So comfy in the concourse

[Drew Peacock]

5 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I sit in W2 upper lansdown . We have silver shelfs up there attached to some pillars next to the kiosk to put drinks on. 

Bastard.

[pongo88]

Another dull fact. Tip up seats fitted to the walls could be made of steel which has a melting point of approx 1300 - 1400 degrees C. At this point, if they started melting, they would exacerbate any fire in the concourse. But, of course, what sort of fire would generate that temperature and how long would it take to reach that temperature? In an emergency stands could be evacuated in minutes, via the pitch if necessary 

[RumRed]

Silver has a melting point of almost  a 1000 degrees celcius, if they start dripping you are in serious trouble.

Bit pricey though, typical they're in the Lansdown.

[T R]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

All of your claims about other grounds are questionable tbh.

SAG? It's advisory according to the name, but I'm unconvinced it is in practice- seems when SAGs say jump a club has to say 'how high'? Combine it with fire and building regs...

It's unfortunate but I just don't see it as a feasible development at this time.

I know I have a choice- as does Mark Kelly. Maybe I shouldn't have presumed he left the board because of it, but the same questions being regurgitated hardly help.

It's a pretty pointless debate though- between.2 fans with no say or sway- but you may as well perhaps ask @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO about this.

@Threshing Red

Go back and read Mark Kelly's posts on why the concourses need to be kept as sterile areas? That said, no problem with the concept of shelving- depending on the size and shape.

Pretty sure Mark Kelly referred to concourse as being a place of relevant safety hence it suggests to me that it is a place of evacuation- where's your sources to the contrary?

What gets me about this sag group is they preach about health and safety to keep the concourse clear. But they don't mind having corperate events jam packed with fire hazardous material with hundreds to thounsands of people at the events. Another thing that gets on my goat is where they put the family area in upper lansdown. You gotta think how are they gonna get out if a fire breaks out under the stand. This is why I would never choose to go up there, unless I take a long rope.

As someone has already mentioned they just can't be bothered to put in some shelving or seats.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

What gets me about this sag group is they preach about health and safety to keep the concourse clear. But they don't mind having corperate events jam packed with fire hazardous material with hundreds to thounsands of people at the events. Another thing that gets on my goat is where they put the family area in upper lansdown. You gotta think how are they gonna get out if a fire breaks out under the stand. This is why I would never choose to go up there, unless I take a long rope.

As someone has already mentioned they just can't be bothered to put in some shelving or seats.

I fully agree about shelving- they had it in the Atyeo. Seemed alright then- the shelves I seem to remember were smaller? Hence maybe deemed a lower risk maybe.

Yeah, upper Lansdown would be a nightmare in a fire, no arguments there. Would also be a tad concerned about evacuation of Dolman too, given how slowly it seems to clear on a matchday. 

The SAG are overboard on a lot of areas, no arguments- can only assume that in this specific case, different regs govern football and trade shows for some reason.

[phantom]

56 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

If the SAG minutes were available under FoI, perhaps we would know the answers...................

I remember @Tomarseapplied but not sure how it ended, it was certainly a murky cover up 

[T R]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I fully agree about shelving- they had it in the Atyeo. Seemed alright then- the shelves I seem to remember were smaller? Hence maybe deemed a lower risk maybe.

Yeah, upper Lansdown would be a nightmare in a fire, no arguments there. Would also be a tad concerned about evacuation of Dolman too, given how slowly it seems to clear on a matchday. 

The SAG are overboard on a lot of areas, no arguments- can only assume that in this specific case, different regs govern football and trade shows for some reason.

I believe this should be one independent SAG group for all football in england. Should be made up with highly professional trained people and not small groups of councilors or the members of the board.

[TonyTonyTony]

I don’t buy the fire regulation argument. It’s a typical British ‘Ealth and Safety excuse

 Surely any fire assessment risk looks at safe access and egress, adequate fire extinguishing and lack of highly combustible material. 

A few chairs / shelves made out of something that doesn’t easily burn is surely not out of the question

 

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

All of your claims about other grounds are questionable tbh.

SAG? It's advisory according to the name, but I'm unconvinced it is in practice- seems when SAGs say jump a club has to say 'how high'? Combine it with fire and building regs...

It's unfortunate but I just don't see it as a feasible development at this time.

I know I have a choice- as does Mark Kelly. Maybe I shouldn't have presumed he left the board because of it, but the same questions being regurgitated hardly help.

It's a pretty pointless debate though- between.2 fans with no say or sway- but you may as well perhaps ask @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO about this.

@Threshing Red

Go back and read Mark Kelly's posts on why the concourses need to be kept as sterile areas? That said, no problem with the concept of shelving- depending on the size and shape.

Pretty sure Mark Kelly referred to concourse as being a place of relevant safety hence it suggests to me that it is a place of evacuation- where's your sources to the contrary?

Mark Kelly was acting for the club and on the instructions given by the safety "advisory" group. If the will to provide seating was there, it could be done. As has been stated and blows any argument for refusal out of the water, other clubs have installed seating, why can't ours?

Mark Kelly actually stated that the club were considering putting some seating in the concourse for this season, all be it temporary removeable seating.

The concourse areas are places of safety agreed, they are also means of exit. If that means of exit was paramount, and it should be, why did they position bars in the two narrowest points of the Dolman concourse. Obviously, as a means of exit, it has to meet certain criteria and so obviously does. So, they've made that stipulation in the planning process for those bars. I believe that the sale of refreshments takes precedent over customers comfort in the planning process. That's why they can install a coffee stand in the concourse taking up so called evacuation space, but not seating.

As for my sources, I don't believe what people say just so that you won't ask again. So, I read things, I'm passed information so I follow that up. I study sections of relevant building law. It's all available out there. And I don't believe that as an individual I have no say and no sway. As I've said, there are guidelines which stadium operators are recommended to comply with regarding seating in bar areas for the ambulant disabled, this is currently not being put into practice at Ashton Gate.

[Rich]

49 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

What gets me about this sag group is they preach about health and safety to keep the concourse clear. But they don't mind having corperate events jam packed with fire hazardous material with hundreds to thounsands of people at the events. Another thing that gets on my goat is where they put the family area in upper lansdown. You gotta think how are they gonna get out if a fire breaks out under the stand. This is why I would never choose to go up there, unless I take a long rope.

As someone has already mentioned they just can't be bothered to put in some shelving or seats.

What people are not seeing here is this. We are only being told it's the SAGS demanding the concourse be kept clear. We have never actually seen this requirement because they refuse to allow FOI questions.

[Rich]

25 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

I believe this should be one independent SAG group for all football in england. Should be made up with highly professional trained people and not small groups of councilors or the members of the board.

It's usually the emergency services, people from the planning/regs department at LA and the club representatives.

[Rich]

14 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I don’t buy the fire regulation argument. It’s a typical British ‘Ealth and Safety excuse

 Surely any fire assessment risk looks at safe access and egress, adequate fire extinguishing and lack of highly combustible material. 

A few chairs / shelves made out of something that doesn’t easily burn is surely not out of the question

 

correct.

[redapple]

On 02/09/2018 at 12:31, Ciderandred said:

45million pound. Plus stadium and my 87 year old grand dad has to sit on floor underneath ground as there's no seats.

 

Fantastic.

Heard its due to health and safety. Utter bollox.

why couldn't the old dolman./williams seats been installed on the walls so if there was a fire you stand up seats go up right. Simple

He could always sit at his seat inside the stadium. 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, Super said:

Only place is on top of the bins, pretty poor really.

Ah yes those plastic bins full of paper, cardboard and plastic in the middle of the concourse which won't allow seats because they might catch fire. Of course.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

I remember @Tomarseapplied but not sure how it ended, it was certainly a murky cover up 

Believe when looking into it, saw some FOI request from someone else which was rejected on same grounds- and the individual even had to post for that.

@Threshing Red Fully agree- the SAG system seems to be a postcode lottery currently, definitely not (IMO) fit for purpose- even if the individuals technically qualified, it seems to have no huge consistency nationally.

@Rich We may have been cross purposes, wasn't you I was asking about sources tbh- my question on sources was actually about evacuation through the concourse or onto the pitch?

One area I tend to agree about though is the lack of transparency of our esteemed SAG- really amazing how they just seem to exempt themselves from FOI and transparency generally.

Plus when I say no say or sway, quite simply what I mean is we can kick off on here- but if the SAG (or club)? consider it a risk too far then that's just how it will stay- don't see how to persuade them if they are adamant.

PS, concourses in new stadia or redeveloped stadia? Really very rare. Your Wembley example you have made in the past is 'Club Wembley' areas according to a few pics. Anfield? Will need to look into that.

@TonyTonyTony Depends what the seats made out of surely- so far seen suggestions of breeze blocks, plastic and old Dolman or Williams Seats- all burn/char/melt at significantly different temperatures- in the case of the latter not at all.

Personally think the club and SAG will err on the side of caution simply because bins are essential- seats in a concourse, well they aren't. Millwall away concourse looks pretty fireproof yet no seats in there that I saw.

[T R]

Going back to the opening post complaint, I have noticed in the south stand there is a window ledge next to one of the exit doors.  This is six to ten inches wide, I've seen many fans sitting there half time.  If the club could provide some fire resistant cushions, the job would be well done.

[just like watching brazil]

Still don’t get why were allowed to drink in stands at the World Cup but not at league matches.

[Offside]

My Dad has a similar problem to that described in the OP. He's not as old as 87, but as he's got older he's become less steady on his feet and also has a bad back and arthiritis. We always used to have a couple of pints in a pub before the game but he now finds it difficult to walk from there to the ground. On Sunday he couldn't stand up for too long in the concourse so we had to sit in our seats in he ground quite early. This I imagine will become more of a regular occurance. 

I have no idea about the legalities of having seating in the concourse, but if the club want to encourage fans to use the concourses this needs to be looked at. Common sense suggests to me that seats attached to the walls that spring up when not being used (like he pictures of he ones in Burton) could be an option - especially if they had signs like the seats on buses asking for people to leave them for the elderly or anyone else who has trouble standing.

Joining the SC&T to enable us to use that bar is one option. One question - how long before kick off do you need to get there to have any chance of getting a seat?

 

[reddoh]

10 hours ago, Super said:

having somewhere to put your drink would be an improvement.

I am sorry to hear you have had an accident with your throat, I hope it gets better soon.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Believe when looking into it, saw some FOI request from someone else which was rejected on same grounds- and the individual even had to post for that.

@Threshing Red Fully agree- the SAG system seems to be a postcode lottery currently, definitely not (IMO) fit for purpose- even if the individuals technically qualified, it seems to have no huge consistency nationally.

@Rich We may have been cross purposes, wasn't you I was asking about sources tbh- my question on sources was actually about evacuation through the concourse or onto the pitch?

One area I tend to agree about though is the lack of transparency of our esteemed SAG- really amazing how they just seem to exempt themselves from FOI and transparency generally.

Plus when I say no say or sway, quite simply what I mean is we can kick off on here- but if the SAG (or club)? consider it a risk too far then that's just how it will stay- don't see how to persuade them if they are adamant.

PS, concourses in new stadia or redeveloped stadia? Really very rare. Your Wembley example you have made in the past is 'Club Wembley' areas according to a few pics. Anfield? Will need to look into that.

@TonyTonyTony Depends what the seats made out of surely- so far seen suggestions of breeze blocks, plastic and old Dolman or Williams Seats- all burn/char/melt at significantly different temperatures- in the case of the latter not at all.

Personally think the club and SAG will err on the side of caution simply because bins are essential- seats in a concourse, well they aren't. Millwall away concourse looks pretty fireproof yet no seats in there that I saw.

If you have a look at one of the links for seating: http://www.arenastadiaseating.co.uk/general-admission-seating/ you will see that the seats are designed for either external use with UV protection or, for internal use with fire retardant which complies with regs. There is no issue with meeting fire regulations for internal seating, ask yourself how they provide seating in the hospitality areas.  As for other stadia having seating, I will again refer to Burton, Liverpool and  Wembley, even if it is the club area, are the occupants of those areas in some way different to the plebs that frequent our club's concourses? As others have stated there are seats going in other grounds as well.

Many other grounds do not have the benefit of such large concourse areas as we have, and as such there would be a problem with restricting free movement at those grounds. As well as large concourses, we also have recessed areas where it is impossible to restrict free movement with the addition of seats, we also have the shelves situated along the window areas of the Lansdown and South stands which people currently sit down at, that could be properly adapted.

I believe the only problem we have, is the lack of will from the club to help it's less fortunate paying customers, or their lack of understanding about the demand for it.

[Up The City!]

The fire risk of seats is a complete non entity imo. The only arguement could be that seats could block evacuation routes, however as the club position concession stands wherever they want this arguement doesn't stand up either.

At the final rugby game last season there was a massive stage in the Lansdown concourse, this blocked off a couple of the exits and disrupted the flow of people traffic. A remember feeling rather squeezed when walking past the side of the stage as it was like a bottle neck.

It seems Bristol Sport only do things when they have the potential to make money out of it. 

If someone suggested they installed these seats and people brought tickets to sit on them then I'm sure they would be Installed before the next home game.

[AshtonPark]

9 hours ago, Rich said:

What people are not seeing here is this. We are only being told it's the SAGS demanding the concourse be kept clear. We have never actually seen this requirement because they refuse to allow FOI questions.

Mark Kelly has said previously he is happy to meet to show people it all in regards to seating.

Maybe you or others should meet him, instead of everyone moaning on Internet forums all the time. 

Everyone saying it’s all down to making money etc, to put a stage up the ground would have to pass it via the council etc. Why doesn’t anyone go and meet him etc and discuss it properly like grown ups? Then you might finally work out it’s not the club but the council and start moaning to them. 

Then again, it’s easier to moan online about things then actually meet face to face isn’t it. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

Mark Kelly has said previously he is happy to meet to show people it all in regards to seating.

Maybe you or others should meet him, instead of everyone moaning on Internet forums all the time. 

Everyone saying it’s all down to making money etc, to put a stage up the ground would have to pass it via the council etc. Why doesn’t anyone go and meet him etc and discuss it properly like grown ups? Then you might finally work out it’s not the club but the council and start moaning to them. 

Then again, it’s easier to moan online about things then actually meet face to face isn’t it. 

Think I'm out of likes, but good post.

Moaning on Internet forums about a matter like this- it's therapeutic perhaps...but ultimately pointless tbh. The SAG are far less transparent than is healthy though IMO.

[Frenchay Red]

The question of keeping the concourse clear of a few fold up seats to facilitate rapid evacuation of the stadium in the event of an emergency is, in practical terms, a nonsense.

Certainly as far as the concourse below the Dolman is concerned.

As anyone using the stand will know, it takes absolutely ages to get out after a game, so rapid egress, I would imagine, would be nigh on impossible. A few minor obstructions in the concourse would be the least of concerns.

[Abraham Romanovich]

12 hours ago, Rich said:

As for my sources, I don't believe what people say just so that you won't ask again. So, I read things, I'm passed information so I follow that up. I study sections of relevant building law. It's all available out there. And I don't believe that as an individual I have no say and no sway. As I've said, there are guidelines which stadium operators are recommended to comply with regarding seating in bar areas for the ambulant disabled, this is currently not being put into practice at Ashton Gate.

Exactly.

It is too easy to use Health and Safety as an excuse,is anyone able to post a link to the relevant building legislation so we can all judge whether the lack of concourse seating is someone interpretation of said legislation and not neccesarily the only one.

[AshtonPark]

7 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Exactly.

It is too easy to use Health and Safety as an excuse,is anyone able to post a link to the relevant building legislation so we can all judge whether the lack of concourse seating is someone interpretation of said legislation and not neccesarily the only one.

Or you could go and meet Mark Kelly and let him explain it to you?

[Abraham Romanovich]

43 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Or you could go and meet Mark Kelly and let him explain it to you?

It obviously does not effect your good self but surely the point of a forum is to discuss views and issues on a particular subject which impact on our fan base.

[Up The City!]

6 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

Mark Kelly has said previously he is happy to meet to show people it all in regards to seating.

Maybe you or others should meet him, instead of everyone moaning on Internet forums all the time. 

Everyone saying it’s all down to making money etc, to put a stage up the ground would have to pass it via the council etc. Why doesn’t anyone go and meet him etc and discuss it properly like grown ups? Then you might finally work out it’s not the club but the council and start moaning to them. 

Then again, it’s easier to moan online about things then actually meet face to face isn’t it. 

So how come the council can allow a massive stage but not a few seats or shelves?

[AshtonPark]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

So how come the council can allow a massive stage but not a few seats or shelves?

Again that’s the council isn’t it, that isn’t the club? 

People on here either need to speak to Mark Kelly and gain the facts, then complain to the council. It’s better to do that, then everyone on here pretending they know about building regs etc. 

[HIGHRIDGE BCFC]

There are seats in parts of the East Stand lower concourse at Elland Road Leeds.

There's half a dozen or so of the fixed to the floor tables and chairs at either side of the concourse so it can be done.