fast on the job which I believe, with his good team in place to support him, has every chance of adding to the undoubted success of the Steve Cotterill era for which we will always have huge appreciation for. When one day he returns to Ashton Gate, managing another team, he will receive and certainly deserves a welcome warmer than any current manager in the game.

 

1 hour ago, samo II said:

I think is post reflects my postion too.

I can't speak to what happened to leave us with a single permenant signing (not counting here-then-gone again Fredericks) after the summer, and bizarre situation with the likes of Hamer and Cox coming in then going back with little time to impress, or the embarrassing situation with SC saying we'd like to sign Bennett, only for him to be a Blackburn player moments later.  But it's clear something happened, and it undermined our efforts.

Who knows what SC could have done with some extra personnel, but what's done is done.

LJ has come in, kept us up, and now has the chance (and hopefully the backing) to validate the decision of the board.  I'm optimistic that with what I can imagine is more leeway than SC in terms of wages, thanks to the new stadium, we might see the right players arrive to help us progress, but only time will tell.

And none of that does anything to diminish the astounding achievements of SC in leading us to a lower league and cup double last season; eternally grateful, and if I were a Sheffield United board member, I'd be in the phone begging him to come in and lead them out of the third tier.

Most in here will know I was (am) a fan of Cotts, and I didn't subscribe to the hoofball style that a lot thought he'd bring.

Dont get me wrong, he appeared to act petulantly throughout this season and made his position untenable by the end.

We don't know what happened behind the scenes, there are those on here who have an insight, but if Cotts was let down, I would rather he had resigned.  Maybe he offered to.

I would like to think that with Tomlin, Matthews and Odemwingie, he would too have kept us up.  Even Zach Clough has done well over the past month for Bolton, so the team were spotting talent.  Wasn't Tomlin on his list too?

I am right behind Johnson, and have been impressed so far, but to some extent you are only as good as your players.  Let's hope he can identify the right players and alongside Ashton, can bring them to this club.

Never a dull moment!

[bs3]

3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I will maintain my view that had his squad been strengthened in the appropriate manner close season City would be celebrating a far more successful season than the one we have just had to endure. Cotterill would still be in place and we would be talking about strengthening again with his exciting 'euro style' wing back system.

We can argue until the cats come home about who is fundamentally to blame for the fiasco of the close season but it is pretty well documented and I come to the conclusion that his position was fundamentally undermined which then, ultimately, became untenable.

We look forward now under Lee Johnson and hope he learns fast on the job which I believe, with his good team in place to support him, has every chance of adding to the undoubted success of the Steve Cotterill era for which we will always have huge appreciation for. When one day he returns to Ashton Gate, managing another team, he will receive and certainly deserves a welcome warmer than any current manager in the game.

Well said mate.

Far to many on here who would like to rewrite the history of SC at Bristol City.

 

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, bs3 said:

Well said mate.

Far to many on here who would like to rewrite the history of SC at Bristol City.

 

Thank you although i must apologise for the use of the word 'fundamentally' on two occasions in the same sentence. That was just poor and almost as poor as the horrible red shorts it looks like we will have to endure next season. Oh look I've done it again; fundamentally naff!

[Eddie Hitler]

Echoing much of the above SC is a good manager but wants the team to play in particular way. If he has the players that can do this then it works brilliantly, everybody knows what they're doing and how to do it, if he doesn't have these players then it doesn't work and he won't or can't adapt.

In our L1 season he had those players, if we had improved the necessary positions in the summer then we would have stormed the Championship too.

We didn't buy those players and, with the benefit of hindsight, as soon as we knew that we weren't going to buy them then we should have changed manager to someone who was more flexible about fitting the formation to the actual team.

I genuinely think that with SL backing SC as he backed GJ we would have stood a very good chance of starting next season in the Prem.  Although FFP probably prevented that happening irrespective of anything else.

[Alessandro]

I have no doubt SC, with the right financial backing (he probably had the best budget of any team in league 1 when we did the 'double') he can do a great job again in league 1/2.

The problem for Steve now is his record in the Championship is pretty poor. I put the win ratio stats in another thread:

Stoke 23%, Burnley 34%, Portsmouth 29%, Forest 32% and City 15%.

His excuse here this season was all too often "we were unlucky" - funny as in Roy Keane's autobiography he talks about going to SC's office after a Sunderland Burnley game and SC was saying the exact same thing to Keane.

Either SC is the world's most unlucky manager or needs to reexamine his approach for the Championship.

 

[BCFC Jordan]

13 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I will maintain my view that had his squad been strengthened in the appropriate manner close season City would be celebrating a far more successful season than the one we have just had to endure. Cotterill would still be in place and we would be talking about strengthening again with his exciting 'euro style' wing back system.

We can argue until the cats come home about who is fundamentally to blame for the fiasco of the close season but it is pretty well documented and I come to the conclusion that his position was fundamentally undermined which then, ultimately, became untenable.

We look forward now under Lee Johnson and hope he learns fast on the job which I believe, with his good team in place to support him, has every chance of adding to the undoubted success of the Steve Cotterill era for which we will always have huge appreciation for. When one day he returns to Ashton Gate, managing another team, he will receive and certainly deserves a welcome warmer than any current manager in the game.

 

This, absolutely this. Some people have very short memories.

 

All in the past now, though. I was a fan of LJ's appointment and he's done a good job steadying the ship up until now. Still a vast amount of work to be done and hopefully we can rectify the wrongs of last summer, in the summer forthcoming.

[Charliesboots]

England will be vacant in June.....

 

(been on the Benylin sorry)

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Alessandro said:

 

The problem for Steve now is his record in the Championship is pretty poor. I put the win ratio stats in another thread:

Stoke 23%, Burnley 34%, Portsmouth 29%, Forest 32% and City 15%.

 

Us aside, in the circumstances of each job, looks perfectly decent to me. Yes SC didn't work here, yes he got replaced, yes LJ has done better with last year's player of the season in this division; a player courted by Marseille weeks earlier and AM; but it's disingenuous that SC could or would not have done similar with the same players. And btw I was one happy with LJ pre-during-post appointment. I'm also not one who would back SC to the hilt, indeed he wrote his own epitath. But in many respects I feel that after what he achieved, that he was backed with just Kodjia on a perm in the summer is disgraceful and speaks volumes in itself. 

I reiterate I was happy with LJ at all times, pre and post his appointment, but I also said that for me if we stave of relegation the board should not feel vindicated for many of their mistakes. I stand by that. The board has much to learn and this upcoming summer will be a good yardstick. 

As for SC, a good manager, excellent at League One, a decent record at this level with basket case clubs and WHOLLY sold short by us this summer. To measure LJ against him would be to measure LJ without Tomlin, Odemwingie, Matthews, O Donnell...

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Us aside, in the circumstances of each job, looks perfectly decent to me. Yes SC didn't work here, yes he got replaced, yes LJ has done better with last year's player of the season in this division; a player courted by Marseille weeks earlier and AM; but it's disingenuous that SC could or would not have done similar with the same players. And btw I was one happy with LJ pre-during-post appointment. I'm also not one who would back SC to the hilt, indeed he wrote his own epitath. But in many respects I feel that after what he achieved, that he was backed with just Kodjia on a perm in the summer is disgraceful and speaks volumes in itself. 

I reiterate I was happy with LJ at all times, pre and post his appointment, but I also said that for me if we stave of relegation the board should not feel vindicated for many of their mistakes. I stand by that. The board has much to learn and this upcoming summer will be a good yardstick. 

As for SC, a good manager, excellent at League One, a decent record at this level with basket case clubs and WHOLLY sold short by us this summer. To measure LJ against him would be to measure LJ without Tomlin, Odemwingie, Matthews, O Donnell...

Yep, my thoughts too.

[Alessandro]

55 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Us aside, in the circumstances of each job, looks perfectly decent to me. Yes SC didn't work here, yes he got replaced, yes LJ has done better with last year's player of the season in this division; a player courted by Marseille weeks earlier and AM; but it's disingenuous that SC could or would not have done similar with the same players. And btw I was one happy with LJ pre-during-post appointment. I'm also not one who would back SC to the hilt, indeed he wrote his own epitath. But in many respects I feel that after what he achieved, that he was backed with just Kodjia on a perm in the summer is disgraceful and speaks volumes in itself. 

I reiterate I was happy with LJ at all times, pre and post his appointment, but I also said that for me if we stave of relegation the board should not feel vindicated for many of their mistakes. I stand by that. The board has much to learn and this upcoming summer will be a good yardstick. 

As for SC, a good manager, excellent at League One, a decent record at this level with basket case clubs and WHOLLY sold short by us this summer. To measure LJ against him would be to measure LJ without Tomlin, Odemwingie, Matthews, O Donnell...

I wasn't comparing LJ and SC on this occasion, but if you do, of course LJ's stats back him up, at the moment. I would argue though that SC's win ratio's are not 'perfectly decent' - Burnley and Stoke have gone onto greater things, but he certainly had a tough job at Portsmouth and perhaps at Forest. I honestly believe, on several occasions now, SC has shown himself too one dimensional at Championship level.

With regards to him being backed by the board, one thing is clear, there was some serious **** up behind the scenes last summer, rumours of which have been well discussed. Fault? Who knows, but there are more than whispers that SC may well have had a hand in creating the mess. No-one, including SC have spoken out in public since, so we have to read of that what we can. But to lay blame entirely on the board and say he wasn't backed, is from what i've seen, heard and read, wrong, IMO. They are of course, not without blame.

With regards to players, I don't see this measurement idea, it's too simplistic. Steve signed O'Donnell for starters. Matthews and Golbourne - he wouldn't have played as he used 5-3-2, plus he did have Elliot Bennett. Odemwingie has provided depth sure, but whats it been, 3/4 appearances in LJ's 16(?) or so games, he has hardly been 'pivotal'. Useful none the less.

Tomlin's impact has been great, but Korey Smith (player of the season till then) has been injured for a large period of LJ's games, so that even things out. To back this idea up, the team vs. Blackburn had three players different to Steve's last team. The already mentioned fullbacks and Tomlin. So are we a one man team?

So I would argue that, even with the inclusion of these players, the transformation of the team's results with largely the same players has been pretty massive since he left, it's hard not to compare and see how wrong SC got it this season.

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I wasn't comparing LJ and SC on this occasion, but if you do, of course LJ's stats back him up, at the moment. I would argue though that SC's win ratio's are not 'perfectly decent' - Burnley and Stoke have gone onto greater things, but he certainly had a tough job at Portsmouth and perhaps at Forest. I honestly believe, on several occasions now, SC has shown himself too one dimensional at Championship level.

With regards to him being backed by the board, one thing is clear, there was some serious **** up behind the scenes last summer, rumours of which have been well discussed. Fault? Who knows, but there are more than whispers that SC may well have had a hand in creating the mess. No-one, including SC have spoken out in public since, so we have to read of that what we can. But to lay blame entirely on the board and say he wasn't backed, is from what i've seen, heard and read, wrong, IMO. They are of course, not without blame.

With regards to players, I don't see this measurement idea, it's too simplistic. Steve signed O'Donnell for starters. Matthews and Golbourne - he wouldn't have played as he used 5-3-2, plus he did have Elliot Bennett. Odemwingie has provided depth sure, but whats it been, 3/4 appearances in LJ's 16(?) or so games, he has hardly been 'pivotal'. Useful none the less.

Tomlin's impact has been great, but Korey Smith (player of the season till then) has been injured for a large period of LJ's games, so that even things out. To back this idea up, the team vs. Blackburn had three players different to Steve's last team. The already mentioned fullbacks and Tomlin. So are we a one man team?

So I would argue that, even with the inclusion of these players, the transformation of the team's results with largely the same players has been pretty massive since he left, it's hard not to compare and see how wrong SC got it this season.

 

Think we agree on many points, but I'm less condemning. As for Burnley and Stoke going on to greater things; Stoke did by going very one dimensional, Burnley under SC were a selling club; hence why there particularly I would say reasonable. 

Re summer agree, can't blame the board wholly; but then, on the other hand if SC was part of the problem they should've acted sooner in releasing him no? The board are always and ultimately damned if they do and don't. 

As for players see where you're coming from and not something I'd considered re Smith. Odemwingie may have limited starts but some pivotal goals - Rotherham - so I wouldn't underplay his impact. Tomlin too Fulham for instance; two goals which could have changed a lot. I'd say he's been more influential than going 4 at the back. 

The rest is conjecture; not dismissing your opinion as perfectly reasonably based. Mine, however, is simply with this squad SC would've delivered a more impressive points tally than in the games he was here and to compare him and LJ is apples and pears. LJ - again I stress I back and did when nonsense like pearson and Moyes was spouted - had other factors such as new manager bounce etc.

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Think we agree on many points, but I'm less condemning. As for Burnley and Stoke going on to greater things; Stoke did by going very one dimensional, Burnley under SC were a selling club; hence why there particularly I would say reasonable. 

Re summer agree, can't blame the board wholly; but then, on the other hand if SC was part of the problem they should've acted sooner in releasing him no? The board are always and ultimately damned if they do and don't. 

As for players see where you're coming from and not something I'd considered re Smith. Odemwingie may have limited starts but some pivotal goals - Rotherham - so I wouldn't underplay his impact. Tomlin too Fulham for instance; two goals which could have changed a lot. I'd say he's been more influential than going 4 at the back. 

The rest is conjecture; not dismissing your opinion as perfectly reasonably based. Mine, however, is simply with this squad SC would've delivered a more impressive points tally than in the games he was here and to compare him and LJ is apples and pears. LJ - again I stress I back and did when nonsense like pearson and Moyes was spouted - had other factors such as new manager bounce etc.

All fair points there. It's been a funny old season, plenty of if's and but's and should've and could've. Certainly a lot to talk about! All in all I'm relieved we turned the ship around, I was worried for a time. I look forward to a more successful close season, this time under Mark Ashton, who did a good job in Jan so let's hope for more of the same!

[NickJ]

12 hours ago, bs3 said:

 

Far to many on here who would like to rewrite the history of SC at Bristol City.

 

Massively agree with that.

It's because he is disliked, apparently.

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Massively agree with that.

It's because he is disliked, apparently.

Absolutely. I was completely in favour of his sacking but he was responsible for the best football I've ever seen us play and the best season I've ever seen us have. I'd back him to do great where ever he ends up next.

 

[Alessandro]

12 hours ago, bs3 said:

Well said mate.

Far to many on here who would like to rewrite the history of SC at Bristol City.

 

And far too many on here mistake criticism of SC this season with a wish to rewrite history.

Reading back through this and other similar threads, I along with what seems about 95% of City fans recognise and thank SC's for his achievements. I just simply think he has been found out on several occasions as a manager in the Championship, that has nothing to do with last season.

I think his next job will most likely be in league 1 and have absolutely no strong feelings either way about his future success.

[RedLionLad]

19 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Arguably our most successful manager for 40 years, but ok

I think GJ might stake a claim for that title.

[Guest]

Drive about 300 yds down the road, turn left, go past house with the red door, turn right and then ask the guy in the donkey jacket for further directions.