Post Match - Lee Johnson , Keith Andrews comments and 'Work In Progress'

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

The thing is we always look half decent at home and always give teams a game. 

My BIG concern ( I keep coming back to it ) is away from home. Away from home we are awful, and the four points dropped at home in our last two home games could come back to haunt us later in the season.

I didn't learn anything from last nights game, simply because we were at home, we are a soft touch away from home and as the season goes along that will be where I will judge us.

 

Very much been aligned with your thoughts over last 12-18 months PB 

Hope it's not another false dawn but I did think we were pretty solid last night and watching our work and commitment to regain n shape when we lost the ball good

 

Our pressing , hunting in packs and ability and o win the ball back was generally good (shard to maintain for 90 mins) and I wonder whether we might catch a few teams away from hiome

For various reasons from Pisano ,  Baker Thro to FD we look more solid without the balk and (I hope it's not temporary) but a bit more resilient to pressure

FF at top of his game helps too !

Our ability to be ruthless when we nick the ball away from home (As we will) will be decisive in our ultimate results - a striker with real pace would be / have  been a great acquisition 

 

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, atyeoboy17 said:

10 million on 2 proven championship strikers was a must, in my opinion, but Hayho, still a working progress

That barely buys you one anymore

[spudski]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, don't disagree...I think he was worried Villa were just getting on top and subbing at that point would be an easy criticism if they went on to win.  The chaps sat next to me we're saying this is a game to take the point, even if we deserved 3 (just shaded it), but certainly not come away with nothing (Brentford, PNE last season?).  The Football Manager player in us wouldve gone "gung-ho" to win a home game!

Seems to like this double sub lark.  I'd go one at a time and see how it plays out. But that's me!

Two blokes behind me got up and left during the game saying it was boring. This is the type of attitude the club and LJ are up against with some fans.. No win situation with all. 

[exAtyeoMax]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Two blokes behind me got up and left during the game saying it was boring. This is the type of attitude the club and LJ are up against with some fans.. No win situation with all. 

were you at AG? 

Perhaps they were Villa…

[italian dave]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Two blokes behind me got up and left during the game saying it was boring. This is the type of attitude the club and LJ are up against with some fans.. No win situation with all. 

They must have either

- be rugby fans come thinking it was rugby on a Friday night, or

- just woken up after falling asleep during the Millwall game

Can't believe any football fan found last nights game boring.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

Two blokes behind me got up and left during the game saying it was boring. This is the type of attitude the club and LJ are up against with some fans.. No win situation with all. 

Bottom line is Spud, in a 21000 crowd there will always be a percentage who are stupid, ignorant, pissed (or a combination of the three).

It was always thus, back to Alan Dicks' time.

[italian dave]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Bottom line is Spud, in a 21000 crowd there will always be a percentage who are stupid, ignorant, pissed (or a combination of the three).

It was always thus, back to Alan Dicks' time.

What happened before Alan Dicks time? Were football fans all intelligent, thoughtful and sober then?!

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

What happened before Alan Dicks time? Were football fans all intelligent, thoughtful and sober then?!

god no, even the referees were blotto in the early days!

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Bottom line is Spud, in a 21000 crowd there will always be a percentage who are stupid, ignorant, pissed (or a combination of the three).

It was always thus, back to Alan Dicks' time.

Spot On Graham

Never been any different

Stood or sat in A Foitball crowd whether following City , England or at a game as a neutral or other capacity - I've heard some of the biggest nonsense and crap I've ever heard in life

Similarly it never amazes me how astute some supporters are and ignore and sort out the crap and there's some very interesting stuff that fans observe , raise & discuss 

Refoected daily on here IMHO ) And of course it's exactly that - Opinions !)

Some very astute posts and points on here amongst all of our debates , also (IMHO) some complete nonsense !!

(Had a real row with Fawthrop over this once , who was typical of many in the pro game with his 'fans know nothing attitude'. !! )

[The Fat Controller]

Great thread. Some really well balanced and reasoned posts here. 

Thanks BBSB.

[Robbored]

57 minutes ago, italian dave said:

What happened before Alan Dicks time? Were football fans all intelligent, thoughtful and sober then?!

It's difficult to be remember tbf. 

I was two thirds pissed at pretty much every match.......I do vaguely remember ridiculous debates. Which at the time seemed thoughtful and well reasoned........."

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

What happened before Alan Dicks time? Were football fans all intelligent, thoughtful and sober then?!

Since I was around in those days the answer is no, obvs. Times change though, these days I'm sober. 

[eric04]

Our game is based on possession and keeping the ball away from the opposition, but I don't think we hurt teams much with it. We haven't got a real schemer in midfield.

I was also relieved Hogan didn't start the game. If he's not going to get games at Villa, I think he'd be great with Diedhiou. 

[Rudolf Hucker]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

What happened before Alan Dicks time? Were football fans all intelligent, thoughtful and sober then?!

We were. 

[Rudolf Hucker]

5 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

We were. 

Except @Robbored and @chinapig who were both awful. Hard to believe, I know.

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Except @Robbored and @chinapig who were both awful. Hard to believe, I know.

I was a young guy back then and I was no different then to most young guys are these day.

At least I managed to pass my exams........

[RedM]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Nice observations in the OP.

When it comes to 'being coached'...I think we are finally seeing how LJ wants to play. Fast, decisive, give and go, high pressing, good movement, expansive...using the whole pitch and willing to switch play.

For me...the biggest influence in this high tempo way of playing, has been the influence of Bobby Reid. He doesn't stop running, or moving, both offensively and defensively.

If you do that from the front line, it has an effect on the rest of the team.

Consider how different it is, to the lumbering movement of Tomlin last season.

It's been a breath of fresh air, to see these lads play. Yesterday was a cracking Championship game. It had everything you could hope for.

 

Fantastic post, exactly what I wanted to say but you've done it for me, thanks!

[Red-Robbo]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

Good point Dave. I came away a little frustrated last night, purely because I thought we played so so well and deserved the victory but felt that we dropped off quite noticeably in the last 10 when I thought we should've gone for the jugular. But you're right it's not necessarily possible for us to go the whole 90 minutes full tilt. I thought we played very very well last night overall, as BBSB pointed out it was a really cohesive and drilled performance with everyone really putting it in. Well done LJ and the boys. Here's hoping it can continue after the break. 

If I'm to criticise one of LJ's decisions from last night, it was taking off Pack and dropping Brownhill over into a central defensive role. Pack's something of a mf lynchpin and although I like Brownhill going forward, he hasn't much defensive capacity at all, especially in the final period of a game when he's knackered. With Woodrow clearly not up to speed yet, it was like we finished the match with 9 men.

[SStandUp]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Watching back Sky's coverage last night , personally I thought LJs post match interview was possibly the best I've heard from him

Nothing mind blowing , was just very calm , spoke very sensibly , thought his view / assessment was very sensible / fair and came across so, didn't make a big issue of the pen shouts when given the opportunity and when suggested we were very unlucky with the deflecte goal half agreed but pointed out that the midfield could have done better (to close down earlier / closer) better which is right , but said so with a smile -

As someone who has / is , been a real doubter of LJ and with his media stuff , especially post match interviews I thought he came across really well - was good to see 

Very Good interview Lee 

 

Onto Keith Andrews ,who with Lee Hendrix was doing punditry. I find a lot of what Andrews normally says is waffle and bland but I thought he got us nailed on

Overall was very fair and praised us generally - Suggested we'd be tough to beat  at the Gate and praised the way we try and play etc but he said words to effect / close to 'When they're at it and energetic and busy they are a handful , but/and they need to keep that intensity'

and mentioned a couple of times incl when asked if we could threaten top six said (nicely) that although decent , maybe we lack that little  extra bit of quality that the spending power of the big Clubs in this league have., particularly in the final third

I thought his assessment was very fair and hit the nail on the head, coming away last night , it was exactly my thoughts

One other comment of his (Think it was him not Hendrix) also takes me on nicely

He (Maybe Hendrie) post match , comparing the two sides pointed out that Villa have quality throughout their squad but looked disjointed as Bruce rebuilds whilst we look clearly coached and far more cohesive

When I read last nights match thread and some other posts and thread this morning , have to say I was shocked , maybe it's me that's having a funny turn......

First and foremost Villa have , on paper a quality Squad for this level with proven quality and options in most positions and let's be honest most neutral Championship Fans if offered the contents of the two line ups last night to form a side would pick virtually all Villa players.

so , even though they are very much in a rebuild and disjointed phase, last night was always going to be a tough fixture with the danger of sides like Villa that they have enough quality  about,  that even when playing poorly can undo you 

So personally , offered a point with a decent performance I would have taken that pre match and definitely when they equalised , so personally I came away thinking , reasonable / decent point , albeit during our first half domination and after scoring firstbInthought we might well nick all three.

I though we played decent / well , we were busy , kept our workrate for 90mins , competed right around the pitch and played some neat and tidy stuff at times - As a LJ sceptic I have to say we looked coached / drilled last night and much more cohesive than Villa - We at least looked as if we had a style and noticeable method of play where Villa didn't 

Whether you have faith in LJs philosophy of playing you could definitely see some fruition of work on the training ground and 1-11 looked as if they knew their role which didn't look the case many times last season

Well done LJ / Dh / JMc

I thought there were lots of good signs and individual bits and pieces to be positive about and and was particularly shocked by the match day thread , which reads as if we were dire in large parts - As a often sceptic / blunt assessor I thought the thread , and some of the posts were ridiculously negative and blind and in the vast majority of cases - very unfair

I still have some concerns about a lack of Plan B when things aren't rolling well and our potential consistently issues , and our ability to keep up the intensity we need to play this way / at our best over 90mins week in week out but they can be for another thread or day

My over riding feeling was we looked a mostly solid and cohesive unit with evidence of training ground definitely showing

Back to Keith Andrews comments , .....

We look solid  / busy / dec not and most of us would agree (?) that we do lack that bit of special quality at times , in the final third , to cash in on periods of domination / possession which probably does reflect or status and spending power at this level so I can't get too miffed by this

Last night we got 'between' their lines and in / running at their back three on a regular basis , especially in the first half and missed opportunities to capitalise . That extra bit of quality costs big bucks besides being able to attract such players to your club and I think most of us accept that to be so

Came away last night really please with the performance personally and thinking we could be on the right lines - if we can add some real quality in a couple of areas we will be looking a decent Championship side if we perform like that on a consistent basis

Consistency over a period / seriesof games is what I'd love to see now (Performance more so than results) and proof we are progressing - I still fear we will have a Brentford in the next 2 or 3 games !

Well done LJ & Players

COYR

Maybe (For once !) I'm the one being over optimistic ?

 

Completely agree

[Inactive user]

8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Watching back Sky's coverage last night , personally I thought LJs post match interview was possibly the best I've heard from him

Nothing mind blowing , was just very calm , spoke very sensibly , thought his view / assessment was very sensible / fair and came across so, didn't make a big issue of the pen shouts when given the opportunity and when suggested we were very unlucky with the deflecte goal half agreed but pointed out that the midfield could have done better (to close down earlier / closer) better which is right , but said so with a smile -

As someone who has / is , been a real doubter of LJ and with his media stuff , especially post match interviews I thought he came across really well - was good to see 

Very Good interview Lee 

 

Onto Keith Andrews ,who with Lee Hendrix was doing punditry. I find a lot of what Andrews normally says is waffle and bland but I thought he got us nailed on

Overall was very fair and praised us generally - Suggested we'd be tough to beat  at the Gate and praised the way we try and play etc but he said words to effect / close to 'When they're at it and energetic and busy they are a handful , but/and they need to keep that intensity'

and mentioned a couple of times incl when asked if we could threaten top six said (nicely) that although decent , maybe we lack that little  extra bit of quality that the spending power of the big Clubs in this league have., particularly in the final third

I thought his assessment was very fair and hit the nail on the head, coming away last night , it was exactly my thoughts

One other comment of his (Think it was him not Hendrix) also takes me on nicely

He (Maybe Hendrie) post match , comparing the two sides pointed out that Villa have quality throughout their squad but looked disjointed as Bruce rebuilds whilst we look clearly coached and far more cohesive

When I read last nights match thread and some other posts and thread this morning , have to say I was shocked , maybe it's me that's having a funny turn......

First and foremost Villa have , on paper a quality Squad for this level with proven quality and options in most positions and let's be honest most neutral Championship Fans if offered the contents of the two line ups last night to form a side would pick virtually all Villa players.

so , even though they are very much in a rebuild and disjointed phase, last night was always going to be a tough fixture with the danger of sides like Villa that they have enough quality  about,  that even when playing poorly can undo you 

So personally , offered a point with a decent performance I would have taken that pre match and definitely when they equalised , so personally I came away thinking , reasonable / decent point , albeit during our first half domination and after scoring firstbInthought we might well nick all three.

I though we played decent / well , we were busy , kept our workrate for 90mins , competed right around the pitch and played some neat and tidy stuff at times - As a LJ sceptic I have to say we looked coached / drilled last night and much more cohesive than Villa - We at least looked as if we had a style and noticeable method of play where Villa didn't 

Whether you have faith in LJs philosophy of playing you could definitely see some fruition of work on the training ground and 1-11 looked as if they knew their role which didn't look the case many times last season

Well done LJ / Dh / JMc

I thought there were lots of good signs and individual bits and pieces to be positive about and and was particularly shocked by the match day thread , which reads as if we were dire in large parts - As a often sceptic / blunt assessor I thought the thread , and some of the posts were ridiculously negative and blind and in the vast majority of cases - very unfair

I still have some concerns about a lack of Plan B when things aren't rolling well and our potential consistently issues , and our ability to keep up the intensity we need to play this way / at our best over 90mins week in week out but they can be for another thread or day

My over riding feeling was we looked a mostly solid and cohesive unit with evidence of training ground definitely showing

Back to Keith Andrews comments , .....

We look solid  / busy / dec not and most of us would agree (?) that we do lack that bit of special quality at times , in the final third , to cash in on periods of domination / possession which probably does reflect or status and spending power at this level so I can't get too miffed by this

Last night we got 'between' their lines and in / running at their back three on a regular basis , especially in the first half and missed opportunities to capitalise . That extra bit of quality costs big bucks besides being able to attract such players to your club and I think most of us accept that to be so

Came away last night really please with the performance personally and thinking we could be on the right lines - if we can add some real quality in a couple of areas we will be looking a decent Championship side if we perform like that on a consistent basis

Consistency over a period / seriesof games is what I'd love to see now (Performance more so than results) and proof we are progressing - I still fear we will have a Brentford in the next 2 or 3 games !

Well done LJ & Players

COYR

Maybe (For once !) I'm the one being over optimistic ?

 

Happy 

[EmersonsRed]

Top post @BobBobSuperBob, I am glad you see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel (and every other LJ doubter for that matter). We are certainly in a transition period, I understand people want quick results in football but the way we are recruiting IE. young, youthful and hungry means this may take a little longer than we'd all ideally like, but I do feel he is the right man to lead us forward. I think there is room for improvement, his tactical nativity against Brentford could've seriously cost us a hammering, his refusal to change us against Millwall could possibly have cost us two extra points, but we are moving forward. We have a team who look to play the right way, there have been several managers we have had in the past 15(?) years that have instructed hoof ball; this isn't the way we want to play. We want to get it down and play, which every fan likes to see. 

I agree, we look like we are somewhat lacking in the final third; I home Diedhou proves people wrong, including myself. But looks a yard off the pace, touch looks awful - hope we can coach that. Bobby Reid looks a different player, fair play to the manager for putting him there. Could have easily panicked and put Famara up top on his own when we had injury worries in pre-season.

LJ has received an awful lot of criticism and admittedly some of it rightly so, but the old saying in football was a manager needs 3 windows to build his team... Well we thankfully have a chairman who has given him that length of time to produce and maybe, just maybe it will pay off in the long run. 

We for the first time in a while look like we refuse to be walked over. I am excited for the next few months. This league is carnage, anybody can beat anyone. (Millwall 4-0 Norwich, Barnsley 3-1 Sunderland etc) and on our day I genuinely believe we can be a match for anybody.

[BCFC Rich]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We are starting to build a capable squad.  You cannot press at full tilt for 90, and I think we are starting to learn that in those periods where we are getting our breath back, we need to stay compact.  Last season it was in those periods that we'd inevitably concede.  

 

I would say this is an area that concerns me still, I think we press too much early on and run out of energy 2nd half, we need to learn to press in phases and take control/ get more compact in others.

I thought we actually got lucky with Villa's formation change in the 1st half. That is that it got them back in the game ruined some of the movement and space we had had and put us on the back foot for a bit. We ended up going to slower build up play for a while and that gave the players a breather. 

[Leveller]

It's nice to see such positive responses to a home draw and a general acceptance that L J as a coach may be achieving something. I've grown very irritated with so many posters declaring that L J is out of his depth and the squad is rubbish. It's early days, but our good games so far have been encouraging (pre season, league and cup) i.e. FC Twente, Barnsley, Plymouth, Watford, Villa. They outnumber our weak games, I think.

I agree with the tone of this thread. My feeling about the "final third" is that we are trying to play through the middle with close passing and that it nearly came off several times. I felt Diedhiou and Reid both payed well and we were close to breaking through but ultimately the final touches were just off. I'd have liked to see more on the flanks. Pisano and Bryan both defended well but not so good going forward - Pisano got forward but crossed poorly, Bryan didn't get forward as much as he often does. At his best, Joe can be one of our best attacksrs but I accept he can't be everywhere. His defending has been praised and perhaps that would be different if he was overlapping more.

I was disappointed Eliasson only got five minutes. We've yet to see him (at home) get a chance to show if he can make the difference. I'd have removed Brownhill after 60 minutes to try that.

[BCFC Rich]

10 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Watching back Sky's coverage last night , personally I thought LJs post match interview was possibly the best I've heard from him

3

I've just seen his post match on our website, also pretty good, balanced and realistic. Imagine it's probably pretty similar to the sky one which I missed.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/video-lee-johnson-post-aston-villa-home/

[Lanterne Rouge]

54 minutes ago, RichardEdd said:

I would say this is an area that concerns me still, I think we press too much early on and run out of energy 2nd half, we need to learn to press in phases and take control/ get more compact in others.

I thought we actually got lucky with Villa's formation change in the 1st half. That is that it got them back in the game ruined some of the movement and space we had had and put us on the back foot for a bit. We ended up going to slower build up play for a while and that gave the players a breather. 

I actually thought we did do this last night - we were content to just play it across the back four and Frankie for a minute or two now and again at various points in the game.

[BCFC Rich]

2 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I actually thought we did do this last night - we were content to just play it across the back four and Frankie for a minute or two now and again at various points in the game.

I thought we did but felt it was more about Villa getting back into than a tactical decision.

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 minute ago, RichardEdd said:

I thought we did but felt it was more about Villa getting back into than a tactical decision.

Perhaps but it was the first time I`ve seen it look `organized` for want of a better word. I got the impression the fans sensed what we were doing as well, there didn`t seem to be many grumbles and shouts of `get it forward` like there normally is.

[BCFC Rich]

1 minute ago, Red Right Hand said:

Perhaps but it was the first time I`ve seen it look `organized` for want of a better word. I got the impression the fans sensed what we were doing as well, there didn`t seem to be many grumbles and shouts of `get it forward` like there normally is.

I'd agree with that. Good to hear the crowd were on board too (couldn't tell watching on the stream). Used to drive me mad at games where you hear people talking about how they wanted us to be a ball playing side and then we'd do one backward/sideways pass and it'd be 'get it forward' or 'don't go backward city' etc 

Anyway not trying to be negative all in all I feel positive about where we're going just a slight concern that maybe we're already starting to address.

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, RichardEdd said:

I've just seen his post match on our website, also pretty good, balanced and realistic. Imagine it's probably pretty similar to the sky one which I missed.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/video-lee-johnson-post-aston-villa-home/

Similar Rich , his relaxed demeanour was more so in the Sky one - looks a bit weary and all interviewed out a bit in the Club one !

Cant disagree with anything he said other than BR / Samba was not a pen but  tbf he hadn't seen the replays

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, RichardEdd said:

I would say this is an area that concerns me still, I think we press too much early on and run out of energy 2nd half, we need to learn to press in phases and take control/ get more compact in others.

I thought we actually got lucky with Villa's formation change in the 1st half. That is that it got them back in the game ruined some of the movement and space we had had and put us on the back foot for a bit. We ended up going to slower build up play for a while and that gave the players a breather. 

Very good / interesting observation / food for thought , this and a very good one IMO

Very astute

 

Managing the game / tempo of it is vital at this level 

Read lots of posts today but think @Davefevs may have touched on something similar