steviestevieneville Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Correct....seen Downing at St George’s was about it. So as spudski intimated . Even though it took nearly two months . It was all rushed towards the end . We obviously don’t know for sure , but it does point that way. MA interview Hughton interview cook , there were more evidently. none of them want the job steve why not mark well it’s down to you and me meddling too much thinking we know about football . well I’m good on fifa , bollocks get deano to do it . what fifa you got steve ? 2014 mark I’ll get some players names over to you sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, chinapig said: My reading of Kid's reply is: Did he apply? Yes. Did he apply immediately (i.e. a question of timing)? I understand he did. Both indicating he was not "invited" to apply at some later point in other words but did so of his own accord at the outset. They don't seem to be contradictory. "He did apply" and then "I understand he applied" are contradictory in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidre Monita Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: To me, what I think happened was this: - Board sacked LJ - right decision at the time, ran out of rope - Expectation at the time of sacking was that 20/21 would be more “normal”. Holden asked to take charge on temporary basis, and view to appoint proper manager in summer - Summer comes. Covid still here. Finances not normal. Holden asked to take charge permanently, but one year contract gives a get out I think, had the club known that Covid would have restrictions now, they wouldn’t have sacked Johnson. Holden was intended as a stop gap to normality, and that normality has taken longer than envisaged. If they’d known Covid restrictions would be ongoing until end 2021 season, they’d have not rolled the dice. Thats what the six weeks was. They only appointed Holden when they knew Covid would keep going. I don’t think he applied because he wouldn’t have been given the job under normal circumstances. I do question what happened with Jamie Mac, but that’s another topic. With respect, you are inventing an explanation , using covid, that is simply not true. Maybe trying to explain the unexplainable, but covid was not the reason Holden was appointed. I know that makes it harder to comprehend why they did it, but Covid has no bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidre Monita Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, BigTone said: There are so many ITK's that any credibility starts to wane. Some even state to be "substantially ITK". It really does have the opposite effect on any credibility. It seems that many want us to think they know the in and outs of all when the actual fact is that they don't. Problem is they are more than likely way off beam with regards to the truth. The only ITK worth having , are those related to the owner. There is no one on OTIB that has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, BigTone said: "He did apply" and then "I understand he applied" are contradictory in my mind. The distinction is between whether he applied and when he applied (immediately or later). Kid can speak for himself of course but he seems to be debunking a suggestion some have made that he was invited to apply because the club intended to give him the job anyway. The kind of conspiracy thinking you (and I) dislike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Psychopomp said: With respect, you are inventing an explanation , using covid, that is simply not true. Maybe trying to explain the unexplainable, but covid was not the reason Holden was appointed. I know that makes it harder to comprehend why they did it, but Covid has no bearing. Ok buddy - if it’s “simply not true”, then what is true? I’m trying to explain the unfathomable, so if you’re adamant I’m wrong, what is it you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidre Monita Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, spudski said: It's something I've been saying for years. The pool of managers that would work under our remit, with the expectation of top 6 is minimal. Because as experienced managers they'd know it was nigh on impossible. It was not a pool, it was a puddle. Of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Psychopomp said: It was not a pool, it was a puddle. Of one. So my instinct is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidre Monita Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said: Ok buddy - if it’s “simply not true”, the what is true? I’m trying to explain the unfathomable, so if you’re adamant I’m wrong, what is it you know? I just told you. If you wish to invent Covid as the reason Holden was chosen, that is your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Psychopomp said: The only ITK worth having , are those related to the owner. There is no one on OTIB that has that. Many on here think otherwise which is where I have a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Psychopomp said: With respect, you are inventing an explanation , using covid, that is simply not true. Maybe trying to explain the unexplainable, but covid was not the reason Holden was appointed. I know that makes it harder to comprehend why they did it, but Covid has no bearing. Bit harsh. It is a perfectly possible explanation, with some evidence to support it. 6 minutes ago, Psychopomp said: The only ITK worth having , are those related to the owner. There is no one on OTIB that has that. Both Maggie and Jon are members of this forum. The floor is theirs, if they wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 Does it matter if he was invited or not? The culprit either way is clear. What we know for sure is that mark ashton decided, after a long thorough recruitment process, that Dean Holden, a candidate without any leadership experience, without senior head coaching experience or track record of any achievement in any similar role at any level, a man whose highest level had been as assistant to the failed LJ, was the best person to take the squad forward. Now I admit I am an idiot with zero football intelligence, and I have confessed that I was impressed (after my initial horror at the announcement) with DH's opening few weeks. But I am not responsible for the success of the club and Mark ashton is and if he had any decency he would resign now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidre Monita Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Kid in the Riot said: Bit harsh. It is a perfectly possible explanation, with some evidence to support it. Both Maggie and Jon are members of this forum. The floor is theirs, if they wish... If you think, in the middle of Covid, we fired LJ , went through a charade of interviewing people , then decided, as if we had a big awakening that due to Covid , that we needed to employ Holden to take us to the Prem, then that is interesting as a viewpoint. It is not true. It had to do with other factors that you of all people know and understand better than anyone. Jon and Maggie will not post anything of note on here as you , again, of all people would also know. They may note, but also disregard what they read. It is possible Steve, Jon, Maggie are out of any comfort zone, and simply do not know what to right now. What they had hoped would work, has over 4 years unravelled and simply failed. Putting that right has nothing to do with covid, that is the same for all clubs, it has to do with having a vision and having the right people in place to deliver it. Covid has not hit Bristol City in isolation. Anyway , how is it going at Sunderland ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Psychopomp said: I just told you. If you wish to invent Covid as the reason Holden was chosen, that is your choice. I tend to agree, covid had nothing to do with it. If it was then why get rid of Johnson . Lansdown knew fans weren’t coming back anytime soon , so why sack him? He sacked him imo because there were one too many references in his post match interviews to selling our best players . Some people dismiss his interview with Jim white . However , it was recorded , not live so he wasn’t under pressure on national radio to say what he did. It was passionate .” We want to get to the next level ,we want a breath of fresh air “ interviews with Chris Hughton Chris Hughton saying through the press he wanted the job a seemingly big media push to get Steven Gerrard paul cook interviewed then nothing, radio silence . None of these men will seemingly work under the constraints he puts in place . He isn’t humble enough to accept perhaps he’s been wrong on a football level all these years . panic sets in , appoints Holden then two random coaches but have England links within a few days. then the lies from Ashton about the coaches having big influences in them achieving promotion to the top flight. enjoyed that . I feel like columbo now theres just one more thing .................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Psychopomp said: If you think, in the middle of Covid, we fired LJ , went through a charade of interviewing people , then decided, as if we had a big awakening that due to Covid , that we needed to employ Holden to take us to the Prem, then that is interesting as a viewpoint. It is not true. It had to do with other factors that you of all people know and understand better than anyone. Jon and Maggie will not post anything of note on here as you , again, of all people would also know. They may note, but also disregard what they read. It is possible Steve, Jon, Maggie are out of any comfort zone, and simply do not know what to right now. What they had hoped would work, has over 4 years unravelled and simply failed. Putting that right has nothing to do with covid, that is the same for all clubs, it has to do with having a vision and having the right people in place to deliver it. Covid has not hit Bristol City in isolation. Anyway , how is it going at Sunderland ? No, you have misunderstood the theory. The theory is that Holden was appointed for a season, and likely one season only, as the world readjusts in light of covid. The football landscape is completely different to what it was a year ago, that is undeniable. Look at transfer activity, for example. Look at club finances over the next few years. A reckoning is coming, absolutely no doubt about it. Taking stock whilst this happens would be an understandable short-term plan, particularly this 8 month period until supporters are allowed back in stadiums in August (hopefully). I'm not saying it's a strategy I agree with, but it is a possibility. And with respect, knowing who you are, and the "frequency" of your relationship with the Lansdown's, you are not in a position to say that it is not the case. It could be. Holden could be a stop-gap. Frankly, in any event, it's looking like he will be exactly that, as two or three more poor performances and I believe he will be sacrificed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 I feel that any recruitment decision taken in the midst of an unprecedented global pandemic, let alone one that involes multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds in wages is, more than likely, to at least be coloured by said pandemic. Would it not be negligent to proceed on such a significant decision making process without taking into account the wider & exceptional economic circumstances of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said: I feel that any recruitment decision taken in the midst of an unprecedented global pandemic, let alone one that involes multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds in wages is, more than likely, to at least be coloured by said pandemic. Would it not be negligent to proceed on such a significant decision making process without taking into account the wider & exceptional economic circumstances of the day? Correct, and this has been borne out in Steve's business decisions regarding, for example, selling another ton of H&L shares. Absurd to suggest it wouldn't be at the very least a consideration. I'd imagine Holden made sense to Steve on many levels. But it was a tragic, and potentially disastrous appointment. He does have the opportunity to undo it this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziderarmy Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Correct, and this has been borne out in Steve's business decisions regarding, for example, selling another ton of H&L shares. Absurd to suggest it wouldn't be at the very least a consideration. I'd imagine Holden made sense to Steve on many levels. But it was a tragic, and potentially disastrous appointment. He does have the opportunity to undo it this summer. @Kid in the Riot Out of interest, was it Jamie Mac who was feeding you the inside info. You appear to have lost this ability since he was sacked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, ziderheadarmy said: @Kid in the Riot Out of interest, was it Jamie Mac who was feeding you the inside info. You appear to have lost this ability since he was sacked? Nope, he wasn't feeding me anything. The majority of information I receive is from sources in the media, and through my line of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Kid in the Riot said: Nope, he wasn't feeding me anything. The majority of information I receive is from sources in the media, and through my line of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Correct, and this has been borne out in Steve's business decisions regarding, for example, selling another ton of H&L shares. Absurd to suggest it wouldn't be at the very least a consideration. I'd imagine Holden made sense to Steve on many levels. But it was a tragic, and potentially disastrous appointment. He does have the opportunity to undo it this summer. I get what you’re saying re covid but employing a rookie is one hell of a gamble, after all the actual game and necessities for managing a championship football team hasn’t itself changed due to the pandemic. One year might not seem a long time in the scheme of things but in reality it is and could be catastrophic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 29 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: No, you have misunderstood the theory. The theory is that Holden was appointed for a season, and likely one season only, as the world readjusts in light of covid. The football landscape is completely different to what it was a year ago, that is undeniable. Look at transfer activity, for example. Look at club finances over the next few years. A reckoning is coming, absolutely no doubt about it. Taking stock whilst this happens would be an understandable short-term plan, particularly this 8 month period until supporters are allowed back in stadiums in August (hopefully). I'm not saying it's a strategy I agree with, but it is a possibility. And with respect, knowing who you are, and the "frequency" of your relationship with the Lansdown's, you are not in a position to say that it is not the case. It could be. Holden could be a stop-gap. Frankly, in any event, it's looking like he will be exactly that, as two or three more poor performances and I believe he will be sacrificed. I agreed with you the other day that Holden was possibly a stop gap , and I know it’s just a theory. I do now think it was just a panic appointment because everyone else turned them down due to how the football side is ran. If not, why sack LJ . Why hastily appoint two coaches that were pretty random appointments plus a assistant manager to head coach that needed a weekend to think about it . After nearly two months of nothing more than , incompetent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said: I agreed with you the other day that Holden was possibly a stop gap , and I know it’s just a theory. I do now think it was just a panic appointment because everyone else turned them down due to how the football side is ran. If not, why sack LJ . Why hastily appoint two coaches that were pretty random appointments plus a assistant manager to head coach that needed a weekend to think about it . After nearly two months of nothing more than , incompetent Chris Hughton didn't turn the job down though. That was purely the board's decision, to appoint Holden instead of him. It's reasonable to assume that the climate at the time was a consideration in making the appointment. Whether it was a decisive factor in the decision-making process? We might know more this summer on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 So reading between the lines. DH was considered the best candidate to run the team, still within our remit, but with consideration towards the financial problems brought about by covid. Yet the Club still put out the message that it expects improvement on our league position. Has any club in this division chosen so timidly yet set the bar so high? I get the impression that deep down the real intention is to just survive and tread water...but still keep up the facade of promotion. The comments from DH pre Watford about being excited about playing the teams in the next coming month, and the proposition of top 6 made me shudder. I thought...delusional...or corporate bull shit. Just wish this season had been cancelled. It's like a nightmare on top of a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 I may have made this up completely - but wasn’t DH asked in a post match interview when he was caretaker about whether he wanted the job full time and he said close to, if not, yes, he’d put his name in the hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said: I feel that any recruitment decision taken in the midst of an unprecedented global pandemic, let alone one that involes multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds in wages is, more than likely, to at least be coloured by said pandemic. Would it not be negligent to proceed on such a significant decision making process without taking into account the wider & exceptional economic circumstances of the day? But covid had already hit before LJ was sacked. So as we weren't going down with LJ at the helm why not just ride it out with him (better the devil you know), rather than paying him off AND appointing Holden? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said: It's the lesser spotted Jon Lansdown Seldon seen, usually identified by its um, um, um call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Chris Hughton didn't turn the job down though. That was purely the board's decision, to appoint Holden instead of him. It's reasonable to assume that the climate at the time was a consideration in making the appointment. Whether it was a decisive factor in the decision-making process? We might know more this summer on that. Ok , I’m not doubting you know a lot more than I do . so saying he was willing to take the job . Why would they turn him down ? He comes across as a decent bloke , but to play & manage at the level he has . He obviously doesn’t suffer fool & is pretty hard nosed behind the scenes did they think he’d Rock the boat too much ? Otherwise I’m just coming to the conclusion they’re completely incompetent . Which , even though I think SL doesn’t know his football is very insulting to a self made billionaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Psychopomp said: The only ITK worth having , are those related to the owner. There is no one on OTIB that has that. I wouldn’t be so sure on that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.