McInnes on City - uncomfortable reading...

[cidered abroad]

So if McInnes came in to a club in total disarray, when did the rot start or had it always been like that?

Gary Johnson? Danny Wilson? John Ward? Joe Jordan second time? Osman? Pulis ? Denis Smith? Lumsden? Joe Jordan first time?

I cannot believe that it was Terry Cooper or Jordan who started the downhill slide. But by the time Danny Wilson arrived it was surely well entrenched with his Galacticos?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

We've been far from a shambles

we are actually putting up and players are actually trying the hardest compare that to when we got relegated last time when the team gave up after 20 games and we were regularly 2 or 3 down after 25 minutes

your expectations are far too high, 

i'm sorry Monkeh SL's expectations are too high as per his speech when he sacked SC.

Most fans expectations for this season was comfortable mid table, but sadly the summer put paid to that.

 

[Ivorguy]

This is all so depressing

Hopefully SL and The Board have learnt from a long catalogue of failure

If we go down serious questions have to be asked not of the players or MA or LJ but of SL and Bristol Sport.  I am fearful that we are in a cycle of recurring failure that won't change until SL and Bristol Sport go away.  Yet of course we know they won't. 

But ......

They merely have, in my opinion, the rest of this season for MA and LJ to save them from the tribunal of fans' opinion.   They would do well to consider the Liverpool situation.  Fans do have power.

Hopefully it isn't too late and we will survive in The Championship and LJ and MA will sort things out on the field in the summer

[bend it like brian]

3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

So if McInnes came in to a club in total disarray, when did the rot start or had it always been like that?

Gary Johnson? Danny Wilson? John Ward? Joe Jordan second time? Osman? Pulis ? Denis Smith? Lumsden? Joe Jordan first time?

I cannot believe that it was Terry Cooper or Jordan who started the downhill slide. But by the time Danny Wilson arrived it was surely well entrenched with his Galacticos?

although you have to question sl for authorizing it

[SedRA]

32 minutes ago, screech said:

I don't disagree with much in the article, but we would all like to point the finger somewhere else rather than accept some of the blame for our sacking. Lets be fair, it was a mess, but his signings like Jody Morris and Richard Foster added to the crap.

I was in Glasgow a couple of weeks ago and started chatting to the taxi driver about football. I told him I supported Bristol City and he asked "didn't you have Richard Foster for a while?" I said "yes".

He then laughed for quite a long time. 

[City1970]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

Didn't see this posted anywherJoyinteresting reading -  from The Times:

“I needed simplicity after Bristol City, which was an absolute ... I can’t say it,” he says. “After Bristol I just needed to strip everything right back, and do the job the way any football manager is supposed to do his job.
“Bristol City had fought relegation for three or four seasons prior to me. I kept the club up in 2012 and, looking back now, that was when I was in my strongest position there. At the end of that season I should have been kicking and screaming to finally get things done properly at that club.
“We had players haemorrhaging money at Ashton Gate, earning 14k or 15k a week which the club couldn’t afford. But I wasn’t convinced the club wanted to deal with the situation. I had four different managers’ signings in the dressing room. It was incredible.
“I remember one of my first days at training; all these players parked their cars and came over the hill towards me in their red training gear. There was maybe 40 or 50 of them — it was like watching Zulus coming towards me. I had to try to ship loads of them out on loan and get the squad down to an acceptable level.
“We managed to keep the club up in 2012, having been way adrift when I arrived there. The board had said, ‘if we go down with Derek McInnes, we’ll come back with Derek McInnes’. I had regiments of players I had to move on, but these guys had nowhere to go. Bristol City was Utopia to them — they were on great money. The club was vastly over-paying its players by thousands of pounds per week.
“Everything at Bristol was a mess, including some of the posturing for power in the boardroom. That’s why I said, at Aberdeen, I just needed simplicity. I needed to get back to doing what a football manager does.
“Bristol City taught me one key lesson — when things are going your way, and you are hot, then insist there and then on getting things done. Because it can all change so quickly. You go from a king to a clown.”

 

I think he became a clown when he signed Foster and Jody Morris who must have been earning a fortune.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

2 minutes ago, City1970 said:

I think he became a clown when he signed Foster and Jody Morris who must have been earning a fortune.

Morris played one game in Carey's testimonial against the gas and the rest of the time organising nights out with Rio Ferdinand 

[Andy082005]

32 minutes ago, hortonred said:

McInnes fails to mention that he learnt he was not good enough to manage in England and went running back to the mickey mouse leagues in Scotland.But it is so much easier to blame others.

Do you ever wonder why....no manager that comes here, succeeds at this level?

We change managers, we change players and we change staff.....nothing ever changes. Whats the one thing that stays the same?

He criticises the board and I tell you what...that is where the problem lies. This club is an absolute shambles behind the scenes. 

As long as we have this owner and board, we will never succeed at this level 

[Antman]

It's interesting to read a manager breaking ranks and telling it like he see's it. it sadly reinforces the suspicion I have held about the poor way this club has been run for some time.

the idea that somehow now it's all ok makes does me smile. SL has had his hand on the tiller for many many years. these stupid wages were / are his responsibility and are part of the reason we are unable to build a lean and effective team, allied to some shocking appointments and poor business dealings.

Do you think the Coppell story would read any different? or SOD? i suspect not too different

the common denominator here is Steve Lansdown I'm afraid.

If, as some posts on this thread would imply, all is now rosy at AG, then I'm sure we will see a roaring race up the leagues and onto long lasting football glory, carried on by a shrewd blend of business acumen and a lean mean playing machine.....

 

me? I have a lower bar when it comes to expectations I'm afraid.

 

[Antman]

2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

As long as we have this owner and board, we will never succeed at this level 

sadly too true, however the current board is nothing more than a bunch of nodding dogs and cannot even be called a board.

[Devereux]

 

Would be fascinating (excruciating?) to hear what Cotts would say right now if he could be so honest publically....,

hopefully things have changed, certainly sounds as if our days of paying over-inflated wages may be passed.

 

[BCFC Jordan]

Most of us have recognised the board is a bit of a shambles for a long while now. It's no coicidence we've had 5 relegation battles in 6 seasons, but the manager is always the fall guy.

 

I'd bet that SC, SOD and Coppell all hold similar views to Del's.

 

There's not a chance things have changed since then. This season has been the biggest shambles of them all.

[Mad Cyril]

Now I am confused. Do I express utter dismay at the board for paying inflated salaries to players in 2012, or express utter dismay at the board for not paying inflated salaries to potential players in 2015/16?

[Northern Red]

Not surprised in the slightest by what he's said. 

And yet there are still people who refuse to hold the board accountable for any of the club's problems and lay all of the blame at a succession of managers, a few of which have proved before and/or after their time at City that they aren't the clueless failures that they appeared to be whilst here. 

[CliftonCliff]

46 minutes ago, screech said:

I don't disagree with much in the article, but we would all like to point the finger somewhere else rather than accept some of the blame for our sacking. Lets be fair, it was a mess, but his signings like Jody Morris and Richard Foster added to the crap.

That's fair comment and point taken, but whilst he did make those errors of judgement, the bigger picture was that he was having to operate under near-impossible constraints (as was SOD subsequently). 

What he's basically saying is that the club was a basket case at that time and incompetently run, as you acknowledge, and whilst he of course has his own agenda, there won't be many on this forum who would seriously question that assessment.

Is it any better now? On the face of it, it would appear so, but in the same way that it's taken several years for this article to find its way on to the forum, we won't know for sure until we're a good way further down the road. Ashton aside, about whom it is too soon to judge, I remain unconvinced about the occupants of the boardroom and am of the mind that leopards don't change their spots. I've heard the phrase "lessons have been learned" enough times to last me a lifetime. We'll see.

[Fiale]

 

24 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Do you ever wonder why....no manager that comes here, succeeds at this level?

We change managers, we change players and we change staff.....nothing ever changes. Whats the one thing that stays the same?

He criticises the board and I tell you what...that is where the problem lies. This club is an absolute shambles behind the scenes. 

As long as we have this owner and board, we will never succeed at this level 

 

I think the club is now in the right place, it started under McInnes and carried through with SoD - the club tore up their ideas when they appointed SC but they seem to have realised it was a mistake and have reverted back to the plan appointing Ashton and a HeadCoach.

 

McInnes and Sod had to cut the playing staff, wages, had to shift players to free up wages for any new signings and wages as well as adapt to the new club "5 Pillars" get the Youth Academy set up, they were just swamped with a workload that was unreasonable when they should have just be coaching the first team - they are not business/finance men and should never have been in that position. Thankfully we now seem to have the pieces in place, when/If Lee moves on I suspect Pemberton will become our next first team Headcoach, and Wade will move up to be his number 2, when Pemberton moves on the Wade will take over. If we can get that sort of continuity at the club, we just might stand a chance.

[Robin1988]

57 minutes ago, Spike said:

Reading this thread kind of sums up the issue with our fans for me, here it is in black and white the same thing many have suspected being made clear and what do many of our fans do...... look for ways to blame McInness. I swear some of our fans would rather just ignore the hard truths about this club and keep their rose tinted glasses on.

Better than I could've ever put it.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

Hahaha bitter bitter man.

I don't care how much of a shambles the club was, how many players we had when he came in, (surely you'd take a look at the squad you were about to manage). I'm sure McInnes was constrained, but let's not forget he had 2 million to spend and rather than invest in a competent defence he blew it on 2 forwards.

But why would he sign a good defender when he had the God Liam Fontaine available? His inability to drop him was possibly the worst managerial decision I have ever witnessed, and it happened week after week after week. Not to mention playing Jon Stead left mid and Ricky Foster (what a great signing by the way) in centre mid. Also who was that terrible winger Yannick Bolasie that he was too scared to play in the same side as Adomah?..

Awful manager. Stick to the SPL.

[spudski]

58 minutes ago, Spike said:

Reading this thread kind of sums up the issue with our fans for me, here it is in black and white the same thing many have suspected being made clear and what do many of our fans do...... look for ways to blame McInness. I swear some of our fans would rather just ignore the hard truths about this club and keep their rose tinted glasses on.

Bang on fella...the amount of times myself and a few others, were dragged over the coals for mentioning how badly we were run...it was unreal.

People kept saying we couldn't be that bad and that we are no different to any other teams...finally in the last year, it's all coming to a head.

the sooner people realise we have been a shambles and still are in many respects, the better. SL has got away with murder in the past, by throwing money at short term fix's.

[Olé]

I've given it an hour or two and am quite surprised no one has objected to DMCs comment that we had players on 14-15k a week. I've not been ITK since the start of the century, but a lot of people have been on here regularly declaring that (David James aside) we just don't go over 10k. Wage structure etc. Who is right?

By the way, if anyone is so moved by this exposé to want to wear a Derek McInnes RUN DMC t-shirt, I still have about sixty of the damn things propping up my pop-up warehouse of #SouthBristol gear. Just go to www.bsthree.co.uk (ha)

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, 'keepuplino' said:

I would say this year is as big a shambles as any we've had recently...

Yep, left sacking too late and appointed a manger who was blatantly the cheap option with no championship experience.

Farcical.

[twodogs]

44 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

i'm sorry Monkeh SL's expectations are too high as per his speech when he sacked SC.

Most fans expectations for this season was comfortable mid table, but sadly the summer put paid to that.

 

Spot on. Build on last sason and consolidate, then next season with a complete ground and and an experienced championship squad with a full season under their belts push on for play-offs. 

I may be being naive but I pray we've learned some lessons from the summer and not investing.

[twodogs]

Although given what the squad has now experienced it'll make'em never want to be in this position again

[bend it like brian]

7 minutes ago, Olé said:

I've given it an hour or two and am quite surprised no one has objected to DMCs comment that we had players on 14-15k a week. I've not been ITK since the start of the century, but a lot of people have been on here regularly declaring that (David James aside) we just don't go over 10k. Wage structure etc. Who is right?

By the way, if anyone is so moved by this exposé to want to wear a Derek McInnes RUN DMC t-shirt, I still have about sixty of the damn things propping up my pop-up warehouse of #SouthBristol gear. Just go to www.bsthree.co.uk (ha)

we went over the 10k wage structure way back in 2007

[Fiale]

5 minutes ago, Olé said:

I've given it an hour or two and am quite surprised no one has objected to DMCs comment that we had players on 14-15k a week. I've not been ITK since the start of the century, but a lot of people have been on here regularly declaring that (David James aside) we just don't go over 10k. Wage structure etc. Who is right?

By the way, if anyone is so moved by this exposé to want to wear a Derek McInnes RUN DMC t-shirt, I still have about sixty of the damn things propping up my pop-up warehouse of #SouthBristol gear. Just go to www.bsthree.co.uk (ha)

I bought one of those from someone hawking them outside the ground :-)    That website is hard on the eyes, time to invest in some hoodie models to show of your wares better - I suggest

 

 

[Northern Red]

11 minutes ago, Olé said:

By the way, if anyone is so moved by this exposé to want to wear a Derek McInnes RUN DMC t-shirt, I still have about sixty of the damn things propping up my pop-up warehouse of #SouthBristol gear. Just go to www.bsthree.co.uk (ha)

That might be the most shameless bit of advertising that I've ever seen! 

[David Brent]

13 minutes ago, Olé said:

By the way, if anyone is so moved by this exposé to want to wear a Derek McInnes RUN DMC t-shirt, I still have about sixty of the damn things propping up my pop-up warehouse of #SouthBristol gear. Just go to www.bsthree.co.uk (ha)

Well you won't find any city fans willing to pay £12.99 for them.....Presumably you've advertised to various Aberdeen Twitter profiles / forums etc...

(If DMC was still here I'd have one)

 

[Guest]

There are two aspects to posts like this... it's the club's fault... it's the managers fault.

No doubt the club has been mismanaged in many ways and I'd like to think that maybe just lately things have turned a corner backroom management wise = only time will tell.

However, as much as DM plays a distraction game by talking about the backroom antics, he forgets to talk about the truly appalling record he had in the season he got sacked. So to remind people of a few years back (this is a two way street):

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11726/8305956/derek-mcinnes-defends-bristol-citys-tactics-following-saturdays-loss

I believe he lost 7 straight games to get the sack?

I remember being down the gate and thinking, WTF - during his tenure, I was leaving the Gate in despair.

I'm glad he's doing well north of the border, but to engage in what appears to be revisionism in regards to his record, he does himself no favours. 'Truth' in this case is in the eye of the beholder.

I'll no doubt be accused of wearing rose tinted glasses about the back room management, I'll take it on the chin. However others are being wilfully blind about his record.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

This is all so depressing

Hopefully SL and The Board have learnt from a long catalogue of failure

If we go down serious questions have to be asked not of the players or MA or LJ but of SL and Bristol Sport.  I am fearful that we are in a cycle of recurring failure that won't change until SL and Bristol Sport go away.  Yet of course we know they won't. 

But ......

They merely have, in my opinion, the rest of this season for MA and LJ to save them from the tribunal of fans' opinion.   They would do well to consider the Liverpool situation.  Fans do have power.

Hopefully it isn't too late and we will survive in The Championship and LJ and MA will sort things out on the field in the summer

I understand what you are saying but to be honest anybody and I mean anybody would have failed under the circumstances, the job was far too early in his career for him and BCFC needed in the words of Michael Corleone in the Godfather 2 we needed a wartime consigliere.

 

[Maesknoll Red]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

So if McInnes came in to a club in total disarray, when did the rot start or had it always been like that?

Gary Johnson? Danny Wilson? John Ward? Joe Jordan second time? Osman? Pulis ? Denis Smith? Lumsden? Joe Jordan first time?

I cannot believe that it was Terry Cooper or Jordan who started the downhill slide. But by the time Danny Wilson arrived it was surely well entrenched with his Galacticos?

Under Wilson, this board was full of posts regarding players out of control, vomiting in shop doorways, turning up pissed for training, earning excessive salaries and he was either indifferent or incapable of stopping it.  That doesn't excuse the board not ensuring Wilson changed the culture, but for me, he was the start of the slide that saw players continually reported for being out on the town, ending with players jailed.