Sam Allardyce

[Robin1988]

@Olé I appreciate your point but it still doesn't excuse what I said in the previous post IMO so we might as well agree to disagree.

[spudski]

'Bribes' have been going on in football for many many years.

Fans look through rose tinted glasses at old managers of the past, like they were no different to the likes of SA.

Does anyone think the likes of someone like a former great Forest manager were any different? Football has been notorious for 'bungs' over the years. Players, managers and owners. It's been rife. As Steve McClaren said today...the situation with SA could have happened to any one of them.

To call out SA as being Greedy....you may as well stand up and be vociferous about the majority of football then.

One thing worth thinking about...we are British...we like to obey rules, and do the right thing, and we have a very low opinion of people that don't.

Whether you like it or not...a great majority of the rest of the world doesn't work like that. It's their culture to 'grease the palm'...and has been like that for Centuries in all aspects of life. They don't see it as wrong...just a way of making the business wheels go round. They see rules to be broken or get around.

I've often discussed this with European friends, especially those in Italy, France and Greece...as those are the one's I've mainly dealt with.

It's often like talking to Aliens...they just don't get it or understand it...their mentality is a polar opposite to ours. They see it as being clever, being savvy and ahead of the game. They don't see it as cheating like us.

In fact the more you travel and do business abroad, you soon realise the majority of the world aren't like us.

Football is an International sport with many International influences...it's no surprise it's the way it is in this country.

In saying that...that 'culture' has always been in football.

Getting frustrated and angry about it, is futile...it is what it is. It may not be right...but 'corruption' is in all parts of business throughout the world, not just football.

Why the Telegraph and newspapers and media think it's headline news and a shock is most bizarre imo.

It's a story that many know about....it's not really news.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

'Bribes' have been going on in football for many many years.

Fans look through rose tinted glasses at old managers of the past, like they were no different to the likes of SA.

Does anyone think the likes of someone like a former great Forest manager were any different? Football has been notorious for 'bungs' over the years. Players, managers and owners. It's been rife. As Steve McClaren said today...the situation with SA could have happened to any one of them.

To call out SA as being Greedy....you may as well stand up and be vociferous about the majority of football then.

One thing worth thinking about...we are British...we like to obey rules, and do the right thing, and we have a very low opinion of people that don't.

Whether you like it or not...a great majority of the rest of the world doesn't work like that. It's their culture to 'grease the palm'...and has been like that for Centuries in all aspects of life. They don't see it as wrong...just a way of making the business wheels go round. They see rules to be broken or get around.

I've often discussed this with European friends, especially those in Italy, France and Greece...as those are the one's I've mainly dealt with.

It's often like talking to Aliens...they just don't get it or understand it...their mentality is a polar opposite to ours. They see it as being clever, being savvy and ahead of the game. They don't see it as cheating like us.

In fact the more you travel and do business abroad, you soon realise the majority of the world aren't like us.

Football is an International sport with many International influences...it's no surprise it's the way it is in this country.

In saying that...that 'culture' has always been in football.

Getting frustrated and angry about it, is futile...it is what it is. It may not be right...but 'corruption' is in all parts of business throughout the world, not just football.

Why the Telegraph and newspapers and media think it's headline news and a shock is most bizarre imo.

It's a story that many know about....it's not really news.

With all due respect that is nonsense Spud.

The bottom line with any misdemeanour in life, you pay the price for getting caught end of and talking about those who have never been caught is no excuse whatsoever.

Take for instance the scandal that the ex gas goalkeeper in my forum name was caught up in, with Tony Kay, David Bronco Layne and Williams were also caught, do you honestly believe that they were not the tip of the iceberg? of course they were not but they were the ones caught and that's life, you get punished for getting caught and it's pointless crying about it after you get caught.

and as Esmond Million, Tony Kay and David Bronco Layne found to their cost, the punishment is incredibly harsh in the hope that it might deter other greedy people within the game, sadly the world game is mired in corruption but occasionally one or two get caught and the many don't, maybe Sam was bullshitting to impress his latest golden goose but if not he obviously has a lot of valuable information about other corrupt greedy managers, some in the prem and perhaps he should come clean.

What you are saying is a bit like saying to a traffic warden, "loads of people park here during the day, why ticket me?", err "because I don't stand in this one position all day but when I did there you were".

 

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

With all due respect that is nonsense Spud.

The bottom line with any misdemeanour in life, you pay the price for getting caught end of and talking about those who have never been caught is no excuse whatsoever.

Take for instance the scandal that the ex gas goalkeeper in my forum name was caught up in, with Tony Kay, David Bronco Layne and Williams were also caught, do you honestly believe that they were not the tip of the iceberg? of course they were not but they were the ones caught and that's life, you get punished for getting caught and it's pointless crying about it after you get caught.

and as Esmond Million, Tony Kay and David Bronco Layne found to their cost, the punishment is incredibly harsh in the hope that it might deter other greedy people within the game, sadly the world game is mired in corruption but occasionally one or two get caught and the many don't, maybe Sam was bullshitting to impress his latest golden goose but if not he obviously has a lot of valuable information about other corrupt greedy managers, some in the prem and perhaps he should come clean.

 

Oh come on fella...you must know as well as I do, especially living in France, that if you don't grease the palm of certain people in certain situations then you get no where.

I've faced it many times abroad. Trying to set up business in France, Italy and Greece was an absolute ball ache unless you had the money to pay certain people in authority off.

What makes it worse, is that often certain countries Governments, local or National, will also be involved or back up those doing it. You would be naïve to think otherwise.

Not everyone who gets caught gets in trouble. In fact they often get protected. Seen it first hand, here and abroad.

I'm not going to get into some tit for tat with you again fella...but with all due respect, you are living under a fluffy cloud if you think otherwise.

This whole scenario going on right now is bullshit...you might as well sack everyone in football and at the FA if you want 100% clean.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Oh come on fella...you must know as well as I do, especially living in France, that if you don't grease the palm of certain people in certain situations then you get no where.

I've faced it many times abroad. Trying to set up business in France, Italy and Greece was an absolute ball ache unless you had the money to pay certain people in authority off.

What makes it worse, is that often certain countries Governments, local or National, will also be involved or back up those doing it. You would be naïve to think otherwise.

Not everyone who gets caught gets in trouble. In fact they often get protected. Seen it first hand, here and abroad.

I'm not going to get into some tit for tat with you again fella...but with all due respect, you are living under a fluffy cloud if you think otherwise.

This whole scenario going on right now is bullshit...you might as well sack everyone in football and at the FA if you want 100% clean.

 

Spud as usual nothing changes you are correct and over 90% of other people are wrong, nobody is arguing that it doesn't happen of course it ******* well happens but as I said you get caught you get punished, that's life.

of course it will never be 100% clean but you deal with the people that you catch and Sam got caught offering advice for payment on how to circumnavigate the rules as laid down by his employers.

You don't ignore it saying "well everybody is at it".

There is simple rule of thumb, before counting the digits of the offer make sure you carry out due diligence, trust nobody and never meet with people that you cannot verify.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

As an aside, has ANYONE been tempted to sign up 'beyond the paywall' of the Times as a result of these investigations?

No?

Thought not!

What has The Times got to do with these revelations by The Telegraph?!

[Olé]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

One thing worth thinking about...we are British...we like to obey rules, and do the right thing, and we have a very low opinion of people that don't.

Whether you like it or not...a great majority of the rest of the world doesn't work like that.

@spudski I think we have been more or less on the same page so far, but I'm not sure I go along entirely with this. I definitely believe the UK has some of the best attempts at transparency, anti-bribery, and policing of business practices, but I disagree with the stereotype of 'it all goes on over there'. Which was more or less my point on Allardyce - he's been caught doing what lots of senior people do here in the UK, I assure you there are plenty who don't obey the rules or do the right thing (even if they say they do). Greed corrupts whether you're British or not. It leads people to say and do anything. As @29AR put it, the Telegraph only had to find out how much to fill the trough.

The difference is the subtlety. In some countries you literally put money in someones hand. In the UK (and other places) you court them, buy them food and drink, and dangle all sorts of personal opportunities and rewards. Anti-bribery laws in the UK are some of the clearest and easiest to follow in the world, but if you're closing a deal it's not hard to get round them and still offer or make clear the rewards down the line. As I said elsewhere, the great irony for me about the FA is the football stadiums full of this going on in hospitality. There will be 10 Sam Allardyce's at every England game being plied with hospitality and bragging about connections and promising the world, in return.

 

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Olé said:

@spudski I think we have been more or less on the same page so far, but I'm not sure I go along entirely with this. I definitely believe the UK has some of the best attempts at transparency, anti-bribery, and policing of business practices, but I disagree with the stereotype of 'it all goes on over there'. Which was more or less my point on Allardyce - he's been caught doing what lots of senior people do here in the UK, I assure you there are plenty who don't obey the rules or do the right thing (even if they say they do). Greed corrupts whether you're British or not. It leads people to say and do anything. As @29AR put it, the Telegraph only had to find out how much to fill the trough.

The difference is the subtlety. In some countries you literally put money in someones hand. In the UK (and other places) you court them, buy them food and drink, and dangle all sorts of personal opportunities and rewards. Anti-bribery laws in the UK are some of the clearest and easiest to follow in the world, but if you're closing a deal it's not hard to get round them and still offer or make clear the rewards down the line. As I said elsewhere, the great irony for me about the FA is the football stadiums full of this going on in hospitality. There will be 10 Sam Allardyce's at every England game being plied with hospitality and bragging about connections and promising the world, in return.

 

Pretty much what I was implying fella...just different wording. Seen it first hand in this Country and abroad. And some old fuddy duddies sitting in their leather chesterfields reading the papers, judging everyone from their Ivory towers won't change how I think, until I experience it differently first hand ;-)

Funny how some people here interpret saying it 'how it is'...as condoning the actions and sticking up for those who have done wrong.

It's a bit like those people who knew Jimmy Saville and the like were 'at it', but said and did nothing, and then act all shocked when it comes out in the papers years later....a completely weird mindset.

[exAtyeoMax]

30 minutes ago, Olé said:

@spudski I think we have been more or less on the same page so far, but I'm not sure I go along entirely with this. I definitely believe the UK has some of the best attempts at transparency, anti-bribery, and policing of business practices, but I disagree with the stereotype of 'it all goes on over there'. Which was more or less my point on Allardyce - he's been caught doing what lots of senior people do here in the UK, I assure you there are plenty who don't obey the rules or do the right thing (even if they say they do). Greed corrupts whether you're British or not. It leads people to say and do anything. As @29AR put it, the Telegraph only had to find out how much to fill the trough.

The difference is the subtlety. In some countries you literally put money in someones hand. In the UK (and other places) you court them, buy them food and drink, and dangle all sorts of personal opportunities and rewards. Anti-bribery laws in the UK are some of the clearest and easiest to follow in the world, but if you're closing a deal it's not hard to get round them and still offer or make clear the rewards down the line. As I said elsewhere, the great irony for me about the FA is the football stadiums full of this going on in hospitality. There will be 10 Sam Allardyce's at every England game being plied with hospitality and bragging about connections and promising the world, in return.

 

That's why a lot of business is done on the golf course…

[Frenchay Red]

Like a game of Top Trumps on here at times.                       

[bs3]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

'Bribes' have been going on in football for many many years.

Fans look through rose tinted glasses at old managers of the past, like they were no different to the likes of SA.

Does anyone think the likes of someone like a former great Forest manager were any different? Football has been notorious for 'bungs' over the years. Players, managers and owners. It's been rife. As Steve McClaren said today...the situation with SA could have happened to any one of them.

To call out SA as being Greedy....you may as well stand up and be vociferous about the majority of football then.

One thing worth thinking about...we are British...we like to obey rules, and do the right thing, and we have a very low opinion of people that don't.

Whether you like it or not...a great majority of the rest of the world doesn't work like that. It's their culture to 'grease the palm'...and has been like that for Centuries in all aspects of life. They don't see it as wrong...just a way of making the business wheels go round. They see rules to be broken or get around.

I've often discussed this with European friends, especially those in Italy, France and Greece...as those are the one's I've mainly dealt with.

It's often like talking to Aliens...they just don't get it or understand it...their mentality is a polar opposite to ours. They see it as being clever, being savvy and ahead of the game. They don't see it as cheating like us.

In fact the more you travel and do business abroad, you soon realise the majority of the world aren't like us.

Football is an International sport with many International influences...it's no surprise it's the way it is in this country.

In saying that...that 'culture' has always been in football.

Getting frustrated and angry about it, is futile...it is what it is. It may not be right...but 'corruption' is in all parts of business throughout the world, not just football.

Why the Telegraph and newspapers and media think it's headline news and a shock is most bizarre imo.

It's a story that many know about....it's not really news.

I agree, but it is still wrong and the powers to be , be that the FA  or Police have a duty to try and stamp this out and bring to book anyone caught taking a bung or defrauding their employer.

Lets not take lessons from Greece and others in southern Europe when it comes to finance.

I think ethical and morally we are poles apart, 

 

 

[spudski]

I totally agree and I don't think anyone on here thinks otherwise.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

if you get caught ‘dragging’ in subbuteo, you maybe punished.

 

if a footballer gets caught in possession of the ball, the team maybe punished.

 

if you are caught by the love of your life with your kippers in the grill, you maybe punished.

 

if you caught in possession of drugs, you may be punished.

 

if you get caught drink driving, hopefully you will be punished.

 

if you get caught speeding, you may well be punished.

 

if you get caught being illegally parked, you may well be punished and so on and so forth, the recurring words are caught and punished, for none of the above will the excuse everybody is at it be acceptable.

 

The Saville scandal is not only a national disgrace but a disgrace to the BBC, the police and people who actually stood by and did **** all knowing what he was doing, but he was never caught so could never be punished and for the record from my Ivory tower sat on my orange packing cases, was I surprised about Saville? was I **** and was I surprised that Sam’s greed got him into trouble again?, was I ****. Mind you a 1mil pay off from the FA for 6 weeks work hardly seems like punishment to me.

 

The question is now will the message about the position that Allardyce’s greed led him into deter others in the professional game?, almost certainly not.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

9 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

That Tommy Wrights bung was only 5k.

Selling himself and the game too cheaply there.

Its a good job a third party exposed Mr Allardyce.

400k is real money to make.

Yes and now he is going to make a million for 67 days work, as reported.  Not bad for just over two months work and nice work if you can get it.  Surely the FA shouldn't pay compensation, as he broke his contract, I presume.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Anyone else been named or caught? I was distracted for a moment, been spending time checking business emails, i’ve just had a reply to my Nigerian prince scam, you’ll never guess who it is?, normally I only fleece people for 10 or 20k but, this guy has just come into 1mil recently, so i’m pushing my luck this time.

[mozo]

12 hours ago, spudski said:

'Bribes' have been going on in football for many many years.

Fans look through rose tinted glasses at old managers of the past, like they were no different to the likes of SA.

Does anyone think the likes of someone like a former great Forest manager were any different? Football has been notorious for 'bungs' over the years. Players, managers and owners. It's been rife. As Steve McClaren said today...the situation with SA could have happened to any one of them.

To call out SA as being Greedy....you may as well stand up and be vociferous about the majority of football then.

One thing worth thinking about...we are British...we like to obey rules, and do the right thing, and we have a very low opinion of people that don't.

Whether you like it or not...a great majority of the rest of the world doesn't work like that. It's their culture to 'grease the palm'...and has been like that for Centuries in all aspects of life. They don't see it as wrong...just a way of making the business wheels go round. They see rules to be broken or get around.

I've often discussed this with European friends, especially those in Italy, France and Greece...as those are the one's I've mainly dealt with.

It's often like talking to Aliens...they just don't get it or understand it...their mentality is a polar opposite to ours. They see it as being clever, being savvy and ahead of the game. They don't see it as cheating like us.

In fact the more you travel and do business abroad, you soon realise the majority of the world aren't like us.

Football is an International sport with many International influences...it's no surprise it's the way it is in this country.

In saying that...that 'culture' has always been in football.

Getting frustrated and angry about it, is futile...it is what it is. It may not be right...but 'corruption' is in all parts of business throughout the world, not just football.

Why the Telegraph and newspapers and media think it's headline news and a shock is most bizarre imo.

It's a story that many know about....it's not really news.

About time it changed then

[Esmond Million's Bung]

And it gets worse, Mary Berry now exposed.