Joe Bryan

[Red Army 75]

15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

From the Norwich  Forum

View of a opponents fan

 

Joe Bryan

If NCFC are serious about trying to improve a somewhat woeful defence before the transfer deadline passes, they should test Bristol City's resolve by making a hefty bid for the best left-back in the Championship bar none.

 

I've personally always rated JB . And this season so far he's definitely showed his qualities . Good player. And underrated 

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Hmmm intetesting. I do worry about the interest in him from some of the bigger clubs. Question is would Joe Bryan want to move yet or in the next couple of seasons if we continue to be a bottom 8 side.

Not convinced , for a number of reasons , that he's happy here atm 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Hmmm intetesting. I do worry about the interest in him from some of the bigger clubs. Question is would Joe Bryan want to move yet or in the next couple of seasons if we continue to be a bottom 8 side.

I think that's just someone's opinion on a Norwich forum rather than a rumour; bit like us calling for the club to sign Jackson Irvine.

I reckon our asking price for Joe would be very very high.

[Olé]

On 29 August 2017 at 18:44, Robbored said:

Virtually every manager whose team have played against JB at left back rate him highly so those who think he isn't any good in that position don't understand football.

What a typically provocative comment. Did you actually watch any of our performances last season? I have all the time in the world for Joe Bryan, but his positioning and marking were an absolute disaster for a lot of the last campaign, and I'm fairly sure both he and the manager know this themselves as it was a source of some friction between them (although you could be right about them not understanding football.) I still have nightmares about his performance at Brentford when he kept losing their attacking players, and even when we won up at Wigan his positioning was all over the shop. I'm sure he'll go on to be very good because he is intelligent and athletic, but let's not rewrite history. "Virtually every manager" where are you getting this all from?!

[Kodjias Wrist]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's just someone's opinion on a Norwich forum rather than a rumour; bit like us calling for the club to sign Jackson Irvine.

I reckon our asking price for Joe would be very very high.

Yeah of course but we know there has been interest from Leeds and Brum at least and its only a matter of time until bigger clubs actually come in for him.

Yeah I hope so.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Yeah of course but we know there has been interest from Leeds and Bum at least and its only a matter of time until bigger clubs actually come in for him.

Yeah I hope so.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Yeah of course but we know there has been interest from Leeds and Bum at least and its only a matter of time until bigger clubs actually come in for him.

Yeah I hope so.

Was there a bid from Leeds? I can only remember Birmingham actually bidding. 

I reckon our asking price would be over £10m for Joe; even if it puts other clubs off.

[Kodjias Wrist]

 

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Was there a bid from Leeds? I can only remember Birmingham actually bidding. 

I reckon our asking price would be over £10m for Joe; even if it puts other clubs off.

Not that I'm aware of although news sites rumoured Leeds and Middlesboro did. Just rumours at the end of the day but hardly surprising theres interest.

[BobBobSuperBob]

19 minutes ago, Olé said:

What a typically provocative comment. Did you actually watch any of our performances last season? I have all the time in the world for Joe Bryan, but his positioning and marking were an absolute disaster for a lot of the last campaign, and I'm fairly sure both he and the manager know this themselves as it was a source of some friction between them

(although you could be right about them not understanding football.) I still have nightmares about his performance at Brentford when he kept losing their attacking players, and even when we won up at Wigan his positioning was all over the shop. I'm sure he'll go on to be very good because he is intelligent and athletic, but let's not rewrite history. "Virtually every manager" where are you getting this all from?!

One of the great mysteries for me Ole

Spent some time in games last season watching JB closely and his positioning and reactions off the ball and you are correct in what you say

JB has all the physical and technical attributes you'd want in a top top full back and clearly a intelligent and professional lad

as you've said it's his positioning that seems to be his Achilles heel and for the life of me I can't understand why that's the case

I get the impression that what LJ wants / thinks is not what JB thinks a lot of the time

Ultimately I'm a JB fan , I've said previously he can look Premiership quality one minute and Conference the next , caught out f position - frustrating

He certainly he seems to be well respected amongst opposition fans and managers 

Think he will get his Premiership opportunity in the  future

 

[JBFC II]

Frank Fielding said that he is the most talented player we have at the club on Monday night, as did Marlon Pack in the BBC Radio Bristol Forum.

Joe is a seriously good player and could definitely play in the premiership, there aren't many other left backs who can run at defenders, cross the ball with both feet, and also defend. Add to the fact he's still young and English and I can see why premiership clubs are looking at him

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Olé said:

What a typically provocative comment. Did you actually watch any of our performances last season? I have all the time in the world for Joe Bryan, but his positioning and marking were an absolute disaster for a lot of the last campaign, and I'm fairly sure both he and the manager know this themselves as it was a source of some friction between them (although you could be right about them not understanding football.) I still have nightmares about his performance at Brentford when he kept losing their attacking players, and even when we won up at Wigan his positioning was all over the shop. I'm sure he'll go on to be very good because he is intelligent and athletic

That's your view and tbh it's not a view that I share. 

Like all players JB has fluctuations in their performances but generally he's a very reliable LB who can get forward and get in some decent crosses.

He's widely admired in the Championship as one of the bettter full backs.

City will do well to hang on to him.

[Cowshed]

19 minutes ago, Olé said:

What a typically provocative comment. Did you actually watch any of our performances last season? I have all the time in the world for Joe Bryan, but his positioning and marking were an absolute disaster for a lot of the last campaign, and I'm fairly sure both he and the manager know this themselves as it was a source of some friction between them (although you could be right about them not understanding football.) I still have nightmares about his performance at Brentford when he kept losing their attacking players, and even when we won up at Wigan his positioning was all over the shop. I'm sure he'll go on to be very good because he is intelligent and athletic, but let's not rewrite history. "Virtually every manager" where are you getting this all from?!

It is not that provocative (for once).

What is the modern full back? A specialist who just defends? Or something else? 

The teams shape last season was a disaster as you eloquently articulated. Defending is about the control of space. The team itself did not know if it was pressing, screening, dropping, denying ... The team had comedy moments as it sometimes went to pressing/dropping/high lines at the same time and then there was messr Tomlin in a high tempo press ...   Its a team game. Its components did not know what they were doing. It was pathetic as a team for months. Youth teams have a better shape ... Something I posted last season.

It is no surprise that Joe Bryan appears to have metamorphosed into half decent at defending, as the team also have gone through the same change in form. As  pointed out last season, stop fannying around with differing ideas on defending, pick a settled XI and the team and its individuals will improve, they have.

Having a family member playing in an academy I have had the benefit of hearing what BCFC  staff think of Joe Bryan.  They enthuse about him, and their view is not dissimilar to Mr Robbored's. 

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Moneyball - the book perfectly covers the use of stats vs your own bias.  Baseball is not a fluid game like football, but there are very relevant stats, and some misleading ones too.  It's about piecing together the right ones.

Bryan - for all his criticism last season at LB, rarely cost us goals.  I think most criticism would've been labelled at what he did with the ball / in the final third.

Had Bryan not been a flying wing-back in 14/15 and had only ever played LB, might we think he was a dependable defensive LB who rarely let us down, who has some inconsistent potential going forward?  Dunno.  

I  have qualifications in psychology (football) and also football which allowed me to visit Manchester Citys training facility. Its sci fi stuff what can be done with technology x football and its metrics. 

The psychology of this is fascinating because you are often confronted with facts that confirm you are entirely wrong in your own thinking - There is a conviction on here that Joe Bryan crossing/final ball is poor. That conviction can instantly be discredited by A/ Knowing what normal successful crossing ratios are (spectacularly low) and B/ What Joe Bryans are. A/ You will find in moneyball and everything you know about football is wrong ... 

[spudski]

When looking at Stats, you have to take into account so many other issues when reading them.

For example....Interceptions.... say JB had a high score of interceptions.....Do those stats show, that the interception was made after our midfielder closed down and pressed the opposition player who made the intercepted pass? Or was it just a poor pass? Or did JB do all the work in closing down?

Every Stat shows a figure...but does it show how that figure became?

That's why you still need to watch with your own eyes....why we still use scouts. Take away their bias....and use with stats....and it will give you a pretty unbiased view.

Interestingly these stats shown in the OP....show we as a Club have pretty high scoring defenders and Goalkeepers....and our lowest scoring being our Midfielders.

Over worked defenders, working their socks off, to cover the inadequacy of our midfield? Both offensively and defensively....

Funnily we didn't need Stats to prove that....we've witnessed it with our own eyes.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 hours ago, Spoons said:

I would have dropped Bryan and played magnuson left back or goldbourne . He needed to be rested to improve ! 

You don't just keep a player clearly out of form in the team especially when you have two experienced deputies ! 

Not sure we will ever agree on this but both happy about his form this season !

Indeed, the (according to LJ) very competent international left back, who has played there for BCFC a grand total of once.

Exactly how I see it.

[spudski]

Look at the way we play...high tempo, with overlapping wingbacks.

JB and Pissano are both played in the FB position, because of their offensive capabilities, not just their defensive.

Magners is a capable defender....but in the system we play? Is he capable of high energy blasts down the wing, crossing etc that's being asked of our FB/WB's?

Kelly and Vyner are more like Pisanno and JB.

Magners I see as cover for Bailey Wright, or if we are changing our game plan in a game, and play with a more defensive back four, with more reliance on a typical winger in front, or 433.

He, imo, just doesn't fit the system we are playing at the moment, unless played as a CB.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Look at the way we play...high tempo, with overlapping wingbacks.

JB and Pissano are both played in the FB position, because of their offensive capabilities, not just their defensive.

Magners is a capable defender....but in the system we play? Is he capable of high energy blasts down the wing, crossing etc that's being asked of our FB/WB's?

Kelly and Vyner are more like Pisanno and JB.

Magners I see as cover for Bailey Wright, or if we are changing our game plan in a game, and play with a more defensive back four, with more reliance on a typical winger in front, or 433.

He, imo, just doesn't fit the system we are playing at the moment, unless played as a CB.

Obviously nowhere near enough thought put into this signing then.

[Leveller]

7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Obviously nowhere near enough thought put into this signing then.

Unless of course he was bought as cover for CB, which is how he is being used!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Unless of course he was bought as cover for CB, which is how he is being used!

2.2mil for cover?

[Leveller]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

2.2mil for cover?

Cover with potential to become first choice if he makes the grade.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Obviously nowhere near enough thought put into this signing then.

You need a squad of players that are capable of playing different ways EMB.

If I needed a Defensive LB for a game, as well as cover for a left sided CB....who would I choose? Magners.

Surely we would be scathing of a manager/coach if we didn't have options in the squad?

This is the problem....we buy players, and certain fans automatically think they have been brought in as a starting 11 player.

Holden mentioned in an interview this week, we are looking to bring in players that can double up in positions ie Leko, Eliasson, in competition for our wide midfield positions....plus for other eventualities.

You have a squad...keeping players happy is a problem, but a good problem to have.

People often ask why certain players aren't playing....you can't fit them all in.

As for 2.2 million....Yes...that's the going rate of players these days in the Champ unfortunately. Whether we think it's good value or not.

It reminds me of my old man saying...'What...£3.50 for a pint?'....yes Dad....it's called inflation :laugh: ;-)

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

You need a squad of players that are capable of playing different ways EMB.

If I needed a Defensive LB for a game, as well as cover for a left sided CB....who would I choose? Magners.

Surely we would be scathing of a manager/coach if we didn't have options in the squad?

This is the problem....we buy players, and certain fans automatically think they have been brought in as a starting 11 player.

Holden mentioned in an interview this week, we are looking to bring in players that can double up in positions ie Leko, Eliasson, in competition for our wide midfield positions....plus for other eventualities.

You have a squad...keeping players happy is a problem, but a good problem to have.

People often ask why certain players aren't playing....you can't fit them all in.

As for 2.2 million....Yes...that's the going rate of players these days in the Champ unfortunately. Whether we think it's good value or not.

It reminds me of my old man saying...'What...£3.50 for a pint?'....yes Dad....it's called inflation ;-)

 

Once more agree to disagree.

We are BCFC we do not spend 2.2 mil on a back up player, that is clubs with parachute payments, if we have money to spend on Magnússon, Engvall, O'Dowda all into their 2nd season of back up/potential, then I believe for that money we could actually have something close to a fit for purpose midfield, an area that once more looks like being ignored and just to add to that and bring the conversation back on track, a fit for purpose midfield that might have not contributed to the drop in form that Bryan suffered last season.

[megansdad]

27 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Obviously nowhere near enough thought put into this signing then.

but was Magners not signed when we were looking to play 3-5-2 a system to which he was well suited? equally think he can play in a 4 and will develop further.

 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Once more agree to disagree.

We are BCFC we do not spend 2.2 mil on a back up player, that is clubs with parachute payments, if we have money to spend on Magnússon, Engvall, O'Dowda all into their 2nd season of back up/potential, then I believe for that money we could actually have something close to fit for purpose midfield, an area that once more looks like being ignored.

You know I agree with you about the midfield mate...however you are wrong about money being spent on squad players...that is the price we pay these days.

Look at the players you mention, and the unproven Diedeu at £5 million plus...these are the sums that we pay now. It is the going rate.

Teams with parachute payments etc are paying far more for players.

You also have to remember...we are having to pay out larger sums (to us ), as we have to upgrade the squad quality by comparison to other clubs, that have been in this league longer.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, megansdad said:

but was Magners not signed when we were looking to play 3-5-2 a system to which he was well suited? equally think he can play in a 4 and will develop further.

 

A system we have tried 2 or 3 times only since his signing, he's 24 years old and a current international, if he is not ready to play for a bottom half championship team he will never be.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

You know I agree with you about the midfield mate...however you are wrong about money being spent on squad players...that is the price we pay these days.

Look at the players you mention, and the unproven Diedeu at £5 million plus...these are the sums that we pay now. It is the going rate.

Teams with parachute payments etc are paying far more for players.

You also have to remember...we are having to pay out larger sums (to us ), as we have to upgrade the squad quality by comparison to other clubs, that have been in this league longer.

I am not arguing about the fees, that is just a smokescreen. I am well aware of player values.

My argument is about spending such amounts on back up players, surely there are enough domestic players available on free transfers/a fraction of the cost, especially given that many including LJ obviously have little faith in Magnússon, it has been an expensive signing for little or no return ala Engvall and ODowda.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I am not arguing about the fees, that is just a smokescreen. I am well aware of player values.

My argument is about spending such amounts on back up players, surely there are enough domestic players available on free transfers/a fraction of the cost, especially given that many including LJ obviously have little faith in Magnússon, it has been an expensive signing for little or no return ala Engvall and ODowda.

I think the way of thinking, is that there is potential value in these players, both in increased market value and player development. That's the way we roll these days. We don't want journeyman average pros, that are bench warmers, with no motivation to improve.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think the way of thinking, is that there is potential value in these players, both in increased market value and player development. That's the way we roll these days. We don't want journeyman average pros, that are bench warmers, with no motivation to improve.

So 14 months on how much has the potential fees for Magnússon, Engvall and ODowda increased?.

And how many of our 'true' rivals have adopted this system?.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

So 14 months on how much has the potential fees for Magnússon, Engvall and ODowda increased?.

And how many of our 'true' rivals have adopted this system?.

I would say with the ridiculous amount of inflation in the championship, we wouldn't lose money, possibly make money.

How many have adopted the Brentford system?

It's our system...trying to do something different, to many of the other clubs, that have been doing the same thing over and over for many seasons and going nowhere.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

23 minutes ago, spudski said:

I would say with the ridiculous amount of inflation in the championship, we wouldn't lose money, possibly make money.

How many have adopted the Brentford system?

It's our system...trying to do something different, to many of the other clubs, that have been doing the same thing over and over for many seasons and going nowhere.

Well I think we would lose money, none of them have improved and none are regulars. Of course we could always say that we received 2.9mil each for them, that might work?.

And of course I forgot the 2 journeymen ONeil and Tomlin signed under the present, no journeymen only potential regime.

Spud I can see a lot of progress in many areas of our club and I am truly glad for that, however I look at our transfer policy and it has to be said that it is hit or miss at best, we pay 2.2 mil for a CB who has been described as too lightweight for the English game and LJ obviously does not rate at all and Brum pay 2 mil for a proven championship CB and there is only 2 years difference in age.

But let me offer another topic that has been spoken about before and even by ex players, is the real problem that LJ cannot handle the bigger profile players?.