Lansdown the real story

[screech]

13 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You avoided answering the questions and points. BCFC x Bristol Sport is not like other FC's. 

Why does it have to be like other clubs, I don't understand why this is important. He's improved a stadium and put in a pitch that has been fantastic for both Rugby and football to be played on.

The FC achieved as much in the past as it does now. 

So, what is the problem. At this moment he is trying to address this and change it.

It is conceivable that Ashton Gate would have been redeveloped by others other than Mr Lansdown. It is conceivable that the FC could be have been ran in an alternative manner to BCFC x Bristol Sport with the FC not being a tenant at Ashton Gate.

No, it is not conceivable at all, I know this because the club has been around for over a hundred years and we have had the same infrastructure for the vast majority of it until now. So no, I don't agree with you at all on this point. The ground had been badly neglected, nobody prior to SL had bothered with it.

Mr Lansdown is not accountable. He has not been for a significant period. His money, his assets, his chosen path and when it goes wrong others are accountable for the failure.

Again, this is not right. He is taking responsibility for his failings, Did you listen to his interview on the radio yesterday. He spelled it out that if he makes mistakes he covers them.

I do not feel it is unfair that failure is criticised v cult like worship of one man.

I don't worship anybody, but I know we have a decent person as owner who has invested in the club, I can agree he has made some clangers in his time, but they are honest mistakes.

 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

20 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I can see the "widows mite" argument - but the cold hard fact is that he puts in £millions and we invest (as customers of the company!) hundreds.  He also uses his experience and knowledge to benefit the club that we support. We are lucky to have such a wonderful owner, who is intent on taking the club, in a sustainable manner, to the premiership. No point in warring against the chap, just enjoy the ride and support the club. We can do more in concert that by bickering amongst ourselves and someone has to be the leader..... that person is SL.

Do you honestly feel Steve Lansdown is going to take City to the Prem?  The only manager in his reign so far to even get close was Gary Johnson, as long as SL keeps his son in charge of the playing side,  then there is no way City will get anywhere near the Prem.  All we can expect is a fight to avoid relegation every season, or even worse,  a yo yo situation from the Championship and League One, That's all we have had while SL has been owner and IMO, that is all we can expect.  We all know that he has ploughed in millions, but he seems to be quite content with appointing mediocre managers and will continue to do so, even after LJ is gone. Despite all his wealth, he is not prepared to pay the salary of a top manager who could, more likely,  get City to the promised land. i honestly feel this situation suits him, as he seems to always want a YES man and I don't think that will ever change, he may be a great City fan and benefactor, but he is also quite content to have one or two season of limited success and continue like this for as long as he is owner.  we are lucky to have him from the point of view of him being a Bristolian and for his wealth, but success in the shape of the Premiership, won't come in my lifetime, I am certain.

[cidered abroad]

I fully support SL with his ownership and with his dream of Bristol Sport as an umbrella organisation to run the administration for clubs/teams from different sports.

My only problem with him is that he has appointed a novice head coach, a hint of nepotism and the fact that in football terms, this season has been almost totally wasted.

In October we'd played 11 and had 21 pts. The same points from the next eleven games would have meant that we would be safe from relegation by end January.

The wasted opportunity to blood almost all of our U 23 squad without any pressure will set back the Academy progress which is essential for our growth as a club that wants to compete at the highest level.

That's why I'm upset, angry and want LJ gone.

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, reddogkev said:

One simple question, what is your big problem with SL?  You've continued to mention the shareholder aspect, something I've never stopped to consider.  Have you had some type of wrangle with SL in the past with respect shares / financial issues and you now hold a grudge?

SL is the owner of the club, he owns the club with the ambition of seeing City develop and progress.  He has no wicked ulterior motive and is not suddenly going to sell Ashton Gate and leave City homeless.  City are a Championship team, and you never know, we might remain one for the long-term future.  Provided we stay up this season, we are in very good health going forward, and this is largely due to the incredible efforts of SL. 

It dumbfounds me that his worth to City needs to be explained.

You failed to answer even one of the questions I posed to yourself. I will not ignore the question you have posted.

I have never suggested Mr Lansdown has any wicked motive. However I do feel the FC model Mr Lansdown has created is one that is hard to parallel in the UK and abroad. A strange oddity with a corporate passionless nature that is not necessary to succeed on the pitch =  It is hard to parallel in the UK and abroad.

Bristol City's financial performance and its performance on the pitch are of that of a severely underperforming football club. 

That autocracy is not incredible. More incredulous that Mr Johnson was employed and is still. But that is the status quo... Mr Lansdown pays more than the do fans. 

And this was not the club peopled saved in 82.

One man is NOT a club.

 

 

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Do you honestly feel Steve Lansdown is going to take City to the Prem?  The only manager in his reign so far to even get close was Gary Johnson, as long as SL keeps his son in charge of the playing side,  then there is no way City will get anywhere near the Prem.  All we can expect is a fight to avoid relegation every season, or even worse,  a yo yo situation from the Championship and League One, That's all we have had while SL has been owner and IMO, that is all we can expect.  We all know that he has ploughed in millions, but he seems to be quite content with appointing mediocre managers and will continue to do so, even after LJ is gone. Despite all his wealth, he is not prepared to pay the salary of a top manager who could, more likely,  get City to the promised land. i honestly feel this situation suits him, as he seems to always want a YES man and I don't think that will ever change, he may be a great City fan and benefactor, but he is also quite content to have one or two season of limited success and continue like this for as long as he is owner.  we are lucky to have him from the point of view of him being a Bristolian and for his wealth, but success in the shape of the Premiership, won't come in my lifetime, I am certain.

Well the stadium and training facilities are in place - we just need to build the team according to the plan. If LJ comes up short (sorry - coundn't resist!) SL will find someone else who can do the job.  At his age and with his wealth, he will not hang about - if he wants us in the Premier League, he will try very hard to get us there.  It is probably the last great ambition that he has in his life. Don't get too distracted by the staffing issues - he will soon change those if he thinks they cannot work. Hang on to your bobble hat - it is going to be an exciting few years ahead!

[downendcity]

11 hours ago, bs3 said:

Cardiff have been to an FA cup final, played in the Premier League and are in mid table not struggling to stay in this division.

I would swap places with Cardiff 

Yachi da.

[ChippenhamRed]

12 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Do you honestly feel Steve Lansdown is going to take City to the Prem?  The only manager in his reign so far to even get close was Gary Johnson, as long as SL keeps his son in charge of the playing side,  then there is no way City will get anywhere near the Prem.  All we can expect is a fight to avoid relegation every season, or even worse,  a yo yo situation from the Championship and League One, That's all we have had while SL has been owner and IMO, that is all we can expect.  We all know that he has ploughed in millions, but he seems to be quite content with appointing mediocre managers and will continue to do so, even after LJ is gone. Despite all his wealth, he is not prepared to pay the salary of a top manager who could, more likely,  get City to the promised land. i honestly feel this situation suits him, as he seems to always want a YES man and I don't think that will ever change, he may be a great City fan and benefactor, but he is also quite content to have one or two season of limited success and continue like this for as long as he is owner.  we are lucky to have him from the point of view of him being a Bristolian and for his wealth, but success in the shape of the Premiership, won't come in my lifetime, I am certain.

There is simply no way you can be certain of any of that. Given that under Lansdown we have already come within one swing of Dean Windass' boot of reaching the PL, it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to consider that we may one day get over the line. No one would have predicted the play off season and no one can confidently predict what the future will hold - especially in football. There are no guarantees that LJ will be here forever, which you seem to assume, and even if he does stay, no guarantees that this season's struggle will be repeated.

[ricardob59]

38 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Well the stadium and training facilities are in place - we just need to build the team according to the plan. If LJ comes up short (sorry - coundn't resist!) SL will find someone else who can do the job.  At his age and with his wealth, he will not hang about - if he wants us in the Premier League, he will try very hard to get us there.  It is probably the last great ambition that he has in his life. Don't get too distracted by the staffing issues - he will soon change those if he thinks they cannot work. Hang on to your bobble hat - it is going to be an exciting few years ahead!

BF - I actually (for once) think you are saying something that I do agree with...

Stadium/infrastructure etc has given us something to be proud of...

BUT...

Here's where I have concerns.. SL is trying to get to the promise land by making managerial/playing decisions that fit around 'it's my way' - comfy appt.. People he knows/trusts (Tinnion/GJ/LJ/Macca) etc.. 

It's understood (not my rumours) that some experienced managers have applied for the job, but have wanted more say in the 'day to day' management of club.. This isn't part of the project & won't sit right with SL..

Actually it wouldn't surprise me if Keith Millen was waiting in the wings... 

So my worry is that for all the good our owner had delivered, he may have to deliver a top coach to take us (and make his) premiership dream arrive.. 

[Bat Fastard]

44 minutes ago, ricardob59 said:

BF - I actually (for once) think you are saying something that I do agree with...

Stadium/infrastructure etc has given us something to be proud of...

BUT...

Here's where I have concerns.. SL is trying to get to the promise land by making managerial/playing decisions that fit around 'it's my way' - comfy appt.. People he knows/trusts (Tinnion/GJ/LJ/Macca) etc.. 

It's understood (not my rumours) that some experienced managers have applied for the job, but have wanted more say in the 'day to day' management of club.. This isn't part of the project & won't sit right with SL..

Actually it wouldn't surprise me if Keith Millen was waiting in the wings... 

So my worry is that for all the good our owner had delivered, he may have to deliver a top coach to take us (and make his) premiership dream arrive.. 

I'm sure that there are lots of managers who only want to buy 29 and 30 year old players on high wages and with high transfer fees - but that is not the project! This project will take some time - maybe another two or three years, and that is not the kind of management that most people would find attractive because it is unlikely to have an immediate result.  I would imagine that either LJ improves with experience, or ends up being replaced if he ceases to develop and that made it impossible for him to take us to the next level.  He is bright and well motivated so has a good chance - if he can build the two layer squad that is required.  SL ovbiously wants stability in terms of the commercial management and has created a system where the head coach only has to worry about his particular area.  We already have an interesting mix of players and would expect a few to leave and a few more to come in over the summer - and that the quality of the squad would improve by 10% -20% next season and further develop after that.  At least he will not have to "bed in" 19 new players because that was always going to be incredibly difficult.  The future is bright....the future is red and white! COYR! 

[Jack Dawe]

2 hours ago, screech said:

 

This Johnson thing looks to me like the least honest mistake of his though? From what we can tell, knowing so little as we do (beyond results and league position)

[RaspberryRed]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You failed to answer even one of the questions I posed to yourself. I will not ignore the question you have posted.

I have never suggested Mr Lansdown has any wicked motive. However I do feel the FC model Mr Lansdown has created is one that is hard to parallel in the UK and abroad. A strange oddity with a corporate passionless nature that is not necessary to succeed on the pitch =  It is hard to parallel in the UK and abroad.

Bristol City's financial performance and its performance on the pitch are of that of a severely underperforming football club. 

That autocracy is not incredible. More incredulous that Mr Johnson was employed and is still. But that is the status quo... Mr Lansdown pays more than the do fans. 

And this was not the club peopled saved in 82.

One man is NOT a club.

 

 

He's far too humble to ever mention that..........................Especially as by % of wealth it's factually incorrect 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

There is simply no way you can be certain of any of that. Given that under Lansdown we have already come within one swing of Dean Windass' boot of reaching the PL, it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to consider that we may one day get over the line. No one would have predicted the play off season and no one can confidently predict what the future will hold - especially in football. There are no guarantees that LJ will be here forever, which you seem to assume, and even if he does stay, no guarantees that this season's struggle will be repeated.

9 years ago that play off final and we've got nowhere near achieving anything like that since. Save for Dawe's choice of SC managerial appointments have been universally poor.

We are a long way from being capable of competing at the top end of The Championship. A drop back down to L1 either this season or next looks far more likely. That would take us to the same position as we were in 2002 when SL took control of the club.

Your post isn't exactly very optimistic, basically 'football is unpredictable' so who knows. 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

9 years ago that play off final and we've got nowhere near achieving anything like that since. Save for Dawe's choice of SC managerial appointments have been universally poor.

 

A choice that, it has to be said, you regarded as utterly shite at the time.  

Quite why you expect a stockbroker to have a better handle of footballing matters than a committed fan like yourself, I don't know. 

This is how football is. Not just at Bristol City but at the vast majority of clubs. English football realities. Yeah, better modes can be found in places like Germany, but getting from where English football is now to where the German big city clubs are is a conundrum that is bigger than Bristol City and its current owner.

[BrizzleRed]

4 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I'm sure that there are lots of managers who only want to buy 29 and 30 year old players on high wages and with high transfer fees - but that is not the project! This project will take some time - maybe another two or three years, and that is not the kind of management that most people would find attractive because it is unlikely to have an immediate result.  I would imagine that either LJ improves with experience, or ends up being replaced if he ceases to develop and that made it impossible for him to take us to the next level.  He is bright and well motivated so has a good chance - if he can build the two layer squad that is required.  SL ovbiously wants stability in terms of the commercial management and has created a system where the head coach only has to worry about his particular area.  We already have an interesting mix of players and would expect a few to leave and a few more to come in over the summer - and that the quality of the squad would improve by 10% -20% next season and further develop after that.  At least he will not have to "bed in" 19 new players because that was always going to be incredibly difficult.  The future is bright....the future is red and white! COYR! 

I admire your optimism, though I'm intigued to see what signs you've seen that make you think the future is bright on the club management front?  

There has been no sign that LJ is learning from his mistakes. His man management skills appear to be appalling and I can't remember any other City manager singling so many players out for public criticism.  If you listen to him, it would appear that the only person at the club who doesn't make mistakes is him.  His constant bleating about his struggle to find players he can trust is also pretty pathetic, as that could also infer that many of the players don't trust him either.

Returning to the subject of learning from mistakes, he certainly hasn't after apparently taking Barnsley on a club record losing run, as he's now repeated that 'feat' with us!

After recent events I've got a real concern that SL is willing to accept under-achievement on the field, as long as he can keep a complient yes man as manager/head coach.

We've all heard the bullshit trotted out by the club about our ambition to reach the Prem. In my book, actions speak louder than words and while we've got a second rate coach like LJ in charge, this will remain a distant dream and an ever increasing number of fans will begin to realise we're just being conned.

I really wonder if there is another club in the country who would have stood by a head coach with such an appalling record, over such a long period, whilst giving so little hope that he has the necessary ability and skills to be successful in his job

[Kodes]

On 4/8/2017 at 19:20, redapple said:

I generally agree with you, but he defended himself a bit to much on the question about fans spending their money at the club with his,at best, 'clumsy' answer. One would have thought he'd have the experience to have answered more respectfully. As it is he's made a rod for his own back. 

Yes it was a bit clumsy but he's probably feeling some of the pressure.  I agree with the main thread though, I detected no arrogance.

[The Joker]

21 minutes ago, Kodes said:

he's probably feeling some of the pressure

Good, i hope he is,he created this mess and its up to him to sort it out, after all he's the owner,the head honcho,the alpha male in the decision making,and boy o boy has he made some shockers,all well and good spending millions on a spanking new stadium but to then appoint a head chef that cant even boil a egg is simply unbelievable,you carry on and waste more of your own money Steve, you wont be getting anymore from me.

[Bat Fastard]

6 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

I admire your optimism, though I'm intigued to see what signs you've seen that make you think the future is bright on the club management front?  

There has been no sign that LJ is learning from his mistakes. His man management skills appear to be appalling and I can't remember any other City manager singling so many players out for public criticism.  If you listen to him, it would appear that the only person at the club who doesn't make mistakes is him.  His constant bleating about his struggle to find players he can trust is also pretty pathetic, as that could also infer that many of the players don't trust him either.

Returning to the subject of learning from mistakes, he certainly hasn't after apparently taking Barnsley on a club record losing run, as he's now repeated that 'feat' with us!

After recent events I've got a real concern that SL is willing to accept under-achievement on the field, as long as he can keep a complient yes man as manager/head coach.

We've all heard the bullshit trotted out by the club about our ambition to reach the Prem. In my book, actions speak louder than words and while we've got a second rate coach like LJ in charge, this will remain a distant dream and an ever increasing number of fans will begin to realise we're just being conned.

I really wonder if there is another club in the country who would have stood by a head coach with such an appalling record, over such a long period, whilst giving so little hope that he has the necessary ability and skills to be successful in his job

The evidence in favour of LJ is shown in performances like Wolves and Huddersfield at home.  The players were clearly very motivated and played according to the game plan devised by LJ.  Now if you look at the horrible performance at Preston and the first half at Brentford, it is hard to work out whether the players were at fault or Johnson.  I doubt if he would send them out poorly prepared - so it seems likely that there are issues with the players in some of these cases.  On the subject of man management - consider his situation: a large squad of very competitive young men all desparate to be in the team on match day. I expect they are pissing in his ear and he has to keep some kind of peace and balance in the squad. If after weeks of nagging the manager for a place, a player - who is normally very good, then comes and gives a poor performance, calling him out in an interview could be a means of conrtrolling tensions within the camp.  The thing is that we don't know what kind of relationship LJ has with his players.  He also says very encouraging things about players - it looks a bit like carrot and stick to me. The back to my opening point - he can still get a team revved up to squash Wolves in a must win match. I think the boy has something - maybe that can get better with coaching and encouragement from SL.  

As for the Premier League ambitions, they are just that - ambitions. Every year a trio of teams come down to the Championship with HUGE parachute payments and squads that are already populated by very good players.  They have a huge advantage and we must have a plan to combat that.  We seem to have a plan, and I feel sure that if the plan could not be worked they would tweek it until it did.  When SC was manager, it seemed that we were not shy in talking of big fees for top players. It must make sense to spend SLs cash on up and coming players with big sell on value than on 30 year olds, who may give us a good season and then coast towards retirement. We have had squads like that in years past! 

Just because we have a plan and a project, that doesn't mean that it will always run smoothly! Players have personal issues, loss or form or confidence, niggles, injuries, illnesses and more - and we, the paying public see none of this and often pan the manager for team selections that have to be made in the face of these difficulties. He cannot say too much because he will show his hand to the opposition and that would put us at a disadvantage. We know SL will invest, we know that we have the basis of a good squad that will only get better as they become more experienced and as more good players are added. We know that there will always be a number of disgruntled players because we have to keep a big squad now that the emergency loan system has gone. Adjustments will be made as we go along, but one thing is certain - the future certainly is bright....especially if we can avoid the drop this season! COYR!

[The Joker]

FTAO...BAT

Even a blind squirrel picks up a nut every now and again.have a good day

[Bat Fastard]

35 minutes ago, The Joker said:

FTAO...BAT

Even a blind squirrel picks up a nut every now and again.have a good day

There are none so blind as those that will not see! 

[The Joker]

25 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

There are none so blind as those that will not see! 

Quite right Bat...when is your eye test due?

[BrizzleRed]

10 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

The evidence in favour of LJ is shown in performances like Wolves and Huddersfield at home.  The players were clearly very motivated and played according to the game plan devised by LJ.  Now if you look at the horrible performance at Preston and the first half at Brentford, it is hard to work out whether the players were at fault or Johnson.  (1) I doubt if he would send them out poorly prepared - so it seems likely that there are issues with the players in some of these cases.  On the subject of man management - consider his situation: (2) a large squad of very competitive young men all desparate to be in the team on match day. I expect they are pissing in his ear and he has to keep some kind of peace and balance in the squad. If after weeks of nagging the manager for a place, a player - who is normally very good, then comes and gives a poor performance, calling him out in an interview could be a means of conrtrolling tensions within the camp.  The thing is that we don't know what kind of relationship LJ has with his players.  He also says very encouraging things about players - it looks a bit like carrot and stick to me. The back to my opening point - he can still get a team revved up to squash Wolves in a must win match. (3) I think the boy has something - maybe that can get better with coaching and encouragement from SL.  

(4) As for the Premier League ambitions, they are just that - ambitions. Every year a trio of teams come down to the Championship with HUGE parachute payments and squads that are already populated by very good players.  They have a huge advantage and we must have a plan to combat that.  We seem to have a plan, and I feel sure that if the plan could not be worked they would tweek it until it did.  When SC was manager, it seemed that we were not shy in talking of big fees for top players. It must make sense to spend SLs cash on up and coming players with big sell on value than on 30 year olds, who may give us a good season and then coast towards retirement. We have had squads like that in years past! 

Just because we have a plan and a project, that doesn't mean that it will always run smoothly! Players have personal issues, loss or form or confidence, niggles, injuries, illnesses and more - and we, the paying public see none of this and often pan the manager for team selections that have to be made in the face of these difficulties. He cannot say too much because he will show his hand to the opposition and that would put us at a disadvantage. We know SL will invest, (5) we know that we have the basis of a good squad that will only get better as they become more experienced and as more good players are added. We know that there will always be a number of disgruntled players because we have to keep a big squad now that the emergency loan system has gone. Adjustments will be made as we go along, but one thing is certain - the future certainly is bright....especially if we can avoid the drop this season! COYR!

Appreciate the reasoned reply BF, so I'll return the compliment and counter the numbered points in turn.

(1) It would seem he IS sending teams out poorly prepared, judging by the amount of particularly poor 1st half performances we've had to endure this season.  To his credit, he's sometimes managed to improve things in the 2nd half, though often through change of tactics and the e expense of a very early use of subs.  Our better performances always seem to come when we press teams,  so why do we generally stand off and allow the opposition the freedom of the pitch?  Surely this is down to to either the Head Coach's tactics, or the players aren't doing as instructed.  I don't see the evidence of him screaming from the touchline for the players to do as they've been instructed, so surely the conclusion must be they are either following orders, or he has zero authority over the players, so is at fault either way.

(2) So how come with this large squad of competitive young men, do we see the ridiculous situation when we see some players clearly floundering and bereft of confidence, while we have sometimes international replacements in the squad who are constantly overlooked?  On the other hand, we've seen a number of instances this season when a player has put in an excellent performance one week, and been dropped the next.  We also find ourselves in the situation that many of his signings; supposedly with the 'right DNA', are the ones being overlooked and not 'trusted' by the Head Coach who signed them.  Obviously we don't see what goes on in training, but I really can't see that the amount of chopping and changing of his sides is either necessary, or helpful in creating any understanding amongst the players.

(3) Maybe, but am really struggling to see any sign of this.  Even so, is the Championship the ideal place to be learning your trade, particularly as he appears to be such a slow learner?  I would also say I'm seriously worried at how far SL is prepared to let us slide before he decides to pull the trigger. What has LJ achieved that has earned him the right to this level of support.  Given the fact that he was always a 'marmite' player for us, things were always going to get problematical amongst the fanbase if things went wrong for him.  With him now getting unprecedented support and tolerance from SL is the sole reason for me as to why there is so much division amongst the fans and it's no surprise either.  Why choose one of the most divisive played in recent history to throw your support behind, particularly as he's shown so little managerial talent to warrant it?

(4) SL talks big about the Premier League, but I'm beginning to question if this is actually what he's aiming for.  Let's look at the evidence for a moment.  We've had big bids in for Gayle, Grey and Maguire, which would insinuate we had a degree of ambition, but then look more closely.  By all accounts, Gayle was a non-starter and if rumours are to be believed, we had bids and personal terms agreed with both Grey and Maguire, only to be scuppered by BCFC management trying to then re-negotiate.  It wouldn't take a massive amount of imagination to think the club were hinting at ambition just to hook in the ST's for another year!  Now I fully accept we can't compete with clubs with parachute payments, but why do we never push the boat out and show some ambition on the manager recruitment front, which IMHO would be showing some REAL ambition.  We are constantly going for the relatively cheap option and the only one who did give some decent success was SC, who appears to be the only one who wasn't a yes man, so that says something to me!

The only real positive I see is the stadium, but I've got a nagging suspicion that the only drive for this was for its income generation potential, not the increased capacity in preparation for the Premier League.  This increases revenue for Bristol Sport, but viewed alongside questionable ambition in other areas, I don't believe this indicates a particularly strong desire by the club to reach greater heights.  I personally think the club are content to set their sights on getting established in the Championship, whilst making noises that they are striving for greater things, but with no real intention of actually 'going for it'.  

(5) My concern is we signed a large number of players in the past year with good reputations, but how many have even fulfilled potential, let alone improved?  I think there is something seriously wrong with the coaching at this club, so the hope that players will improve could be a forlorn one I fear.  It appears we aren't good at improving players, which will probably only happen when they leave us, as in the cases of Ayling and Freeman.  All we seem to do is suffer the same glaring mistakes, particularly in defence.  Occasionally things will click for a game, then revert to type.

So in summary, I'm afraid that after 50+ years of following this club, I can't share your opinion of the future being bright, but I really hope I'm proved wrong, but won't be holding my breath!!!   

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Quite right Bat...when is your eye test due?

I really can't see what you are driving at! 

[The Joker]

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I really can't see what you are driving at! 

Struth!!!! i am not surprised

[NickJ]

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

The evidence in favour of LJ is shown in performances like Wolves and Huddersfield at home.  The players were clearly very motivated and played according to the game plan devised by LJ.  Now if you look at the horrible performance at Preston and the first half at Brentford, it is hard to work out whether the players were at fault or Johnson.  I doubt if he would send them out poorly prepared - so it seems likely that there are issues with the players in some of these cases.   

 

So LJ gets the credit for good performances but the players get the criticism for the bad ones.

Can you give examples of his leadership qualities and man management skills?

[Show Me The Money!]

23 hours ago, NickJ said:

My observation on our great stadium.

It does not scream out Bristol City.

The concourse of the Lansdown Stand, the main entry point and what should be the focal point of OUR club and OUR stadium. I have been in there only once, but what was eye catching was the walls covered in the history of Bristol Rugby. I made this point before, and somebody said that there are pictures of Bristol City legends on the ceiling. Maybe there are, not looking up I didn't even notice, but I don't think anybody could deny that Bristol Rugby predominates that key area.

The concourse of the Dolman is covered in pictures of local sporting greats, not Bristol City greats.

There is not one single area of the ground that says, this is the home of Bristol City, in fact going back to that main concourse, I would say it gives the impression of being the home of Bristol Rugby with the football club as its tenant.

And before anybody mentions the Atyeo statue, I believe this was funded by the Supporters Trust, Lansdown and Bristol Sport were not interested.

Stand to be corrected if any of the above is not accurate.

What about all those red seats?

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Appreciate the reasoned reply BF, so I'll return the compliment and counter the numbered points in turn.

(1) It would seem he IS sending teams out poorly prepared, judging by the amount of particularly poor 1st half performances we've had to endure this season.  To his credit, he's sometimes managed to improve things in the 2nd half, though often through change of tactics and the e expense of a very early use of subs.  Our better performances always seem to come when we press teams,  so why do we generally stand off and allow the opposition the freedom of the pitch?  Surely this is down to to either the Head Coach's tactics, or the players aren't doing as instructed.  I don't see the evidence of him screaming from the touchline for the players to do as they've been instructed, so surely the conclusion must be they are either following orders, or he has zero authority over the players, so is at fault either way.

(2) So how come with this large squad of competitive young men, do we see the ridiculous situation when we see some players clearly floundering and bereft of confidence, while we have sometimes international replacements in the squad who are constantly overlooked?  On the other hand, we've seen a number of instances this season when a player has put in an excellent performance one week, and been dropped the next.  We also find ourselves in the situation that many of his signings; supposedly with the 'right DNA', are the ones being overlooked and not 'trusted' by the Head Coach who signed them.  Obviously we don't see what goes on in training, but I really can't see that the amount of chopping and changing of his sides is either necessary, or helpful in creating any understanding amongst the players.

(3) Maybe, but am really struggling to see any sign of this.  Even so, is the Championship the ideal place to be learning your trade, particularly as he appears to be such a slow learner?  I would also say I'm seriously worried at how far SL is prepared to let us slide before he decides to pull the trigger. What has LJ achieved that has earned him the right to this level of support.  Given the fact that he was always a 'marmite' player for us, things were always going to get problematical amongst the fanbase if things went wrong for him.  With him now getting unprecedented support and tolerance from SL is the sole reason for me as to why there is so much division amongst the fans and it's no surprise either.  Why choose one of the most divisive played in recent history to throw your support behind, particularly as he's shown so little managerial talent to warrant it?

(4) SL talks big about the Premier League, but I'm beginning to question if this is actually what he's aiming for.  Let's look at the evidence for a moment.  We've had big bids in for Gayle, Grey and Maguire, which would insinuate we had a degree of ambition, but then look more closely.  By all accounts, Gayle was a non-starter and if rumours are to be believed, we had bids and personal terms agreed with both Grey and Maguire, only to be scuppered by BCFC management trying to then re-negotiate.  It wouldn't take a massive amount of imagination to think the club were hinting at ambition just to hook in the ST's for another year!  Now I fully accept we can't compete with clubs with parachute payments, but why do we never push the boat out and show some ambition on the manager recruitment front, which IMHO would be showing some REAL ambition.  We are constantly going for the relatively cheap option and the only one who did give some decent success was SC, who appears to be the only one who wasn't a yes man, so that says something to me!

The only real positive I see is the stadium, but I've got a nagging suspicion that the only drive for this was for its income generation potential, not the increased capacity in preparation for the Premier League.  This increases revenue for Bristol Sport, but viewed alongside questionable ambition in other areas, I don't believe this indicates a particularly strong desire by the club to reach greater heights.  I personally think the club are content to set their sights on getting established in the Championship, whilst making noises that they are striving for greater things, but with no real intention of actually 'going for it'.  

(5) My concern is we signed a large number of players in the past year with good reputations, but how many have even fulfilled potential, let alone improved?  I think there is something seriously wrong with the coaching at this club, so the hope that players will improve could be a forlorn one I fear.  It appears we aren't good at improving players, which will probably only happen when they leave us, as in the cases of Ayling and Freeman.  All we seem to do is suffer the same glaring mistakes, particularly in defence.  Occasionally things will click for a game, then revert to type.

So in summary, I'm afraid that after 50+ years of following this club, I can't share your opinion of the future being bright, but I really hope I'm proved wrong, but won't be holding my breath!!!   

I was also interested to hear that Des Taylor left because he didn't have the same ideas as the club. Why employ a top scout if you don't share the same aspirations…?

[Bat Fastard]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Appreciate the reasoned reply BF, so I'll return the compliment and counter the numbered points in turn.

(1) It would seem he IS sending teams out poorly prepared, judging by the amount of particularly poor 1st half performances we've had to endure this season.  To his credit, he's sometimes managed to improve things in the 2nd half, though often through change of tactics and the e expense of a very early use of subs.  Our better performances always seem to come when we press teams,  so why do we generally stand off and allow the opposition the freedom of the pitch?  Surely this is down to to either the Head Coach's tactics, or the players aren't doing as instructed.  I don't see the evidence of him screaming from the touchline for the players to do as they've been instructed, so surely the conclusion must be they are either following orders, or he has zero authority over the players, so is at fault either way.

(2) So how come with this large squad of competitive young men, do we see the ridiculous situation when we see some players clearly floundering and bereft of confidence, while we have sometimes international replacements in the squad who are constantly overlooked?  On the other hand, we've seen a number of instances this season when a player has put in an excellent performance one week, and been dropped the next.  We also find ourselves in the situation that many of his signings; supposedly with the 'right DNA', are the ones being overlooked and not 'trusted' by the Head Coach who signed them.  Obviously we don't see what goes on in training, but I really can't see that the amount of chopping and changing of his sides is either necessary, or helpful in creating any understanding amongst the players.

(3) Maybe, but am really struggling to see any sign of this.  Even so, is the Championship the ideal place to be learning your trade, particularly as he appears to be such a slow learner?  I would also say I'm seriously worried at how far SL is prepared to let us slide before he decides to pull the trigger. What has LJ achieved that has earned him the right to this level of support.  Given the fact that he was always a 'marmite' player for us, things were always going to get problematical amongst the fanbase if things went wrong for him.  With him now getting unprecedented support and tolerance from SL is the sole reason for me as to why there is so much division amongst the fans and it's no surprise either.  Why choose one of the most divisive played in recent history to throw your support behind, particularly as he's shown so little managerial talent to warrant it?

(4) SL talks big about the Premier League, but I'm beginning to question if this is actually what he's aiming for.  Let's look at the evidence for a moment.  We've had big bids in for Gayle, Grey and Maguire, which would insinuate we had a degree of ambition, but then look more closely.  By all accounts, Gayle was a non-starter and if rumours are to be believed, we had bids and personal terms agreed with both Grey and Maguire, only to be scuppered by BCFC management trying to then re-negotiate.  It wouldn't take a massive amount of imagination to think the club were hinting at ambition just to hook in the ST's for another year!  Now I fully accept we can't compete with clubs with parachute payments, but why do we never push the boat out and show some ambition on the manager recruitment front, which IMHO would be showing some REAL ambition.  We are constantly going for the relatively cheap option and the only one who did give some decent success was SC, who appears to be the only one who wasn't a yes man, so that says something to me!

The only real positive I see is the stadium, but I've got a nagging suspicion that the only drive for this was for its income generation potential, not the increased capacity in preparation for the Premier League.  This increases revenue for Bristol Sport, but viewed alongside questionable ambition in other areas, I don't believe this indicates a particularly strong desire by the club to reach greater heights.  I personally think the club are content to set their sights on getting established in the Championship, whilst making noises that they are striving for greater things, but with no real intention of actually 'going for it'.  

(5) My concern is we signed a large number of players in the past year with good reputations, but how many have even fulfilled potential, let alone improved?  I think there is something seriously wrong with the coaching at this club, so the hope that players will improve could be a forlorn one I fear.  It appears we aren't good at improving players, which will probably only happen when they leave us, as in the cases of Ayling and Freeman.  All we seem to do is suffer the same glaring mistakes, particularly in defence.  Occasionally things will click for a game, then revert to type.

So in summary, I'm afraid that after 50+ years of following this club, I can't share your opinion of the future being bright, but I really hope I'm proved wrong, but won't be holding my breath!!!   

Hi BR -sorry I had to go out!

1. I think that the jury is still out on this to an extent - but I agree with you about pressing.  Whenever we play a pressing game we seem to do well - maybe another reason for leaving Tomlin out of the starting 11. It may well be that there are scouts who watch opposition teams and that we get video of their recent matches that should give us a clue.  LJ often talks about the opposition strengths and weaknesses - so he must know something.  I get the impression that we are maybe not as fit as some other clubs and that it is hard for some to play Saturday/Tuesday/Saturday/Tuesday - Cotterill and Joe Bryan often look knackered - but they play a very long game with lots of ground covered.

2. It is difficult to fathom how some of the players think - maybe it is a bit like going away to university and being away from home for the first time. I remember people in tears and struggling to cope - maybe people like Gus Engvall has similar problems.  We will never know about the private personalities, injuries, knocks, broken hearts or anything else like that in the group - but it is bound to impact upon behaviour. I would expect that the "DNA" is the hardest thing to get right and that older players are steadier and therefore more reliable, making our project more difficult.

3. I don't think support and how LJ was as a player are really fair points.  The owner and others at high level within the club clearly rate him highly - and there must be a reason for that. The fact that he was a marmite player was due largely to his size and lack of pace - he was certainly an intelligent player.  If, as some on here believe, he is lacking in certain areas of hi management skills - that may be due to his age and maybe that is why he is also suitable for the project because he will be closer in age to the younger players that we are recruiting.  A hard bitten 55 year old may not be able to empathise in quite the same way.

4. I think that we are ambitious and I have the suspicion that SL is making his investments into the club largely from income.  If he has an investment income of roughly £50million pa - assuming normal divicend levels, that would leave him with around £40million after Guernsey taxes at 20% - if you take off his living expenses, aeroplane and other interests, I would expect that he could regularly invest between £20- £25million.  Now some of that would go to other sporting interests - leaving around £15-£20million for his City interests.  Now that the stadium is finished, that would put us at or near the higher end of the non-parachute clubs.  A reasonable number of younger players coming through will ease the situation - as would smaller losses!! We still need every penny that can be raised.  He may just release cash from selling investments as he did for the stadium. We shall see!

5.There will always be mistakes and players thinking that they cam better themselves - financially and by playing in a bigger club or one nearer their parents. I would expect that we would get the odd bargain - like Taylor for example. We will have to wait to see how existing and new players feel about a long term future at City - but SL clearly envisages buying young and cheap, developing and then selling for a much higher price. Hopefully he is building the management infrastructure that will make all this work. It is not only experience but enthusiasm is vital.  I remain optimistic COYR!

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed but I keep getting called to do duties!

[redapple]

36 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I was also interested to hear that Des Taylor left because he didn't have the same ideas as the club. Why employ a top scout if you don't share the same aspirations…?

I'm sure SL was as honest as he could be but this is a whopper of Jumbo sized proportions.

[...]

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Hi BR -sorry I had to go out!

1. I think that the jury is still out on this to an extent - but I agree with you about pressing.  Whenever we play a pressing game we seem to do well - maybe another reason for leaving Tomlin out of the starting 11. It may well be that there are scouts who watch opposition teams and that we get video of their recent matches that should give us a clue.  LJ often talks about the opposition strengths and weaknesses - so he must know something.  I get the impression that we are maybe not as fit as some other clubs and that it is hard for some to play Saturday/Tuesday/Saturday/Tuesday - Cotterill and Joe Bryan often look knackered - but they play a very long game with lots of ground covered.

2. It is difficult to fathom how some of the players think - maybe it is a bit like going away to university and being away from home for the first time. I remember people in tears and struggling to cope - maybe people like Gus Engvall has similar problems.  We will never know about the private personalities, injuries, knocks, broken hearts or anything else like that in the group - but it is bound to impact upon behaviour. I would expect that the "DNA" is the hardest thing to get right and that older players are steadier and therefore more reliable, making our project more difficult.

3. I don't think support and how LJ was as a player are really fair points.  The owner and others at high level within the club clearly rate him highly - and there must be a reason for that. The fact that he was a marmite player was due largely to his size and lack of pace - he was certainly an intelligent player.  If, as some on here believe, he is lacking in certain areas of hi management skills - that may be due to his age and maybe that is why he is also suitable for the project because he will be closer in age to the younger players that we are recruiting.  A hard bitten 55 year old may not be able to empathise in quite the same way.

4. I think that we are ambitious and I have the suspicion that SL is making his investments into the club largely from income.  If he has an investment income of roughly £50million pa - assuming normal divicend levels, that would leave him with around £40million after Guernsey taxes at 20% - if you take off his living expenses, aeroplane and other interests, I would expect that he could regularly invest between £20- £25million.  Now some of that would go to other sporting interests - leaving around £15-£20million for his City interests.  Now that the stadium is finished, that would put us at or near the higher end of the non-parachute clubs.  A reasonable number of younger players coming through will ease the situation - as would smaller losses!! We still need every penny that can be raised.  He may just release cash from selling investments as he did for the stadium. We shall see!

5.There will always be mistakes and players thinking that they cam better themselves - financially and by playing in a bigger club or one nearer their parents. I would expect that we would get the odd bargain - like Taylor for example. We will have to wait to see how existing and new players feel about a long term future at City - but SL clearly envisages buying young and cheap, developing and then selling for a much higher price. Hopefully he is building the management infrastructure that will make all this work. It is not only experience but enthusiasm is vital.  I remain optimistic COYR!

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed but I keep getting called to do duties!

Was there not a rule a while ago about very long posts?

Can anyone be bothered reading this diatribe?

No offence, but can't we keep it a bit more concise?

 

tfj

[Ivorguy]

20 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I haven't listened to the interview and I have read a few comments on OTIB that seem to contradict each other as to what was said. Like many of these things, people read into these things what they will. What I do think is that when i see some of the comments on here, and if I was SL reading them, then my response would be **** the ungrateful bastards! 

So if that's what you read into the interview, maybe thats what he was thinking.

If indeed he was thinking that he doesn't understand English football and is no gentleman.  Both of which I suspect are true!