KeepUpLino Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 40 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: Not 100% convinced on Tomlin in my opinion, bit of a luxury. Pratley would be extremely good back up, he has been a standout performer for Bolton in an absolutely atrocious team. On this info I have to assume you haven't watched any of our games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 4 hours ago, hodge said: ...even if we could get him here I think we'd probably be looking north of £4/5m, can the club really afford fees that high? Yes, because we bid double that last summer for a player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, i_am_red said: Samir Carruthers and James Collins They would be taking the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, 'keepuplino' said: 6 minutes ago, 'keepuplino' said: On this info I have to assume you haven't watched any of our games... I have only missed 3/4 games this year mate, in my opinion there are better players out there than Tomlin, granted the last couple of games he has been great but even against Fulham he was poor but scored the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, i_am_red said: Samir Carruthers and James Collins Piece of piss this recruitment lark, innit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Bs4Red said: Not 100% convinced on Tomlin in my opinion, bit of a luxury. Pratley would be extremely good back up, he has been a standout performer for Bolton in an absolutely atrocious team. 13 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: There may be better players out there than Tomlin but certainly wouldn't be Pratley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 The one thing you have to keep in mind, is that the majority of players looked at will be around the age of 24. Why 24 you may ask... Players around 24 have experience, but also 3-4 years ahead of them to still develop and gain in value. The time to offload a player is around the 27-28 yo mark. They have value then...but lose value over their next contract term. I can see us having players in the 24 yo age bracket...a few on the last years of their career, like Odi and Wilbs...and a couple in the area we don't really want in terms of de valuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 16 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said: There may be better players out there than Tomlin but certainly wouldn't be Pratley. That wasn't a straight swap quite clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Chivs said: Having seen them quite recently, and thinking them outstanding, I'd go for Scott Parker and Ross McCormack. Central midfield and centre forward/in the hole player are two places we really need to strengthen. Wow. The currently on £70k a week Scott Parker whose legs looked like they'd gone against us and the £11m Ross McCormack? Even Nathan Baker is more realistic than those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 3 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: How is trying to sign a player (Baker) from a championship club in the summer (Villa) unrealistic when we've got a billionaire owner? Sustainability, spending beyond the clubs means puts the club in trouble financially down the line. Or would you want us to try getting to the prem so spending big and risk going the way of Pompey, Bolton etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 10 hours ago, billywedlock said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 10 hours ago, Bs4Red said: Tomlin makes things happens and in my opinion is streets ahead of anything we have bar Korey... If we didn't have Tomlin we would more than likely be 5-6 points worse of than we are now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, billywedlock said: With the new stadium, we should be in a position to compete with the few non parachute payment clubs in our league. You need to look at Ipswich and Boro for example. Both have wage bills around the £15M area. Ipswich have a policy now of signing free transfers and younger players from lower league. Obviously Mings was one of their best examples, but it shows where we will have to be looking in future, signing younger players who may come good. Flint is possibly one of our own good examples, where SOD said we paid too much, but in reality with his progress this year, could easily find a buyer for multiple millions (IMHO) . We would all love to have Baker and Flint as the cornerstone of our next few years in the Championship, but unless we ever get to the Prem, we have to search and look harder and wider , and take more gambles on ex Prem released young players (we have a good number of those) and spread the net overseas a lot wider. The last thing to do is pay huge fees for the likes of Gray for example. We need to have bought them when they were in the lower leagues. The same for Tomlin. (he is now out of our target for a Perm signing if we follow our policy) Kodja in many respects, at 27 is out of policy, but lets say he gets 18 goals this year, will be a relative bargain. If he starts next year well, the club will look to sell in summer 2017 if we work to plan and make a profit. Goldbourne shows we can pick up experience at a good price too (our own Cole Skuse left on a free, and has proved a great signing for Ipswich) . All of this is why Mark Ashton has had to start a huge overhaul of our scouting and player identification processes. Today it is very sophisticated , and we have to be up to date and have (with our shopping budget) a significant analysis of every player in L1 and L2 and below. I am also of the opinion we have to get to Tier 1 Academy, the structure is in place (I was told by the club) and needs just the investment in coaches (ok its £2Million) as we cannot lose the likes of Kane, Maddox, Davies and Aarons (though we released him..) if we really want to match Southampton for example. These are the kids that need to come through and get into our first team. Otherwise, we might as well scrap the academy, and just create an under 21 squad made up of Prem league rejects. The advantage of Academy spending, if SL so wished, is that it is outside FFP. But the rather bizarre attempts to spend £5m plus on a forward last summer was out of policy and character. Unless someone wanted to throw £50M at the squad, which would be high risk and a gamble (see Derby) to reach the Prem riches, a return to the strategy we had thought out before makes the most sense. But we do need some magic and quality, look at how Freeman, such a danger in L1 has not delivered in the Championship, it is not easy the task in front ( Luke being one of a few) yet others have raised a level, like Korey or Flint. But magic we need to look hard for, though lets not forget Tomlin spent many years at Rushden and Diamonds. They are out there. If we can find those players, and it is far from certain, and maintain the excellent team spirit SC installed at the club and LJ seems to have maintained , then working hard together with some new talents we can compete at this level. But it will not be easy, and I think expectations of big signings are unrealistic. Unless Peter Hargreaves has no idea how to spend his £2 billion plus Freeman is an example of why we need to find a balance. I'm not giving up on him but he hasn't really settled in the championship and is why we can't rely solely on lower leagues. Maybe Baker is too far out of reach if his transfer fee and wages are too high but we can only try. If our fees can be lower for transfers then it justifies the wages more. Tomlin is an example. While he is over 25, he is clearly more talented than anything we've got. He was sold for 3m last summer and if we got him for say half or less, that is a savings of basically his wages for the year. This gives us time to blood the younger ones we can get from the lower leagues. Give them time and less pressure to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolBEAT Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 On 24/03/2016 at 01:17, Chairman Mao said: rumour is Gotze wants to leave Munich... Seriously though a team like this; O'Donnell, Bryan, Flint, Maguire, Matthews, Pack, Smith, Left Winger/Freeman, Roofe/Dack/Tomlin, Right Winger, Kodjia Johnson sees Bryan as a LB long term, so he moves to LB with Goldbourne good cover. Leaves us needing a Left and Right Wing, Freeman can fill in the left so that leaves us with the right. A New CB is a must, no way will Baker stay. Likewise either the three CAM options would be ideal, whoever is cheapest, right fit blah blah. Possibly could do with additional cover in the defensive mdifield role but Bryan can slot in there. So after that ramble we need a CB, RW, CAM. Could do with a LW and CDM for the squad Gotze is too injury prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 21 hours ago, hodge said: Do people really expect Villa would sell us Baker? Given they'll be down in the championship his value will be huge. If he was 20/21 they might not. But he's nearly 25. I think it's entirely possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyb Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Just a thought regarding Baker, lets say he is on £20k per week at Villa. When they get relegated, there is a good chance (unless their management were financially naive) that he will have a 25-50% wage cut stipulated in his contract. Also £20k per week is very top end championship or premier league wage structure so if he weren't to lower his demands then he may quickly find himself rotting in Villa's under 21s before too long. People will say that he is good enough for them in the championship, which I would agree with, however their fans don't seem to as they will be looking to dominate the league next year and will feel they are better than Baker, again not something I would agree with as he has been very solid this year since the switch to the back 4 and has shown he can compete with the very best in this league. Also, I can't imagine he'd cost much more than £1-2m. If this is the case - I may be totally wrong here so don't hold me to it - then the deal would start to look far more financially sustainable for a club in our position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 12 hours ago, simon uk said: I like baker, but if the fee was in the 4 million range then i think thats too much for us to spend on a centre back. Thats marquee striker money for us. If the rumour mill was correct last summer, we could have bought McGuire from Hull for £2.5 million if it hadn't been messed up by individuals in BCFC. So cannot understand where £4/5 million comes from. A figment of someone's imagination? On the evidence of one game only (City v Hull this season), McGuire would appear to be to be a more rounded central defender. Maybe not so hard as Baker, but a better footballer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: If the rumour mill was correct last summer, we could have bought McGuire from Hull for £2.5 million if it hadn't been messed up by individuals in BCFC. So cannot understand where £4/5 million comes from. A figment of someone's imagination? On the evidence of one game only (City v Hull this season), McGuire would appear to be to be a more rounded central defender. Maybe not so hard as Baker, but a better footballer Yes but they rejected 2.5m. I imagine they'd be looking at least double that if they were to sell. I could see Baker costing 2.5-3m. On 15k a week maybe. Is it doable? I'm not sure. I would love to keep him even at that price but we may be better off spending that on a goal scorer and taking a chance on a lower league CB with our current finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 10 hours ago, billywedlock said: Because he is earning more than double any other player in our squad. You have to have some level of wage harmony. You also assume to spend someone else's money. How do you know the salaries of every player at our club? Genuine question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Libertine1 said: If he was 20/21 they might not. But he's nearly 25. I think it's entirely possible. Defenders generally stay in their peak for slightly longer than other positions, so you're talking about a player approaching their prime, rather than just the idea of potential. If anything I'd have said the value would be higher as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 11 hours ago, billywedlock said: Because he is earning more than double any other player in our squad. You have to have some level of wage harmony. You also assume to spend someone else's money. Ok, fine - so we can forget about signing any of Baker, Odemwingie, Matthews and Tomlin as they are all premier league players so we can't afford them. So, have you got a more realistic shopping list? Apologies if you've posted suggestions above but I haven't got the time to scroll through pages of posts. Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 13 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said: There may be better players out there than Tomlin but certainly wouldn't be Pratley. But they are two very different players. 3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said: Freeman is an example of why we need to find a balance. I'm not giving up on him but he hasn't really settled in the championship and is why we can't rely solely on lower leagues. Maybe Baker is too far out of reach if his transfer fee and wages are too high but we can only try. If our fees can be lower for transfers then it justifies the wages more. Tomlin is an example. While he is over 25, he is clearly more talented than anything we've got. He was sold for 3m last summer and if we got him for say half or less, that is a savings of basically his wages for the year. This gives us time to blood the younger ones we can get from the lower leagues. Give them time and less pressure to develop. I'm not giving up on LF either. Need good coaching. Lots of other Championship clubs rate him. @billywedlock good post I think one of the problems is trying to compare summer 2014 recruitment with this summer's. In 2014, we were a big fish and could justify presenting an attractive proposition to the players we were after. 2016 is different. We are not a big fish. We are still (this time potentially) a club on the up (we hope), a good set up with the development of the ground, but still a poor club in the Champ if we want sustainability. We have no parachute payments to benefit from and that is a key factor. Some clubs will spend that wisely, others will gamble it. i do wonder whether season ticket sales will dictate policy over close season. SL wants a 20k average gate to generate that extra £8-9m in revenue. Really need to ensure safety asap and see if that has an effect. I'm not convinced the pricing is conducive to getting 16-18k STs. Be great if so, add in 2-3-4K away supporters, plus your POTD and you get what SL wants, if not more. However I think the (unsure) fans will want to see a statement of intent first. Get the likes of Baker, Tomlin and Matthews (I think Odemwingie will go back abroad) in and those fans can be optimistic that the club is moving forward and is worth purchasing their ST. These players come with a double edged sword, because you probably need to offer new deals to: Flint Smith Bryan (not sure I'd have said this at Xmas) Ayling Kodjia unless they had some extra stuff already in their contracts. That £8-9m revenue goes very quickly. Giving those 5 an extra £5k pw plus extras uses up £2m. I accept that we are already paying wages for the loans, but converting those into permanent deals isn't going to be cheap. Could we get Baker on another season loan? I think 2016 recruitment will be tough, expect us to miss out on players we as fans think should be targets. Don't ignore the lure of other clubs, even Rangers were a player last season (Tavernier, Foderingham) in 'potential' targets. I am confident that LJ and MA are well on the ball, and will be fairly open in their communications. That doesn't necessarily mean they will divulge targets though. Lets get safe first and then watch this place go into meltdown over the summer....not withstanding the Euros making the window more difficult. This is Bristol City, we don't do it the easy way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 35 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Ok, fine - so we can forget about signing any of Baker, Odemwingie, Matthews and Tomlin as they are all premier league players so we can't afford them. So, have you got a more realistic shopping list? Apologies if you've posted suggestions above but I haven't got the time to scroll through pages of posts. Cheers... All 4 need to be signed. If not then another season of misery and another relegation struggle is on the cards. There's not much point being in the Championship if all you're going to do is hover over the trap door back to L1. SL needs to work out what it is he actually wants for this club. If he wants to be challenging at the top these sort of players have to be made permeant. If they all go back at the end of the season god forbid, we all know that we don't have the quality to stay up without them or others like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 12 hours ago, GrahamC said: Wow. The currently on £70k a week Scott Parker whose legs looked like they'd gone against us and the £11m Ross McCormack? Even Nathan Baker is more realistic than those two. Ah - I missed the memo documenting Parker's wages. How did you get on the distro? And yes, the £11M McCormack. If we want to compete at the top we need to spend that kind of money. We could always go down your route (I infer) and spend money on players willing to be involved in a relegation dogfight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, Sniper said: All 4 need to be signed. If not then another season of misery and another relegation struggle is on the cards. There's not much point being in the Championship if all you're going to do is hover over the trap door back to L1. SL needs to work out what it is he actually wants for this club. If he wants to be challenging at the top these sort of players have to be made permeant. If they all go back at the end of the season god forbid, we all know that we don't have the quality to stay up without them or others like them. He has, pay attention! He wants the club to stand on it's own two feet, generate more income itself (buying low, selling high etc), be sustainable, not rely on him to bale the club out by writing off millions of debt year after year. That's the priority, I believe, from his public words and his actions. He wants us to do this and be successful at this level. He has referred to clubs like Burnley, Swansea and Norwich being models for us to follow. He thinks this is do-able. He has seen how Burnley, on crowds of 13k in 2009, and 13k in 2014 (albeit in the final year of receiving parachute payments) got themselves up into the Prem twice with managers with limited experience and no previous experience of promotion in this league, and thought: why can't we do this? That's how I see SL sees it for this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I think we are pretty sure to be in for Gilbey of Colchester, a couple of low bids put in during the January window, knowing that he's out of contract in the summer & the low offers will hopefully influence any compensation we'll have to pay for him especially if it goes to a tribunal. I have a feeling that our centre back problem maybe solved by Alfie Mawson at Barnsley, LJ will know him fairly well & will be aware of what his financial package would be. He's young a fairly highly rated & fits the clubs criteria & would undoubtedly be a cheaper option than Baker. Along with making Adam Matthews loan deal into a permanent deal, this would give us a basis of a better team than we started this season with. I think the club will make a move to keep Tomlin but a lot will depend on the total financial package (transfer fee & players financial deal). If the Tomlin deal isn't plausible then it leaves us needing 2 more forward thinking players (either strikers or a number 10 & striker) of which Odemwingie may well fit the bill for one of these positions. I then think we are looking for a right sided midfielder / winger / attacker depending on our preferred formation and also cover at centre half depending on how the club see Williams future. I also wouldn't be surprised to see us bring in someone via our French / Spanish scouts, just to give us that Unknown / surprise element for the opposition to have to deal with & with the obvious better option when it comes to value for money!! A lot will also depend on our ability to hold on to the players we already have!! If Flint, Smith or Kodjia happen to move on then it will mean we'll have a lot more work to do in the transfer window. And if we can keep these but move on some fringe players (Agard, Wilbraham, Williams, Little, Wagstaff, Reid & Burns), it would give us more scope to improve the squads overall ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 On 24 March 2016 at 03:03, Bs4Red said: Wouldn't mind Pratley when Bolton go down, short term deal aslong as wages are small. He was terrible on Saturday. No thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Chivs said: Ah - I missed the memo documenting Parker's wages. How did you get on the distro? And yes, the £11M McCormack. If we want to compete at the top we need to spend that kind of money. We could always go down your route (I infer) and spend money on players willing to be involved in a relegation dogfight.... Parker is a full England international who has moved for in excess of £30m in his career, mainly playing in the Prem, where Fulham were when they signed him. Seriously what sort of money did you think he'd be on? £5k? He's also 35 now and if the second half the other week at Craven Cottage is anything to go by he's finished. It is possible to get a quality striker without spending a fortune, Kodjia now has more league goals than Jordan Rhodes but unlike Boro we didn't pay £10m.. Even if we did, why on earth would McCormack want to join a side about two places higher in the league? This sounds like Gray and Gayle all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Chivs said: And yes, the £11M McCormack. If we want to compete at the top we need to spend that kind of money. It's irrelevant if we are willing to bid large amounts for these kind of players if they aren't willing to come to us!! It's not just the transfer fee that comes into it, there is the players signing on fee (which would be considerable on that sort of sized transfer fee) & his weekly salary which as we all know, needs fit in with our budget & that's highly unlikely as I doubt he'd be willing to take a pay cut to join us. And as we showed last summer, it's pointless making these type of bids, for these types of players as they are likely to have better option available to them if they are actually available for transfer. While I feel we need to improve the quality of our squad, we also need to be realistic with our targets!! That's not to say that if we could get the likes of Tomlin in this season, that we couldn't be looking at this type of player the following summer but I just think this summer is a little too soon for us to be making moves for this calibre of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie_Turner Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 On 23 March 2016 at 23:35, alexukhc said: Matty Taylor to **** the slags off And to stop me saying FFS everytime he scores...yes, my real name is Matty Taylor !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.