Dont blame the fans

[Marlborough Red]

Reading lots of posts claiming poor support from our fans yesterday-not getting behind the team / booing off Kent and Wright etc,etc.

Like well over 20,000 City fans yesterday I drove to the games hoping my team would put on a show  to make us forget about recent performances especially the shambles at Barnsley (which I had the misfortune to witness in person) This is a once in a generation chance to get into the premiership and the Brentford game at home was a perfect opportunity to move up the table before a  tough match  at Millwall. The fans were up for it and all seemed set for the team to give everything to get the win we needed.

First shock was the Team selection by LJ . Nobody expected LJ to pick that team and this has been covered extensively in other OTIB topics. We looked confused and didn't seem to know how to play together. Brentford dominated possession and took complete control of the game. we couldn't put two passes together and offered no attacking threat at all.We didn't press Brentford at all, allowed them to play from the back up to our penalty area seemingly without any effort to make a challenge. The crowd ,rightly, were frustrated by what they were seeing ,especially from Kent and passionately made their feelings known with every misplaced pass .  Still several times the COYR chant was sung with gusto  ,occasionally started by the Dolman.Half time came with only 1 goal attempt (off target ) from City but 8 from Brentford . This in a must win game  for City!

 

Changes would be made at half time for sure ----oh no --same 11 came out , not surprisingly nothing changed .In fact it got worse as Brentford took complete control. The fans were passionately trying to raise the noise level every time we got on the ball but again and again we gave it away or passed directly out of play. In my recollection (58 years)it was the worst I'm have ever seen City play at home . No guts , no drive, no ambition and little skill.  No attempts on goal  by City in the second half -unbelievable and totally unacceptable.The crowd had every right to make their feelings known ,both by the substitutions and at the end of play.

 The team and manager had let the fans down , trampled over our hopes and expectations (since Xmas)  and thrown away  lost the best chance of promotion for a decade,. Hardly surprising fans let them know how we felt, the passion in the stadium was there for the team to exploit but the complete  lack of desire to put in a shift in such a vital game was a kick in the teeth for the bumper crowd who expected 100% effort no less.

The passion had changed to Anger and I have never seen so many fans upset and emotionally distraught during and after the game. It meant so much to us ,but appeared not to matter one jot to the players on the field. Don't blame the fans!

[Red-Robbo]

100% correct.  I was almost tempted to start that great and oft-heard classic 70s terrace chant "what a load of rubbish" at one point.

[CyderInACan]

24 minutes ago, Marlborough Red said:

The passion had changed to Anger and I have never seen so many fans upset and emotionally distraught during and after the game. It meant so much to us ,but appeared not to matter one jot to the players on the field. Don't blame the fans!

I agree we were rubbish but I think that is a bit OTT. It is only a game after all. For what it's worth we were woeful and Junior Kent fully deserves the brickbats along with Walsh, Wright et al. The crowd were right to boo the players off. In a game crying out for experienced heads to start Kent & Walsh was rank amateur behaviour. 

[cidered abroad]

AndLJ has the cheek to say this.

"I know everybody was frustrated on Monday but it is not ideal when you're jeering some players who have worked their socks off.

"I have endured it myself so I know how it feels but we're in an excellent position in the league and we need full support for the remaining games.

15 points out of the last 48. Slight improvement on last season's 11 points out of 66, but that was absolutely one of the worst City home performances in my life. We've actually performed better in some heavy defeats than a 1-0 in this one. Brentford just needed a good striker and it could have been worse than our worst home defeat stat of 1-6.

[ChippenhamRed]

Have to say having walked past the 18-plate cars parked outside the stadium yesterday (because heaven forbid a footballer should drive a car more than a year old), having spent £30 even with a members discount, to watch the worst performance I can remember, from unremarkable second-tier footballers earning more in a week than some earn in a year, on a bank holiday when I could otherwise have spent the day with my young family....I'm not inclined to be sympathic towards the players or management when it comes to the reaction of the crowd. 

If you're going to earn more than a heart surgeon for kicking a ball around while far less wealthy people pay to watch, then that comes with expectations of a certain level of performance - both at a team and individual level.  I'm not suggesting the booing of individuals was necessarily helpful, but I find it hard to condemn given just how shocking yesterday was.

[Numero Uno]

When the sub came on both my son and I said “this is the guy that hits the winner”. Amazed it took Brentford so long to bring on a guy who could actually finish albeit a deflection. I have never seen a Bristol City team get so bummed at home. We looked like a plucky non league outfit fighting against the tide!!

[reddoc]

20 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Have to say having walked past the 18-plate cars parked outside the stadium yesterday (because heaven forbid a footballer should drive a car more than a year old), having spent £30 even with a members discount, to watch the worst performance I can remember, from unremarkable second-tier footballers earning more in a week than some earn in a year, on a bank holiday when I could otherwise have spent the day with my young family....I'm not inclined to be sympathic towards the players or management when it comes to the reaction of the crowd. 

If you're going to earn more than a heart surgeon for kicking a ball around while far less wealthy people pay to watch, then that comes with expectations of a certain level of performance - both at a team and individual level.  I'm not suggesting the booing of individuals was necessarily helpful, but I find it hard to condemn given just how shocking yesterday was.

In my experience Heart Surgeons are Southern Premier capable at best. Not surprised they'd earn less for kicking a ball around. Knew an extremely talented clinical Geneticist once, but he never made it. Wrong DNA I guess.

[Ivorguy]

There is clearly something decidedly wrong at City for such a collapse not only in form but in effort

Guess we will have to wait for an answer until one of our players has retired and speaks out before we get to know what has been going on 

 

[Murraysrightplum]

Once in a generation chance that we also had about a decade ago?

once in a Jeremy Kyle generation then

[spudski]

There definitely seems to be an air of discontent down the Gate at the moment.

And imo, it's a mixture of things creating it.

Many are disappointed by how we've been playing of late, the results and performances, and feel frustrated.

Add that to the Membership debacle and it's timing...and you've got a despondent fan base.

That then translates to the atmosphere at the ground.

It's funny how the brain works...when it feels this way, you become lethargic in your passion.

Even with the great season we've had, it's hard to muster up enthusiasm at the moment.

We should in theory be creating a bigger atmosphere than the Manchester games, as the points needed are more important than those games and the carrot is still within reach....yet despite that the enthusiasm has waned and it seems fans are despondent.

In fact LJ had a dig of sorts when he said the next game at Millwall would be easier as the travelling fans are positively vocal and supportive.

It's a shame...we still sit 7th.

And it has been a joy to watch this season for most part, however it already feels like the season is over and there is nothing to play for...go figure.

Imagine in years to come if we have been bobbing about in mid table obscurity like Ipswich and others.

 

['Orns]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Have to say having walked past the 18-plate cars parked outside the stadium yesterday (because heaven forbid a footballer should drive a car more than a year old), having spent £30 even with a members discount, to watch the worst performance I can remember, from unremarkable second-tier footballers earning more in a week than some earn in a year, on a bank holiday when I could otherwise have spent the day with my young family....I'm not inclined to be sympathic towards the players or management when it comes to the reaction of the crowd. 

If you're going to earn more than a heart surgeon for kicking a ball around while far less wealthy people pay to watch, then that comes with expectations of a certain level of performance - both at a team and individual level.  I'm not suggesting the booing of individuals was necessarily helpful, but I find it hard to condemn given just how shocking yesterday was.

Took two of my girls down, one for the first time

How do you explain to a 5 year old just how bad that was? She announced on the way home that she isn't coming again, mainly due to the issues getting out of the car park rather than the performance or result, which I find heartening. I was trying to find a similar performance in 30 years of support, but failed. It was so completely inept from start to finish. I told my 12 year old literally 90 seconds in that we would lose. One of those days you can feel it in the stadium

The word I used was 'lethargic'. Nearly 24 hours on I still can't find a better word to describe it

In a way, I'm glad it's Millwall away next. They are flying, if a game like that doesn't focus the mind then nothing will. Saturday will tell us a lot about this group of players, and management. I honestly expected another relegation battle this season, so to be where we are is amazing. It feels like the first season up with GJ at the helm where we massively overachieved and paid the price for it for the next couple of seasons, where all of a sudden 2 x 10th place finishes weren't good enough. That is about our level, maybe even above it. If any City fan was offered a top 10 finish in August we'd all have grabbed it. Now it will feel like a crushing disappointment if we finish 7th, which it will be, ultimately. But this squad would get ripped apart in the PL, we need another two or three years of evolution before we can think about going up and making a fist of it

Big 5 or 6 weeks coming up, maybe 7 or 8 

[Dead Red]

Strange team selection - Ryan Kent was really poor when he came on at Barnsley and I thought he'd struggle to even make the squad yesterday. Marlon Pack holds the midfield together and is always available to receive the ball. Aden Flint and Nathan Baker are one of the best centre back pairings in the Championship. No wonder Brentford were up for it when they saw our line up!

Amazingly, we are still seventh and in with a chance of the play offs. Fans will continue to get behind the team and, hopefully, the players will respond!

I was full of optimism for next season, even if we didn't achieve promotion this season. Now, I'm not so sure and feel we could have a season of struggle ahead, whichever division we are in!

[AppyDAZE]

People say don't blame the fans and that is definitely a valid point from the start of the second half onwards.

But there is no excuse, in my book for idiots 5 minutes in shouting and screaming like spoilt little kids

****  ing Kent  this **** that. +++k  off you *** t   Before he's even recieved the ball. Pathetic.

And every time we got into their half, early on in the game you could feel the tension in the crowd and i am absolutely certain that that made things a hell of a lot worse for everyone on the pitch.

Yes they were as bad as i can rememeber, but I DO blame a section of the crowd.

In you were of of those acting the knob early in the game..  I'm sorry to say you were every bit as bad as RK or BR.

 

 

[tinman85]

5 hours ago, Marlborough Red said:

Reading lots of posts claiming poor support from our fans yesterday-not getting behind the team / booing off Kent and Wright etc,etc.

Like well over 20,000 City fans yesterday I drove to the games hoping my team would put on a show  to make us forget about recent performances especially the shambles at Barnsley (which I had the misfortune to witness in person) This is a once in a generation chance to get into the premiership and the Brentford game at home was a perfect opportunity to move up the table before a  tough match  at Millwall. The fans were up for it and all seemed set for the team to give everything to get the win we needed.

First shock was the Team selection by LJ . Nobody expected LJ to pick that team and this has been covered extensively in other OTIB topics. We looked confused and didn't seem to know how to play together. Brentford dominated possession and took complete control of the game. we couldn't put two passes together and offered no attacking threat at all.We didn't press Brentford at all, allowed them to play from the back up to our penalty area seemingly without any effort to make a challenge. The crowd ,rightly, were frustrated by what they were seeing ,especially from Kent and passionately made their feelings known with every misplaced pass .  Still several times the COYR chant was sung with gusto  ,occasionally started by the Dolman.Half time came with only 1 goal attempt (off target ) from City but 8 from Brentford . This in a must win game  for City!

 

Changes would be made at half time for sure ----oh no --same 11 came out , not surprisingly nothing changed .In fact it got worse as Brentford took complete control. The fans were passionately trying to raise the noise level every time we got on the ball but again and again we gave it away or passed directly out of play. In my recollection (58 years)it was the worst I'm have ever seen City play at home . No guts , no drive, no ambition and little skill.  No attempts on goal  by City in the second half -unbelievable and totally unacceptable.The crowd had every right to make their feelings known ,both by the substitutions and at the end of play.

 The team and manager had let the fans down , trampled over our hopes and expectations (since Xmas)  and thrown away  lost the best chance of promotion for a decade,. Hardly surprising fans let them know how we felt, the passion in the stadium was there for the team to exploit but the complete  lack of desire to put in a shift in such a vital game was a kick in the teeth for the bumper crowd who expected 100% effort no less.

The passion had changed to Anger and I have never seen so many fans upset and emotionally distraught during and after the game. It meant so much to us ,but appeared not to matter one jot to the players on the field. Don't blame the fans!

Kent and Wright deserved to be jeered. They were both poor. Wright has been error strewn for weeks. Not good enough at centre back. Having said that Pisano doesn't thrill me either. I'd start Wright a right back for Millwall. 

[Dullmoan Tone]

The most bizarre thing on reflection is that the team that did so well before Christmas is still mostly available but not selected.

I noted LJ said many were only 85% fit so perhaps that's the reason but if so, surely he must take the blame for selection. I've always felt a team is only as good as it's weakest player.

I suppose you could argue Fam's goals make us stronger - he has a better goal / game ratio than I ever expected for his first Championship season, but when you see the type of goals he scores they are so different to the ones we were scoring in the first half of the season, which were often the result of clever, clinical passes rather than hoof it up for the hopeful knock-on. How many headers did he actually win yesterday?

I know we miss O'Dowda but if my memory serves me correctly, he only had a few stand out perfromances before Crystal Palace. 

I think we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and changed our style of play just to accommodate a few individuals.

[Olé]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

however it already feels like the season is over and there is nothing to play for...go figure

You don't need to look far for a reason - LJ said post-match "if it doesn't happen we'll go again next season".

I understand he is trying desperately to take the pressure off his players but it's an extremely odd sentiment.

I can't imagine any other club in our position commenting in those terms so clearly about such an outcome.

Mind games like "we're not favourites to make the play offs" are one thing because they unsettle other clubs.

But his comment has no value other than to imply a passive role, detaching the team from their final position. 

Yet as someone pointed out yesterday, with the game against Middlesbrough, everything is still in our hands.

 

I don't actually feel like players have been under any real pressure - we're ahead of plan, with a lot of goodwill.

Despite what a few posts on here would tell you, there hasn't been a single "must win" six pointer this season. 

The life or death fixtures were in the cup and we did quite well in them. Perhaps lack of pressure is the issue!

[wendyredredrobin]

All we need to do is play the same team and same formation that played against Manchester United. simples.

[Dullmoan Tone]

2 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

All we need to do is play the same team and same formation that played against Manchester United. simples.

I think you have cracked this management malarkey - make sure you email LJ asap.

[BobBobSuperBob]

12 minutes ago, Olé said:

You don't need too look far for a reason - LJ said post-match "if it doesn't happen we'll go again next season".

I understand he is trying desperately to take the pressure off his players but it's an extremely odd sentiment.

I can't imagine any other club in our position commenting in those terms so clearly about such an outcome.

Mind games like "we're not favourites to make the play offs" are one thing because they unsettle other clubs.

But his comment has no value other than to imply a passive role, detaching the team from their final position. 

Yet as someone pointed out yesterday, with the game against Middlesbrough, everything is still in our hands.

 

I don't actually feel like players have been under any real pressure - we're ahead of plan, with a lot of goodwill.

Despite what a few posts on here would tell you, there hasn't been a single "must win" six pointer this season. 

The life or death fixtures were in the cup and we did quite well in them. Perhaps lack of pressure is the issue!

Compare to Neil Harris who repeatedly says when questioned in recent weeks

‘We’re loving it’

And the repeated question ‘Are you aiming / eyeing the play offs’

Harris repeatedly ‘Of course we are’

 

[Davefevs]

As @Woodsy says, if the players can’t get up for Millwall away then we are, as @Numero Uno says, gonna get bummed!!

Need to play eleven players ready to go through the pain of being knackered on Saturday.  The training should be focussed on getting the players as fresh as possible both physically and mentally.

[Frenchay Red]

It is incredibly naive or just plain stupid to adopt the view that we're not really ready for promotion at the moment, but never mind perhaps next year. What on earth does LJ/MA think the other 23 clubs will be aiming for each season.

Really appear to be throwing away an amazing opportunity.

Never ever too early, it's all about how you manage it if you get there. 

[Bazooka Joe]

When the manager and players are clearly culpable, trying to divert blame to the fans is dangerous and unwise.

How to lose friends and alienate people.

[CotswoldRed]

5 hours ago, Woodsy said:

Took two of my girls down, one for the first time

How do you explain to a 5 year old just how bad that was? She announced on the way home that she isn't coming again, mainly due to the issues getting out of the car park rather than the performance or result, which I find heartening. I was trying to find a similar performance in 30 years of support, but failed. It was so completely inept from start to finish. I told my 12 year old literally 90 seconds in that we would lose. One of those days you can feel it in the stadium

The word I used was 'lethargic'. Nearly 24 hours on I still can't find a better word to describe it

In a way, I'm glad it's Millwall away next. They are flying, if a game like that doesn't focus the mind then nothing will. Saturday will tell us a lot about this group of players, and management. I honestly expected another relegation battle this season, so to be where we are is amazing. It feels like the first season up with GJ at the helm where we massively overachieved and paid the price for it for the next couple of seasons, where all of a sudden 2 x 10th place finishes weren't good enough. That is about our level, maybe even above it. If any City fan was offered a top 10 finish in August we'd all have grabbed it. Now it will feel like a crushing disappointment if we finish 7th, which it will be, ultimately. But this squad would get ripped apart in the PL, we need another two or three years of evolution before we can think about going up and making a fist of it

Big 5 or 6 weeks coming up, maybe 7 or 8 

The Premier League would be all about the cash and parachute payments. Staying up wouldn't be a necessity first time around. 

[City Cat]

1 hour ago, Frenchay Red said:

It is incredibly naive or just plain stupid to adopt the view that we're not really ready for promotion at the moment, but never mind perhaps next year. What on earth does LJ/MA think the other 23 clubs will be aiming for each season.

Really appear to be throwing away an amazing opportunity.

Never ever too early, it's all about how you manage it if you get there. 

Agree, but don't forget we are owned by a bean counter who's company advises people on a daily basis not to run before they walk (financially) Problem is, football isn't like that, it's high risk and speculative. You're right... let's get there and deal with it..... like Huddersfield

[Wrongagain]

Don’t think you have to look back too far to remember the last dip in form, that was not due to the fans but to management - an inexperienced manager struggling to to perform and experienced players fed up with ineptitude.  

Starting a match against a good footballing side with stupid player choices in midfield and defence did not go unnoticed by the fans - publication of the team sheet changed the mood of every fan that saw it on way to the match!

That being the case, what did it do to the confidence of the players, knowing at least 3 of the starting 11 should not have been there and better players were not even making the bench!

So don’t blame the fans, feel sorry for the players that started KNOWING they were not good enough and for their team that knew they could not perform to their best as a whole!

The problem is not with anyone wearing red or purple and lime - not unless Saville Row have started producing some very brightly coloured suits!

[Spoons]

3 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Kent and Wright deserved to be jeered. They were both poor. Wright has been error strewn for weeks. Not good enough at centre back. Having said that Pisano doesn't thrill me either. I'd start Wright a right back for Millwall. 

Truly clueless. You say Wright deserved to be jeered and been error strewn for weeks...then go on to say you would start him at right back on Saturday?

[RedRobin13]

Can honestly say I felt utterly embarrassed at the game yesterday .

How on earth people think jeering off the club captain when the score is 0-0 is ever going to have a positive impact on the team is beyond me. 

The way the fans react to negative spells must make Ashton Gate a joy to play at for visiting teams. 

Of course, the performance was utterly woeful but when you see the negativity banded around on here and other social media sites before the game has even kicked off is it really that surprising that this seeps onto the pitch.

If the atmosphere carries on like this I don’t think it matters what LJ does, we have no chance of reaching the play offs!

P.S Have been a critic of some Section 82 activity in the past but they were an absolute credit to the club and I just wish more of the crowd could follow their lead

 

 

[ZiderEyed]

10 minutes ago, RedRobin13 said:

Can honestly say I felt utterly embarrassed at the game yesterday .

How on earth people think jeering off the club captain when the score is 0-0 is ever going to have a positive impact on the team is beyond me. 

The way the fans react to negative spells must make Ashton Gate a joy to play at for visiting teams. 

Of course, the performance was utterly woeful but when you see the negativity banded around on here and other social media sites before the game has even kicked off is it really that surprising that this seeps onto the pitch.

If the atmosphere carries on like this I don’t think it matters what LJ does, we have no chance of reaching the play offs!

P.S Have been a critic of some Section 82 activity in the past but they were an absolute credit to the club and I just wish more of the crowd could follow their lead

Read the thread title mate.

[RedRobin13]

1 minute ago, ZiderEyed said:

Read the thread title mate.

I have, still no nearer to understanding your point?

[ZiderEyed]

These are young, healthy, extremely rich young men who have failed to do their jobs. What do they ******* well expect?!? Love, hugs and 'oh didnt you do well'? I didn't go, but I have absolutely zero sympathy for any of them if they were booed. If BS want BCFC to be run like a business, surely they should recognise that if customers are dissatisfied with the product on offer, then they're more than entitled to complain about it.

And what sort of message does LJ saying 'this team needs to be loved' send out to out playoff 'rivals'? That to me is saying that we're soft and anyone who gets in our face will see us fold like a shit hand in poker.