Lansdown the real story

[View from the Dolman]

34 minutes ago, NickJ said:

There is not one single area of the ground that says, this is the home of Bristol City

So if you walk into the south stand concourse, who would you say it's the home of?

[NickJ]

4 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

So if you walk into the south stand concourse, who would you say it's the home of?

I don't know I have not been there, that's partly why I stand to be corrected on any aspect.

But even if its emblazoned with Forza Eastend murals and City flags, which it won't be, the fact remains that overall Ashton Gate no longer feels as though it is owned by Bristol City.

[DT The Optimist]

3 minutes ago, NickJ said:

I don't know I have not been there, that's partly why I stand to be corrected on any aspect.

But even if its emblazoned with Forza Eastend murals and City flags, which it won't be, the fact remains that overall Ashton Gate no longer feels as though it is owned by Bristol City.

Sorry NickJ but cannot agree with that. I respect your view but disagree.   Almost without exception the people i sit with, not friends, just card holders for donkey years, are all amazed still by the stadium and the whole match day experience.  (And that is with a poor product in general on the pitch.)  If we ever fly and start hitting excess of 25k.  The atmosphere is amazing still.  Yes, we share it with Bristol Rugby. So what.  The pitch is brilliant still.  That what counts.  On match day it is the home of Bristol City FC. That will always remain the case. 

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

I don't know I have not been there, that's partly why I stand to be corrected on any aspect.

But even if its emblazoned with Forza Eastend murals and City flags, which it won't be, the fact remains that overall Ashton Gate no longer feels as though it is owned by Bristol City.

Why make a sweeping statement like "there is not a single area that screams Bristol City" if you're not qualified to make it? Emblazoned with murals is exactly what the South Stand is. Perhaps try educating yourself on the facts before making accusations you cannot back up.

I guess the recent addition of the Atyeo statue and "Marina Dolman Way" must also be quite inconvenient for your argument?

[Dave]

14 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Why make a sweeping statement like "there is not a single area that screams Bristol City" if you're not qualified to make it? Emblazoned with murals is exactly what the South Stand is. Perhaps try educating yourself on the facts before making accusations you cannot back up.

I guess the recent addition of the Atyeo statue and "Marina Dolman Way" must also be quite inconvenient for your argument?

and don't forget the Ian Cottle Wheelchair Area.

[gazza1982]

5 hours ago, bs3 said:

Every City fan I speak to, and are friends with and meet, feel that the club is going in the wrong direction and SL is alienating the fans. 

Also reading the comments on here and on other social media sites , radio phone in, the majority are completely disillusioned with club, manager and owner.

 

I disagree the majority are disillusioned with SL. Have a read though some of the posts on here specifically since his interview and the majority support him. 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

18 hours ago, 1953 said:

And show me a club, Leicester aside, where its bought success and harmony.

Man City...

[BS4 on Tour...]

8 hours ago, bs3 said:

Cardiff have been to an FA cup final, played in the Premier League and are in mid table not struggling to stay in this division.

I would swap places with Cardiff 

Don't forget their League Cup Final appearance in 2012...

[1953]

Cardiff have had their moments, but I bet you'd have kicked off if City had been told to play in blue. Or if Colin was manager. Man City are an example of money bringing in success, but they were serious long term investors. Ask Forest.  Ask Villa. Ask QPR. Ask Blackburn. There are many where it hasnt. I'm just saying the grass isn't greener and it still needs cutting.

[Cowshed]

8 hours ago, reddogkev said:

In my opinion, Stephen Lansdown is a City legend and has done massive amounts for the club, completely for our benefit, when he could have been using his vast sums of money for a multitude of other possibilities around the globe.  I do not understand any criticism of such a great man, irrespective of some ill-judged comments yesterday.

Any fan who questions his actions, motivations, or what he has done for City baffles me.

SL is only guilty of showing too much loyalty to LJ when most other chairmen would not have.  But he clearly admires, likes, and respects LJ and sees him as a manager capable of developing City in the correct way.  As it now seems, we will stay up this season and Lee would've learnt an incredible amount from the problems we've faced.

I cannot believe the need to defend a man who has sanctioned a sensational redevelopment of Ashton Gate, oversaw promotions from League One, and during his tenure, had the club one game away from the Prem.

Can you explain what the benefits are of:

Bristol City and its fans no longer owning Ashton Gate?

What are the benefits to Bristol City fans of the clubs constitution being changed to allow one individual to take total control of the FC?

What were the benefits to stakeholders (fans) in BCFC seeing their shareholding being diluted to a point where fans can longer hold those running the FC to any accountability for poor performance? 

And finally can you explain apart from being fabulously rich what football experience Mr Lansdown has to make informed long tern decisions on who is Managing the team?

Easy questions for anybody with such a unequivocal view that all the above has been done for our benefit.

 

 

 

[Roger Red Hat]

20 hours ago, 1953 said:

So all the moaners want him to take a hike.

I don't believe that 'all' the moaners want him to take a hike, but they do want something different than has been on offer recently from the custodians of 'our' club.

[1953]

6 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

I don't believe that 'all' the moaners want him to take a hike, but they do want something different than has been on offer recently from the custodians of 'our' club.

A lot on here do, or so they would have us all believe......though empty vessels make most noise. For my money stability isnt to be sniffed at. You build from a solid base upwards. 

[ChippenhamRed]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Can you explain what the benefits are of:

Bristol City and its fans no longer owning Ashton Gate?

What are the benefits to Bristol City fans of the clubs constitution being changed to allow one individual to take total control of the FC?

What were the benefits to stakeholders (fans) in BCFC seeing their shareholding being diluted to a point where fans can longer hold those running the FC to any accountability for poor performance? 

And finally can you explain apart from being fabulously rich what football experience Mr Lansdown has to make informed long tern decisions on who is Managing the team?

Easy questions for anybody with such a unequivocal view that all the above has been done for our benefit.

 

 

 

Please show me these clubs where the owner doesn't have a say in who the manager is.

You think Ambramovich has no say at Chelsea?

Levy at Spurs?

The Glazers at United?

The chicken farmers at Blackburn?

None of the above are football coaches. But, just like in any other business, the guy who owns it ultimately gets to make the final call on the company's biggest decisions. That is entirely reasonable, entirely normal, and nothing new at all. It's his investment so he gets his say.

Not sure why this appears to have come as a shock to people, as if it is something new.

Oh, and a genuine question for someone with more knowledge than me - when was the last time Ashton Gate was owned by the fans?

[Port Said Red]

I haven't listened to the interview and I have read a few comments on OTIB that seem to contradict each other as to what was said. Like many of these things, people read into these things what they will. What I do think is that when i see some of the comments on here, and if I was SL reading them, then my response would be **** the ungrateful bastards! 

So if that's what you read into the interview, maybe thats what he was thinking.

[screech]

3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Please show me these clubs where the owner doesn't have a say in who the manager is.

You think Ambramovich has no say at Chelsea?

Levy at Spurs?

The Glazers at United?

The chicken farmers at Blackburn?

None of the above are football coaches. But, just like in any other business, the guy who owns it ultimately gets to make the final call on the company's biggest decisions. That is entirely reasonable, entirely normal, and nothing new at all. It's his investment so he gets his say.

Not sure why this appears to have come as a shock to people, as if it is something new.

Oh, and a genuine question for someone with more knowledge than me - when was the last time Ashton Gate was owned by the fans?

I'm not actually sure why some are looking for downsides to having a local billionaire fan owning the football club.

He's admitted he makes mistakes, who doesn't, he's always covered those mistakes financially. Quite why we have fans constantly having a pop for him trying to better our club I don't know.

I'm trying to find my certificate as well where it said I part owned the ground.

[Cowshed]

14 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Please show me these clubs where the owner doesn't have a say in who the manager is.

You think Ambramovich has no say at Chelsea?

Levy at Spurs?

The Glazers at United?

The chicken farmers at Blackburn?

None of the above are football coaches. But, just like in any other business, the guy who owns it ultimately gets to make the final call on the company's biggest decisions. That is entirely reasonable, entirely normal, and nothing new at all. It's his investment so he gets his say.

Not sure why this appears to have come as a shock to people, as if it is something new.

Oh, and a genuine question for someone with more knowledge than me - when was the last time Ashton Gate was owned by the fans?

You did not answer the questions on behalf of another poster who cannot understand any critique of Mr Lansdown.

I asked what football experience Mr Lansdown has to make informed long term football decisions? It is entirely normal for that to be a board decision. From the small to Champions league winners.

Oh, and a genuine question for someone with more knowledge than me - when was the last time Ashton Gate was owned by the fans? Bristol City was owned by its fans (shareholders) from 1982 till Mr Lansdown's shareholding surpassed that if of its fans (shareholders), so last ten years or so. 

It's his investment so he gets his say.... Yes it is all his, all of it. He gets all the say. But that brings into question what the FC is. A Club? Hardly.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You did not answer the questions on behalf of another poster.

I asked what football experience Mr Lansdown has to make informed long term football decisions? It is entirely normal for that to be a board decision. From the small to Champions league winners.

Oh, and a genuine question for someone with more knowledge than me - when was the last time Ashton Gate was owned by the fans? Bristol City was owned by its fans (shareholders) from 1982 till Mr Lansdown's shareholding surpassed that if its fans (shareholders), so last ten years or so. 

It's his investment so he gets his say.... Yes it is all his, all of it. He gets all the say. But that brings into question what the FC is. A Club? Hardly.

If you're defining "fan" as "shareholder" then it's still fan-owned, because SL is quite clearly a fan. Thankfully a enormously wealthy fan who has been able to redevelop said stadium into a modern 27,000 seater arena. I'd probably say that's a benefit of the "fans not owning the stadium", if that's how you want to paint it.

[Natchfever]

4 hours ago, NickJ said:

My observation on our great stadium.

It does not scream out Bristol City.

The concourse of the Lansdown Stand, the main entry point and what should be the focal point of OUR club and OUR stadium. I have been in there only once, but what was eye catching was the walls covered in the history of Bristol Rugby. I made this point before, and somebody said that there are pictures of Bristol City legends on the ceiling. Maybe there are, not looking up I didn't even notice, but I don't think anybody could deny that Bristol Rugby predominates that key area.

The concourse of the Dolman is covered in pictures of local sporting greats, not Bristol City greats.

There is not one single area of the ground that says, this is the home of Bristol City, in fact going back to that main concourse, I would say it gives the impression of being the home of Bristol Rugby with the football club as its tenant.

And before anybody mentions the Atyeo statue, I believe this was funded by the Supporters Trust, Lansdown and Bristol Sport were not interested.

Stand to be corrected if any of the above is not accurate.

Rugby equals the quickest and cheapest means of reflected glory. Now the priority.

[screech]

Just now, Cowshed said:

You did not answer the questions on behalf of another poster.

I asked what football experience Mr Lansdown has to make informed long term football decisions? It is entirely normal for that to be a board decision. From the small to Champions league winners.

Oh, and a genuine question for someone with more knowledge than me - when was the last time Ashton Gate was owned by the fans? Bristol City was owned by its fans (shareholders) from 1982 till Mr Lansdown's shareholding surpassed that if its fans (shareholders), so last ten years or so. 

It's his investment so he gets his say.... Yes it is all his, all of it. He gets all the say. But that brings into question what the FC is. A Club? Hardly.

What football experience did Jack Walker have at Blackburn? Probably the same as SL, I'm not sure why that is important. The owner is covering his mistakes by dipping into his pocket when he screws up, is this a problem for you personally?

You keep harping on about the fans owning Ashton gate, why do you care about this. What do you think SL or JL is going to do to Ashton gate when all they have done is plough money into by majorly updating it so that it can drag in more income. What did the shareholders do in all that time to improve the facilities at Ashton gate, I don't class pissing into a hole in an 80 year old EE as state of the art.

Yes it is a club, like the vast majority of the 92 other football league clubs, you get the same rights as all of those other fans at their clubs, pretty much zero. The difference is, we have a guy in charge who has tried to do the right thing as he sees it. Do I agree with him on some of it, no, but I am not daft enought to believe he is somehow stitching me up when the evidence is absolutely clear he isn't.

[ChippenhamRed]

Just now, Loon plage said:

Rugby equals the quickest and cheapest means of reflected glory. Now the priority.

Yeah, he hasn't invested anything in the football team this year has he.

Love the old "rugby's the priority" line that gets trotted out every now and then. Bristol v Bath, massive local derby, biggest game of the season. Crowd? 16k. Makes absolute sense that this would be the priority.

[GrahamC]

37 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Please show me these clubs where the owner doesn't have a say in who the manager is.

You think Ambramovich has no say at Chelsea?

Levy at Spurs?

The Glazers at United?

The chicken farmers at Blackburn?

None of the above are football coaches. But, just like in any other business, the guy who owns it ultimately gets to make the final call on the company's biggest decisions. That is entirely reasonable, entirely normal, and nothing new at all. It's his investment so he gets his say.

Not sure why this appears to have come as a shock to people, as if it is something new.

 

And which of those get to debrief their appointed "head coach" on a weekly basis after the match?

[Cowshed]

24 minutes ago, screech said:

What football experience did Jack Walker have at Blackburn? Probably the same as SL, I'm not sure why that is important. The owner is covering his mistakes by dipping into his pocket when he screws up, is this a problem for you personally?

You keep harping on about the fans owning Ashton gate, why do you care about this. What do you think SL or JL is going to do to Ashton gate when all they have done is plough money into by majorly updating it so that it can drag in more income. What did the shareholders do in all that time to improve the facilities at Ashton gate, I don't class pissing into a hole in an 80 year old EE as state of the art.

Yes it is a club, like the vast majority of the 92 other football league clubs, you get the same rights as all of those other fans at their clubs, pretty much zero. The difference is, we have a guy in charge who has tried to do the right thing as he sees it. Do I agree with him on some of it, no, but I am not daft enought to believe he is somehow stitching me up when the evidence is absolutely clear he isn't.

Are the majority of FC's in the Country tenants in the grounds they play in?

Do the majority of the FC's in the Country no long have annual share holders meetings?

Bristol City x Bristol Sport is an oddity. It does not mirror the majority of FC's in the UK at all. Bristol Sport also does not mirror sporting groups abroad, and certainly not Barcelona, due to its zero accountability.

I have asked what are the benefits. Nobody can explain how this righteous circle of capital truly works short or long term.

Nowhere have I stated Mr, and I will always call Mr Lansdown Mister as a mark of respect Is mad or bad, but I do feel the club not being a club in its true sense  has lead to piss decision making due to its lack of accountability.

I pay all the money, I make all the decisions ... Yes Mr Lansdown it is yours but the customers can complain when your product is poor.

 

[Leveller]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

And which of those get to debrief their appointed "head coach" on a weekly basis after the match?

Any that choose to, if they're interested enough. The Venkys aren't. You see that as an advantage?

[Natchfever]

23 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Yeah, he hasn't invested anything in the football team this year has he.

Love the old "rugby's the priority" line that gets trotted out every now and then. Bristol v Bath, massive local derby, biggest game of the season. Crowd? 16k. Makes absolute sense that this would be the priority.

Trotted out because if properly handled Bristol rugby could be bigger than Toulon Saracens Clermont.Do you really think City could do likewise?

Dan Carter earns less than Lee Tomlin go figure.

Bristol absolute dog shit this season fcking laughing stock so trust me I am trotting it out because it is based upon reality. September 2018 expect Bristol to kick on with SL looking like a Cheshire cat.

[ChippenhamRed]

Just now, Loon plage said:

Trotted out because if properly handled Bristol rugby could be bigger than Toulon Saracens Clermont.Do you really think City could do likewise?

Dan Carter earns less than Lee Tomlin go figure.

Bristol absolute dog shit this season fcking laughing stock so trust me I am trotting it out because it is based upon reality. September 2018 expect Bristol to kick on with SL looking like a Cheshire cat.

I have a simple rule: don't trust any post that says "trust me".

I "figure" that Lee Tomlin earns more than Dan Carter because he is a more valuable asset in a vastly bigger industry. Football is incomparable to rugby in terms of potential revenue. City wouldn't need to be the football equivalent of Toulon to make far more money than Bristol ever could. Bottom of the PL would be more than enough for example.

In a season where there has been vastly more investment in the football team than has ever previously been seen, and even our least attractive fixtures continue to easily outsell the rugby's biggest games, it is ridiculous to label rugby "the priority".

[screech]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Are the majority of FC's in the Country tenants in the grounds they play in?

Do the majority of the FC's in the Country no long have annual share holders meetings?

Bristol City x Bristol Sport is an oddity. It does not mirror the majority of FC's in the UK at all. Bristol Sport also does not mirror sporting groups abroad, and certainly not Barcelona = Zero accountability.

I have asked what are the benefits. Nobody can explain how this righteous circle of capital truly works short or long term.

Nowhere have I stated Mr, and I will always call Mr Lansdown Mister as a mark of respect Is mad or bad, but I do feel the club not being a club in its true sense  has lead to piss decision making due to its lack of accountability.

I pay all the money, I make all the decisions ... Yes Mr Lansdown it is yours but the customers can complain when your product is poor.

You want to know the benefits of having a local billionaire majority shareholder who is a fan of the club as opposed to having hundreds of shareholders who are fans? Have I got this right??  What did this achieve in the past? The only update to the ground since I started watching 35 years ago was an enforced one which all clubs had to adhere to.

How many owners get all of their decisions right, a handful out of 92. Lack of accountability, I would say he was more accountable being a lone figure at the top. When it goes right or wrong who do you point your fingers to, who backed our last major success less than 2 years ago? Who oversaw our last failure? Everybody knows who is accountable for what goes on at the club, he came on the radio yesterday and spelled it out again. The difference is he covers his failures, with interest.

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I have a simple rule: don't trust any post that says "trust me".

I "figure" that Lee Tomlin earns more than Dan Carter because he is a more valuable asset in a vastly bigger industry. Football is incomparable to rugby in terms of potential revenue. City wouldn't need to be the football equivalent of Toulon to make far more money than Bristol ever could. Bottom of the PL would be more than enough for example.

In a season where there has been vastly more investment in the football team than has ever previously been seen, and even our least attractive fixtures continue to easily outsell the rugby's biggest games, it is ridiculous to label rugby "the priority".

Your rules dont interest me.If you don't know rugby fair enough.

Revenue doesn't interest SL. If it did he wouldn't invest in sport.Trust me.

What drives SL is a legacy which is easier to achieve via rugby.Trust me.

Saracens is the best and one of the wealthiest clubs in rugby with average attendances of about 10,000.Trust me.

[cidered abroad]

4 hours ago, NickJ said:

I don't know I have not been there, that's partly why I stand to be corrected on any aspect.

But even if its emblazoned with Forza Eastend murals and City flags, which it won't be, the fact remains that overall Ashton Gate no longer feels as though it is owned by Bristol City.

I'm quite surprised that you haven't walked the concourse from one end to the other.

I find it refreshing compared with other new stadia that I've been to. For example the soulless place that MK Dons play at.

The content and it's siting isn't quite to my liking but I feel sure that it will evolve and change over time.

The sharing with Bristol Rugby is ideal for me as I've supported them all my life the same as City. If it's a new dawning for City fans, have some sympathy with them having had their ground "stolen" by the Dunfords. While many of them hanker for a return, they are mostly very pleased to be using a modern stadium with decent toilet and refreshment facilities. And a lot also hope that one day the nonsensical seating only rules may get changed to allow the installation of rail seats.

Give it time and sharing, BS running ticketing, refreshments, hospitality and stadium/pitch maintenance won't seem to be a problem.

[Cowshed]

Just now, screech said:

You want to know the benefits of having a local billionaire majority shareholder who is a fan of the club as opposed to having hundreds of shareholders who are fans? Have I got this right??  What did this achieve in the past? The only update to the ground since I started watching 35 years ago was an enforced one which all clubs had to adhere to.

How many owners get all of their decisions right, a handful out of 92. Lack of accountability, I would say he was more accountable being a lone figure at the top. When it goes right or wrong who do you point your fingers to, who backed our last major success less than 2 years ago? Who oversaw our last failure? Everybody knows who is accountable for what goes on at the club, he came on the radio yesterday and spelled it out again. The difference is he covers his failures, with interest.

You avoided answering the questions and points. BCFC x Bristol Sport is not like other FC's. 

The FC achieved as much in the past as it does now. 

It is conceivable that Ashton Gate would have been redeveloped by others other than Mr Lansdown. It is conceivable that the FC could be have been ran in an alternative manner to BCFC x Bristol Sport with the FC not being a tenant at Ashton Gate.

Mr Lansdown is not accountable. He has not been for a significant period. His money, his assets, his chosen path and when it goes wrong others are accountable for the failure.

I do not feel it is unfair that failure is criticised v cult like worship of one man.

 

[reddogkev]

Just now, Cowshed said:

You avoided answering the questions and points. BCFC x Bristol Sport is not like other FC's. 

The FC achieved as much in the past as it does now. 

It is conceivable that Ashton Gate would have been redeveloped by others other than Mr Lansdown. It is conceivable that the FC could be have been ran in an alternative manner to BCFC x Bristol Sport with the FC not being a tenant at Ashton Gate.

Mr Lansdown is not accountable. He has not been for a significant period. His money, his assets, his chosen path and when it goes wrong others are accountable for the failure.

I do not feel it is unfair that failure is criticised v cult like worship of one man.

 

One simple question, what is your big problem with SL?  You've continued to mention the shareholder aspect, something I've never stopped to consider.  Have you had some type of wrangle with SL in the past with respect shares / financial issues and you now hold a grudge?

SL is the owner of the club, he owns the club with the ambition of seeing City develop and progress.  He has no wicked ulterior motive and is not suddenly going to sell Ashton Gate and leave City homeless.  City are a Championship team, and you never know, we might remain one for the long-term future.  Provided we stay up this season, we are in very good health going forward, and this is largely due to the incredible efforts of SL. 

It dumbfounds me that his worth to City needs to be explained.