Danny Wilson - where it all started

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

It's bloody easy to sit behind a computer screen and criticise Lansdown for his managerial choices. 

Let's remind ourselves that the vast majority of fans thought Coppell and O'Driscoll were GREAT appointments. Even LJ and McInnes had more supporters than doubters when they were appointed. Scroll back to last January on here if you don't believe me. Lots of posters seem to have developed highly selective memory.

In terms of experience v young managers, it's worth remembering every manager was new to the trade once. How many clubs had Eddie Howe managed before Bournemouth appointed him?

I'm afraid you live by the sword and die by it, mate. SL has put himself in a position where he owns 95% of the club. There are no other meaningful shareholders other than Dawe. Other shareholders such as myself and many others were long cut-off from having any say in how the club is run through AGMs.

The club hasn't been particularly transparent over the years as to why it's made the managerial appoints it has. The managerial appointments are largely the decision of someone who had no experience in the football industry until he was 50 years old and his record at appointing managers who go on to have success at City is 1 in 9 so far as I can make out. That's not a great strike rate, in fact it's a very poor one.

We haven't even had a manager who's just stabilised us, they are all kept on until their reigns end in spectacular failure.

Coppell and O'Shizzle may well have looked like good appointments to supporters; why didn't they succeed? Either because they weren't up to the job or didn't want it. Or quite possibly, in the case of McInnes for example (who has been a success at his two other clubs) weren't supported properly behind the scenes. Either way you cut it, it comes back to the man at the top.

Ultimately HE (or the Lansdown family more broadly) are responsible for the last 14 years and they still don't appear to have a scoobies of how to sustain C'Ship football, let alone their stated aim of Premier League football, despite throwing a huge amount of money into the club.

[Midlands Robin]

Maybe I read to much into the original piece. I've been trying to locate it on the web this morning with no success.

I put it down to a cider pickled memory.

I do recall that Laycock and Davidson fell out over the appointment of Tony Fawthrop as manager which caused Davidson to resign when he was out voted.

[Kid in the Riot]

24 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Agree with you about SOD mate. Lots of noise about how great he was at Doncaster. However there were mutterings about Coppell, confirmed in his first interview when bizarrely he said he didn't know why he had taken the City job!

I still maintain SOD was here during a time of great change at the club and is the only manager I can think of recently who has GENUINELY had to slash the wage bill by quite a considerable amount (due to FFP). However, ultimately he clearly wasn't up to the job and his lack of communication with SL was another big reason for his departure.

Coppell is on record as saying he told SL that Millen was doing a perfectly good job at the time he was approached (which he was) and that SL should appoint Millen...now, alarm bells would surely be ringing at this point?

[Red-Robbo]

37 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm afraid you live by the sword and die by it, mate. SL has put himself in a position where he owns 95% of the club. There are no other meaningful shareholders other than Dawe. Other shareholders such as myself and many others were long cut-off from having any say in how the club is run through AGMs.

The club hasn't been particularly transparent over the years as to why it's made the managerial appoints it has. The managerial appointments are largely the decision of someone who had no experience in the football industry until he was 50 years old and his record at appointing managers who go on to have success at City is 1 in 9 so far as I can make out. That's not a great strike rate, in fact it's a very poor one.

We haven't even had a manager who's just stabilised us, they are all kept on until their reigns end in spectacular failure.

Coppell and O'Shizzle may well have looked like good appointments to supporters; why didn't they succeed? Either because they weren't up to the job or didn't want it. Or quite possibly, in the case of McInnes for example (who has been a success at his two other clubs) weren't supported properly behind the scenes. Either way you cut it, it comes back to the man at the top.

Ultimately HE (or the Lansdown family more broadly) are responsible for the last 14 years and they still don't appear to have a scoobies of how to sustain C'Ship football, let alone their stated aim of Premier League football, despite throwing a huge amount of money into the club.

I didn't know you were a fellow shareholder, Kid. Put our collective holdings together and we might be able force change through. We just need to persuade Lansdown to let us have 49.999% of his stake on tick. 

[oldstandrobin]

Wouldnt be at all surprised to see Danny back here in some capacity as now finished at Chesterfield

[Rich_s]

6 hours ago, tinman85 said:

I was always a Scott Davidson fan. He had the Simon Jordan ruthless streak. What is Scott up to these days? 

Can't remember who we were playing but the ref made one or two game playing decisions against us in the first half. Scott was incandescent. As half-time approached he marched from the directors box in the Williams down to the touchline. As soon as the ref blew for half-time, Scott marched onto the pitch and squared up to the ref. Ahh, happy times. Football seems so tame these days. What happened the half-time entertainment of mascots squaring up to each other.

 

[22A]

I see Tony Pulis & Dave Moyes have been mentioned. In July 1999, Tony Pulis was appointed manager. He had led Gillingham to the playoff final only two months before, but had then been sacked for “Gross Misconduct”.  Despite this, City still had to pay some compensation to Gillingham. City had wanted ex City player David Moyes as manager, but Preston, who he now managed, twice refused permission for Davidson to talk to Moyes, who then led Preston to the division championship. At the end of June 2000, Danny Wilson was appointed as City’s fifth Manager in 18 months on an 18 month contract. As part of the deal he agreed to keep the existing coaching staff rather than bring in his own men.

[Olé]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has put himself in a position where he owns 95% of the club. There are no other meaningful shareholders other than Dawe. Other shareholders such as myself and many others were long cut-off from having any say in how the club is run through AGMs.

Understand the wider point you're making mate and don't disagree with it, but just thinking aloud here (and it's clear to me I don't know nearly enough about the club ownership structure as you and others): If you're SL and you're going to spend a lot of your own money on the club, surely you need a level of ownership that protects against there being any other significant shareholdings who simply release equity which you've created.

I know the ground is separately owned, but when SL buys a bunch of players for the club and it gets promoted, if he was only a 51% or 60% shareholder and there was one or two other significant shareholdings of 20%, they could presumably sell their shares of the improved club at a profit from nothing other than SL's investments. SL is just ensuring his spending can benefit only him (hypothetically), the club, and those who support it.

That's not to excuse a lack of scrutiny or openness, just trying to rationalise the thought process because he doesn't need 95% to call the shots.

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Rich_s said:

Can't remember who we were playing but the ref made one or two game playing decisions against us in the first half. Scott was incandescent. As half-time approached he marched from the directors box in the Williams down to the touchline. As soon as the ref blew for half-time, Scott marched onto the pitch and squared up to the ref. 

It was full-time and from memory it was a 1-0 home defeat to Sunderland (then top or near the top) where they were awarded a last minute penalty.

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, oldstandrobin said:

Wouldnt be at all surprised to see Danny back here in some capacity as now finished at Chesterfield

Has Scott Murray resigned as kitman? 

[oldstandrobin]

12 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Has Scott Murray resigned as kitman? 

you heard it here first Reg 

[Kid in the Riot]

28 minutes ago, Olé said:

Understand the wider point you're making mate and don't disagree with it, but just thinking aloud here (and it's clear to me I don't know nearly enough about the club ownership structure as you and others): If you're SL and you're going to spend a lot of your own money on the club, surely you need a level of ownership that protects against there being any other significant shareholdings who simply release equity which you've created.

I know the ground is separately owned, but when SL buys a bunch of players for the club and it gets promoted, if he was only a 51% or 60% shareholder and there was one or two other significant shareholdings of 20%, they could presumably sell their shares of the improved club at a profit from nothing other than SL's investments. SL is just ensuring his spending can benefit only him (hypothetically), the club, and those who support it.

That's not to excuse a lack of scrutiny or openness, just trying to rationalise the thought process because he doesn't need 95% to call the shots.

Yes, effectively he has bought 95% of the club so he wants 95% control of it! As we discussed earlier in this thread (or another?) any collective decision-making that you'd usually expect to be made by a board is redundant because one man has such a large slice of the pie and wants to have the absolute power that his investment, he would no doubt say, deserves/is entitled to.

[Lack of Action Man]

17 hours ago, Robbored said:

My sentiments exactly. His team was a dream to watch. His was an enjoyable era for me.

It was a shame that he allowed his players to piss it up so much but back in his playing days going out on the piss as a team was a bonding exercise. He never saw a problem with it.

Very enjoyable era. Despite the drinking culture, there were players who played for our shirt in that team. And not only that, they were damn good players too - too good for that league. 

And what about Hartlepool? What a team they had in that era too. 

[alexukhc]

15 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

Very enjoyable era. Despite the drinking culture, there were players who played for our shirt in that team. And not only that, they were damn good players too - too good for that league. 

And what about Hartlepool? What a team they had in that era too. 

Yes despite hanging out their arses they put in more of a shift than the lot out there nowadays, Mansfield today wouldn't happen

[Aizoon]

18 hours ago, AzerbaijanApeman said:

I thought it was incredibly harsh to sack Wilson on the back of the play-off final defeat, even though we'd thrown away promotion; give him the first few games of the new season - I reckon he'd've taken us up in 04/05. What we got for the next couple of seasons was a heck of a lot worse than a one-goal playoff final defeat.

Lansdown on Danny Wilson "I made such a big mistake when I was Mary's prayer."

I jest of course, that was the other Danny Wilson. And Lansdown would never fess up to a mistake.

It wasn't on the back of the defeat. It was the suspicion that he threw the game by not even having Lita on the bench. We didn't even turn up for one on the worst games I've ever seen City play. At least against Hull we fought for it.

[Robbored]

3 hours ago, oldstandrobin said:

Wouldnt be at all surprised to see Danny back here in some capacity as now finished at Chesterfield

I would!

Not because I wouldn't want him back at AG

Obviously we don't know the details about his dismissal but ( and I'm guessing here) there may have been an issue between SL and DW.........

I know we didn't win anything under DW but his style of football was a joy to watch - I struggle to think of any better, except maybe the 76 promotion season under Dicks. That was 40+ years ago and it's a struggle for me to remember that far back.........

[oldstandrobin]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I would!

Not because I wouldn't want him back at AG

Obviously we don't know the details about his dismissal but ( and I'm guessing here) there may have been an issue between SL and DW.........

I know we didn't win anything under DW but his style of football was a joy to watch - I struggle to think of any better, except maybe the 76 promotion season under Dicks. That was 40+ years ago and it's a struggle for me to remember that far back.........

RR, stranger things have happened with our owner................watch this space 

[Lack of Action Man]

42 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

RR, stranger things have happened with our owner................watch this space 

Question is though, will he start Lita this time around?

[Trueredsupporter]

Nick j Steve Lansdown has bank roiled the club. nobody has come up with any alternatives. Steve Lansdown has rebuilt the ground. nobody came up with an alternative. you called him our owner and fans have been happy in the main with the status quo of Steve Lansdown being the owner and in control of BCFC ????

[foghornred]

I have to say that when Danny Wilson was here we player some fantastic football with Tinman in the middle and Scotty on the wing it was great to watch and we won more games than we lost,

It was a happy time and there was not so much anti club as there is now.

[oldstandrobin]

2 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

Question is though, will he start Lita this time around?

No but he might start Engvall so we can remember what he looks like 

[Tears in rain]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I still maintain SOD was here during a time of great change at the club and is the only manager I can think of recently who has GENUINELY had to slash the wage bill by quite a considerable amount (due to FFP). However, ultimately he clearly wasn't up to the job and his lack of communication with SL was another big reason for his departure.

Coppell is on record as saying he told SL that Millen was doing a perfectly good job at the time he was approached (which he was) and that SL should appoint Millen...now, alarm bells would surely be ringing at this point?

I think Derick Mcinnis had the same issue. Recall a lot of the time he was saying how crazy the wages were and how balancing that with results on the pitch was nightmare.  

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

I would!

Not because I wouldn't want him back at AG

Obviously we don't know the details about his dismissal but ( and I'm guessing here) there may have been an issue between SL and DW.........

 

I think the issue might have been he got us close, but no cigar. Lansdown and pretty much everyone else thought he has got us as far as he can go, having had numerous goes at it.

There was nothing personal about it. They remained in touch afterwards.

The fact Wilson kept on the bench(or left out entirely) a player whose class was obvious (and who went on to play in the Prem 2 seasons later) didn't help his cause.

[freezer]

On 01/03/2017 at 23:22, OddBallJim said:

 

I miss Danny Wilson's City. We played fantastic football back then.

Oh how that play-off final was such a balls up.

I can remember that all to well unfortunately.

Such hope and promise.

But, due to Mr Wilson getting out of his pocket the first edition of football cliches, he said before the game that "Winning is Everything". Following our defeat he said, "Defeat is not Failure".

You can't have it all ways. Results are results.

 

[TV Tom]

Remind me what Danny Wilson has done since, I think he's failed at every club 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Nick j Steve Lansdown has bank roiled the club. nobody has come up with any alternatives. Steve Lansdown has rebuilt the ground. Despite him saying redeveloping AG is not an option? nobody came up with an alternative. you called him our owner and fans have been happy in the main with the status quo of Steve Lansdown being the owner and in control of BCFC ????

The club survived before he was here and will do when he is not; no-one asked us the paying "customers" if we wanted to be part of Bristol Sport; it seems to me its his way or the highway; Everything is now like that ......seems the only one he listens to is LJ.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, glos old boy said:

The club survived before he was here and will do when he is not; no-one asked us the paying "customers" if we wanted to be part of Bristol Sport; it seems to me its his way or the highway; Everything is now like that ......seems the only one he listens to is LJ.

The club struggled economically before SL arrived .......and if wasn't for his generosity and commitment to our club we could well have ended up like Swindon Town......

I don't have the slightest problem with Bristol Sport. To have all Bristol sports under the same umbrella is an innovative idea - even if SL got the concept from Barcelona, it's not something I know of in any other English city. We should be proud of it instead of being precious and insular like some City fans are.

I don't have an issue either with SL and his seemingly "my way or the highway" approach as you put it. He's the majority share holder but doesn't abuse that like certain other owners have at other clubs. His heart is in the right place in my opinion even though he hasn't had much joy with his managerial appointments..

 

 

[Robbored]

9 hours ago, freezer said:

 

But, due to Mr Wilson getting out of his pocket the first edition of football cliches, he said before the game that "Winning is Everything". Following our defeat he said, "Defeat is not Failure".

 

I thought it was SoD who said that?

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

16 hours ago, Robbored said:

I would!

Not because I wouldn't want him back at AG

Obviously we don't know the details about his dismissal but ( and I'm guessing here) there may have been an issue between SL and DW.........

I know we didn't win anything under DW but his style of football was a joy to watch - I struggle to think of any better, except maybe the 76 promotion season under Dicks. That was 40+ years ago and it's a struggle for me to remember that far back.........

Good God Alan!   I'm 71 and I can remember lot's about those four years in the top flight and apart from poor Cheesley, what a great time for City fans. How are you BTW?

[Cowshed]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

The club struggled economically before SL arrived .......and if wasn't for his generosity and commitment to our club we could well have ended up like Swindon Town......

I don't have the slightest problem with Bristol Sport. To have all Bristol sports under the same umbrella is an innovative idea - even if SL got the concept from Barcelona, it's not something I know of in any other English city. We should be proud of it instead of being precious and insular like some City fans are.

I don't have an issue either with SL and his seemingly "my way or the highway" approach as you put it. He's the majority share holder but doesn't abuse that like certain other owners have at other clubs. His heart is in the right place in my opinion even though he hasn't had much joy with his managerial appointments..

 

 

The Bristol Sport concept is not similar to Barcelona. Not at its grass roots, not at is apex. Fans cannot be voting members and have a say in its operation. It is a oddity with no obvious models to parallel.

Bristol Sport little community prescience ... That is from somebody heavily involved in grass roots football. 

Out of interest. How did the clubs accounts look in the years leading up to Mr Lansdowns take over? Using those accounts how would BCFC end up like STFC?

STFC were caught out for financial irregularity. BCFC are far as I know under John Laycock were a very tight and clean ship.

The above is no dig at Mr Lansdown. I believe the club is financially secure with its owner, the appointment of Managers and Coaches I feel should be entrusted to people versed in football rather than finance.