Atalanta v Everton

[Red Army 75]

Random I know. But what a fantastic atmosphere and spectacle. Our atmosphere in this country is appalling. With the restrictions put on our fans . English football is embarrassing . Atmosphere wise 

[steviestevieneville]

Cologne fans in London today  between 10-20,000 and all having a proper sing song , mental 

[Red Army 75]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

What restrictions are there?

Granted hardly any. But how fans are treated suppress the atmosphere. 

[Wanderingred]

In the last few years, I've been to games in Brazil, Italy, Serbia, China and Taiwan.. All of them. absolutely p1ss over the modern atmosphere inside UK stadiums.

[Red Army 75]

3 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

In the last few years, I've been to games in Brazil, Italy, Serbia, China and Taiwan.. All of them. absolutely p1ss over the modern atmosphere inside UK stadiums.

Exactly. It's such a shame. We have a singing section at Ashton gate. Which is were my season ticket is . But it just goes to show how sterile our football is . Watching this game tonight. Just goes to show how it's changed so much/to much 

[South Somerset Red]

It comes down to catalogue of things in this country ranging from the prices of tickets to the way its advertised as a tv show more than a community thing. As this country has sold its soul to overseas slowly the fans have deteriorated as well with the new overseas fans or fair weather supporters. Too many glory seekers in this country now only interested in watching the top teams from the telly, never seen the point personally if you never go watch them. Always said the German model in football is the best in the world (not the franchise prem), the fans come first over there. 20,000 fans koln have took to london tonight, 3,000 of those have tickets and are taking the place over with plenty of noise, makes me jealous. 

[wendyredredrobin]

Not a good night for everton though. 3 - 0 down at half time and it looks like boys versus girls.

[Red Army 75]

10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I'm not sure how we're treated badly. Not necessarily disagreeing, just cannot think of reasons. We're made to sit down, but I want to sit down. Think it might just be that some foreign clubs supporters sing a lot more than most English supporters. I think id rather stick with how things are as it feels very safe in English football stadiums, and at least we're not watching through safety netting that are in many foreign grounds. More evening games would help the atmosphere maybe. 

Exactly JD . Every fans match day is down to themselves. I like standing up . I like trying to make an atmosphere. I like the pyro . It's just my opinion.

[spudski]

It's not football perse in this country that's the problem....it's the people.

Most Country's have the same restrictions as us, if not more....as an example, try buying a ticket for the footy in Italy nowadays.

We as a population have become passive, conformist, and scared to say or do anything that doesn't conform to what we are being told by anyone in 'authority'.

The Brits make me laugh...we sit around moaning about everything, do very little about it, and ask how high to jump when told.

Most 'foreigners' laugh at us and think we are weak as a nation and population. They really can't understand how we were once a 'Great Nation'.

The other side to it is...as a nation, many argue, fight, slag one another off, moan, shout, get drunk and take drugs, abuse one another, have no family values or respect etc, etc....done on a daily basis....yet conform at the footy.

It's the other way round in other countries. Society daily, is generally pleasant and respectful....yet come match day, they let off all their anger and frustrations in the Stadium, that leads to an 'atmosphere.

We're pretty much fecked up in this country.... ;-)

 

[Red Army 75]

Well put . 

[Wanderingred]

11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

As good as the atmospheres appear to be, I hate that they are choreographed.

Yeh that does bug me too. And the fact that you always get a couple of guys at the front with their back to the game, leading the rest.. Seems a strange thing to do when you've paid to go and watch your team!

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

Most Country's have the same restrictions as us, if not more....

 

That simply is not true.

Few if any (?) countries use legislation that has no actus reus and mens rea to control and ban football fans.

Health and safety is an irrelevance in most of Europe, but in the UK it is used as  means to pacify football fans.   

 

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

That simply is not true.

Few if any (?) countries use legislation that has no actus reus and mens rea to control and ban football fans.

Health and safety is an irrelevance in most of Europe, but in the UK it is used as  means to pacify football fans.   

 

That's complete rubbish....they have just as many legislations as us. Having worked in France, Italy, Greece, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Canada, Andorra, Australia, NZ to name just a few, I'm fully aware of the restrictions, bureaucracy, red tape, H&S etc that goes on abroad...more often than not, it's more than what we have to cope with.

However...in day to day life, most of the population choose just to ignore it and use common sense.

Go to the football abroad....they have the rules and regs...like I said about purchasing tickets. However once inside the stadium, you can pretty much do what you like, as no one will stop you.

Even if they do...most of the police have no identification numbers and faces masked.

You go to the football abroad, knowing anything could happen.

Go watch an Italian game...if the Police feel like charging you, regardless of whether you were doing anything wrong, it's just tough luck. Wrong place, wrong time...sorry. That's how it is.

People moan about the heavy handedness of the WMC...it makes me chuckle....go abroad to Holland, Italy, Eastern Europe, Greece, Turkey...you'll soon experience 'heavy handedness'....and guess what....they love it. It's all part of the 'day out'.

Then they go back to work Monday...and lead respectful lives in the main, where laws are seen as a 'suggestion' and common sense prevails.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I can concur about atmospheres abroad.

Mentioned on another thread- went to Roma-Inter. Totally different- was kinda coregraphed but it was fantastic. 

Less restrictions too- you can drink in the stadia in Italy, in fact I am sure you can in most of Europe, by which I mean in the stand- being used to what I am imagine my delight when someone came round selling beer! Quite strong beer too. 

You are very correct also @spudski about the rest of your post....laws. 'Suggestion' as you say. In Italy on my recent trip and I saw it 10 years ago in another bit, people smoked...in public places. 'But but, EU law' I hear you say. They were smoking in the ground, even saw a police officer smoking at the Termini. 

Not wrong about the red tape either overseas.

[JBFC II]

Went to Augsburg v Monchengladbach a few weeks back and the atmosphere was amazing, 8k augsburg in their singing section behind the goal was a sight to behold

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I can concur about atmospheres abroad.

Mentioned on another thread- went to Roma-Inter. Totally different- was kinda coregraphed but it was fantastic. 

Less restrictions too- you can drink in the stadia in Italy, in fact I am sure you can in most of Europe, by which I mean in the stand- being used to what I am imagine my delight when someone came round selling beer! Quite strong beer too. 

You are very correct also @spudski about the rest of your post....laws. 'Suggestion' as you say. In Italy on my recent trip and I saw it 10 years ago in another bit, people smoked...in public places. But,, but EU law I hear you say. They were smoking in the ground, even saw a police officer smoking at the Termini. 

Not wrong about the red tape either overseas.

One of the landlords at one of the Ashton Gate locals still smokes in the pub. I ordered a pint of Thatchers and a cheese and onion roll a few weeks back, he served it to me whilst smoking and there was ash on my roll :laugh:....I chuckled inside...no complaints from me.

 

[Cowshed]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

That's complete rubbish....

No it is a fact.

Most law is based upon a crime being committed.

Football fans in England are regularly banned without any crime occurring via civil(not criminal courts) courts and the legislation of the criminal legislation act. Legislation that is unique in Europe.

The above is regularly abused by the Police. Bristol City fans are involved at this point in legal proceedings with the WMP. 

Football fans in England are prosecuted for what would be considered ludicrous offences by fans  in Europe and bans now start at three years, with added restrictions. In contrast in Europe fans are given freedoms fans here kissed goodbye to decades ago.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No it is a fact.

Most law is based upon a crime being committed.

Football fans in England are regularly banned without any crime occurring via civil(not criminal courts) courts and the legislation of the criminal legislation act. Legislation that is unique in Europe.

The above is regularly abused by the Police. Bristol City fans are involved at this point in legal proceedings with the WMP. 

Football fans in England are prosecuted for what would be considered ludicrous offences by fans  in Europe and bans now start at three years, with added restrictions. In contrast in Europe fans are given freedoms fans here kissed goodbye to decades ago.

You've obviously totally misunderstood what I've written.

The laws are the same in many countries....they often just choose not to implement them.

Many countries let the populous let their frustrations out at the football, rather than having it on the streets daily.

The population know that, the law knows that. They choose to let it happen.

There are cases abroad where the law has been implemented with fans, when they choose to do so. It's just not enforced so much. Common sense prevails.

You take a beating in Italy...it's part of the 'agreement'. They hate the Police...but they very rarely take them through legal proceedings, as they know the authorities allow them to do pretty much what they like in the ground.

Having stood in the Curva Nord with Lazio regularly...I've seen drink, drugs, stabbings, prostitution, racism, muggings, protests, all forms of low life....the Police allow it, but it is still against the law. It's confined to 90 mins in a 'controlled' environment.

Take it out on the streets and they come down on you like a ton of bricks.

Big difference.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Funny you should mention drugs spudski,

I distinctly noticed at said Roma game, my mate did anyway- a definite smell of weed. Sure you mean harder stuff in the main but definitely could smell weed in the Distinti Sud.

Also read your smoking example with interest. If clientele don't mind said law breach, about any within reason really and it causes no real issue why worry I say.

[Cowshed]

48 minutes ago, spudski said:

ou've obviously totally misunderstood what I've written.

The laws are the same in many countries....they often just choose not to implement them.

 

And law in Britain with its unique criminal justice and football disorder act are not. This gives Police in the UK powers that other European Police forces do not have. Some of these powers specifically for football fans have existed for thirty years.

Football fans here not only have been subjected to laws that do not exist elsewhere they have been subjected to intensive policing by police forces who implement, and at times misuse powers for longer.

If other nations fans were subjected to similar for thirty years they also would be pacified and supports gentrified.

[Northern Red]

It's their first time in Europe for 25 years, so I suspect there'll be a few of them making the trip over for the return, ala Cologne....

[spudski]

55 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Funny you should mention drugs spudski,

I distinctly noticed at said Roma game, my mate did anyway- a definite smell of weed. Sure you mean harder stuff in the main but definitely could smell weed in the Distinti Sud.

Also read your smoking example with interest. If clientele don't mind said law breach, about any within reason really and it causes no real issue why worry I say.

I remember standing in the Genoa end v Sampdoria.

Me and the ex missus went to a local football bar near the ground. I ordered a pint of lager and the missus a wine. I got a pint of lager....she got a pint of white wine :laugh: as that's what they thought British woman drank haha....

We ended up pissed up before the game...not intentionally...it seemed like the whole Genoa end were smoking weed. We came out stoned and pissed :laugh:

I was in Croatia last week. Went to watch Dinamo Zagreb play with the lad I was renting an apartment from. Match was awful with hardly anyone there...he told me lots of 'deals' get done at the footy there.

[Trueredsupporter]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

What restrictions are there?

Plenty. The games been subjected to social engineering. Crowds have totally changed in make up. Fans behave entirely differently. Just look at Arsenal tonight. Arsenal was not always like that.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I remember standing in the Genoa end v Sampdoria.

Me and the ex missus went to a local football bar near the ground. I ordered a pint of lager and the missus a wine. I got a pint of lager....she got a pint of white wine as that's what they thought British woman drank haha....

We ended up pissed up before the game...not intentionally...it seemed like the whole Genoa end were smoking weed. We came out stoned and pissed

I was in Croatia last week. Went to watch Dinamo Zagreb play with the lad I was renting an apartment from. Match was awful with hardly anyone there...he told me lots of 'deals' get done at the footy there.

White wine pre game eh?? Very posh. 

Genoa-Sampdoria eh? Mate who lived out there a while ago recommended Luigi Ferraris as it's an English type design, says usually pretty good atmosphere, pretty good experience. He's been to a few, pretty sure he went to the Genoa-Samp derby, in Genoa end a few times.

Deals at the football can absolutely believe that in countries like Croatia...By the way Dinamo Zagreb must have been different! A notch up from Italy even for the craziness wise? Shame about tiny attendance. Genoa end smoking weed eh?? Doesn't surprise :laugh:, like I said Distiniti. Course, I have- and I suppose most people have- a mate who shall we say is too regulation friendly. So anyway, had he been with me on this holiday to Rome, Distinti Sud, this chap good in many ways but seemed a bit overly keen on fire hazard identification. I could imagine him- god help us- ha, going round to chaps in Distinti Sud at aforementioned Roma-Inter pointing out they are breaching EU law...can't imagine that would have gone down well!

@Cowshed I do agree in some ways about this. About your points, absolutely I do- the regulations are fairly absurd tbh. One prime example, not even allowed to drink in view of the pitch here?? Come on! That's before we even get onto the draconian stuff.

@South Somerset Red What do you mean by overseas fans? Do you mean tourists or games geared towards the TV market? Or both. I can tell you that I was technically a tourist myself at game I went to in Serie A but didn't detract from the atmosphere so...depends on the individual really. I am sceptical that the ones at UK games add much however. I fully agree about the rest of your post though, glory seekers...Man U fans and Bristol seems to have a lot of Arsenal fans in particular.

How the game has changed- I started watching in late 1998 and I accept the big change will have come between say late 80s and late 90s but even since last 19 years it has got increasingly gentrified I feel. Last 10 in particular, definitely at an accelerated rate. Don't just mean the matchday either but the emphasis- necessary evil, not saying it isn't, but the emphasis on non matchday revenue, corporate events, and on the matchday higher prices, maximising every penny, corporate fans...it's not a happy thought. God know what it'll be like in another 10, 20 years?? 

[pillred]

7 hours ago, JonDolman said:

What restrictions are there?

mostly cant stand up, cant drink in your seat, and no pyrotechnics, apart from that nothing.

[Hellfire Corner]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

One of the landlords at one of the Ashton Gate locals still smokes in the pub. I ordered a pint of Thatchers and a cheese and onion roll a few weeks back, he served it to me whilst smoking and there was ash on my roll :laugh:....I chuckled inside...no complaints from me.

 

- onion and ash!! Two of your five a day!!!

[054123]

12 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

As good as the atmospheres appear to be, I hate that they are choreographed.

As opposed to?

[Sixtyseconds]

12 hours ago, spudski said:

That's complete rubbish....they have just as many legislations as us. Having worked in France, Italy, Greece, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Canada, Andorra, Australia, NZ to name just a few, I'm fully aware of the restrictions, bureaucracy, red tape, H&S etc that goes on abroad...more often than not, it's more than what we have to cope with.

However...in day to day life, most of the population choose just to ignore it and use common sense.

Go to the football abroad....they have the rules and regs...like I said about purchasing tickets. However once inside the stadium, you can pretty much do what you like, as no one will stop you.

Even if they do...most of the police have no identification numbers and faces masked.

You go to the football abroad, knowing anything could happen.

Go watch an Italian game...if the Police feel like charging you, regardless of whether you were doing anything wrong, it's just tough luck. Wrong place, wrong time...sorry. That's how it is.

People moan about the heavy handedness of the WMC...it makes me chuckle....go abroad to Holland, Italy, Eastern Europe, Greece, Turkey...you'll soon experience 'heavy handedness'....and guess what....they love it. It's all part of the 'day out'.

Then they go back to work Monday...and lead respectful lives in the main, where laws are seen as a 'suggestion' and common sense prevails.

Lordy there's a post to make one chuckle.

How did it get likes this Squire?

Go abroad to Holland, Italy, Eastern Europe ... I did and never took part in the looting and pillage but watched English youth soft in your book leg foreigner toughs and their police forces like an ungovernable force.

That Bobbobsuperbob may have been there too but guns did not stop English kiddies in Sardinia. The Eetalia carbs ran away where the WMP did not. 

Music.

Youth Culture.

Good and bad

Loved and imitated by Johnny Foreigner.

What happened?

It was not always like this.

Not at ALL.

[Robbored]

14 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Granted hardly any. But how fans are treated suppress the atmosphere. 

Do you think that in part the lack of atmosphere is due to the design of some modern stadiums?

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Lordy there's a post to make one chuckle.

How did it get likes this Squire?

Go abroad to Holland, Italy, Eastern Europe ... I did and never took part in the looting and pillage but watched English youth soft in your book leg foreigner toughs and their police forces like an ungovernable force.

That Bobbobsuperbob may have been there too but guns did not stop English kiddies in Sardinia. The Eetalia carbs ran away where the WMP did not. 

Music.

Youth Culture.

Good and bad

Loved and imitated by Johnny Foreigner.

What happened?

It was not always like this.

Not at ALL.

I think it's completely different when the English national team or club teams arrive....I was talking about general week to week league football in other countries.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Do you think that in part the lack of atmosphere is due to the design of some modern stadiums?

I think the design and acoustics of a pure bowl for example doesn't help. Some modern designs are decent though, both different to a bowl and hold atmosphere in quite well. Redeveloped or a new one built like an English ground.

Italia 90? Saw this vid after a quick google search England fans Italia 1990. Gonna watch it (before my time certainly;y), see what I make of it.

 

[Sixtyseconds]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think it's completely different when the English national team or club teams arrive....I was talking about general week to week league football in other countries.

So few words for somebody who uses often many (interestingly).

Think why it has got like this here.

And why it is like that there.

Ingerlund was admired .... Once.

Italian Ultras admired the Kop.

Where did it all go?

Kids did not wake up one morning and boom they genetically changed into the sheeple you think the populace are. 

Summat happened.

 

[spudski]

For anyone rubbishing what I've said about restrictions being in place abroad just like here, if not more, may I suggest you read this to get a flavour...this just being Italy.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9080-the-difficulties-of-buying-a-ticket-in-italy

http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/football/hooligan-laws-working

And if you have time....this is a very good article on how deep football and criminal activity run deep in Italian football, as it does in many other countries abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/nside-talys-ultras-the-dangerous-fans-who-control-the-game

 

[RUSSEL85]

Found this, thought it was amusing.

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

For anyone rubbishing what I've said about restrictions being in place abroad just like here, if not more, may I suggest you read this to get a flavour...this just being Italy.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9080-the-difficulties-of-buying-a-ticket-in-italy

http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/football/hooligan-laws-working

And if you have time....this is a very good article on how deep football and criminal activity run deep in Italian football, as it does in many other countries abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/nside-talys-ultras-the-dangerous-fans-who-control-the-game

 

While i agree on restrictions being in place overseas too, I would say three key differences:

1) Have been in place for less time. Makes a difference. E.g. as I said in a past post, think it's definitely accelerated here the changing trend in the last 10 years especially. Definitely different to late 90s.

2) Stewards are still markedly more prone to turning a blind eye there. Admittedly only one game which is a tiny sample size, so I can't get a full picture either way.

3) Can only speak for Italy- and this doesn't just apply to football, but though it's more bureaucratic I would say it's less hi-tech surveillance, less sophisticated law based, it's lower tech. Yes it's more apparent- take troops at public monuments for example, but it's definitely lower level if more bureaucratic.

So I agree with you to a point.

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While i agree on restrictions being in place overseas too, I would say three key differences:

1) Have been in place for less time. Makes a difference. E.g. as I said in a past post, think it's definitely accelerated here the changing trend in the last 10 years especially. Definitely different to late 90s.

2) Stewards are still markedly more prone to turning a blind eye there. Admittedly only one game which is a tiny sample size, so I can't get a full picture either way.

3) Can only speak for Italy- and this doesn't just apply to football, but though it's more bureaucratic I would say it's less hi-tech surveillance, less sophisticated law based, it's lower tech. Yes it's more apparent- take troops at public monuments for example, but it's definitely lower level if more bureaucratic.

So I agree with you to a point.

Yes mate...as I said in previous posts...they have restrictions like us, it's whether they choose to implement them or not, that's the difference.

It's generally a free for all in certain parts of the stadia.

On some days though, they will have a purge and go over board.

The new regs installed have definitely had an influence on how many season tickets are sold.

[Red Army 75]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think the design and acoustics of a pure bowl for example doesn't help. Some modern designs are decent though, both different to a bowl and hold atmosphere in quite well. Redeveloped or a new one built like an English ground.

Italia 90? Saw this vid after a quick google search England fans Italia 1990. Gonna watch it (before my time certainly;y), see what I make of it.

 

Absolutely loved that World Cup . Bobby Robson , Gazza , David platts volley , Toto  schillaci , nessun dorma . Fantastic. Can't believe it was 27 years ago .

[pillred]

5 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Fair enough. I like to sit down, I don't drink, and not into pyro. But everyone's different. 

fair enough, but all of the things I said such as being able to stand (in certain areas) pyro etc would probably add a bit to the overall match day atmosphere, the drinking bit well that was for my benefit :laugh.

[SyntaxtheRed]

Only key differences between football here and abroad I see, is that you drink in the stands and that the tickets are cheaper (Germany). The atmosphere (no doubt helped by the drink and cheap tickets) is lead by key groups of fans who take in their drums and sing and chant the whole game. - They don't watch a lot of the football from what I could tell - maybe that's the difference.  

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think the design and acoustics of a pure bowl for example doesn't help. Some modern designs are decent though, both different to a bowl and hold atmosphere in quite well. Redeveloped or a new one built like an English ground.

Italia 90? Saw this vid after a quick google search England fans Italia 1990. Gonna watch it (before my time certainly;y), see what I make of it.

 

I was on that march .

The one and only time I wore union jack shorts was on that trip. Shameful look.

 

 

 

[Trueredsupporter]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

For anyone rubbishing what I've said about restrictions being in place abroad just like here, if not more, may I suggest you read this to get a flavour...this just being Italy.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9080-the-difficulties-of-buying-a-ticket-in-italy

http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/football/hooligan-laws-working

And if you have time....this is a very good article on how deep football and criminal activity run deep in Italian football, as it does in many other countries abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/nside-talys-ultras-the-dangerous-fans-who-control-the-game

 

What are people missing? You get a ban if convicted. In England no conviction is needed. Been over there and when it kicks off the OB are bloody useless in comparison to England and its control and hi level surveillance .

[NOTBLUE]

22 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not football perse in this country that's the problem....it's the people.

Most Country's have the same restrictions as us, if not more....as an example, try buying a ticket for the footy in Italy nowadays.

We as a population have become passive, conformist, and scared to say or do anything that doesn't conform to what we are being told by anyone in 'authority'.

The Brits make me laugh...we sit around moaning about everything, do very little about it, and ask how high to jump when told.

Most 'foreigners' laugh at us and think we are weak as a nation and population. They really can't understand how we were once a 'Great Nation'.

The other side to it is...as a nation, many argue, fight, slag one another off, moan, shout, get drunk and take drugs, abuse one another, have no family values or respect etc, etc....done on a daily basis....yet conform at the footy.

It's the other way round in other countries. Society daily, is generally pleasant and respectful....yet come match day, they let off all their anger and frustrations in the Stadium, that leads to an 'atmosphere.

We're pretty much fecked up in this country.... ;-)

 

I call the people of this country, The Shoulder Shruggers,the people have become so boring it's unreal.

[22A]

Many restrictions in this country are attributed to H&S, but it's simply that people in authority are scared of some No win - no fee lawyer bringing a case against them.

Slipped on a stair in a stadium, or has your son hurt his hand playing conkers? No trouble we'll sue the stadium or school as the case may be.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I think we have what the authorities and corporate people that have taken Football over wanted.

A glossy, safe, marketable brand.

There's no surprise the atmosphere at games is so passive given it has become a luxury largely only afforded by the comfortable middle aged.

Right down to allocated seating the industry has become a consumer product, not a participatory event.

These other European and South American countries have not generally had their football flogged on the global market.  That makes us incomparable to most of them.  

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Do you think that in part the lack of atmosphere is due to the design of some modern stadiums?

Too many bloody seats.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

21 hours ago, Cowshed said:

And law in Britain with its unique criminal justice and football disorder act are not. This gives Police in the UK powers that other European Police forces do not have. Some of these powers specifically for football fans have existed for thirty years.

Football fans here not only have been subjected to laws that do not exist elsewhere they have been subjected to intensive policing by police forces who implement, and at times misuse powers for longer.

If other nations fans were subjected to similar for thirty years they also would be pacified and supports gentrified.

I can only talk about such laws in France, basically if a situation occurs during a game the gendarmery can contact a regional consul for guidance and he can order a plan of action.

Several years ago I believe that Auxerre who were already relegated played Montpelier who needed a win to secure the championship and rioting Auxerre fans at one end of the ground totalling up 10,000 were ordered to be ejected before the game was allowed to carry on, this happened when huge reinforcements were called in and the teams were off of the pitch, this obviously took quite some time but the order was a) the game will be finished and b) the stand will be emptied and C) I don't care how long it takes.

Basically in France football does not require separate laws but special provisions can be enact by a regional consul.

[EnclosureSurge]

Worth watching the goals here (skip the first 45s or so) just for the commentator's "Mama, che gol!" after the second one flies in. (plus his comment after the third goes in: "Everton - in ginocchio!" Everton on their knees!) Bearing in mind this game wasn't played in Bergamo, Atalanta's home, but in Emilia Romana, miles away, the nerrazzuri fans do a good job. I have a Toffee-blue-nosed mate I play 5-a-side with who went: I'll ask him on Monday about the atmos.

re Italian games, I've been in the Samp end for a game. Excellent atmos. Plenty of standing and surging, so many flags the game is almost invisible (they were crap at the time so it mattered not). Been to see Verona, too, Curva Sud. Noisy, jumpy, lots of songs to English tunes (incl "You're going home in a f****** ambulance" - I couldn't work out the words, something about Chievo and the Flying Donkeys). Stood behind the goal when Milan won lo scudetto in 2004 when Shevchenko scored the winning goal to clinch the title against Totti's Roma. But the best was Napoli, in Serie C, play-off against Sambenedettese (exactly). 80,000, had to get there three hours before k-o just to get in. Bit like being down the Mem. Love a bit of Italian tifosi, even now the football is inferior to the 80s/90s when it was proper good.