rainbow laces to be worn at Leeds

[JulieH]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Julie is too busy snooping around people’s profiles at six in the morning .....

Policing Priorities n all that 

Nope not me I am afraid

[JulieH]

1 hour ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

After reading the responses and being utterly appalled at the homophobic and transphobic responses to this thread, remembering you are responding to a trans fan as well

 @JulieH is there something that can be done regarding LGBT abuse from multiple posters within the realms of a forum that's supposed to support the football?  

Many thanks 

I have just got back home from Charlton.

let me read the comments and take advice over the next couple of days and I will be back in touch 

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, JulieH said:

Nope not me I am afraid

Oh Yes Julie 

Very much You , or , If not someone using your account

Later The same day , or evening that day you were on duty at Rovers v Barnet which was either the longest shift ever or were you on duty at 06.30 that morning ?

I have raised this before -

Are you on here in your role as A Police Officer , and acting properly under the appropriate law , or not ? 

 

Unfortunately , despite your protests and denial - this is a screenshot taken the following day 

Honesty ?

Integrity ?

 

 

[JulieH]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Oh Yes Julie 

Very much You , or , If not someone using your account

Later The same day , or evening that day you were on duty at Rovers v Barnet which was either the longest shift ever or were you on duty at 06.30 that morning ?

I have raised this before -

Are you on here in your role as A Police Officer , and acting properly under the appropriate law , or not ? 

 

I can assure you that I have not checked any profiles at 0630 hrs on the morning of the Barnet game .

i will speak to a mod and find out how this has happened because it genuinely isn’t me . 

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I can assure you that I have not checked any profiles at 0630 hrs on the morning of the Barnet game .

i will speak to a mod and find out how this has happened because it genuinely isn’t me . 

Sorry 

Simply the facts speak for themselves 

and I don’t believe you

The evidence is above

The Rovers v Barnet game was Weds night and the above screenshot is self explanatory

 

Integrity ?

Honesty ?

No

 

 

[JulieH]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Oh Yes Julie 

Very much You , or , If not someone using your account

Later The same day , or evening that day you were on duty at Rovers v Barnet which was either the longest shift ever or were you on duty at 06.30 that morning ?

I have raised this before -

Are you on here in your role as A Police Officer , and acting properly under the appropriate law , or not ? 

 

Unfortunately , despite your protests and denial - this is a screenshot taken the following day 

Honesty ?

Integrity ?

 

 

As stated I have not looked at your profile and I genuinely have no idea how this has happened! 

I will speak to a mod and update you once I have a reply 

I was still in bed asleep at 0715hrs that day !!

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, JulieH said:

As stated I have not looked at your profile and I genuinely have no idea how this has happened! 

I will speak to a mod and update you once I have a reply 

I was still in bed asleep at 0715hrs that day !!

Funny enough , this is exactly what you claimed last time 

Not good and not impressed at all

[Maesknoll Red]

Might have to get @TomF to look at this, I have checked the logs and the devices that Julie logs in from weren’t logged in at that time, but I am no way an expert in interpreting this data, Tom will be able to clarify with more confidence than I can.

[Slacker]

Why the name change from Tomarse to TomF,Tom?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Slacker said:

Why the name change from Tomarse to TomF,Tom?

Fancied a name change. I started with that name when I was 18 and when you’re now on the door of 40 kinda sometimes feel like I should be more responsible. Maybe. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Might have to get @TomF to look at this, I have checked the logs and the devices that Julie logs in from weren’t logged in at that time, but I am no way an expert in interpreting this data, Tom will be able to clarify with more confidence than I can.

I’ll have a look later - it’s entirely possible the system just runs profile view updates every 12 hours. Can’t really remember on 4 hours sleep and 3 poos in the night - sorry using the Matty Taylor card atm 

[Slacker]

10 minutes ago, TomF said:

Fancied a name change. I started with that name when I was 18 and when you’re now on the door of 40 kinda sometimes feel like I should be more responsible. Maybe. 

Fairly does mate.Hope you don't mind me asking. I will just have try and get used to it.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Slacker said:

Fairly does mate.Hope you don't mind me asking. I will just have try and get used to it.

No it’s fine - to be fair when I started working at Clik back in 2004 I had changed it to TomF but then after the club stopped funding the forum it I think I changed it back a few years later.  As Geoff has now retired I am the only representive of Clik on here (well in an official capacity anyway) so feel I should be a bit more formal at least in my name anyway

[Mr Popodopolous]

For sake of clarity, it is/was a EFL supported/led campaign.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/11554242/premier-league-and-efl-clubs-support-rainbow-laces-with-rainbow-coloured-substitution-boards-and-corner-flags

Quick search indicates we wore it last year v Boro in December- must be an annual thing or something.

[EnderMB]

If there are any fans out there that wonder why initiatives/events like these are necessary for supporting the LGBT community, this thread is a prime example of the ignorance in the general public - especially in the older generations.

The common question on here seems to come from the need for "identity politics" in a sport that largely tries to keep itself away from identities. In my opinion, the biggest reason why this is needed in the sport is because of the simple fact that around 2-4% of the population identify as LGBT, yet in English football there are ZERO players who are openly gay or bisexual. Considering there are 92 teams in professional football, and each team probably has around 25 players at least, that would mean out of a population of 2300 players there should be at least a few dozen players who may be gay or bi. Let's half this number due to the fact that many players in our top leagues are from other countries, which may have cultural or legal differences around homosexuality and may never wish to come out, and we're still looking at a handful of English players that would identify as gay or bi.

So there is a strong argument that there are at least a handful of gay/bi players in the game. This is where identify politics is useful, because it provides an identity and a voice for a marginalised section of society that may feel they lack a combined voice. If there is a minority group that definitely needs support in the game, it is the LGBT community, because they have no representation.

I think many people on here don't like to label people because football should exist without labels. While I do agree in a sense, the most important point I can raise is that the vast majority of people on here are in the majority. They are white, probably British, probably straight, and belong to the majority of fans. As someone in the majority, it's impossible to picture what life must be like as a minority, because you have never had to life with the prejudice that comes with their role in life. That goes for race, religion, gender, and sexuality. It's rich for a white person to say "stop with the labels" when for many people in minorities the labels the level of protection that they may require to attend matches, play football, and become a part of football. 

Ultimately, LGBT people aren't going to ask for the moon. They want equal representation in football to be able to express themselves as LGBT without fear of hate, and expressing themselves is nothing more than being able to say "I'm gay" or "I'm trans" and not have fans recoil in horror, or for a player to be able to come out at LGBT and not have a torrent of abuse thrown at them, in the same way that people won't throw abuse at a player for being black.

Unlike some other people, I don't think people on here are necessary homophobic/transphobic, and quite frankly, I think the SJW approach of "everything is offensive" is likely to drive people away from their beliefs over anything else. I think there is just a lack of empathy for people in marginalised positions in football, and something as simple as football clubs coming together to make a small concession in saying "we support all LGBT people at this club" would go far towards bringing more fans to the club, and having a happier sport.

[CHIPLEY RED]

I don't know if anyone else has commented or even noticed this on Saturday but I found it very ironic.

After the Raindow flag and pitch presentation in support of LGBT by Leeds I couldn't help thinking how little the fans actually thought about these issues when the "Get your T**S out for the lads" song was sung at one or more City fans.

In other words we support LGBT but will pick on and abuse women.

I couldn't see the women (I assume they were women) this was aimed at but i'm glad it wasn't my 23 tear old daughter who was stood next to me.

[Eddie Hitler]

45 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I don't know if anyone else has commented or even noticed this on Saturday but I found it very ironic.

After the Raindow flag and pitch presentation in support of LGBT by Leeds I couldn't help thinking how little the fans actually thought about these issues when the "Get your T**S out for the lads" song was sung at one or more City fans.

In other words we support LGBT but will pick on and abuse women.

I couldn't see the women (I assume they were women) this was aimed at but i'm glad it wasn't my 23 tear old daughter who was stood next to me.

Putting aside my disagreement with @RalphMilnesLeftFoot these campaigns are a waste of time.

It allows the FA / EFL / Premiership to claim to be doing something when they're not.  After years of "Kick Racism out of Football" it became obvious to black players that whatever may be being said nothing was being done and following a series of unpunished or slap on the wrist punishments for on field racial incidents (Suarez, Terry and the crowd chanting at Danny Rose in an England game) they boycotted the campaign refusing to wear the KRooF t-shirts because it was a tick box gesture that was actually enabling the FA / EFL / Premiership to not address the issues by pointing to the t-shirts as their "doing something".  For the black players the campaign was actually counter-productive.

If any professional player decided to come out as gay tomorrow does anybody seriously think that players being told by the EFL to wear rainbow laces would either encourage him to come out or reduce the abuse he would get from sections of the crowd for doing so?

No, me neither. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

54 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Putting aside my disagreement with @RalphMilnesLeftFoot these campaigns are a waste of time.

It allows the FA / EFL / Premiership to claim to be doing something when they're not.  After years of "Kick Racism out of Football" it became obvious to black players that whatever may be being said nothing was being done and following a series of unpunished or slap on the wrist punishments for on field racial incidents (Suarez, Terry and the crowd chanting at Danny Rose in an England game) they boycotted the campaign refusing to wear the KRooF t-shirts because it was a tick box gesture that was actually enabling the FA / EFL / Premiership to not address the issues by pointing to the t-shirts as their "doing something".  For the black players the campaign was actually counter-productive.

If any professional player decided to come out as gay tomorrow does anybody seriously think that players being told by the EFL to wear rainbow laces would either encourage him to come out or reduce the abuse he would get from sections of the crowd for doing so?

No, me neither. 

 

On that note, the Governing bodies do have powers for abusive, as in sustained and persistently abusive- well no abusive chanting is part of football, perhaps sustained discriminatory chanting would be a better word legally.

Anyway, they have various  powers- but I don't recall them ever using them. UEFA have been quite hot on it at times, but our own FA. EFL, PL etc barely at all. UEFA can and have ordered games behind closed doors in recent times in Europe for it though.

[SR1]

1 hour ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I don't know if anyone else has commented or even noticed this on Saturday but I found it very ironic.

After the Raindow flag and pitch presentation in support of LGBT by Leeds I couldn't help thinking how little the fans actually thought about these issues when the "Get your T**S out for the lads" song was sung at one or more City fans.

In other words we support LGBT but will pick on and abuse women.

I couldn't see the women (I assume they were women) this was aimed at but i'm glad it wasn't my 23 tear old daughter who was stood next to me.

It was probably addressed to the more, err, portly, section of our own fans who are just starting out on trainer bras.

Beers does some funny things to the vision.

 

[Pezo]

8 hours ago, EnderMB said:

If there are any fans out there that wonder why initiatives/events like these are necessary for supporting the LGBT community, this thread is a prime example of the ignorance in the general public - especially in the older generations.

The common question on here seems to come from the need for "identity politics" in a sport that largely tries to keep itself away from identities. In my opinion, the biggest reason why this is needed in the sport is because of the simple fact that around 2-4% of the population identify as LGBT, yet in English football there are ZERO players who are openly gay or bisexual. Considering there are 92 teams in professional football, and each team probably has around 25 players at least, that would mean out of a population of 2300 players there should be at least a few dozen players who may be gay or bi. Let's half this number due to the fact that many players in our top leagues are from other countries, which may have cultural or legal differences around homosexuality and may never wish to come out, and we're still looking at a handful of English players that would identify as gay or bi.

So there is a strong argument that there are at least a handful of gay/bi players in the game. This is where identify politics is useful, because it provides an identity and a voice for a marginalised section of society that may feel they lack a combined voice. If there is a minority group that definitely needs support in the game, it is the LGBT community, because they have no representation.

I think many people on here don't like to label people because football should exist without labels. While I do agree in a sense, the most important point I can raise is that the vast majority of people on here are in the majority. They are white, probably British, probably straight, and belong to the majority of fans. As someone in the majority, it's impossible to picture what life must be like as a minority, because you have never had to life with the prejudice that comes with their role in life. That goes for race, religion, gender, and sexuality. It's rich for a white person to say "stop with the labels" when for many people in minorities the labels the level of protection that they may require to attend matches, play football, and become a part of football. 

Ultimately, LGBT people aren't going to ask for the moon. They want equal representation in football to be able to express themselves as LGBT without fear of hate, and expressing themselves is nothing more than being able to say "I'm gay" or "I'm trans" and not have fans recoil in horror, or for a player to be able to come out at LGBT and not have a torrent of abuse thrown at them, in the same way that people won't throw abuse at a player for being black.

Unlike some other people, I don't think people on here are necessary homophobic/transphobic, and quite frankly, I think the SJW approach of "everything is offensive" is likely to drive people away from their beliefs over anything else. I think there is just a lack of empathy for people in marginalised positions in football, and something as simple as football clubs coming together to make a small concession in saying "we support all LGBT people at this club" would go far towards bringing more fans to the club, and having a happier sport.

Openly gay or bisexual with whom? their family, their team mates or the entire world. 

I judge a footballer for the ability they show on a pitch and sexualty doesn't come into it because to me that is a private matter and it's up to them who they come out to. Its like when you see a tabloid headline say someone had a "secret affair" - no it is a "private affair" and usually nothing but nonsense gossip.

[IAmNick]

6 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Putting aside my disagreement with @RalphMilnesLeftFoot these campaigns are a waste of time.

It allows the FA / EFL / Premiership to claim to be doing something when they're not.  After years of "Kick Racism out of Football" it became obvious to black players that whatever may be being said nothing was being done and following a series of unpunished or slap on the wrist punishments for on field racial incidents (Suarez, Terry and the crowd chanting at Danny Rose in an England game) they boycotted the campaign refusing to wear the KRooF t-shirts because it was a tick box gesture that was actually enabling the FA / EFL / Premiership to not address the issues by pointing to the t-shirts as their "doing something".  For the black players the campaign was actually counter-productive.

If any professional player decided to come out as gay tomorrow does anybody seriously think that players being told by the EFL to wear rainbow laces would either encourage him to come out or reduce the abuse he would get from sections of the crowd for doing so?

No, me neither. 

 

So, with all that said, why do you think that incidents of racism are so markedly fewer today compared to even say 30 years ago?

If a player wears rainbow laces, why does it matter to you? You seem aggravated at some pretty small gesture - the colour of someones shoelaces. Why do you even care if people want to do it?

I don't know whether rainbow laces will encourage someone to come out or feel more accepted, but showing support can't do any harm, right? So what's the issue?

43 minutes ago, Pezo said:

Openly gay or bisexual with whom? their family, their team mates or the entire world. 

I judge a footballer for the ability they show on a pitch and sexualty doesn't come into it because to me that is a private matter and it's up to them who they come out to. Its like when you see a tabloid headline say someone had a "secret affair" - no it is a "private affair" and usually nothing but nonsense gossip.

That's great and I agree, but you must accept it is odd given how reported on players lives are that that's the case though?

[Eddie Hitler]

13 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

So, with all that said, why do you think that incidents of racism are so markedly fewer today compared to even say 30 years ago?

If a player wears rainbow laces, why does it matter to you? You seem aggravated at some pretty small gesture - the colour of someones shoelaces. Why do you even care if people want to do it?

I don't know whether rainbow laces will encourage someone to come out or feel more accepted, but showing support can't do any harm, right? So what's the issue?

 

The decline in racism in football has nothing to do with the FA campaign and, as black footballers themselves said, it did do harm because the empty virtue signalling was taken as an excuse to not crack down upon on field incidents of actual racism.

I see no difference with this rainbow laces nonsense; it is entirely pointless and may even be harmful because it gives the FA / EFL / Premiership a cop out about doing anything about actual homophobic abuse because they can point to the rainbow laces.

Big effing deal.

And it is not "people want to do it"; they are told to do so.

[Pezo]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

So, with all that said, why do you think that incidents of racism are so markedly fewer today compared to even say 30 years ago?

If a player wears rainbow laces, why does it matter to you? You seem aggravated at some pretty small gesture - the colour of someones shoelaces. Why do you even care if people want to do it?

I don't know whether rainbow laces will encourage someone to come out or feel more accepted, but showing support can't do any harm, right? So what's the issue?

That's great and I agree, but you must accept it is odd given how reported on players lives are that that's the case though?

Not really, some players are really heavily reported on but most are not. Looking at your numbers and the amount of players that have their personal lives reported on I don't think it's that likely. How many footballers can you name their wife's or partners? I can probably name 2 and they are both retired, even if it's as high as 20/25 your numbers doesn't even come close to a percentage where it may be reported on.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Posted about it earlier but will expand on it.

There is the power to (on paper) in extremis- I'm talking if it was week in week out after all had failed- to close sections of grounds for a period of time where hypothetical racist chanting takes place.

Before that they would try PA system warnings, education many many methods, perhaps fine of the club as well as arresting/banning ring leaders of racist abuse- so yes there are powers in extremis.

In theory, you could apply it to this campaign- mixture of carrot and stick if homophobia in football became a major thing.

Last point, UEFA on racism last few years.

Off top of head:

1) Croatia game v us behind closed doors recently- that was from a historic offence all the way back in June 2015.

2) CSKA Moscow game- another good example.

Quite sure there are others also.

Carrot and stick, a balanced approach usually the best.

[spudski]

10 hours ago, EnderMB said:

If there are any fans out there that wonder why initiatives/events like these are necessary for supporting the LGBT community, this thread is a prime example of the ignorance in the general public - especially in the older generations.

The common question on here seems to come from the need for "identity politics" in a sport that largely tries to keep itself away from identities. In my opinion, the biggest reason why this is needed in the sport is because of the simple fact that around 2-4% of the population identify as LGBT, yet in English football there are ZERO players who are openly gay or bisexual. Considering there are 92 teams in professional football, and each team probably has around 25 players at least, that would mean out of a population of 2300 players there should be at least a few dozen players who may be gay or bi. Let's half this number due to the fact that many players in our top leagues are from other countries, which may have cultural or legal differences around homosexuality and may never wish to come out, and we're still looking at a handful of English players that would identify as gay or bi.

So there is a strong argument that there are at least a handful of gay/bi players in the game. This is where identify politics is useful, because it provides an identity and a voice for a marginalised section of society that may feel they lack a combined voice. If there is a minority group that definitely needs support in the game, it is the LGBT community, because they have no representation.

I think many people on here don't like to label people because football should exist without labels. While I do agree in a sense, the most important point I can raise is that the vast majority of people on here are in the majority. They are white, probably British, probably straight, and belong to the majority of fans. As someone in the majority, it's impossible to picture what life must be like as a minority, because you have never had to life with the prejudice that comes with their role in life. That goes for race, religion, gender, and sexuality. It's rich for a white person to say "stop with the labels" when for many people in minorities the labels the level of protection that they may require to attend matches, play football, and become a part of football. 

Ultimately, LGBT people aren't going to ask for the moon. They want equal representation in football to be able to express themselves as LGBT without fear of hate, and expressing themselves is nothing more than being able to say "I'm gay" or "I'm trans" and not have fans recoil in horror, or for a player to be able to come out at LGBT and not have a torrent of abuse thrown at them, in the same way that people won't throw abuse at a player for being black.

Unlike some other people, I don't think people on here are necessary homophobic/transphobic, and quite frankly, I think the SJW approach of "everything is offensive" is likely to drive people away from their beliefs over anything else. I think there is just a lack of empathy for people in marginalised positions in football, and something as simple as football clubs coming together to make a small concession in saying "we support all LGBT people at this club" would go far towards bringing more fans to the club, and having a happier sport.

Football Clubs may come together and support it...however...the general public attend football matches.

Football fans are no different to the general public...because they are one and the same thing.

As we know...not everyone in the general public will want to agree with the sentiment. That is their prerogative, whether people like it or not.

There are laws in place across the land, to protect everyone. If those are broken...inside a ground or outside, the law will take action. The Club may choose to ban.

However...outside of those laws...people are entitled to their own thoughts and opinions. If some of the population don't like it...then it's up to them. They just have to keep their thoughts to themselves.

It's almost a role reversal...where say homosexuals kept quiet...now public that don't agree or like it, have to keep quiet.

It's freedom of speech and thought.

As long as the public don't break the written laws, they are entitled to their opinion.

You are not going to make everyone agree...it's impossible.

For example...Certain Religious groups don't agree with homosexuality. You can't make them change their views. The law also protects their views. As long as they don't preach hatred and such like.

I actually wish any player that is part of the LGBGT community came out. If they got abuse...make sure those fans are banned. Good riddance.

Like I said...you won't get rid of hatred...because it exists in the world. And football Clubs and the fans are part of the world.

Football is also a massively multi cultural sport.

What is believed and pushed in this Country is also despised in others. It is what it is.

Players from other countries representing British Clubs, come from cultures that are massively different to us.

Some despise the LBGT community and what it stands for...some are racist, some and the majority of the world think nothing of marrying or sleeping with minors. Beastiality is common in south America and the Africas....etc, etc, etc.

What we desire as a population in this Country dictated to by the Government, will be hard to govern and to get people to 100% agree...because we have encouraged a multi cultural society...where those cultures differ massively to ours.

So it's a no win situation.

It's like pissing into the wind and not expecting to get wet.

[soultrader]

On 23/11/2018 at 11:39, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think we're in danger of saying that at all. To be honest, I think you are reading a lot into it that isn't really there. FWIW, I'd support any initiative the club did to get more women, Jewish people, Sikhs, Muslims or anyone else to Ashton Gate for the obvious reason that I want us to sell out every home game but I don't really think having a day that particularly welcomes one group of people implies that we don't welcome other groups of people too. It's not a competition. 

Maybe it should be?

 

Minority Olympics.

Whoever wins is the group that is celebrated at Ashton Gate.  Because they have proven to be the best

[Bar BS3]

Are we expecting loads of big hairy  blokes in mini skirts & crop tops, at the Millwall game now..? Now that they know that the footballing world is ready to embrace them and make them feel welcome..?

Just to avoid confusion, which toilet should they use..?

[AshtonGreat]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but what about the players who will be abused for being Welsh, ginger, lanky, crap (or, God forbid, all of those things)? Who protects them?

[Eddie Hitler]

29 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Are we expecting loads of big hairy  blokes in mini skirts & crop tops, at the Millwall game now..? Now that they know that the footballing world is ready to embrace them and make them feel welcome..?

Just to avoid confusion, which toilet should they use..?

The trans bloke at work, because he isn't a placard waving jumping up and down type but rather wishes to be left to get on with it without any fuss, uses the disabled toilet so as not to make either the men or the women feel awkward.

Reasonable people come up with reasonable solutions.

[Bar BS3]

25 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

The trans bloke at work, because he isn't a placard waving jumping up and down type but rather wishes to be left to get on with it without any fuss, uses the disabled toilet so as not to make either the men or the women feel awkward.

Reasonable people come up with reasonable solutions.

But he's not disabled. Selfish git..!