does anyone actually want LJ to stay?

[Red Grovesy]

Many (including myself) thought he should go after Christmas, to give the 'new boss' the chance of the transfer window. It didn't happen, Lee signed six players in the window. The window shut and we still hadn't won - more wanted him gone. Then Feb came and we got that win (against Rotherham, but played terrible). We had 'turned the corner' said some. Had we hell. February has been and gone, more want him gone - but he is still here. Still only the one win since I thought he should go. I just can't see how he can save us now.

[ooRya]

OK, let me try to explain why I want LJ to stay.

I don't believe this season was ever anything other than a building season, with one eye on next season being the year that we really give it a go to challenge for promotion. I believe that this was "the plan" for all concerned at the club.

In a lot of respects we are on schedule for this. We have the infrastructure - great ground and training facilities, and rumoured to be more on the way. We have an owner prepared to fund what's needed. We have Mark Ashton who has shown that he can negotiate to get the players into the club. And we have a clever upcoming manager (I'll come back to that). We are also showing all the signs of investing the right way into the academy/players for the future.

I've been supporting City for 40 years, and this is the first time that I've actually thought that everything is in place to really challenge for a push to the "promised land".

Sadly, and of course there's no hiding from it, results on the pitch have been awful, and seriously run the risk of ruining all of the above. BUT, as long as we stay in the Championship I would maintain that the targets set for this season have all pretty much been met, and then it comes down to the real thing next year.

Now, back to Lee.

For all of the above to work, I think we need to have a Head coach/Manager that believes in what the club are trying to do, and will readily buy in to "the plan". We have that with Lee. Obviously we also need to have a manger that knows how to win games, and again I believe that Lee does (OK I can hear everyone saying WTF! to that comment) Lee comes across as a very clever man and a tactician of the game, and currently I think this is where the problem lies. I think he is maybe one step ahead of where he wants the players to be, and this comes down to confidence/belief. Wasn't it Scott Golbourne that said recently something along the lines of "when we play the way we're asked to, and follow the game plan, everything works, it's only when we stop doing the right things that everything goes wrong".

Personally, I would like SL/The Board to have the conviction and the balls to see this through, and for what it's worth I don't believe City will be relegated this season.

[Robin101]

How many games have we played since we lost at QPR in October? That was the start of our bad run. Is this the worst form we've ever had over a period of 4 and a half months? 

For the record, Forest away was the turning point for me. 

[Eddie Hitler]

44 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

All th sacked managers had plenty of members who disagreed with the decision to fire them.

The fact there is not one comment in support of LJ in the past 24 hours is surely unique.

If you want him to stay please indicate, no reason to even say why................

Yep, I am usually still backing the manager when they are fired.  I didn't want Cotts fired.  (NB - that's not to say I don't agree with it in hindsight - I do).

I don't actually want LJ fired as it happens, I think he should step down and so retain some self-respect and the chance of another managerial job.

[Ska Junkie]

42 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Same timing as me, I'd been wavering for a while - since Cardiff at home - but Fulham was the final straw for me. 

I really really wanted him to work out, possibly more than any other manager we've had in the 12 years or so i've been interested in City. I think he comes across as very likeable, interesting and I appreciate how much info he gave us in press conferences. I've heard first hand accounts of him giving up his own time to help aspiring coaches who are trying to gain their badges. I liked the idea of finishing what his father started. Sadly, it was probably 5 years too early for him at least.

There just needs to be a conclusion to it now. 

 

I'm in total agreement with this. Cardiff at home was my turning point too yet I really did want this to work. I have no doubt that LJ will be a very good coach in the future but it's far too soon for him at this level.

37 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

No....I'm tired of his cliches...if I hear fine lines/margins again I'll lose control....get gone man! 

The problem is SC, that we're going to be beneath the poxy 'fine line'! 

[Vincent Vega]

5 minutes ago, ooRya said:

OK, let me try to explain why I want LJ to stay.

I don't believe this season was ever anything other than a building season, with one eye on next season being the year that we really give it a go to challenge for promotion. I believe that this was "the plan" for all concerned at the club.

In a lot of respects we are on schedule for this. We have the infrastructure - great ground and training facilities, and rumoured to be more on the way. We have an owner prepared to fund what's needed. We have Mark Ashton who has shown that he can negotiate to get the players into the club. And we have a clever upcoming manager (I'll come back to that). We are also showing all the signs of investing the right way into the academy/players for the future.

I've been supporting City for 40 years, and this is the first time that I've actually thought that everything is in place to really challenge for a push to the "promised land".

Sadly, and of course there's no hiding from it, results on the pitch have been awful, and seriously run the risk of ruining all of the above. BUT, as long as we stay in the Championship I would maintain that the targets set for this season have all pretty much been met, and then it comes down to the real thing next year.

Now, back to Lee.

For all of the above to work, I think we need to have a Head coach/Manager that believes in what the club are trying to do, and will readily buy in to "the plan". We have that with Lee. Obviously we also need to have a manger that knows how to win games, and again I believe that Lee does (OK I can hear everyone saying WTF! to that comment) Lee comes across as a very clever man and a tactician of the game, and currently I think this is where the problem lies. I think he is maybe one step ahead of where he wants the players to be, and this comes down to confidence/belief. Wasn't it Scott Golbourne that said recently something along the lines of "when we play the way we're asked to, and follow the game plan, everything works, it's only when we stop doing the right things that everything goes wrong".

Personally, I would like SL/The Board to have the conviction and the balls to see this through, and for what it's worth I don't believe City will be relegated this season.

You put a great argument forward for him to stay and us not to go down . Sadly I think you are wrong on both counts.

[JamesBCFC]

I do (did) but am wavering.

[Chairman Mao]

Wolves on Boxing Day set alarm bells ringing. Reading was the final straw, should've gone then.

[Monkeh]

10 minutes ago, Doozerchris said:

You put a great argument forward for him to stay and us not to go down . Sadly I think you are wrong on both counts.

got to agree with you, posters like @ooRya are dwindling, but a least have put a well thought out post to explain rather then just the blind faith,

 

Johnson has lost the trust of the majority of fans, he's looks like he's lost the trust of the majority of players from recent comments and performances, I just can't see how we can let this continue,

 

[Shtanley]

If we beat burton then yeah. I know it's stupid but I'm bored of the idea of changing managers. I appreciate that my viewpoint borders on ridiculous. Even with this abysmal run it would frustrate me immensely for him to be sacked, simply because he promised so much. 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

If we beat burton then yeah. I know it's stupid but I'm bored of the idea of changing managers. I appreciate that my viewpoint borders on ridiculous. Even with this abysmal run it would frustrate me immensely for him to be sacked, simply because he promised so much. 

I can make the same promises and would cost half as much as Johnson

[Offside]

I started to have serious doubts after the Reading game. The Cardiff game cemented those doubts. Fulham was the very last straw. Last night was just depressing.  Still lots of points to play for, but there's nothing giving me cause for optimism. 

I have zero confidence that we'll stay in this league with LJ at the helm. We are just too easy to beat.

[Rascal]

You need to find a club with more money than sense and sell him to them 

[ciderbeans]

At this rate, SL will only sack him when it's too late for us to recover.

tbh, relegation seems a certainty, as for so long now we haven't addressed any of the issues and still haven't replaced the management and coaching staff. Until we do that, nothing will change.

SL is supposed to be an astute businessman, a self made billionaire, yet he has no business acumen when it comes to football.

Has a regular history of hiring crap/budget managers, and being relegated in our current predicament would be catastrophic financially and would really put progression on the back foot. Keeping Lee Johnson will ensure this catastrophe yet he continues to persue. I just don't get it and it makes me question our seemingly unquestionable owner.

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Where have all the LJ Blind Faith Collective gone again ?

Noticeable missing posters 

Desperately trying to find another pitiful excuse manual ?

 

He was even being talked of as a future England manager on here when he was appointed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Benjam!n Ultra]

2 minutes ago, Rascal said:

You need to find a club with more money than sense and sell him to them 

Fair. 

[Engvall's Splinter]

26th November to be specific. 

We'd squeezed past a poor Blackburn side with a last minute winner weeks previously before losing to QPR and a diar performance on the box against Cardiff. 

Some may suggest that was premature but I've no problem in saying I never wanted Johnson from the outset. The early season performances didn't set pulses racing for me. Often slow out the blocks, stand offish against Newcastle and Villa (first half) and possession based football in the middle of the park. 

Down with a whimper. 

This was a job too early for Johnson (if at all - with opinion divided on him anyways). 

 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

29 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Yep, I am usually still backing the manager when they are fired.  I didn't want Cotts fired.  (NB - that's not to say I don't agree with it in hindsight - I do).

I don't actually want LJ fired as it happens, I think he should step down and so retain some self-respect and the chance of another managerial job.

Yep, can't believe he hasn't stepped down...even Russell Osman tweeted yesterday that he'd 'have walked by now' with LJ's record...

[Mr Popodopolous]

I began to have doubt- like serious doubts after Reading. Yet the sad thing was Reading got their first we all knew what would happen. The early season form had brought him some time from my view. Plus the fact the losses were narrow and we were often in games, and maybe something would turn around.

Things got steadily worse and Fulham was the last straw for me. Saw nothing in that game at all to give me any hope, any hope at all. Any faith, nothing- at least v Sheff Wed at home 2-2 we were competitive, a terrific 1st half at Derby, the fact we only shipped the late goals and maybe if we tightened up or tweaked the tactics things may improve- these little things gave a bit of hope that he would at least keep us up and then go in the summer.

Fulham though was the one- no hope, no positivity, not even the hopes raised then dashed of a late goal. I don't like sacking managers as a rule but he has to go now. Even if we beat Burton, he has to go.

PS- once Lansdown backed him with yet more players in January- that was it, no more excuses, no more nothing.

[Jacki]

31 minutes ago, Doozerchris said:

You put a great argument forward for him to stay and us not to go down . Sadly I think you are wrong on both counts.

As you say, it's a well thought out and reasoned argument. Where it falls down for me is the assertion that we won't go down. I really want to believe that too, but 3 wins in half a season suggests to me that relegation is the most likely outcome of all if we don't make a change.

[BCFC_Dan]

38 minutes ago, ooRya said:

I don't believe this season was ever anything other than a building season, with one eye on next season being the year that we really give it a go to challenge for promotion. I believe that this was "the plan" for all concerned at the club.

 

I'm with you, but the fact is that we're in a very similar position in terms of points and league position to this time last year except this time we're on a downward trajectory rather than an upward one.

Lee Johnson can now put out a team made up entirely of players he's signed. There may be work still to do in the transfer market and on the training pitch but this is his squad and it's not showing significant improvement. Indeed it could be argued that the improved performance at Newcastle was down to the return of some of the old guard: Smith, Reid, and Wilbraham.

I want LJ to succeed. I want us to stay up this season, add a few players in the summer and go for it next year, but the lack of progress in performances, points and league position is very worrying.

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, ooRya said:

OK, let me try to explain why I want LJ to stay.

I don't believe this season was ever anything other than a building season, with one eye on next season being the year that we really give it a go to challenge for promotion. I believe that this was "the plan" for all concerned at the club.

In a lot of respects we are on schedule for this. We have the infrastructure - great ground and training facilities, and rumoured to be more on the way. We have an owner prepared to fund what's needed. We have Mark Ashton who has shown that he can negotiate to get the players into the club. And we have a clever upcoming manager (I'll come back to that). We are also showing all the signs of investing the right way into the academy/players for the future.

I've been supporting City for 40 years, and this is the first time that I've actually thought that everything is in place to really challenge for a push to the "promised land".

Sadly, and of course there's no hiding from it, results on the pitch have been awful, and seriously run the risk of ruining all of the above. BUT, as long as we stay in the Championship I would maintain that the targets set for this season have all pretty much been met, and then it comes down to the real thing next year.

Now, back to Lee.

For all of the above to work, I think we need to have a Head coach/Manager that believes in what the club are trying to do, and will readily buy in to "the plan". We have that with Lee. Obviously we also need to have a manger that knows how to win games, and again I believe that Lee does (OK I can hear everyone saying WTF! to that comment) Lee comes across as a very clever man and a tactician of the game, and currently I think this is where the problem lies. I think he is maybe one step ahead of where he wants the players to be, and this comes down to confidence/belief. Wasn't it Scott Golbourne that said recently something along the lines of "when we play the way we're asked to, and follow the game plan, everything works, it's only when we stop doing the right things that everything goes wrong".

Personally, I would like SL/The Board to have the conviction and the balls to see this through, and for what it's worth I don't believe City will be relegated this season.

That's exactly the same way as I feel...however, I still think it's 50-50 as to whether we will go down.

I think the biggest difference for me these days...is if we go down...do I care?...not really. I've become apathetic. Was quiet good fun in League 1. I also enjoy watching footy at FGR's...it's about the day out for me, not so much the result or where we are in the league.

Football is my hobby...something that's meant to be fun and relaxing. When it's starts effecting how you feel every day, then you know, imo, it's time to reflect a little.

You've only got to read this forum to see how many people are frustrated, angry, unhappy...they post every day. The same things...frustration jumping at you from the screens. I know some spend a lot of time on here, because of 'situations' in their day to day lives, and they have this as an outlet. It becomes all consuming in their lives...it takes over. The Club and the results have a massive effect on some peoples lives it seems.

Of course like anyone I want the Club to do it's best and be successful...however...City and following them, and watching other football Clubs, and taking an interest in coaching and all parts of the game...it's purely a past time, an interest....I'm not going to allow it to get to me.

I see fans with very little money and some who can't afford to go to games, get so involved in following the Club and letting it effect them. What's the point if it makes you angry and frustrated so much? So what if we were to ever win the Championship...what do 'bragging rights' give you in the big picture of your life? Is a Man Utd or Chelsea fans life any better than someone who follows Tranmere for example...or any other Club?

I sat at the Bristol v Bath game on Sunday and just let it wash over me...I do the same when I go to watch GCCC play....chill out with mates, have a few beers, bit of banter, maybe an Indian....and just watch the game.

I thought on Sunday...I should be more like this when watching City. What's the point in getting frustrated.

SL's a multi millionaire...the players get paid thousands, it's a job to them. Do they sit at home or work going mental? I doubt it. I'm a normal bloke paying to watch people at work...it's no longer a Club, it's a business. The results on the field shouldn't really effect how I feel. Granted it's great when you win...but I'm not gonna let it spoil my days anymore.

I'm embracing apathy...haha ;-)

 

[Red Army 75]

Well for all the millions spent on players and the stadium. And the right DNA whatever the **** that means. I just looked at the fixtures we could get next season . Have a look everyone it just really hits home . So frustrated is an understatement. And on that basis Johnson you're FIRED

[Scrumpty]

47 minutes ago, ooRya said:

OK, let me try to explain why I want LJ to stay.

I don't believe this season was ever anything other than a building season, with one eye on next season being the year that we really give it a go to challenge for promotion. I believe that this was "the plan" for all concerned at the club.

In a lot of respects we are on schedule for this. We have the infrastructure - great ground and training facilities, and rumoured to be more on the way. We have an owner prepared to fund what's needed. We have Mark Ashton who has shown that he can negotiate to get the players into the club. And we have a clever upcoming manager (I'll come back to that). We are also showing all the signs of investing the right way into the academy/players for the future.

I've been supporting City for 40 years, and this is the first time that I've actually thought that everything is in place to really challenge for a push to the "promised land".

Sadly, and of course there's no hiding from it, results on the pitch have been awful, and seriously run the risk of ruining all of the above. BUT, as long as we stay in the Championship I would maintain that the targets set for this season have all pretty much been met, and then it comes down to the real thing next year.

Now, back to Lee.

For all of the above to work, I think we need to have a Head coach/Manager that believes in what the club are trying to do, and will readily buy in to "the plan". We have that with Lee. Obviously we also need to have a manger that knows how to win games, and again I believe that Lee does (OK I can hear everyone saying WTF! to that comment) Lee comes across as a very clever man and a tactician of the game, and currently I think this is where the problem lies. I think he is maybe one step ahead of where he wants the players to be, and this comes down to confidence/belief. Wasn't it Scott Golbourne that said recently something along the lines of "when we play the way we're asked to, and follow the game plan, everything works, it's only when we stop doing the right things that everything goes wrong".

Personally, I would like SL/The Board to have the conviction and the balls to see this through, and for what it's worth I don't believe City will be relegated this season.

Brave and well reasoned post. I disagree with some of your conclusions/observations, as I question LJ's tactical nouse and ability to consistently motivate experienced pros and 'characters'. This could come with experience/help and LJ has shown a willingness to learn. However, he has lost credibility with the current bunch of players, which is reflected in results.

Furthermore, I think he lacks the ability/experience to turn things around (reference our dire form and similar run at Barnsley) and, for these reasons it's time to say goodbye. 

[downendcity]

Ive always wanted LJ to succeed.

I thought he could turn it around, but my confidence eroded after the manner of the Reading and Cardiff defeats. After throwing away leads at Derby and Newcastle I could see no way back for him and now , sadly, believe that if he remains in charge we will go down.

Under his management  the team has developed a mental fragility that he seems unable and incapable of changing.

[Bob Thompson]

I use my own name. I have never spoken to LJ or his father or any of the present players. I be!ieve he has the making of a good manager. I don't know who is fit or who finds the players. I believe that LJ has the making of a good football coach.Whether he can be a good manager is another question. The abuse that all coaches get is intolerable and this certainly effects their judgement. We all the increases at city with the various departments a review of the running of the club should certainly be appraised. In the meantime we stick with the coaches and players until the end of the season.  33 is a young age to manage footballers, perhaps the job came too soon and an older head  to assist might help. Just stating he is useless without clarification does not help any. LJ stays at least to the end of the season and even longer in some capacity.

[Bs4Red]

I am very much 50/50, I must admit up until the Fulham game I was fully backing him. 

In my honest opinion I believe LJ will become a great manager in the future, he's passionate, willing to learn and still very young. He also believes and cares about the future of this club. 

Man United very nearly sacked SAF at the start of his career and look what they were rewarded with for not doing so (slightly different but best I could think off top of my head)

I am also baffled throughout this run and season just how lightly the players have got off, some of them have been an absolute disgrace. The blatant lack of effort and passion is there to see. You can tell me "the manager doesn't get the best out of them" I personally believe that if this is the case for some of our players it shows why they're where they are. Top players perform no matter who the manager, and they at least put the effort required.

My reasoning mainly for wanting him to stay is 3 reasons.

1. He has proven already that when he gets it right, we look a great team (First 15 games or so)

2. He's young and still learning, yes he does make mistakes but that's going to happen. 

3. I don't think we will go down and I also believe he will get it right eventually 

Surely we are all bored of the same old cycle of managers at this club. 

[ooRya]

5 minutes ago, Scrumpty said:

Brave and well reasoned post. I disagree with some of your conclusions/observations, as I question LJ's tactical nouse and ability to consistently motivate experienced pros and 'characters'. This could come with experience/help and LJ has shown a willingness to learn. However, he has lost credibility with the current bunch of players, which is reflected in results.

Furthermore, I think he lacks the ability/experience to turn things around (reference our dire form and similar run at Barnsley) and, for these reasons it's time to say goodbye. 

I think what Lee really lacks is Experience and Respect. Unfortunately both only come once you have earned them over time.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, bcfcfinker said:

Now now Bob, the post has only been up about 15 minutes, not all of us live on the board, some people have jobs that don't allow them to hang on every word spoken by OTIB posters etc.

The post is 'Does anyone actually want LJ to Stay?' - a 'look at me, I'm one of you guys' posts.

Let's face it, LJ is no longer walking on thin ice, he's actually walking on water. If he's still here on Saturday, I suspect that he'll have to dish out a thrashing to Burton to keep his job, but then again, I'm not SL. It will be SL who decides ultimately and I take my hard hat off to him for resisting pressure from fan groups who want LJ gone.

To the question, do I support LJ? Yes (I've put my hard hat back on and donned my protective clothing as directed by Health and Safety), with provisos:

He doesn't take us into the relegation zone

Now, am I allowed to support LJ, and the team as a whole for that matter, or has OTIB been hijacked by a mob? I'll find out soon enough.

 

Ok 

Serious q then finker as this is something that personally I find bizarre in all this (And you aren't  only one who's said this)

What bloody difference does it make if we are above the relegation zone (On GD and for now) or in it ? Or even if we are 3 places above it but sinking like a stone ?

Games are running out for this crazy (IMHO) argument

For example if we hover above it until the final game (And I'm sure we will be in it before than) and then drop in and get relegated on the final day , would you say 'Oh shucks'

Its about where we are heading surely ?

Id also like to know why you still support LJ (Not the team on match day) and on what basis do you think he's going to turn this around ? ((Maybe you are quite happy , as it appears , to be relegated if as long as people back LJ ?)

I shall be genuinely interested in your reasons 

 

 

[miketh2nd]

37 minutes ago, ooRya said:

OK, let me try to explain why I want LJ to stay.

I don't believe this season was ever anything other than a building season, with one eye on next season being the year that we really give it a go to challenge for promotion. I believe that this was "the plan" for all concerned at the club.

In a lot of respects we are on schedule for this. We have the infrastructure - great ground and training facilities, and rumoured to be more on the way. We have an owner prepared to fund what's needed. We have Mark Ashton who has shown that he can negotiate to get the players into the club. And we have a clever upcoming manager (I'll come back to that). We are also showing all the signs of investing the right way into the academy/players for the future.

I've been supporting City for 40 years, and this is the first time that I've actually thought that everything is in place to really challenge for a push to the "promised land".

Sadly, and of course there's no hiding from it, results on the pitch have been awful, and seriously run the risk of ruining all of the above. BUT, as long as we stay in the Championship I would maintain that the targets set for this season have all pretty much been met, and then it comes down to the real thing next year.

Now, back to Lee.

For all of the above to work, I think we need to have a Head coach/Manager that believes in what the club are trying to do, and will readily buy in to "the plan". We have that with Lee. Obviously we also need to have a manger that knows how to win games, and again I believe that Lee does (OK I can hear everyone saying WTF! to that comment) Lee comes across as a very clever man and a tactician of the game, and currently I think this is where the problem lies. I think he is maybe one step ahead of where he wants the players to be, and this comes down to confidence/belief. Wasn't it Scott Golbourne that said recently something along the lines of "when we play the way we're asked to, and follow the game plan, everything works, it's only when we stop doing the right things that everything goes wrong".

Personally, I would like SL/The Board to have the conviction and the balls to see this through, and for what it's worth I don't believe City will be relegated this season.

Fair play to you as you obviously have good experience of the good the bad and ugly times. 

I really think Johnson could keep us up,  he has it in  the locker see last season's form from when he took over and the start of the season.  The main problem with his game plans appear we either go all guns blazing for a win which worked at the start of the season.  Then the flip side Is to defend most of the time or defend once we get ahead.  

If you take away all the talk about modern technology/intellectual  manner and the fact he doesn't ignore the youth so much...he is actually a pretty similar manager to his Dad...the way we play decent footy but always seem to only losing by a few goals and trying to maintain leads....the way he puts go for broke subs in the 2nd half ( mcombe up top).  Not saying he is the same but there are definitely similarities. 

I really agree that city seem to have it right in terms of the background staff young players.  SL Has been trying to set the club up properly fair to him hence the Del and Sod appointments   the five pillars.  Cotterill appears to have been a different approach regarding recruitment the youth etc... But unless he got us to the prem SL was never going to see eye to eye even from the word go.

Then we have LJ who he has backed massively,  I might get slated here but I wish we could have the same approach as barnsley and have  a plan b if there manager gets bought or needs to be sacked.  

I think this is where SL has failed,  as many have known for a long time.  He has been far too invested/loyal and let his emotion Ties to the Johnson family take over his gut feeling.  I'm sure SL himself knows deep down if it was another manager with this form that they would of been sacked already.  

Even though I do want LJ gone now   I'm still very happy to actually have a passionate city fan that owns my football club and I can be very proud of that!