Lets have a bit of perspective.

[Cider-Head23]

We are 12th after 16 games, we are very inconsistent but I don't think our season to date has been as bad as some are making out.

We've seen some very good performances and we've seen some very poor performances.

Were a side in a bit of transitional period after a summer full of ins and outs. We are as LJ often says a work in progress. Yes he's been saying that for years but we missed our big chance last season to go up with a more complete and talented side.

2018 has been pretty woeful after our second half of the season slump and then an average start to the season, but shouts of LJ out are premature surely. I've always been a big fan of LJ and continue to back him, although I understand the discontent.

Were bang in the middle in 12th place, of a very difficult competitive league. With the likes of Aston Villa & recently relegated Stoke below us. Teams like Brentford, Sheffield Wednesday & Preston who have done well in recent years below us as well.

We are inconsistent and LJ and his staff have a big job on their hands, to get the best out of the team on a more regular basis. Certain individual players need to find their mojo again for example Paterson & Diedhiou. Who were both a big part of our league and cup success last year.

Recruitment in the summer was despite so debate fairly strong, Weimann has replaced Reid's energy and has goals in him despite a dry spell. Webster looks a fantastic player. Kalas & Dasilva are both excellent loan signings. Watkins has contributed despite being a bit marmite with fans, and were yet to see what Adelukan and Eisa can do.

Yes we've been poor in several games this season, I've just praised the defence who conceded 3 goals on Saturday but we have a talented team.

It's a crazy league, QPR looked awful at one point now look at them.. West Brom and Swansea both lost to teams who are struggling near the foot of the table. Nothing is a given in the Championship.

Were not in great form at the minute, but were 16 games in to a 46 game season. New players still bedding in. We've shown what we can do on our day against some good sides in this division.

In my opinion were not going up and were not going down this season. Sacking LJ at this point would be absurd, let see where we finish up if it's an improvement on last years 11th place it will of meant results will have been consistently good for certainly the second half of the season. If it's below 11th, and in particular well below 11th then its up to Lansdown and the board to decide if LJ has taken us as far as he's come.

But as the topic title says, lets have some perspective were 12th place in a very competitive tough league. Full of ex premier league clubs and big wage bills. We've got no divine to be right up there, yes we've spent fairly big but so has most of the other clubs in the second tier.

 

[old_eastender]

5 minutes ago, Cider-Head23 said:

We are 12th after 16 games, we are very inconsistent but I don't think our season to date has been as bad as some are making out.

We've seen some very good performances and we've seen some very poor performances. 

 

Trouble is from my viewpoint we have seen just 1 very good performance, Swansea away, but have seen multiple very poor performances.

Right now I cannot see anyway under LJ that we will finish better than last season's 11th place.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Cider-Head23

Excellent post- agree with most of that! (Unsure about Diedhiou though). This start was roughly what I expected- actually our 4 game winning streak was for me exceeding expectations, especially given 3 of the sides we beat in that timeframe!

@old_eastender Thoughts on our 4-1 vs Blackburn? 1-0 v Sheffield United- (only the 4th and 5th best away records in the division- or put another way joint 3rd). More importantly 3rd and 8th in the League.,

Vs Brentford we hung on in there first half, 2nd half when the opportunity arose with them going down to 10 we took advantage! Only home loss for them this season btw, a ground we very seldom win at. Played well in defeat v WBA and v Stoke too, noticeable I heard no particular booing when we lost at home to Stoke because it was clear we git less than we deserved.

Unsure we will beat 11th place though, but for me this was a midtable transitional type season with some good notable results, some good performances- and some bad performances and shockers. I mean we all bemoaned the loss at Wigan but they after a third of the season have the joint best home record in the League with Brentford, Derby and Sheff Utd- these things aren't easy!

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Cider-Head23 said:

We are 12th after 16 games, we are very inconsistent but I don't think our season to date has been as bad as some are making out.

We've seen some very good performances and we've seen some very poor performances.

Were a side in a bit of transitional period after a summer full of ins and outs. We are as LJ often says a work in progress. Yes he's been saying that for years but we missed our big chance last season to go up with a more complete and talented side.

2018 has been pretty woeful after our second half of the season slump and then an average start to the season, but shouts of LJ out are premature surely. I've always been a big fan of LJ and continue to back him, although I understand the discontent.

Were bang in the middle in 12th place, of a very difficult competitive league. With the likes of Aston Villa & recently relegated Stoke below us. Teams like Brentford, Sheffield Wednesday & Preston who have done well in recent years below us as well.

We are inconsistent and LJ and his staff have a big job on their hands, to get the best out of the team on a more regular basis. Certain individual players need to find their mojo again for example Paterson & Diedhiou. Who were both a big part of our league and cup success last year.

Recruitment in the summer was despite so debate fairly strong, Weimann has replaced Reid's energy and has goals in him despite a dry spell. Webster looks a fantastic player. Kalas & Dasilva are both excellent loan signings. Watkins has contributed despite being a bit marmite with fans, and were yet to see what Adelukan and Eisa can do.

Yes we've been poor in several games this season, I've just praised the defence who conceded 3 goals on Saturday but we have a talented team.

It's a crazy league, QPR looked awful at one point now look at them.. West Brom and Swansea both lost to teams who are struggling near the foot of the table. Nothing is a given in the Championship.

Were not in great form at the minute, but were 16 games in to a 46 game season. New players still bedding in. We've shown what we can do on our day against some good sides in this division.

In my opinion were not going up and were not going down this season. Sacking LJ at this point would be absurd, let see where we finish up if it's an improvement on last years 11th place it will of meant results will have been consistently good for certainly the second half of the season. If it's below 11th, and in particular well below 11th then its up to Lansdown and the board to decide if LJ has taken us as far as he's come.

But as the topic title says, lets have some perspective were 12th place in a very competitive tough league. Full of ex premier league clubs and big wage bills. We've got no divine to be right up there, yes we've spent fairly big but so has most of the other clubs in the second tier.

 

New players still bedding in, and other clubs have no new players?

If we don't beat Preston and Ipswich it will be a while before we win again, in fact LJ`s own record breaking winless streak could then be under threat.

This is not a tough league we could smash it if we had made better use of the transfer window, top six more likely to be bottom 6 if people don't wake the hell up soon, and finally SL and the board will not decide SL will.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

New players still bedding in, and other clubs have no new players?

If we don't beat Preston and Ipswich it will be a while before we win again, in fact LJ`s own record breaking winless streak could then be under threat.

This is not a tough league we could smash it if we had made better use of the transfer window, top six more likely to be bottom 6 if people don't wake the hell up soon, and finally SL and the board will not decide SL will.

How would you have gone about the summer window?

(Working within the constraints currently on the club).

[Red Army 75]

6 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

New players still bedding in, and other clubs have no new players?

If we don't beat Preston and Ipswich it will be a while before we win again, in fact LJ`s own record breaking winless streak could then be under threat.

This is not a tough league we could smash it if we had made better use of the transfer window, top six more likely to be bottom 6 if people don't wake the hell up soon, and finally SL and the board will not decide SL will.

Bit of perspective. And you call the championship “not a tough league “. Agree about new players . But the quote is probably the biggest bollocks I’ve read on here. 

[Cider-Head23]

10 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

New players still bedding in, and other clubs have no new players?

If we don't beat Preston and Ipswich it will be a while before we win again, in fact LJ`s own record breaking winless streak could then be under threat.

This is not a tough league we could smash it if we had made better use of the transfer window, top six more likely to be bottom 6 if people don't wake the hell up soon, and finally SL and the board will not decide SL will.

We have a vast amount of new signings in and around the starting 11. Pretty much a brand new back 5 including GK. 

The league might seem weaker with no teams like Wolves running away with it etc. But I struggle to see how a league this competitive is not tough. You can beat top of the league one week and lose to the bottom the next. 

How have we get a divine right to smash the league. There’s plenty of teams who have been in the championship a lot longer than us. Not to mention recently relegated top flight sides. 

[Red Army 75]

1 minute ago, Cider-Head23 said:

We have a vast amount of new signings in and around the starting 11. Pretty much a brand new back 5 including GK. 

The league might seem weaker with no teams like Wolves running away with it etc. But I struggle to see how a league this competitive is not tough. You can beat top of the league one week and lose to the bottom the next. 

How have we get a divine right to smash the league. There’s plenty of teams who have been in the championship a lot longer than us. Not to mention recently top flight sides. 

Exactly. If people want LJ out fair enough. They have a strong case . But let’s not pretend any championship managers job is easy. It’s absolutely brutal 

[Cider-Head23]

3 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Exactly. If people want LJ out fair enough. They have a strong case . But let’s not pretend any championship managers job is easy. It’s absolutely brutal 

Exactly if it was easy.. teams like Villa & Stoke with their squads would be flying high up the top. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Cider-Head23 said:

Exactly if it was easy.. teams like Villa & Stoke with their squads would be flying high up the top. 

Tend to agree- though feel Rowett a tad overrated and some of Villa's players a bit the wrong side of 30 so maybe not quite as good as the names suggests. However yeah, the overarching point- incredibly tough League, brutal as @Red Army 75 said.

[glen humphries]

36 minutes ago, Cider-Head23 said:

We are 12th after 16 games, we are very inconsistent but I don't think our season to date has been as bad as some are making out.

We've seen some very good performances and we've seen some very poor performances.

Were a side in a bit of transitional period after a summer full of ins and outs. We are as LJ often says a work in progress. Yes he's been saying that for years but we missed our big chance last season to go up with a more complete and talented side.

2018 has been pretty woeful after our second half of the season slump and then an average start to the season, but shouts of LJ out are premature surely. I've always been a big fan of LJ and continue to back him, although I understand the discontent.

Were bang in the middle in 12th place, of a very difficult competitive league. With the likes of Aston Villa & recently relegated Stoke below us. Teams like Brentford, Sheffield Wednesday & Preston who have done well in recent years below us as well.

We are inconsistent and LJ and his staff have a big job on their hands, to get the best out of the team on a more regular basis. Certain individual players need to find their mojo again for example Paterson & Diedhiou. Who were both a big part of our league and cup success last year.

Recruitment in the summer was despite so debate fairly strong, Weimann has replaced Reid's energy and has goals in him despite a dry spell. Webster looks a fantastic player. Kalas & Dasilva are both excellent loan signings. Watkins has contributed despite being a bit marmite with fans, and were yet to see what Adelukan and Eisa can do.

Yes we've been poor in several games this season, I've just praised the defence who conceded 3 goals on Saturday but we have a talented team.

It's a crazy league, QPR looked awful at one point now look at them.. West Brom and Swansea both lost to teams who are struggling near the foot of the table. Nothing is a given in the Championship.

Were not in great form at the minute, but were 16 games in to a 46 game season. New players still bedding in. We've shown what we can do on our day against some good sides in this division.

In my opinion were not going up and were not going down this season. Sacking LJ at this point would be absurd, let see where we finish up if it's an improvement on last years 11th place it will of meant results will have been consistently good for certainly the second half of the season. If it's below 11th, and in particular well below 11th then its up to Lansdown and the board to decide if LJ has taken us as far as he's come.

But as the topic title says, lets have some perspective were 12th place in a very competitive tough league. Full of ex premier league clubs and big wage bills. We've got no divine to be right up there, yes we've spent fairly big but so has most of the other clubs in the second tier.

 

The trouble with lj is he doesn’t seem able to get his teams to play well consistently, it’s boom or bust with him,was the same at Oldham and Barnsley that can’t be a coincidence it’s obvious it’s something he’s doing wrong, to be fair to him it must be just as frustrating for him as it is for the fans but he needs to find a solution sharpish 

[Tin Soldier]

Actually I think it will be proven in years to come that last season and this season, were/are our best chances of getting to the play offs or Prem.  No guarantees via the play offs we all know that.

Only time will prove if these two seasons are our chance. Certainly no one is running away with the Champ this season, that is for sure. Inconsistency cost us last season and it will cost again this season. Fact.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Actually I think it will be proven in years to come that last season and this season, were/are our best chances of getting to the play offs or Prem.  No guarantees via the play offs we all know that.

Only time will prove if these two seasons are our chance. Certainly no one is running away with the Champ this season, that is for sure. Inconsistency cost us last season and it will cost again this season. Fact.

Thing about that though is, that when there is a churn of players- and it's been fairly constant under LJ- that consistency, that year of properly bedding in you quite often need, just ain't there- the chemistry is just destroyed.

This season so far comes as little surprise to me and that's a decent chunk of the reason why.

[Davefevs]

I’m happy enough to be 12th...my main gripe this season has been the level of performance...we don’t seem a team at the mo’.  LJ needs to instil that togetherness, the run through a brick wall for each other mentality.

The other week (sorry, Basketball again) Le Bron James made a point to his teammates that when a fellow player is on the deck, it’s their duty to pick him up, not let him get to his feet on his own or worse still an opponent pick him up.  It’s a basic thing, but I’ve seen it happen 4 or 5 times since across a few teams.  It might be a bit cheesy, but it’s sometimes smal things that bread teams.

[eardun]

We need Pack to find some form again quickly as that remains my concern. He hasn’t been firing on all cylinders for weeks, and I think that is playing a big part in our disjointed performances. It is why I think 433 would help us - and him - at the moment as it did in second half v Stoke (until Brownhill was subbed).

[Bar BS3]

5 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

Actually I think it will be proven in years to come that last season and this season, were/are our best chances of getting to the play offs or Prem.  No guarantees via the play offs we all know that.

Only time will prove if these two seasons are our chance. Certainly no one is running away with the Champ this season, that is for sure. Inconsistency cost us last season and it will cost again this season. Fact.

Isn’t inconsistency what will stop the vast majority of teams from being promoted..?! 

The few that find the greater level of consistency, tend to go up. 

Thats how football works..! 

[ScottishRed]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How would you have gone about the summer window?

(Working within the constraints currently on the club).

Mr P , it’s not all about money and that is what so many on here believe it is.

Its about deciding about a style of play and sticking with it using the resources you can afford and COACHING and IMPROVING them - LJ would appear to think that whilst shopping in Sainsburys he is buying from Harrrods and not having to ‘cook’ them himself!

It is not that simple.

He has a ‘limited ‘ budget but he is not spending that on ingredients that he can make something that is better than the sum of the parts!

He is under no threat so the pressure to deliver is very different to 90% of the managers in this league.

#toocosy

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Mr P , it’s not all about money and that is what so many on here believe it is.

Its about deciding about a style of play and sticking with it using the resources you can afford and COACHING and IMPROVING them - LJ would appear to think that whilst shopping in Sainsburys he is buying from Harrrods and not having to ‘cook’ them himself!

It is not that simple.

He has a ‘limited ‘ budget but he is not spending that on ingredients that he can make something that is better than the sum of the parts!

He is under no threat so the pressure to deliver is very different to 90% of the managers in this league.

#toocosy

 

 

I don't know about the pressure thing, however it is fair to say I would agree about the shortcomings in, amongst others:

• Coaching
• Improvement
• Consistency
• Ability to get proper momentum over a long period.

I'm certainly not blind to his shortcomings in various areas- yet I'm also not exactly despairing over 12th and the good wins in different ways we achieved vs Swansea, Blackburn, Sheffield United- and yeah the only side to win at Brentford! I agree though, regardless of resources or otherwise there are certain things lacking- I did wonder at one point if SL could have had enough and be setting him up to fail a little with an expectation of improvement despite the necessary changes and transition. That said, I also think he has a problem with getting the best out of more established players, say mid 20's upwards- from either PL, Championship or foreign top divisions- that limits us as well.

At the same time though, with the constant churn of players- and especially this summer with so many big players then squad players having left, I was not expecting big things. I think I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of LJ- but his consistent use of 4-4-2 irks because I have felt for a long time it doesn't necessarily suit a) The desired ethos of passing football and b) The players we have. Yet, some expected goals metrics for the League show us up in 4th or 5th in terms of what we may have deserved so again not fully decided in any sense- not in the LJ out camp at this time though, I know that from either.

[ScottishRed]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't know about the pressure thing, however it is fair to say I would agree about the shortcomings in, amongst others:

• Coaching
• Improvement
• Consistency
• Ability to get proper momentum over a long period.

I'm certainly not blind to his shortcomings in various areas- yet I'm also not exactly despairing over 12th and the good wins in different ways we achieved vs Swansea, Blackburn, Sheffield United- and yeah the only side to win at Brentford! I agree though, regardless of resources or otherwise there are certain things lacking- I did wonder at one point if SL could have had enough and be setting him up to fail a little with an expectation of improvement despite the necessary changes and transition. That said, I also think he has a problem with getting the best out of more established players, say mid 20's upwards- from either PL, Championship or foreign top divisions- that limits us as well.

At the same time though, with the constant churn of players- and especially this summer with so many big players then squad players having left, I was not expecting big things. I think I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of LJ- but his consistent use of 4-4-2 irks because I have felt for a long time it doesn't necessarily suit a) The desired ethos of passing football and b) The players we have. Yet, some expected goals metrics for the League show us up in 4th or 5th in terms of what we may have deserved so again not fully decided in any sense- not in the LJ out camp at this time though, I know that from either.

Good post Mr P.

I think a little like yourself and like most supporters, my over riding feeling is one of confusion.

1. I truly don't know our 'identity ' in fact I don't think we have one.

2.  I can't understand why we 'churn' so many players, with the exception of big offers, which I do get.

3. Why can't we settle on a formation and stick with it - regardless of who we are playing.

4. Why no DoF to keep LJ in check - MA is NO DoF

5 . What are we trying to achieve? I truly don't know

I do think in most other clubs in this league LJ would either be gone or on borrowed time - he isn't in either sense, and won't be, so what is the ideal?

My answer to that is that SL believes that he can get to the PL with Academy 'graduates' and bargain bin L1 and lower players - that isn't going to happen without truly OUTSTANDING coaching and a real knack of spotting talent.

Whilst at the same time generating a true culture of expectation and desire.

Sadly, I don't believe we have either of these qualities...........#toocosy

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

Good post Mr P.

I think a little like yourself and like most supporters, my over riding feeling is one of confusion.

1. I truly don't know our 'identity ' in fact I don't think we have one.

2.  I can't understand why we 'churn' so many players, with the exception of big offers, which I do get.

3. Why can't we settle on a formation and stick with it - regardless of who we are playing.

4. Why no DoF to keep LJ in check - MA is NO DoF

5 . What are we trying to achieve? I truly don't know

I do think in most other clubs in this league LJ would either be gone or on borrowed time - he isn't in either sense, and won't be, so what is the ideal?

My answer to that is that SL believes that he can get to the PL with Academy 'graduates' and bargain bin L1 and lower players - that isn't going to happen without truly OUTSTANDING coaching and a real knack of spotting talent.

Whilst at the same time generating a true culture of expectation and desire.

Sadly, I don't believe we have either of these qualities...........#toocosy

Agree on a lot of that, though I'm still comfortable with the idea of changing shape every so often- hallmark of a good manager IMO, but not like we do.

1. Agreed- are we pressing, passing, counterattacking? Mix of the 3?
2. Agreed- the churn is far from helpful, thought so for 2 years- like you when there are big offers it is understandable and sometimes (mostly?) even absolutely necessary that we cash in.
3. Broadly agree, though vs Sheffield United it had the desired effect so once in a while etc. Continuity and  consistency all helps though so yeah, the more settled the better I think!
4. Yeah, not quite his skillset. @Davefevs mentioned the other day IIRC Lennie Lawrence a big help to Trollope at those jokers up the road- noticeable that when he left their fortunes left with him! Experienced DOF would help, should also add that a proper dedicated foreign scout in addition to Mervyn Day and the team would be no bad thing I think.
5. Think we want to reach the PL, but the flexibility aspect to the plan is somewhat lacking and over time of not already this will act as a constraint.

I absolutely agree, recruitment needs to be better- much better. Don't think it has been terrible, more hit and miss with quite a few players in between. However to progress we need it to be maybe 9/10 rather than the let's say between 5-6/10 than it is currently, and yeah as you say fantastic coaching, outstanding in fact- again think ours is alright, sometimes capable of great things, but an area that needs to be at least 9/10 instead of the current 6, 6.5.

@GasDestroyer As well as the point about inconsistency etc, thought about your other points. It's hard to say what the Championship will look like in the coming years- lot of clubs seem to be likely to be facing a financial crunch one way or the other, or just not big enough or rich enough to compete higher in the table even if well run so there are chances it could be more open by dint of lack of cash/bad chairmen decisions!

I was looking at the League earlier today and I give you- and rules MUST be enforced correctly and consistently for this to have a chance of working:

• Aston Villa- If they stay down this season, huge financial hole faced- think they may already be in one- that said Dean Smith can if Brentford is anything to go by, seem to build on a fairly low budget- and he may need to!
• Birmingham- Big financial hole and that overhang on paper should hinder them for a while.
• Blackburn- Fair play, Mowbray is doing a great job there without spending a huge amount- but how long can they keep it up- either on the pitch or off?
• Bolton- Can't see them troubling the top sides in years to come, can you? Their financial regs position maybe not so bad, but they just aren't terribly rich, overhang from being badly run in late 2000's, early 2010's.
• Brentford- One of the best models in the League in fairness- they should be capable of capitalising if they can just keep the player trading good for another year or 2, Dean Smith leaving may hinder them though.
• Derby- Maybe their position is better than I thought, they had an aging squad last year and apparently close to breaching financial limits, yet look at them now! Have they rebuilt brilliantly and in double quick time, or just kicked the can down the road I wonder?
• Hull- Actually a pretty good financial position which will help them in coming years- but their owners have no desire to invest, want out so lower midtable their ambitions atm I think.
• Ipswich- Not the worst financial position, but just seems a club going nowhere, Big rebuilding job for Lambert there, and lost so many goals over the summer- can't see a quick fix.
• Leeds- If there is a club with the means and wherewithal on paper to get back to PL and soon it's Leeds in many ways- yes no parachute payments but Bielsa, highest commercial revenue, Elland Road a fortress- and unlike others because of these facts, I wouldn't expect them to be in financial issues either- quite prudent in the transfer market, sold an academy product for £7m this summer for one, probably some other wheeling and dealing also!
• Middlesborough- Excellent financial position in some ways, yet if they don't go up this season it's final year of Parachute payments- they drop and things may look quite different if they don't go up next year at the latest. Gibson also seems to run them pretty well.
• Millwall- Probably alright financially, but nothing special or likely to be achieving anything special on the pitch, by dint of budget- still the New Den can be a fortress, but you wouldn't usually expect them to be challenging!
• Norwich- Usually quite well run, some reasonable but not outstanding wriggle-room due to a mix of Parachute Payments and profit on players- provided they don't go stupid, would think they should be contending at the top of this League a lot of the time.
• Nottingham Forest- Gambled this year! Will it pay off? On paper maybe, but if not could be a big problem for them next season, their £32.1m profit was actually a loss when adjusted properly as debt write offs don't count for FFP purposes.
• Preston- Usually a well run club, will do well often, will do badly sometimes but won't be tearing up the League.
• QPR- Unless they go up this year, their financial antics will catch up with them! Their parachute payments will be gone next year, which if my maths are broadly correct will knock about 50% off their income! Huge hole, again if rules enforced correctly then they will need to cut quite big further, certainly not be signing Rangel on a free, with loans for Cameron, Wells and Hemed!
• Reading- Last accounts showed a small loss or profit in their playoff season and that was WITH Parachute payments. Think they are already overspending but next year that final year of PP will be wiped off and they should have to cut back further- which will surely weaken them.
• Rotherham- Fine financially I expect, but they're Rotherham- just surviving would be a great feat for them!
• Sheffield United- Hard one. Think they have a good squad, probably not going bankrupt but some aging players so rebuilding of certain areas of the team something they need to look at.
• Sheffield Wednesday- How they haven't had to flog Bannan and Forestieri I do not know- lost £20m+ in 16/17, presumed to have lost similar last season and they've made some cutbacks but nowhere near enough.
• Stoke- 3 years of parachute payments should mean they won't go bust, but at the same time can't see Rowett necessarily taking them up- depends how ling contracts are too, but should be fine financially for a little while yet.
• Swansea- Fair play ti them. Big cutbacks already despite Year 1 of Parachute Payments, and trying to rebuild their old model. Tough decisions but feel it will stand them in good stead in the medium to long run.
• WBA- Probably a pretty well run club, but then again some aging players- 9 out of 22 outfield players aged 29 or over suggests maybe problems down the line? Throw in an inexperienced Darren Moore and it's not the easiest job in the world...
• Wigan- Probably alright financially, but then again 16/17 accounts had parachute payments- no parachute payments now and who knows if they can keep Paul Cook?
• Cardiff and Huddersfield likely to come back down you'd think, don't know their finances exactly it's hard to say, Sunderland likely to come back up and Portsmouth- of those Sunderland and Cardiff likely to do best tbh. Some of those in the list will also go up or down from here.

So you talk about the League not being open after this year, but plenty of sides on here could have problems down the track in financial terms, or rebuilding of the squad or whatever- it could be more open than we think simply as a lot of those sides could be skint or having to have a firesale/rapid rebuild!

[bengalcub]

I'm actually confident we will beat last season's 11th place , 

We are not drawing to many games win or lose , too many draws only holds you back I'm even thinking we may sneak 6th .......

[ScottishRed]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree on a lot of that, though I'm still comfortable with the idea of changing shape every so often- hallmark of a good manager IMO, but not like we do.

1. Agreed- are we pressing, passing, counterattacking? Mix of the 3?
2. Agreed- the churn is far from helpful, thought so for 2 years- like you when there are big offers it is understandable and sometimes (mostly?) even absolutely necessary that we cash in.
3. Broadly agree, though vs Sheffield United it had the desired effect so once in a while etc. Continuity and  consistency all helps though so yeah, the more settled the better I think!
4. Yeah, not quite his skillset. @Davefevs mentioned the other day IIRC Lennie Lawrence a big help to Trollope at those jokers up the road- noticeable that when he left their fortunes left with him! Experienced DOF would help, should also add that a proper dedicated foreign scout in addition to Mervyn Day and the team would be no bad thing I think.
5. Think we want to reach the PL, but the flexibility aspect to the plan is somewhat lacking and over time of not already this will act as a constraint.

I absolutely agree, recruitment needs to be better- much better. Don't think it has been terrible, more hit and miss with quite a few players in between. However to progress we need it to be maybe 9/10 rather than the let's say between 5-6/10 than it is currently, and yeah as you say fantastic coaching, outstanding in fact- again think ours is alright, sometimes capable of great things, but an area that needs to be at least 9/10 instead of the current 6, 6.5.

@GasDestroyer As well as the point about inconsistency etc, thought about your other points. It's hard to say what the Championship will look like in the coming years- lot of clubs seem to be likely to be facing a financial crunch one way or the other, or just not big enough or rich enough to compete higher in the table even if well run so there are chances it could be more open by dint of lack of cash/bad chairmen decisions!

I was looking at the League earlier today and I give you- and rules MUST be enforced correctly and consistently for this to have a chance of working:

• Aston Villa- If they stay down this season, huge financial hole faced- think they may already be in one- that said Dean Smith can if Brentford is anything to go by, seem to build on a fairly low budget- and he may need to!
• Birmingham- Big financial hole and that overhang on paper should hinder them for a while.
• Blackburn- Fair play, Mowbray is doing a great job there without spending a huge amount- but how long can they keep it up- either on the pitch or off?
• Bolton- Can't see them troubling the top sides in years to come, can you? Their financial regs position maybe not so bad, but they just aren't terribly rich, overhang from being badly run in late 2000's, early 2010's.
• Brentford- One of the best models in the League in fairness- they should be capable of capitalising if they can just keep the player trading good for another year or 2, Dean Smith leaving may hinder them though.
• Derby- Maybe their position is better than I thought, they had an aging squad last year and apparently close to breaching financial limits, yet look at them now! Have they rebuilt brilliantly and in double quick time, or just kicked the can down the road I wonder?
• Hull- Actually a pretty good financial position which will help them in coming years- but their owners have no desire to invest, want out so lower midtable their ambitions atm I think.
• Ipswich- Not the worst financial position, but just seems a club going nowhere, Big rebuilding job for Lambert there, and lost so many goals over the summer- can't see a quick fix.
• Leeds- If there is a club with the means and wherewithal on paper to get back to PL and soon it's Leeds in many ways- yes no parachute payments but Bielsa, highest commercial revenue, Elland Road a fortress- and unlike others because of these facts, I wouldn't expect them to be in financial issues either- quite prudent in the transfer market, sold an academy product for £7m this summer for one, probably some other wheeling and dealing also!
• Middlesborough- Excellent financial position in some ways, yet if they don't go up this season it's final year of Parachute payments- they drop and things may look quite different if they don't go up next year at the latest. Gibson also seems to run them pretty well.
• Millwall- Probably alright financially, but nothing special or likely to be achieving anything special on the pitch, by dint of budget- still the New Den can be a fortress, but you wouldn't usually expect them to be challenging!
• Norwich- Usually quite well run, some reasonable but not outstanding wriggle-room due to a mix of Parachute Payments and profit on players- provided they don't go stupid, would think they should be contending at the top of this League a lot of the time.
• Nottingham Forest- Gambled this year! Will it pay off? On paper maybe, but if not could be a big problem for them next season, their £32.1m profit was actually a loss when adjusted properly as debt write offs don't count for FFP purposes.
• Preston- Usually a well run club, will do well often, will do badly sometimes but won't be tearing up the League.
• QPR- Unless they go up this year, their financial antics will catch up with them! Their parachute payments will be gone next year, which if my maths are broadly correct will knock about 50% off their income! Huge hole, again if rules enforced correctly then they will need to cut quite big further, certainly not be signing Rangel on a free, with loans for Cameron, Wells and Hemed!
• Reading- Last accounts showed a small loss or profit in their playoff season and that was WITH Parachute payments. Think they are already overspending but next year that final year of PP will be wiped off and they should have to cut back further- which will surely weaken them.
• Rotherham- Fine financially I expect, but they're Rotherham- just surviving would be a great feat for them!
• Sheffield United- Hard one. Think they have a good squad, probably not going bankrupt but some aging players so rebuilding of certain areas of the team something they need to look at.
• Sheffield Wednesday- How they haven't had to flog Bannan and Forestieri I do not know- lost £20m+ in 16/17, presumed to have lost similar last season and they've made some cutbacks but nowhere near enough.
• Stoke- 3 years of parachute payments should mean they won't go bust, but at the same time can't see Rowett necessarily taking them up- depends how ling contracts are too, but should be fine financially for a little while yet.
• Swansea- Fair play ti them. Big cutbacks already despite Year 1 of Parachute Payments, and trying to rebuild their old model. Tough decisions but feel it will stand them in good stead in the medium to long run.
• WBA- Probably a pretty well run club, but then again some aging players- 9 out of 22 outfield players aged 29 or over suggests maybe problems down the line? Throw in an inexperienced Darren Moore and it's not the easiest job in the world...
• Wigan- Probably alright financially, but then again 16/17 accounts had parachute payments- no parachute payments now and who knows if they can keep Paul Cook?
• Cardiff and Huddersfield likely to come back down you'd think, don't know their finances exactly it's hard to say, Sunderland likely to come back up and Portsmouth- of those Sunderland and Cardiff likely to do best tbh. Some of those in the list will also go up or down from here.

So you talk about the League not being open after this year, but plenty of sides on here could have problems down the track in financial terms, or rebuilding of the squad or whatever- it could be more open than we think simply as a lot of those sides could be skint or having to have a firesale/rapid rebuild!

Good work!

But as you say the rules MUST be enforced.

I , for one, have little faith that will happen.

All the talk of Brum  being in deep problems seems to have evaporated. I am sure they still have issues but if they keep going as there, will the FFL dock them 15 points?

Our will they strike a financial deal as reports suggest Man City and PSG did with Ueafa ?

Whilst a financial penalty can hurt, points deductions show real intent - will it happen, will someone challenge it in the courts? 

The deal QPR negotiated after a number of years does make me wonder......

[Son of Fred]

8 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Mr P , it’s not all about money and that is what so many on here believe it is.

Its about deciding about a style of play and sticking with it using the resources you can afford and COACHING and IMPROVING them - LJ would appear to think that whilst shopping in Sainsburys he is buying from Harrrods and not having to ‘cook’ them himself!

It is not that simple.

He has a ‘limited ‘ budget but he is not spending that on ingredients that he can make something that is better than the sum of the parts!

He is under no threat so the pressure to deliver is very different to 90% of the managers in this league.

#toocosy

 

 

Maybe he is just not a very good chef...or born from a line of medieval court poisoners.

 

[ChippenhamRed]

15 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

New players still bedding in, and other clubs have no new players?

If we don't beat Preston and Ipswich it will be a while before we win again, in fact LJ`s own record breaking winless streak could then be under threat.

This is not a tough league we could smash it if we had made better use of the transfer window, top six more likely to be bottom 6 if people don't wake the hell up soon, and finally SL and the board will not decide SL will.

What’s your day job? Motivational speaker?

[Guest]

On ‎06‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 07:28, ChippenhamRed said:

What’s your day job? Motivational speaker?

What`s yours; SL`s spokesman.......how dare anyone have opinions eh?

[reformed_red]

Basically we need a goalscorer.

(Adelukan??)

 

 

 

And a quality number 10.

(COD??)

 

 

 

And a quality RB.

(Moore??)

 

 

 

Paterson to be captain v Preston I reckon.