Monkeh Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 minute ago, phantom said: Another view of Burton when was that built? remeber ours was finished in 2016 so we have to comply with the regulations that are current Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 Funny how seating or shelves aren't allowed but a wooden bar between the Lansdown and the SS is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Drew Peacock said: Because he wanted a beer? Lack of seating is the reason I don't drink in the concourse. that and no real place to put your glass down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Up The City! said: Funny how seating or shelves aren't allowed but a wooden bar between the Lansdown and the SS is allowed. the sports bar?, it's not a concourse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Monkeh said: the sports bar?, it's not a concourse No in the actual concourse in the bit by the disabled section. A stand alone wooden bar has appeared. Very handy for resting a pint on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, Up The City! said: No in the actual concourse in the bit by the disabled section. A stand alone wooden bar has appeared. Very handy for resting a pint on. Don’t tell everyone, they’ll all be there now. You lost your spot! Seriously, even little ledges around the pillars etc should have been provided. I can’t believe something the width of a pint could cause an obstruction in a fire. Our ground must be one of the easiest to evacuate from the concourse. Compared to lots of other grounds at least in an emergency we could even leap over the turnstiles if we had to. Swansea last week had the old style floor to well over head height bars you had to push like a revolving door, and it was a bit of a crush for many. I guess in their situation it would be open the emergency exits or on the pitch, and theirs is quite a newish build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 hour ago, pongo88 said: For those who say seats can not be allowed in a concourse, here is a picture of seats at Burton’s ground in March (thankS@TETBURY MASSIVE ) As they automatically tip up they do not cause an obstruction. Also, I sat on one of the seats and can confirm I did not auto combust, or even get a warm bum People are talking absolute rubbish on here. I have been told previously that the club were considering putting some seating in the concourse. The SAGs have been blamed for refusing this seating. There are seats in some concourse areas, Liverpool being one of them, so if they meet fire regs there, they can meet them anywhere. We have 26,500 odd seats within the stadium and they don't combust, sorry Poppy but utter rubbish. The truth is, the club can't be bothered to go to the effort of putting them in. There are twelve recessed areas at the rear of the Dolman concourse, it's impossible for them to cause any obstruction what so ever as the concrete columns protrude further than the seats would. It would be possible to fit 108 seats in that area alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: @Robert the bruce What would the seats be constructed out of? If attached to the wall, could they not in theory auto-ignite? This could in theory, pose a fire risk,a smoke risk- perhaps even if long enough a risk to the integrity of the walls they are attached to? Though I'd say that's a real outside risk in the timespan etc. White phosphorous? The auto-ignition point of almost all plastics is well over 400 degrees Celsius, so we would all be melting like the German man from Raiders of the Lost Ark long before any autonomously combusting seats posed a risk to safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve Watts said: Regardless of whether or not you believe the point about auto-ignition, the main point made in response to your complaint is that the club have not taken this decision, and therefore, the club are not putting marketing above anyone's interest. The decision was made for them. It's just another example of people using any excuse they can invent to bash the club. We wouldn't want to let facts get in the way of a good moan, though, would we! If only it were a fact! The answer depends on the question they ask. If the question is we want to put a 150mm wide solid shelf constructed of the same material as the existing walls - do you seriously think the answer is ‘no’ it would represent, either or both, a fire hazard or an obstruction to a means of escape? No, me neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 No that would be a health hazard due to possible head injuries to children or dwarfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl1 Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 Sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted September 3, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, Rich said: It would be possible to fit 108 seats in that area alone. Thats VERY precise, where does this number come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted September 3, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Drew Peacock said: Because he wanted a beer? Lack of seating is the reason I don't drink in the concourse. Go to a pub? Drink in the sports bar? Drink in the supporters club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 4 hours ago, bengalcub said: Maybe the supporters club should be free for a gentleman or gentle lady of a certain age , this would help them to relax and have a better pre match experience. Not going to lie, if you can afford to go to watch City you can afford £2.50 a month supporters club membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, Rich said: People are talking absolute rubbish on here. I have been told previously that the club were considering putting some seating in the concourse. The SAGs have been blamed for refusing this seating. There are seats in some concourse areas, Liverpool being one of them, so if they meet fire regs there, they can meet them anywhere. We have 26,500 odd seats within the stadium and they don't combust, sorry Poppy but utter rubbish. The truth is, the club can't be bothered to go to the effort of putting them in. There are twelve recessed areas at the rear of the Dolman concourse, it's impossible for them to cause any obstruction what so ever as the concrete columns protrude further than the seats would. It would be possible to fit 108 seats in that area alone. Impossible to say whether they would combust, because there's been no fire to test against! Never said it was likely, mertely said it was possible and a risk they would have to take into account. @Coxy27 No expert on fire, but my point, theory, is that the external temperature (say there was a fire in the stand and we evacuated into the concourse)- it reaches a certain point and can set the plastic seats attached to the wall on fire. It can also char these at a lesser temperature and smoke is often a big problem in fires...According to a (quick) search- the flash point is somewhat lower than the auto-ignition temperature so I'd suggest there is a small risk. @Moor2Sea You're suggesting the seats would be made of concrete/breeze block? That may well change the equation significantly, given concrete doesn't burn, breeze block likewise. Shelves for beer a useful idea though IMO, they used to have (albeit not huge ones) in the Atyeo IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 minute ago, phantom said: Go to a pub? Drink in the sports bar? Drink in the supporters club? Pub for me or nothing at all depending on timing. Not a Supporters Club member (and I am not sure why I should have to pay to join the Supporters Club to possibly get a seat) and I assume all the seats in the Sports Bar will be taken. I struggle to believe the excuses for no seating or shelves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 On 02/09/2018 at 12:34, Tomarse said: New stadiums are not allowed to have seating in the concourse. They must be kept clear for evacuations is the deemed reason Then why do Ryanair have seats in their aircraft, Tomarse? Did you think through your answer before posting it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, grifty said: No that would be a health hazard due to possible head injuries to children or dwarfs No, when I say solid, effectively extend the wall out by 150 mm to a height of 1200mm. Not difficult or that expensive. Children and drawfs would be safe. Only Peter Crouch is at risk of tripping over it and that would only be if he was going to walk through the existing solid stadium wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said: No, when I say solid, effectively extend the wall out by 150 mm to a height of 1200mm. Not difficult or that expensive. Children and drawfs would be safe. Only Peter Crouch is at risk of tripping over it and that would only be if he was going to walk through the existing solid stadium wall. Is your Health & Safety Advisory service still government funded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, phantom said: Thats VERY precise, where does this number come from? Might sound sad but, I've calculated it from the distance between the pillars, count the blocks. Also, the size of seats available. The seats are 460mm-500mm. The recessed areas are 4.5m. Therefore you can fit nine seats in each recess, 9x12 = 108. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Impossible to say whether they would combust, because there's been no fire to test against! Never said it was likely, mertely said it was possible and a risk they would have to take into account. @Coxy27 No expert on fire, but my point, theory, is that the external temperature (say there was a fire in the stand and we evacuated into the concourse)- it reaches a certain point and can set the plastic seats attached to the wall on fire. It can also char these at a lesser temperature and smoke is often a big problem in fires...According to a (quick) search- the flash point is somewhat lower than the auto-ignition temperature so I'd suggest there is a small risk. @Moor2Sea You're suggesting the seats would be made of concrete/breeze block? That may well change the equation significantly, given concrete doesn't burn, breeze block likewise. Shelves for beer a useful idea though IMO, they used to have (albeit not huge ones) in the Atyeo IIRC. As someone has already pointed out, if it were hot enough to spontaneously combust seats, we would already have melted. Bit of a pointless discussion really, even if people were expected to vacate their seat and go to that area, the heat and smoke would make it impossible, so the pitch is the next safe escape route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, ... said: Is your Health & Safety Advisory service still government funded? Nope. Commonsense is free. Just keep asking the right questions and ultimately you’ll get the right answers. Just doesn’t work for The Lottery unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 37 minutes ago, Rich said: Might sound sad but, I've calculated it from the distance between the pillars, count the blocks. Also, the size of seats available. The seats are 460mm-500mm. The recessed areas are 4.5m. Therefore you can fit nine seats in each recess, 9x12 = 108. So sad, here's a link. www.arenastadiaseating.co.uk/downloads/arena-stadia-brochure.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 We'll clearly never agree on this @Rich . Pretty sure it's just the minimisation of fire risk in the concourses- whether it's proportionate or not- that prevents this tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, pillred said: that and no real place to put your glass down. Only place is on top of the bins, pretty poor really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: No wonder Mark Kelly left this forum is all I can say. The same thread being rehashed maybe a year on, even though the hands of the club are tied. Not a dig at anyone, just an observation. The clubs hands are not tied, your observation is not correct. The group that oversee things are an advisory group only. If the will was there, the club could install some seating, as long as it complied with building regulations. As has been proven, other clubs have done it. If you don't like reading rehashed threads, don't bother reading or commenting on them, you have a choice. My own interest in this subject is due to a family member being unable to attend and enjoy the concourse facilities with his family, for various reasons. There are numerous other people that would like to use these facilities that are restricted to mostly able bodied people. There is a recommendation in the accessible stadium guide, that all bar areas provide seating for ambulant disabled. This is a good practice guide to the design of facilities to meet the needs of disabled spectators and other users. It is the guide all the Football authorities refer to and are guided by in the design process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 47 minutes ago, Rich said: The clubs hands are not tied, your observation is not correct. The group that oversee things are an advisory group only. If the will was there, the club could install some seating, as long as it complied with building regulations. As has been proven, other clubs have done it. If you don't like reading rehashed threads, don't bother reading or commenting on them, you have a choice. My own interest in this subject is due to a family member being unable to attend and enjoy the concourse facilities with his family, for various reasons. There are numerous other people that would like to use these facilities that are restricted to mostly able bodied people. There is a recommendation in the accessible stadium guide, that all bar areas provide seating for ambulant disabled. This is a good practice guide to the design of facilities to meet the needs of disabled spectators and other users. It is the guide all the Football authorities refer to and are guided by in the design process. We've had this discussion before and it keeps getting ignored if someone could look up the other thread. I know for a fact if a fire breaks out in the concourse or any particular stand those sections will be closed off to fans and all fans will be evacuated to the pitch by stewards. That is what they're trained to do so all this talk about the seats being a fire risk is nonsense. Many clubs who have redeveloped their ground recently have put in seats and shelving in their concourses as requested by fans (liverpool, west ham, tottenham and a few others from lower leagues). Even the atyeo has shelving which is made from solid wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich said: The clubs hands are not tied, your observation is not correct. The group that oversee things are an advisory group only. If the will was there, the club could install some seating, as long as it complied with building regulations. As has been proven, other clubs have done it. If you don't like reading rehashed threads, don't bother reading or commenting on them, you have a choice. My own interest in this subject is due to a family member being unable to attend and enjoy the concourse facilities with his family, for various reasons. There are numerous other people that would like to use these facilities that are restricted to mostly able bodied people. There is a recommendation in the accessible stadium guide, that all bar areas provide seating for ambulant disabled. This is a good practice guide to the design of facilities to meet the needs of disabled spectators and other users. It is the guide all the Football authorities refer to and are guided by in the design process. All of your claims about other grounds are questionable tbh. SAG? It's advisory according to the name, but I'm unconvinced it is in practice- seems when SAGs say jump a club has to say 'how high'? Combine it with fire and building regs... It's unfortunate but I just don't see it as a feasible development at this time. I know I have a choice- as does Mark Kelly. Maybe I shouldn't have presumed he left the board because of it, but the same questions being regurgitated hardly help. It's a pretty pointless debate though- between.2 fans with no say or sway- but you may as well perhaps ask @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO about this. @Threshing Red Go back and read Mark Kelly's posts on why the concourses need to be kept as sterile areas? That said, no problem with the concept of shelving- depending on the size and shape. Pretty sure Mark Kelly referred to concourse as being a place of relevant safety hence it suggests to me that it is a place of evacuation- where's your sources to the contrary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 If the SAG minutes were available under FoI, perhaps we would know the answers................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 I sit in W2 upper lansdown . We have silver shelfs up there attached to some pillars next to the kiosk to put drinks on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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