Tragic

[Esmond Million's Bung]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3644847/Woman-MP-Jo-Cox-stabbed-shot-twice-man-makeshift-gun.html

[Guest]

Confirmed dead. Going to hold passing judgement till facts out there but taught a with her family right now 

[Robbored]

Terrible act of violence with devastating consequences. 

Surely the perpetrator must have serious mental health problems. 

[screech]

Is this not classed as a terrorist attack?

[Lanterne Rouge]

From the news reports it just sounds like some random guy. He must have problems, still, all will become clear I`m sure.

[Fordy62]

39 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Terrible act of violence with devastating consequences. 

Surely the perpetrator must have serious mental health problems. 

Yeh. My first thoughts too. I suppose we'll find out in 6 months. 

Awful. 

RIP. 

[Southstandoriginal]

34 minutes ago, screech said:

Is this not classed as a terrorist attack?

Doubt it. Bloke was "a loner" apparently. We shall see, totally tragic and senseless as always.

[screech]

10 minutes ago, Southstandoriginal said:

Doubt it. Bloke was "a loner" apparently. We shall see, totally tragic and senseless as always.

You have to wonder how many more mentally ill people walk amongst us everyday. Not all will do these dreadful things, I imagine they are more likely to hurt themselves, the government have been asked to invest more in this field for years. Tragic for her young children.

[Robbored]

Socially isolated, living alone and by the sound of it, with poor social skills. A perfect combination for development of paranoia. I saw similar cases during my early career and violence wasn't an uncommon symptom although none of it led to murder.

The guy will probably end up in Broadmoor having been deemed unfit to plead.

[Super]

Shocking. Reminds me of the Jill Dando death a few years back. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, screech said:

Is this not classed as a terrorist attack?

I'd certainly say so. I'd also agree with the people who say the fact he was troubled and poorly socially integrated played a part too but I think that's equally true of Orlando, San Bernardono and most modern terrorist attacks. Ultimately, on the face of it it appears he's murdered someone he perceived as disagreeing with his politics whilst shouting a political slogan. On the face of it, that's terrorism, even if doubtless other factors have played their part too.

Either way it's utterly horrific and desperately sad that something like this could happen in the UK.

 

[Super]

13 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd certainly say so. I'd also agree with the people who say the fact he was troubled and poorly socially integrated played a part too but I think that's equally true of Orlando, San Bernardono and most modern terrorist attacks. Ultimately, on the face of it it appears he's murdered someone he perceived as disagreeing with his politics whilst shouting a political slogan. On the face of it, that's terrorism, even if doubtless other factors have played their part too.

Either way it's utterly horrific and desperately sad that something like this could happen in the UK.

 

Shame he didn't kill himself.

[LondonBristolian]

19 minutes ago, Super said:

Shame he didn't kill himself.

I understand the sentiment but I can't help feeling that perhaps her family would like some answers and to see her killer face justice. You get neither of those when someone kills themselves.

[Super]

12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I understand the sentiment but I can't help feeling that perhaps her family would like some answers and to see her killer face justice. You get neither of those when someone kills themselves.

Maybe you're right. 

[Robbored]

14 minutes ago, Super said:

Maybe you're right. 

He is right. 100%

[Southstandoriginal]

54 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd certainly say so. I'd also agree with the people who say the fact he was troubled and poorly socially integrated played a part too but I think that's equally true of Orlando, San Bernardono and most modern terrorist attacks. Ultimately, on the face of it it appears he's murdered someone he perceived as disagreeing with his politics whilst shouting a political slogan. On the face of it, that's terrorism, even if doubtless other factors have played their part too.

Either way it's utterly horrific and desperately sad that something like this could happen in the UK.

 

I think we need to wait and see. It's all to easy for interested parties to make political capital out of a tragedy, especially at a highly charged time like this. At present from what I have read no political opinions or affiliations of the man have come to light and his alleged use of the words Britain first seem to have been discredited. Things will come out in the days and weeks to come but it's certainly too early to put it down to terrorism.

[Fiale]

24 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I understand the sentiment but I can't help feeling that perhaps her family would like some answers and to see her killer face justice. You get neither of those when someone kills themselves.

From what we have heard of the killer the family will unfortunately not get any real closure. The UK really needs to step up it's care and treatment of those with mental health issues in the country. Let's hope it will not be a death in vain. 

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, Southstandoriginal said:

I think we need to wait and see. It's all to easy for interested parties to make political capital out of a tragedy, especially at a highly charged time like this. At present from what I have read no political opinions or affiliations of the man have come to light and his alleged use of the words Britain first seem to have been discredited. Things will come out in the days and weeks to come but it's certainly too early to put it down to terrorism.

I don't think anyone is or should be making political capital.  But I think anyone killing a democratically elected politician when they don't know them personally has to be assumed to have committed an act of terrorism.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

He obviously either knew her or certainly recognised her, it's doubtful that it's random, usually when politicians are attacked like this it has something to do with a problem that they put before the politician and are unhappy about either it's outcome or it's handling.

[BCFC Jimmer]

She was a lady fighting against social and economic injustice. She was a charity worker who gave joy to many.

If confirmed that this was from a britain first supporter then this a terrorist attack and should be treated as such.

Im so sad right now i cant put it into words. She was a good person.

We will keep the red flag flying high. The fight for economic justice continues! 

[Southstandoriginal]

19 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think anyone is or should be making political capital.  But I think anyone killing a democratically elected politician when they don't know them personally has to be assumed to have committed an act of terrorism.

You can't assume any such thing yet. He might be a random nutter who didn't know her from Adam, or it may have been political. We just don't know yet.

[oldstandrobin]

RIP Jo Cox. although I dont vote Labour, this is a very sad day for us in the UK. Nobody who serves , whether Tory, Labour, Lib Dem or any other party deserves to die like this. My thoughts and prayers go to her family and especially her children who now dont have a mother. My eldest daughter is one year older than Jo, so it really brings it home. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

26 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think anyone is or should be making political capital.  But I think anyone killing a democratically elected politician when they don't know them personally has to be assumed to have committed an act of terrorism.

Unless the perpetrator is so mentally deranged that he or she just has no idea why they acted, but did so simply on impulse.

[Fiale]

18 minutes ago, Collis1 said:

Treating mental health issues whilst you have been supporting ukip and brexit?

With all due respect, you dont have a f*÷cking clue.

No respect in your post, so why even pretend - your entitled to your prejudices but this is not the thread to do it.

[LondonBristolian]

17 minutes ago, Southstandoriginal said:

You can't assume any such thing yet. He might be a random nutter who didn't know her from Adam, or it may have been political. We just don't know yet.

Maybe "work from the basis" is the better phrase than "assume".  Of course we need to wait until all the facts come in but I think all of us draw initial conclusions from it.  If someone attacks a synagogue, you probably work from the basis the person who did it might have been anti-Semitic.  If someone attacked a mosque, you'd probably work from the basis the person who did it might have been anti-Muslim and, with what happened in Orlando last week, you have to start from the basis that homophobia was likely to be a factor.  If someone kills a politician then you have to start form the basis that it might well have been politically motivated.  Of course it could have been an entire random attack but random attacks where the perpetrator has no motive (no matter how irrational) are rare so it would seem strange to start working from that basis.

Incidentally I'm not entirely clear why you think the use of the words "British first" has been discredited.  I'm yet to see that anywhere?

[LondonBristolian]

45 minutes ago, Fiale said:

From what we have heard of the killer the family will unfortunately not get any real closure. The UK really needs to step up it's care and treatment of those with mental health issues in the country. Let's hope it will not be a death in vain. 

The problem with stepping up treatment and care of people with mental health impairments, vital though it is, is that it costs money.  It's really hard to achieve results on a shoestring and anyone who works in mental health will tell you how appalling under-resourced mental health care is in this country and that it is getting worse and worse.  Until we accept that this is something we need to spend money on, and that this might well take spending public money to do so, it will be hard to achieve change. 

[LondonBristolian]

14 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Unless the perpetrator is so mentally deranged that he or she just has no idea why they acted, but did so simply on impulse.

They presumably left the house and made it all the way to the MP's constituency surgery before deciding to attack someone.  It seems a bit unlikely to me that the one person he chose to attack randomly happened to be an MP leaving her surgery.  Coincidences do happen but it seems slightly improbable. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 minutes ago, Fiale said:

No respect in your post, so why even pretend - your entitled to your prejudices but this is not the thread to do it.

I agree it was a typically vile response on a thread supposed to be honouring this poor woman who was murdered and her family.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

14 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The problem with stepping up treatment and care of people with mental health impairments, vital though it is, is that it costs money.  It's really hard to achieve results on a shoestring and anyone who works in mental health will tell you how appalling under-resourced mental health care is in this country and that it is getting worse and worse.  Until we accept that this is something we need to spend money on, and that this might well take spending public money to do so, it will be hard to achieve change. 

You are correct but public safety needs to come into the equation.

Back in the 80's when the tories were closing virtually all mental hospitals down (and some did need closing) I had a meeting with the head of the Flax Bourton mental hospital at Fairleigh house and he told me then it was a ticking time bomb, residents included an 84 year old woman whose crime was to have struck matches in her bedroom as an 8 year old and 74 years later she was still there and about to be cast out of the care system and 66 year old man whom he described as a real danger to children with the capacity to kill, it was a frightening insight.

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

30 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

They presumably left the house and made it all the way to the MP's constituency surgery before deciding to attack someone.  It seems a bit unlikely to me that the one person he chose to attack randomly happened to be an MP leaving her surgery.  Coincidences do happen but it seems slightly improbable. 

Regrettably, and whilst I am sure you are probably correct in that the unfortunate (too tame a word, I know, but I can't think of one more suitable at present) victim of this outrageous and tragic attack was, indeed, the intended victim, I am not convinced that the mere fact she was an MP provides a sufficiently political motive in the mind of the alleged murderer to class his attack as terrorism, at least not in its commonly accepted use, i.e. the use of violence in the pursuit of political aims etc.