Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Really? Could you provide a list of the names of managers that have singled out Bryan for praise? Links would be useful too. Thanks in advance. Firstly Bryan is an undoubted challenge and has in general started this season well. But as for last season, stats just go to show how totally misleading they can be and how lacking in reliability they actually are, a bit like JB of last season. i'm with you on this the evidence for much of last season is overwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, hodge said: Joe was at his best when playing wing back for us, going up a division and converting to a full back seemed to knock him back a bit but good to see he's getting back to the standards we've seen from him before. Joe Bryan was playing several positions last season in a unsettled team which at times had so many changes it looked like desperation. As people pointed out last season on this forum when he was getting coated off and it was being suggested he only played to justify the academies existence. he was playing erratically sometimes well decent very well poor and needed to play in a stable position and team that did not change game to game half to half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Spoons said: I was judging joe Bryan on the second half of last season not this season. You are comparing maguire who is a centre back to joe Bryan who is a left back? Ive never brought value into the debate . I have no doubt if he continues to play like he has at the start of this season he will be wanted by other teams. Stats mean nothing!! Stop hiding behind stats. With technology today, most transfers / interest in players are based on stats compiled by scouts. A lot of fans would rather 2 lee Tomlin's in the team rather than 2 Joe Bryan's for example because when on the ball tomlin looked class. When you look at the stats, and see how lazy he was then you will see that as a team we were more frail with tomlin in it I might have exaggerated slightly but to say stats mean nothing is a bizarre comment imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Firstly Bryan is an undoubted challenge and has in general started this season well. But as for last season, stats just go to show how totally misleading they can be and how lacking in reliability they actually are, a bit like JB of last season. i'm with you on this the evidence for much of last season is overwhelming. Odd statements. Football statistics are whatever you want them to be = What is being monitored and its intent, what raw data is used and how the outcome is looked at. A players data accumulated over thirty plus games and nine months will highlight reliably single truths, if this is what the intent of the data is . That data will confirm often what we know, but it will often also combat our own in built bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Odd statements. Football statistics are whatever you want them to be = What is being monitored and its intent, what raw data is used and how the outcome is looked at. A players data accumulated over thirty plus games and nine months will highlight reliably single truths, if this is what the intent of the data is . That data will confirm often what we know, but it will often also combat our own in built bias. Not odd at all, my eyes told me performance wise that towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Not odd at all, my eyes told me performance wise that towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. And your mind can be influenced by good old confirmation bias and the minds ability to feed itself with negatives ... One look at passing, crossing data for a couple of months (towards the end of the season) can confirm if your bias was wrong, or you are correct However you introduced your own bias and flip flopped from much of last season to towards the end of last season. That bias can be combatted by simply looking at each area of a players game with stats v norms. Joe Bryan could excel in crossing while as you unequivocally state be very poor in the rest of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cowshed said: And your mind can be influenced by good old confirmation bias and the minds ability to feed itself with negatives ... One look at passing, crossing data for a couple of months (towards the end of the season) can confirm if your bias was wrong, or you are correct However you introduced your own bias and flip flopped from much of last season to towards the end of last season. That bias can be combatted by simply looking at each area of a players game with stats v norms. Joe Bryan could excel in crossing while as you unequivocally state be very poor in the rest of his game. Hey if you believe JB was consistent last season then fine, I couldn't give a shit. And if you insist on being pedantic, I will be clear, from the horrendous run in October until about the end of April, take a good look at many of the goals conceded and the build up to those goals and take a look at JB's part in those goals conceded, a good starting point off of the top of my head take a look at Brentford away and Villa away. My question is where does any of that appear in the stats?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Oh god, two of the argumentative on the forum locking horns! We could be here a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Is anyone else allowed to join in? I consider that Joe Bryan is a very good footballer who like everybody on this planet, sometimes makes mistakes. He'll do for me as long as he wants to play for us and we want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Hey if you believe JB was consistent last season then fine, I couldn't give a shit. And if you insist on being pedantic, I will be clear, from the horrendous run in October until about the end of April, take a good look at many of the goals conceded and the build up to those goals and take a look at JB's part in those goals conceded, a good starting point off of the top of my head take a look at Brentford away and Villa away. My question is where does any of that appear in the stats?. Nowhere have I stated Joe Bryan was consistent ... I am merely pointing out how paper thin your view is. You have made sweeping statements regarding a player - towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. I do not think apart from Tony Dinning at Luton have I seen a player be poor at everything. It is hyperbole, and that is what you get on forums, extremes of thought. Players are simply not very poor at everything, they are average at that, better at that, good at that, very good, do not even let him near that .. You have failed to highlight when Joe Bryan played well or made significant contributions. He did. Offensively. Stats will highlight whatever you want them to, a whole game or aspects. You chose to completely dismiss statistics you yourself have not interpreted or investigated. I would expect Joe Bryans 1v1 stats (it is possible to monitor them) to highlight significant room for improvement, but his overall game to be highly rounded. And it is that rounded ability in a role at full back that now requires players to have universal qualities that sees him so highly thought of ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Not odd at all, my eyes told me performance wise that towards the end of last season JB was poor, very poor in every single department. What were his thrown ins like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Three Lions said: What were his thrown ins like? You would have to check the stats for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 13 hours ago, Robbored said: I've not seen the stats. I m pointing out that pretty much every manager whose team faces Bryan rate him highly. I pay more attention to the opinion of professional managers than your average football fan. If I'm a average football fan then what the bloody hell are you ?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: You would have to check the stats for that. Would you have Joe Bryan in our side or would you replace him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: With technology today, most transfers / interest in players are based on stats compiled by scouts. A lot of fans would rather 2 lee Tomlin's in the team rather than 2 Joe Bryan's for example because when on the ball tomlin looked class. When you look at the stats, and see how lazy he was then you will see that as a team we were more frail with tomlin in it I might have exaggerated slightly but to say stats mean nothing is a bizarre comment imo You talking about lazy did you see how lazy or unfit joe was last season after he lost the ball bombing forward for the 20th time of the game!! He would just jog back without a care in the world !! luckily this seems to have changed this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said: Would you have Joe Bryan in our side or would you replace him? I would have him in our side on this seasons form. Last season no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 12 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: Really? Could you provide a list of the names of managers that have singled out Bryan for praise? Links would be useful too. Thanks in advance. Don't you know robbored had all the chamionship managers numbers on speed dial !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said: Would you have Joe Bryan in our side or would you replace him? Well having just re reading my replies for some reason this came out "Firstly Bryan is an undoubted challenge and has in general started this season well". it should have read talent. He has started the season well even at Brentford he did little wrong. My point is about stats and his performances for much of last season. But to answer your question if his consistency so far this season remains at the levels that he has already set then no I would not replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Spoons said: I would have him in our side on this seasons form. Last season no. Well it's all about the now aint it? Bryan has all the skills needed and all the physical side to his game. And to think we have another one coming on so quickly behind him is amazing. In the last 30 years at left back, Scott,Barnard,Bell,Brennan, MCcalister. Before that Briggs and Swenney. Without a doubt left backs we have been blessed with over the years. Now for the other 10 positions!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 He sure is a fantastic player when he can be bothered. Glad he's bothering this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Sergio Georgini said: He sure is a fantastic player when he can be bothered. Glad he's bothering this season. Serious question, do you believe he turns it on and off when it suits him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Spoons said: If I'm a average football fan then what the bloody hell are you ?!! I'm an average football fan just like the rest of us, but I pay more attention to professionals opinions than to those of the rest of us...... In theory they have a greater knowledge and understanding of the game than the average fan so imv their opinions have a greater level of credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 On 29/08/2017 at 22:29, Ian M said: If he keeps being statistically the best full back in the division then don't be surprised to seem him leave to the Prem as next Summer's marquee sale. It seems to be our new business model, subsidise expenditure with a high value sale. Can't really argue with it so far as overall the squad appears to be getting better and hopefully next season Lloyd Kelly will be ready to come in as his direct replacement. Not sure Kelly would be quite ready next season (has impressed me so far mind) but I do think he is the replacement for Bryan mid-long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Spoons said: I would have him in our side on this seasons form. Last season no. ok so just to clear this up, you didn't rate Bryan last year, I did just out of interest who would you have played instead ? Golbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 30, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: ok so just to clear this up, you didn't rate Bryan last year, I did just out of interest who would you have played instead ? Golbourne But it was his exposure there that taught him the role so that by the end (and I don't agree with @Esmond Million's Bung here) he was pretty competent there and we were generally conceding less at the end (not withstanding the total team capitulation at Preston). This season is merely a continuation of that form in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said: ok so just to clear this up, you didn't rate Bryan last year, I did just out of interest who would you have played instead ? Golbourne I would have dropped Bryan and played magnuson left back or goldbourne . He needed to be rested to improve ! You don't just keep a player clearly out of form in the team especially when you have two experienced deputies ! Not sure we will ever agree on this but both happy about his form this season ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Spoons said: I would have dropped Bryan and played magnuson left back or goldbourne . He needed to be rested to improve ! You don't just keep a player clearly out of form in the team especially when you have two experienced deputies ! Not sure we will ever agree on this but both happy about his form this season ! Ok I get your point but tbh on some performances we could have dropped 11 players each week I personally rated him ( ok he had a few bad games but all players do ) and statistically he was rated best left back but you don't rate him, that's your porogotive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 13 hours ago, Cowshed said: And your mind can be influenced by good old confirmation bias and the minds ability to feed itself with negatives ... One look at passing, crossing data for a couple of months (towards the end of the season) can confirm if your bias was wrong, or you are correct However you introduced your own bias and flip flopped from much of last season to towards the end of last season. That bias can be combatted by simply looking at each area of a players game with stats v norms. Joe Bryan could excel in crossing while as you unequivocally state be very poor in the rest of his game. Moneyball - the book perfectly covers the use of stats vs your own bias. Baseball is not a fluid game like football, but there are very relevant stats, and some misleading ones too. It's about piecing together the right ones. Bryan - for all his criticism last season at LB, rarely cost us goals. I think most criticism would've been labelled at what he did with the ball / in the final third. Had Bryan not been a flying wing-back in 14/15 and had only ever played LB, might we think he was a dependable defensive LB who rarely let us down, who has some inconsistent potential going forward? Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 From the Norwich Forum View of a opponents fan Joe Bryan If NCFC are serious about trying to improve a somewhat woeful defence before the transfer deadline passes, they should test Bristol City's resolve by making a hefty bid for the best left-back in the Championship bar none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: From the Norwich Forum View of a opponents fan Joe Bryan If NCFC are serious about trying to improve a somewhat woeful defence before the transfer deadline passes, they should test Bristol City's resolve by making a hefty bid for the best left-back in the Championship bar none. Hmmm intetesting. I do worry about the interest in him from some of the bigger clubs. Question is would Joe Bryan want to move yet or in the next couple of seasons if we continue to be a bottom 8 side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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