Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 So rated best left back in the division last year and so far this year he is highest rated Fb again Just out of interest, do people on here still think he can't cut it as a full back http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/stats-show-bristol-city-defender-394341
Pickle Rick Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 13 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: Just out of interest, do people on here still think he can't cut it as a full back Of course they do The guys is superb and always seems to be getting better.
Robbored Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Virtually every manager whose team have played against JB at left back rate him highly so those who think he isn't any good in that position don't understand football.
Taz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 15 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: Just out of interest, do people on here still think he can't cut it as a full back Until the beginning of the season, I was still unconvinced. After closely watching his positioning against Barnsley and Plymouth (and Villa the other night) - I'm convinced. Hardly put a foot wrong in any of the games I've seen this season (don't see as many now due to living in Essex), and is looking more comfortable every time I've seen him play. What with Bobby Reid being moved up top, you could argue that Johnson has seen things, stuck to what he believed, and the rewards are beginning to show. Still need convincing that Johnson is the man to take us forward though, however I'll be more than happy to have to say he's changed my mind on that subject as well!!
wendyredredrobin Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Didnt look as strong defencively last year, but looking a lot better this year. Probably is close to being yhe best LB in the division based on this seasons performances.
cheshire_red Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Excellent from Joe, Marlon needs to pull his socks up though
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 I thought he was one of our best players last season and I was amazed at the negative posts about him
wendyredredrobin Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 19 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: I thought he was one of our best players last season and I was amazed at the negative posts about him He was going forward, but not as strong defensively as he is now. His poistioning, tackling and decision making all seem to have improved.
BCFC Grim Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 I thought he was average at best last season. Looking good so far this season.
reddogkev Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 How long is his contract with us? Tie him up for another 4 years... Has many attributes required to flourish in the Premiership, and no doubt will in the next 2 or 3 years - if he remains dedicated to his development.
Calculus Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 52 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: So rated best left back in the division last year and so far this year he is highest rated Fb again Just out of interest, do people on here still think he can't cut it as a full back http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/stats-show-bristol-city-defender-394341 I like Joe, but this nonsense is based on just 5 matches in the season - all of which have been played against teams that haven't started very well. In fact, all 5 are below us and their highest position is 15th. Let's wait a bit longer and see how he goes against the top sides before getting too carried away....
glastonred Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 His tackling during the Villa game was first class: two in particular were world class.
Big C Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 34 minutes ago, Taz said: Until the beginning of the season, I was still unconvinced. After closely watching his positioning against Barnsley and Plymouth (and Villa the other night) - I'm convinced. Hardly put a foot wrong in any of the games I've seen this season (don't see as many now due to living in Essex), and is looking more comfortable every time I've seen him play. What with Bobby Reid being moved up top, you could argue that Johnson has seen things, stuck to what he believed, and the rewards are beginning to show. Still need convincing that Johnson is the man to take us forward though, however I'll be more than happy to have to say he's changed my mind on that subject as well!! How closely did you watch him against Plymouth then?
Bristol_South_End Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Big C said: How closely did you watch him against Plymouth then? He was fantastic against Plymouth, didn't even seem to break a sweat!
Lanterne Rouge Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, Bristol_South_End said: He was fantastic against Plymouth, didn't even seem to break a sweat! I thought he went missing for long periods, I don`t remember him making one tackle. Might as well have not been on the pitch.
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Joe Bryan had started this season well and good for him and us .. But let's have a reality check last season quite a few games his defending and fitness was found wanting. He was well overdue to be dropped but for whatever reason seemed to be the first name on the sheet. Pack , smith , Paterson ... The list goes on all spent time on the bench but not Bryan ? Long may his good form continue but let's not have the blinkers on.. We are allowed to criticise our own!
Taz Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 32 minutes ago, Big C said: How closely did you watch him against Plymouth then? Well he didn't put a foot wrong did he That'll teach me to read through it before I hit submit won't it
Major Isewater Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Taz said: Until the beginning of the season, I was still unconvinced. After closely watching his positioning against Barnsley and Plymouth (and Villa the other night) - I'm convinced. Hardly put a foot wrong in any of the games I've seen this season (don't see as many now due to living in Essex), and is looking more comfortable every time I've seen him play. What with Bobby Reid being moved up top, you could argue that Johnson has seen things, stuck to what he believed, and the rewards are beginning to show. Still need convincing that Johnson is the man to take us forward though, however I'll be more than happy to have to say he's changed my mind on that subject as well!! I agree Taz . He is blossoming into the position but I still feel he is a little bit wasted there and would prefer to see him play further forward . It worked for Bobby Reid ,so knickers to you lot that want blood .
OldlandReddies Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 The two parts of his game that needs to improve is his final ball and his shooting. Get that sorted and he really will be top class.
Cowshed Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 20 minutes ago, Spoons said: . Joe Bryan had started this season well and good for him and us .. But let's have a reality check last season quite a few games his defending and fitness was found wanting. He was well overdue to be dropped but for whatever reason seemed to be the first name on the sheet. Pack , smith , Paterson ... The list goes on all spent time on the bench but not Bryan ? Long may his good form continue but let's not have the blinkers on.. We are allowed to criticise our own! His game is not about defending. He is a full back = Working the full length of the pitch keeping the ball moving and providing width. He was not dropped due to that versatility which saw him play four positions last season. He was excellent at times going forwards. That is his game. People have blinkers on regarding how football has moved on. Once the weaker links played left and right back, now they can be very offensive as this is where space is due to the way teams set up, these full backs have to be skilled to take advantage of that space. Defending is part of the role, not its primary function. Joe Bryan gets criticised because he is a local lad who has come through the academy his well rounded ability is over looked by those who think modern football is about slide tackles, getting stuck in ... A game that is long gone.
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Calculus said: I like Joe, but this nonsense is based on just 5 matches in the season - all of which have been played against teams that haven't started very well. In fact, all 5 are below us and their highest position is 15th. Let's wait a bit longer and see how he goes against the top sides before getting too carried away.... No , my point was more that he took a lot of stick last year but was apparently the best left back in the division , this year seems to be a carry on from that
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 41 minutes ago, Spoons said: Joe Bryan had started this season well and good for him and us .. But let's have a reality check last season quite a few games his defending and fitness was found wanting. He was well overdue to be dropped but for whatever reason seemed to be the first name on the sheet. Pack , smith , Paterson ... The list goes on all spent time on the bench but not Bryan ? Long may his good form continue but let's not have the blinkers on.. We are allowed to criticise our own! Why drop the best left back in the division. Ok he had the odd bad game but imo I thought he was a shining light in a poor defence
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: His game is not about defending. He is a full back = Working the full length of the pitch keeping the ball moving and providing width. He was not dropped due to that versatility which saw him play four positions last season. He was excellent at times going forwards. That is his game. People have blinkers on regarding how football has moved on. Once the weaker links played left and right back, now they can be very offensive as this is where space is due to the way teams set up, these full backs have to be skilled to take advantage of that space. Defending is part of the role, not its primary function. Joe Bryan gets criticised because he is a local lad who has come through the academy his well rounded ability is over looked by those who think modern football is about slide tackles, getting stuck in ... A game that is long gone. When you are picked as a full back in a team that was in the bottom three for a long while last season I suggest that defending was part of the reason he was picked as a left back? To be honest he wasn't effective enough going forward either last season to justify his pick in the team. I must say so far this season he's improved in every area I thought he lacked a bit last season. And for me personally I enjoy seeing joe in the team as a local lad especially as he's a backwell boy!
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: Why drop the best left back in the division. Ok he had the odd bad game but imo I thought he was a shining light in a poor defence Thing we have different opinions on joe Bryan last season. He was not the best left back in our league last season! This season however so far so good! Enjoying watching him play.
Calculus Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: No , my point was more that he took a lot of stick last year but was apparently the best left back in the division , this year seems to be a carry on from that Where does it say he was the best left back last year? That article is about this year only. Didn't think Joe was all that good last year, but he was part of a very poor defence and Lee did move him about a lot. Am very optimistic about Joe but we'll know more by Christmas - at least Lee's stopped mucking him about...
Mad Cyril Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, cheshire_red said: Excellent from Joe, Marlon needs to pull his socks up though I am all for a close team spirit but surely players should be capable of dressing themselves. Why can't Joe pull his own socks up? Who the hell sorts out his underpants? Yeuch.
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, Spoons said: Thing we have different opinions on joe Bryan last season. He was not the best left back in our league last season! This season however so far so good! Enjoying watching him play. Uhhh read the article In fact, Bryan is the top ranking full-back in the entire league, following on from ranking as the top left-back last season.
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 33 minutes ago, Calculus said: Where does it say he was the best left back last year? That article is about this year only. Didn't think Joe was all that good last year, but he was part of a very poor defence and Lee did move him about a lot. Am very optimistic about Joe but we'll know more by Christmas - at least Lee's stopped mucking him about... Same reply In fact, Bryan is the top ranking full-back in the entire league, following on from ranking as the top left-back last season. look, I am not saying he was the best in my opinion, that wouldn't be possible as I don't obviously watch every game every week, personally the guy at Fulham was the best I saw ..sseignon or however you spell it . My point is the stats say he was one of the best yet people on here were saying he was really poor , I was just asking for people's thoughts on that
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: Uhhh read the article In fact, Bryan is the top ranking full-back in the entire league, following on from ranking as the top left-back last season. If you think that joe Bryan was the best left back in our league last season you must be blind! Don't care what some stat driven article says. With my own eyes I watched him struggle for a good half a season on all aspects of his game. This season so far so good!!
nickolas Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 He is top quality - when he applies himself. Unfortunately all too often last season he looked like he couldnt give a toss. Very lazy, zero application and a real going-through-the motions performances. However, complete opposite so far this season, hes been very very good. But, would it be a tad wrong of me to suggest performances and his application are due to him being aware of suitors elsewhere and an improved set of performances may equal that nice little move elsewhere?!
The hand of RO'D Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, nickolas said: He is top quality - when he applies himself. Unfortunately all too often last season he looked like he couldnt give a toss. Very lazy, zero application and a real going-through-the motions performances. However, complete opposite so far this season, hes been very very good. But, would it be a tad wrong of me to suggest performances and his application are due to him being aware of suitors elsewhere and an improved set of performances may equal that nice little move elsewhere?! I honestly don't think joes that type of person
cheshire_red Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 McAllister will have worked closely with him, now he was a committed left back
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 29, 2017 Author Posted August 29, 2017 16 minutes ago, Spoons said: If you think that joe Bryan was the best left back in our league last season you must be blind! Don't care what some stat driven article says. With my own eyes I watched him struggle for a good half a season on all aspects of his game. This season so far so good!! Re read my post , I didn't say I thought he was the best , I said statistically he was the best rated left back in the league , yet you think he wasn't very good. Almost as good as my wife saying , world number 2 Andy Murray is crap at tennis anyway, the world would be a boring place if there were no differences of opinions
Admin Ian M Posted August 29, 2017 Admin Posted August 29, 2017 If he keeps being statistically the best full back in the division then don't be surprised to seem him leave to the Prem as next Summer's marquee sale. It seems to be our new business model, subsidise expenditure with a high value sale. Can't really argue with it so far as overall the squad appears to be getting better and hopefully next season Lloyd Kelly will be ready to come in as his direct replacement.
Cowshed Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Spoons said: When you are picked as a full back in a team that was in the bottom three for a long while last season I suggest that defending was part of the reason he was picked as a left back? To be honest he wasn't effective enough going forward either last season to justify his pick in the team. I must say so far this season he's improved in every area I thought he lacked a bit last season. And for me personally I enjoy seeing joe in the team as a local lad especially as he's a backwell boy! I would politely suggest that if defending was all that playing left back at Bristol City was about as you implied Joe Bryan would not be picked. Joe Bryan at times, not the use of times was excellent going forward, amongst performances that were also good, mediocre, sub standard last season. His performance level fully justified selection due to the inability of others particularly at left back to offer more offensively because the role is no longer about defending foremost.
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 33 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: Re read my post , I didn't say I thought he was the best , I said statistically he was the best rated left back in the league , yet you think he wasn't very good. Almost as good as my wife saying , world number 2 Andy Murray is crap at tennis anyway, the world would be a boring place if there were no differences of opinions I agree with your wife !!
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, Cowshed said: I would politely suggest that if defending was all that playing left back at Bristol City was about as you implied Joe Bryan would not be picked. Joe Bryan at times, not the use of times was excellent going forward, amongst performances that were also good, mediocre, sub standard last season. His performance level fully justified selection due to the inability of others particularly at left back to offer more offensively because the role is no longer about defending foremost. I still think the best thing that could have happened last season to joe Bryan would have been to have had a spell out of the team to come back stronger? Also he shouldn't have played just because others playing in his position weren't in great form either in your opinion. Need to make it clear I'm not bashing joe as thought he was one of the top players under SC in promtion season and just wanted him to kick on again. Looks like this season could be that season. I hope so as a on form joe Bryan would make any team in our league!!
Robbored Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Spoons said: If you think that joe Bryan was the best left back in our league last season you must be blind! Don't care what some stat driven article says. With my own eyes I watched him struggle for a good half a season on all aspects of his game. The majority of managers whose team played against Bryan rated him highly and he's a coveted LB by other clubs but you think he's struggled............ Not a good reflection on your ability to judge a player.... If Maguire can go for £17.5m then Bryan must be worth £10m at least.
Spoons Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Robbored said: The majority of managers whose team played against Bryan rated him highly and he's a coveted LB by other clubs but you think he's struggled............ Not a good reflection on your ability to judge a player.... If Maguire can go for £17.5m then Bryan must be worth £10m at least. I was judging joe Bryan on the second half of last season not this season. You are comparing maguire who is a centre back to joe Bryan who is a left back? Ive never brought value into the debate . I have no doubt if he continues to play like he has at the start of this season he will be wanted by other teams. Stats mean nothing!! Stop hiding behind stats.
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, Robbored said: The majority of managers whose team played against Bryan rated him highly and he's a coveted LB by other clubs but you think he's struggled............ Not a good reflection on your ability to judge a player.... If Maguire can go for £17.5m then Bryan must be worth £10m at least. Brentford away last season the Brentford fans applauded Bryan when he managed to connect a pass. I'm sure at one point they were even encouraging him when the ball went out of play. Never seen anything like that. Im with @Spoons in that you can't pay too much attention to stats. I can't see it being accurate enough. Can stats work out the difference between a successful pass being made to a player in space or a successful pass to a player who is marked tightly by the oppostion.
PHILINFRANCE Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 50 minutes ago, Ian M said: If he keeps being statistically the best full back in the division then don't be surprised to seem him leave to the Prem as next Summer's marquee sale. It seems to be our new business model, subsidise expenditure with a high value sale. Can't really argue with it so far as overall the squad appears to be getting better and hopefully next season Lloyd Kelly will be ready to come in as his direct replacement. Indeed, although if Lloyd Kelly continues to improve at the same rate, with both City and England, he might be our marquee sale.
JasonM88 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said: Brentford away last season the Brentford fans applauded Bryan when he managed to connect a pass. I'm sure at one point they were even encouraging him when the ball went out of play. Never seen anything like that. Didn't happen
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: Didn't happen I was there and it did. In fact it was when we were attacking the away end. Minutes later he sent a decent cross in and Tammy flicked the ball onto the post.
JasonM88 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said: I was there and it did. Sad sad human being
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: Sad sad human being What an odd little outburst this is. Do you need some attention?
Cowshed Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 18 minutes ago, Spoons said: I still think the best thing that could have happened last season to joe Bryan would have been to have had a spell out of the team to come back stronger? Also he shouldn't have played just because others playing in his position weren't in great form either in your opinion. Need to make it clear I'm not bashing joe as thought he was one of the top players under SC in promtion season and just wanted him to kick on again. Looks like this season could be that season. I hope so as a on form joe Bryan would make any team in our league!! I posted Joe Bryan justified his position due to the inability of others, not form. A offensive ability not a defensive one. He is coveted and rated due to that ability. Leaving him out of the team last season would not have been justified because he frequently made significant contributions going forward in a team that at times was a shambles. Joe Bryan did not cease being top talented once Steve Cotterill left. He destroyed Luke Ayling at Leeds last season. His defensive deficiencies were exposed by the teams own defensive deficiencies and constant change. More stable tactics and his defensive deficiencies are being better Managed ... No coincidence.
JasonM88 Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said: What an odd little outburst this is. Do you need some attention? Not an outburst at all, at this moment in time I'm as cool as a cucumber.
Cowshed Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said: Can stats work out the difference between a successful pass being made to a player in space or a successful pass to a player who is marked tightly by the oppostion. If you want a performance analytical model to do that yes.
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cowshed said: If you want a performance analytical model to do that yes. Maybe they use that already who knows.
Aaron-Bcfc Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: Didn't happen Yes it did
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Yes it did I'm not going mad then. It wasn't all game but for a few minutes.
Lrrr Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 Joe was at his best when playing wing back for us, going up a division and converting to a full back seemed to knock him back a bit but good to see he's getting back to the standards we've seen from him before.
RumRed Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said: Brentford away last season the Brentford fans applauded Bryan when he managed to connect a pass. I'm sure at one point they were even encouraging him when the ball went out of play. Never seen anything like that. Im with @Spoons in that you can't pay too much attention to stats. I can't see it being accurate enough. Can stats work out the difference between a successful pass being made to a player in space or a successful pass to a player who is marked tightly by the oppostion. He was bloody dire at Brentford last season, couldn't believe how poor he was.
Robbored Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said: Im with @Spoons in that you can't pay too much attention to stats. I can't see it being accurate enough. Can stats work out the difference between a successful pass being made to a player in space or a successful pass to a player who is marked tightly by the oppostion. I've not seen the stats. I m pointing out that pretty much every manager whose team faces Bryan rate him highly. I pay more attention to the opinion of professional managers than your average football fan.
City Ben Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Ian M said: If he keeps being statistically the best full back in the division then don't be surprised to seem him leave to the Prem as next Summer's marquee sale. It seems to be our new business model, subsidise expenditure with a high value sale. Can't really argue with it so far as overall the squad appears to be getting better and hopefully next season Lloyd Kelly will be ready to come in as his direct replacement. I think if that happens - sell a youth product to the Prem for big bucks, and replace him with another youth product, maybe one with even more potential - then the board etc would be delighted. That would be the perfect example of our player dealing model in action. We'd be like a mini-Monaco
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Robbored said: I've not seen the stats. I m pointing out that pretty much every manager whose team faces Bryan rate him highly. I pay more attention to the opinion of professional managers than your average football fan. Really? Could you provide a list of the names of managers that have singled out Bryan for praise? Links would be useful too. Thanks in advance.
Ben4BCFC Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Interestingly, Lineker called Rooney a players' player earlier this week - in that ex-players and managers all believe he is one of the best players around still and has to be on the team sheet, yet fans seem to think they know better and don't like to rate him. Same can be said for some other players, most recent one being Jonny Evans - Fergie played him, Mourinho wanted to keep him and apparently Pep Guardiola and Wenger want him. Yet so many football fans can't see anything good in him. Anyway, I digress. My point was, JB strikes me as this sort of player. Now I myself am guilty of having days where I think, "Why is he still being played at LB?" but more often than not he's solid, and people forget he's still very young. He's been around so long that it seems he should be a well matured, cultured player, but he still has his best years above him. Bobby Reid too, as this season and slight shift in what is being asked of him proving that. Interestingly enough, I feel we have a few more of those 'players' players', the most obvious in my mind being Marlon Pack. I know I'm not on my own in rating the bloke highly, always have. But I know that those of us that do are often in the minority - or have been for some time. A class act who, because he may not score or assist a great deal, and often does the small linking bits between back 3/4/5 and the attacking players on the pitch, he is often overlooked. But again, I've digressed. JB. Top LB, who still has time for improvement. The fact that he's been around so long and still making the odd mistake makes people forget how much he has to offer and can still improve. Look at Ayling. A lot of people rated him, but nothing to the extent he is playing at now. If JB went, he could become one of the best LBs outside, or even at the lower echelons, of the Prem. And recognisably so, not just by the statistics.
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Really? Could you provide a list of the names of managers that have singled out Bryan for praise? Links would be useful too. Thanks in advance. Firstly Bryan is an undoubted challenge and has in general started this season well. But as for last season, stats just go to show how totally misleading they can be and how lacking in reliability they actually are, a bit like JB of last season. i'm with you on this the evidence for much of last season is overwhelming.
Trueredsupporter Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, hodge said: Joe was at his best when playing wing back for us, going up a division and converting to a full back seemed to knock him back a bit but good to see he's getting back to the standards we've seen from him before. Joe Bryan was playing several positions last season in a unsettled team which at times had so many changes it looked like desperation. As people pointed out last season on this forum when he was getting coated off and it was being suggested he only played to justify the academies existence. he was playing erratically sometimes well decent very well poor and needed to play in a stable position and team that did not change game to game half to half.
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 30, 2017 Author Posted August 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Spoons said: I was judging joe Bryan on the second half of last season not this season. You are comparing maguire who is a centre back to joe Bryan who is a left back? Ive never brought value into the debate . I have no doubt if he continues to play like he has at the start of this season he will be wanted by other teams. Stats mean nothing!! Stop hiding behind stats. With technology today, most transfers / interest in players are based on stats compiled by scouts. A lot of fans would rather 2 lee Tomlin's in the team rather than 2 Joe Bryan's for example because when on the ball tomlin looked class. When you look at the stats, and see how lazy he was then you will see that as a team we were more frail with tomlin in it I might have exaggerated slightly but to say stats mean nothing is a bizarre comment imo
Cowshed Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Firstly Bryan is an undoubted challenge and has in general started this season well. But as for last season, stats just go to show how totally misleading they can be and how lacking in reliability they actually are, a bit like JB of last season. i'm with you on this the evidence for much of last season is overwhelming. Odd statements. Football statistics are whatever you want them to be = What is being monitored and its intent, what raw data is used and how the outcome is looked at. A players data accumulated over thirty plus games and nine months will highlight reliably single truths, if this is what the intent of the data is . That data will confirm often what we know, but it will often also combat our own in built bias.
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Odd statements. Football statistics are whatever you want them to be = What is being monitored and its intent, what raw data is used and how the outcome is looked at. A players data accumulated over thirty plus games and nine months will highlight reliably single truths, if this is what the intent of the data is . That data will confirm often what we know, but it will often also combat our own in built bias. Not odd at all, my eyes told me performance wise that towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department.
Cowshed Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Not odd at all, my eyes told me performance wise that towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. And your mind can be influenced by good old confirmation bias and the minds ability to feed itself with negatives ... One look at passing, crossing data for a couple of months (towards the end of the season) can confirm if your bias was wrong, or you are correct However you introduced your own bias and flip flopped from much of last season to towards the end of last season. That bias can be combatted by simply looking at each area of a players game with stats v norms. Joe Bryan could excel in crossing while as you unequivocally state be very poor in the rest of his game.
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cowshed said: And your mind can be influenced by good old confirmation bias and the minds ability to feed itself with negatives ... One look at passing, crossing data for a couple of months (towards the end of the season) can confirm if your bias was wrong, or you are correct However you introduced your own bias and flip flopped from much of last season to towards the end of last season. That bias can be combatted by simply looking at each area of a players game with stats v norms. Joe Bryan could excel in crossing while as you unequivocally state be very poor in the rest of his game. Hey if you believe JB was consistent last season then fine, I couldn't give a shit. And if you insist on being pedantic, I will be clear, from the horrendous run in October until about the end of April, take a good look at many of the goals conceded and the build up to those goals and take a look at JB's part in those goals conceded, a good starting point off of the top of my head take a look at Brentford away and Villa away. My question is where does any of that appear in the stats?.
Phileas Fogg Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Oh god, two of the argumentative on the forum locking horns! We could be here a while
cidered abroad Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 Is anyone else allowed to join in? I consider that Joe Bryan is a very good footballer who like everybody on this planet, sometimes makes mistakes. He'll do for me as long as he wants to play for us and we want him.
Cowshed Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Hey if you believe JB was consistent last season then fine, I couldn't give a shit. And if you insist on being pedantic, I will be clear, from the horrendous run in October until about the end of April, take a good look at many of the goals conceded and the build up to those goals and take a look at JB's part in those goals conceded, a good starting point off of the top of my head take a look at Brentford away and Villa away. My question is where does any of that appear in the stats?. Nowhere have I stated Joe Bryan was consistent ... I am merely pointing out how paper thin your view is. You have made sweeping statements regarding a player - towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. I do not think apart from Tony Dinning at Luton have I seen a player be poor at everything. It is hyperbole, and that is what you get on forums, extremes of thought. Players are simply not very poor at everything, they are average at that, better at that, good at that, very good, do not even let him near that .. You have failed to highlight when Joe Bryan played well or made significant contributions. He did. Offensively. Stats will highlight whatever you want them to, a whole game or aspects. You chose to completely dismiss statistics you yourself have not interpreted or investigated. I would expect Joe Bryans 1v1 stats (it is possible to monitor them) to highlight significant room for improvement, but his overall game to be highly rounded. And it is that rounded ability in a role at full back that now requires players to have universal qualities that sees him so highly thought of ...
Mendip Broadwalk Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Not odd at all, my eyes told me performance wise that towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. What were his thrown ins like?
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